Leynx
Entre la réalité et l'au-delà
Hi dear Berserk connoisseurs and specialists.
Thank you for accepting me in that dedicated forum to Berserk, a very great manga. And that is an euphemism.
I am not a native English speaker, so few syntax errors will be found through my post. I apologise for any inconveniences during reading.
I searched through the forum and found that the controversial topic of Casca feeling pleasure while being raped by Femto (And it sounds already a bit like an oxymoron or a contradiction) was already discussed but...many answers were (with all my respect) quite oriented in a kind of funny way not to say naïve.
Since some people here have access to exclusive material, maybe they can answer in a more appropriate way.
The post might be a bit long but I fear that shorter would betray what I want to ask or lack the depth that matter could have.
Reader of the manga, I couldn't avoid to notice that with the style, the storyboard and the pictures that it could seem like Casca is feeling pleasure during that quite traumatic moment (To say the least, I am not a big fan of rape scenes in any media).
I would like to avoid the very complex approach of: Could a woman feel pleasure while being forced / raped? Approach that I could summarise in few lines:
- It can happen (some victims mentioned that fact)
- Truthful information about the topic are very hard to find since they could be used to diminish the traumatic effects of rape for the victim and somehow excuse the rapists
- It usually makes things even worst in the aftermath for the victims which feel guilty and usually can't understand why and how their body could betray them.
- When pleasure for victims of rape is mentioned, it just increase the shunning and despise from society towards them (often, especially from their own partner)
- Sexologists think it could be a adaptive / defensive reaction of the body to avoid further physical damages in a sensitive part of the body or just a response to physical sexual stimulation
- Psychologists think it could be a adaptive / defensive reaction of the mind to avoid further physical damages in a sensitive part of the body or linked to hidden desires (we say it is complex)
- In fact nobody knows exactly why it happens but specialists know that the wrong people will use any theories in their favour.
- A rape is a rape, it shouldn't be done on anyone (beside rapists). Period
Maybe the case of Casca could be related to one the lines above? But until now, there is nothing that could point out how exactly and which array of emotions Casca felt in Femto's arms. We can just see that she went amnesic under the shock and that she kept a bad memory of the rape attempt by the apostles but not really anything about Femto himself. In fact to the despair of Guts, she is even drawn by the new Griffith when he appears in front of her.
My approach is more about: Didn't Miura just use a classic trope / cliché of hentai and Japanese erotic or pornographic material?
Cliché which is based on Japanese male conception of the female desire and quite exist in many different Japanese media (Some Hokusai's works show something like that). Somehow in the cultural background of japan, women are weak. Hence why strong women characters are a fantasy which arouse Japanese male consumers. Since they can like and possess this strong female character without facing the reality of such encounter. Warning: I did not say that Japanese women are weak. That Japanese cultural touch, pure sexism in favour of men can be seen in many aspect of the Japanese life. In Japanese erotic and porn, it is translated by the fact that girls / women are weak in front of the male reproductive organ and will submit by nature to any phallus introduced to them (no pun intended) whatever they wanted it or not. If it seems not that different from Western porn, Japanese will go further to the point that even a reluctant girl will by nature submit and feel pleasure to any sexual attention given to her by whoever or whatever it is. To put it simply, in Japanese male traditional mind, a woman can't avoid to feel pleasure (lust) during sex whatever it is forced (rape) or desired (love) and hence are shameful creatures by natures.
So did Miura just used that view on Japanese women with his treatment of Casca during her rape by Femto? And if such, would it be linked to some of the theories about Casca still having a remain of mixed emotions for Griffith until that point (and after)?
I have to say, for me it could change the way I can see the suffering of Guts. If seeing his beloved raped in front of his eyes wasn't enough, Guts would have to deal with the fact he witnessed Casca having pleasure with Femto (Fact which would suddenly blur the line between a rape and a kind of consensual sexual intercourse between two persons in lust...especially towards the end when obviously Casca feels Femto ejaculating in her and she is depicted having a orgasm or sort of). In this line, the hatred, despair and torments of Guts could be even more terrible...especially when he can see later the simple minded Casca drawn to Griffith or heard some lines from Skullknight about the fact that maybe turning back to normal is maybe not what she wants (that line is still ambiguous).
No need to remind that whatever Casca felt real for Guts before the eclipse, she was somehow quite lost in front of the princess and in front of the disabled Griffith.
