Define programmer. I'm a journalist by career, but I had to learn basic code to run this joint. Does that count?Dirty Dog said:I'm almost certain there's at least a couple, seeing as this forum seems to be crowded with intelligent adults.
If I'm the only one, that just sucks 'cause that means I must be a mechanerd. D:
Not exactly what I meant, but at least you know basic stuff.Walter said:Define programmer. I'm a journalist by career, but I had to learn basic code to run this joint. Does that count?
It's a headache for me when I'm learning something new. You seem intelligent, I think if you had stuck with it you'd find it easy enough. But yeah, programming languages don't like errors.If so, I don't know how you guys do it... Coding has always been a huge headache to me. My personality just really isn't suited for it. Most programming languages have so little room for error and creative input. Follow the rules! Stay within the lines! That APOSTROPHE DOESN'T GO THERRORERRORERRORERRORERROR.33333333333333333
I learned PHP and HTML through trial and error myself. Had to create a webpage for this personal project I ended up abandoning.Admittedly, I learned PHP, HTML and some java by piecemeal implementation, and not from the ground up. So most of my knowledge is from trial and error.
Well, I understand there have to be rules, but my qualm is when something is coded "perfectly" but has a misplaced , where it should be a ,; or some bullshit, and it won't operate at all ... it's just pretty frustrating for a novice like myself. In the English language however, if you misplace a comma or an apostrophe, you' may be regarded as one of the uneducated masses, but people will still UNDERSTAND what you're writing, generally speaking.Majin Tenshi said:No creativity in programing? You're just not looking in the right places. Sure programming isn't very forgiving of syntactical errors (the flash "compiler" I used wasn't and I couldn't stand it) but thats like saying English isn't forgiving of how you draw your letters.
Well, I've never touched PHP so I can't say... HTML probably doesn't tell you when you've got errors much since its scripting, but anything that compiles should tell you most of the time when theres a syntax error and at least what line its on. That should take care of the outright not working problem usually. Theres still the occasional error like:Walter said:Well, I understand there have to be rules, but my qualm is when something is coded "perfectly" but has a misplaced , where it should be a ,; or some bullshit, and it won't operate at all ... it's just pretty frustrating for a novice like myself. In the English language however, if you misplace a comma or an apostrophe, you' may be regarded as one of the uneducated masses, but people will still UNDERSTAND what you're writing, generally speaking.
Walter said:Well, I understand there have to be rules, but my qualm is when something is coded "perfectly" but has a misplaced , where it should be a ,; or some bullshit, and it won't operate at all ... it's just pretty frustrating for a novice like myself. In the English language however, if you misplace a comma or an apostrophe, you' may be regarded as one of the uneducated masses, but people will still UNDERSTAND what you're writing, generally speaking.
Walter said:My first, and likely LAST PHP project coded entirely by myself (I've "borrowed" code from other SMF forums to make ours look spiffy):
http://www.skullknight.net/roster/
This thing's a mess. You should see the code. But hey, it works! Maybe I should post portions of it here so you pros can debunk it
... please?
Warning: mysql_num_rows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource in /home/walter/public_html/encyclopedia/appendix/roster.php on line 146
Warning: mysql_fetch_array(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource in /home/walter/public_html/encyclopedia/appendix/roster.php on line 151
Well, feel free to post it I guess, or maybe just PM it to someone.Walter said:Well, that's if you don't select any boxes at all and are going out of your way to point out my script's glaring flaws ...
Re: Any other programmers here? by Dirty Dog (Shootin' the Breeze) Today at 09:06:37 PM
Re: Any other programmers here? by Walter (Shootin' the Breeze) Today at 08:52:07 PM
Re: Any other programmers here? by Dirty Dog (Shootin' the Breeze) Today at 08:27:40 PM
Re: Any other programmers here? by Walter (Shootin' the Breeze) Today at 08:03:35 PM
Re: Any other programmers here? by Dirty Dog (Shootin' the Breeze) Today at 07:56:21 PM
I'll grab some of the code and post it here later tonight when I get off work. The broken images just need to be updated, since I changed several image locations during the server change. Easily remedied, but thanks for bringing it to my attention.Dirty Dog said:Well, feel free to post it I guess, or maybe just PM it to someone.
btw, the images at the top of the result page are dead links to me.
Yeah, well, you and me anywayanyway, seems I've finally made a topic people wanna post on
Alright, I'll probably be going for a nice midnight walk soon.. summers are great for that.Walter said:I'll grab some of the code and post it here later tonight when I get off work. The broken images just need to be updated, since I changed several image locations during the server change. Easily remedied, but thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Serpico and Tenshi, too.Yeah, well, you and me anyway
Dirty Dog said:anyway, since it seems we've got 3 C-syntax programmers here, maybe we could do something. Maybe a 2d Berserk game for SK.net?
Though I guess we ought to find out how many SK.net members use Unix/Linux or mac before we get to work on that...
RealHarlekin said:But why 2D? I think 3D would be easier (sounds strange in first place).
Dirty Dog said:@Serpico: Interesting, you're a CS major?
I didn't bother wasting my parents' (or my future) money, I wouldn't even have gotten a degree because I wouldn't have taken any unrelated classes. So I'm almost completely self-taught, though I've been learning some stuff from an old school x86 programmer.
That's why I supposed 3D as my artistic dispositions tend to zero...CnC said:Not true. Its a decision of where your talent lies combined with the kind of game you're creating.
RealHarlekin said:That's why I supposed 3D as my artistic dispositions tend to zero...
Aazealh said:If you guys really want to make Berserk games then I'd highly recommend using Flash and sticking to small projects at first. Incredibly less complicated to make and potentially as entertaining provided a little imagination is thrown in the mix. Also, it would actually have a chance of being finished and functional, as opposed to a bigger project. Ah and also people could play it directly from SK.net without having to bother themselves.
Why 2D instead of 3D? Because it isn't a matter of graphics work, that's something I could do myself if necissary.RealHarlekin said:Talking about programmers... I've got an Honours degree in software engineering and am just about finishing my thesis for the second degree in computer science and therefore "speaking" all C-dialects, Java, PHP, Perl, ... As I am kind of a lazy writer, I did not join the thread earlier, but this comment hit my spot:
But why 2D? I think 3D would be easier (sounds strange in first place). For 2D you need a lot of sprites, meaning a lot of drawing effort. As part of my project in the last year of my software eng studies was coding a 3D game I can say, that it is not that hard (after getting used to it). I used the open source graphics engine Ogre3d, making it quite easy to create a small C++ startup programm and being independent of the OS. I created graphical content using Blender (open source as well) and if I wasn't so busy with my thesis, I would have improved the "game" (for now its only collision detection, pushing blocks, 3rd person camera and a blender generated room to move around and demonstrate collision).
I have seen Grayscale beeing firm with 3D-models (http://skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=7877.0). Mixed with the couple of artists (Photoshoppers) that could provide textures and some programmers (us) we could give it a try (after my thesis)!
(This idea is lurking at the back of my head for some time now )
And now you assume I care about how much money I make. I hate money (although I know it's necissary for daily life within our current social structure >.>), and to be honest never intend to make much any more than my parents did while I was growing up (they were both factory workers til I was about 12 or so, then my dad became a letter carrier and my mom became a home health aid).Serpico said:Yup, and trust me it is worth it and the only way to do the things I want to do, but thus far I have not spent any money, and hopefully I can keep it that way. Between grants and scholarships I have a net gain each semester. If you are implying a CS degree is not worthwhile you should look here
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=Bachelor_of_Science_(BS)_in_Computer_Science/Salary
Entry level salary is around 60k in any major city and easily goes up to double that. I am not down on being self taught, but CS is not just programming or learning things one can teach themselves too easily. You need something like 4 calculus classes, advanced trig and algebra, a few computer maths, a few physics courses, and depending on your focus varied amounts of electrical engineering and programming. Sure, a CS grad CAN be a software engineer, sysAdmin, or IT guy, OR they can be the person who builds the tools and develops the principles that those folks operate with, and for that you really do need all that math. I have more interest in advancing things rather than just working with what is already there. All in all its an extremely versatile degree that goes beyond any single area of technology.
If we're going for dev speed, we may as well just make it a DHTLM / JScript game (believe me, I've seen some good ones). :|On the matter of 2D or 3D, I think that primarily depends whether you have a 2D or 3D artist available who has the time to push out content. Here is the experimental flash I started but I am a little busy with summer session at the moment
http://www.ninetenths.org/cleaned_game.html
I still need change the mapping to use an array, and set up some spawning rules and AI for enemies. After that it should be easy to allow anyone who want to to make tiles, characters, and content for it. After spring I should be able to code 3D stuff and I am sure I will, however just as Aaz and CnC say Flash is still really far more practical as far as actually completing something. Not that some 3D berserk demos wouldn't totally kick ass though.
Dirty Dog said:Because I don't know Flash/ActionScript and don't really have any intention of learning. I like C++ plz. >=(
Dirty Dog said:Also, I dunno what school you go to, but all the schools I checked out required more credit hours between english and social science classes than they did in computer science. (for an associate's, anyway).
If we're going for dev speed, we may as well just make it a DHTLM / JScript game (believe me, I've seen some good ones). :|