If Miura just used the classic Japanese cliché of women just enjoying sex whatever is it a terrible rape (truism attack) or not without link to Casca's feelings for Griffith or / and Griffith's power to turn Casca in lust...In this case...man...it is a terrible fail (It happens to many contemporary masterpieces anyway...no big deal) as really rape is not all vaginal lubrification, lusty eyes, swollen aroused lips and a girl actively going for it as shown in those chapters.
Did Miura talk about those scene and if he did, what were his intentions then?
The same kind of Japanese cliché about women and rape can be seen with the Black dog during his first apparition having sex with women who seem to all enjoy him.
PS: I may add, in the same line, why Guts in the first pages of the manga has sex with the female apostle (murderer of Corkus) before killing her? Was is a reference to Wicked City (from Kawajiri) or Conan the Barbarian with Arnold Schwarzenegger? If not it could go a bit against what we know of the character and sex. Of course, Guts is not a virgin as somehow it is shown he knows how to do with a girl but not much is said about his private life (Which actually I appreciate...an harem Berserk would feel silly in my humble opinion)
Thank you for reading and answering.
Thank you for accepting me in that dedicated forum to Berserk, a very great manga. And that is an euphemism.
I am not a native English speaker, so few syntax errors will be found through my post. I apologise for any inconveniences during reading.
I searched through the forum and found that the controversial topic of Casca feeling pleasure while being raped by Femto (And it sounds already a bit like an oxymoron or a contradiction) was already discussed but...many answers were (with all my respect) quite oriented in a kind of funny way not to say naïve.
Since some people here have access to exclusive material, maybe they can answer in a more appropriate way.
The post might be a bit long but I fear that shorter would betray what I want to ask or lack the depth that matter could have.
Reader of the manga, I couldn't avoid to notice that with the style, the storyboard and the pictures that it could seem like Casca is feeling pleasure during that quite traumatic moment (To say the least, I am not a big fan of rape scenes in any media).
I would like to avoid the very complex approach of: Could a woman feel pleasure while being forced / raped? Approach that I could summarise in few lines:
- It can happen (some victims mentioned that fact)
- Truthful information about the topic are very hard to find since they could be used to diminish the traumatic effects of rape for the victim and somehow excuse the rapists
- It usually makes things even worst in the aftermath for the victims which feel guilty and usually can't understand why and how their body could betray them.
- When pleasure for victims of rape is mentioned, it just increase the shunning and despise from society towards them (often, especially from their own partner)
- Sexologists think it could be a adaptive / defensive reaction of the body to avoid further physical damages in a sensitive part of the body or just a response to physical sexual stimulation
- Psychologists think it could be a adaptive / defensive reaction of the mind to avoid further physical damages in a sensitive part of the body or linked to hidden desires (we say it is complex)
- In fact nobody knows exactly why it happens but specialists know that the wrong people will use any theories in their favour.
- A rape is a rape, it shouldn't be done on anyone (beside rapists). Period
Maybe the case of Casca could be related to one the lines above? But until now, there is nothing that could point out how exactly and which array of emotions Casca felt in Femto's arms. We can just see that she went amnesic under the shock and that she kept a bad memory of the rape attempt by the apostles but not really anything about Femto himself. In fact to the despair of Guts, she is even drawn by the new Griffith when he appears in front of her.
My approach is more about: Didn't Miura just use a classic trope / cliché of hentai and Japanese erotic or pornographic material?
Cliché which is based on Japanese male conception of the female desire and quite exist in many different Japanese media (Some Hokusai's works show something like that). Somehow in the cultural background of japan, women are weak. Hence why strong women characters are a fantasy which arouse Japanese male consumers. Since they can like and possess this strong female character without facing the reality of such encounter. Warning: I did not say that Japanese women are weak. That Japanese cultural touch, pure sexism in favour of men can be seen in many aspect of the Japanese life. In Japanese erotic and porn, it is translated by the fact that girls / women are weak in front of the male reproductive organ and will submit by nature to any phallus introduced to them (no pun intended) whatever they wanted it or not. If it seems not that different from Western porn, Japanese will go further to the point that even a reluctant girl will by nature submit and feel pleasure to any sexual attention given to her by whoever or whatever it is. To put it simply, in Japanese male traditional mind, a woman can't avoid to feel pleasure (lust) during sex whatever it is forced (rape) or desired (love) and hence are shameful creatures by natures.
So did Miura just used that view on Japanese women with his treatment of Casca during her rape by Femto? And if such, would it be linked to some of the theories about Casca still having a remain of mixed emotions for Griffith until that point (and after)?
I have to say, for me it could change the way I can see the suffering of Guts. If seeing his beloved raped in front of his eyes wasn't enough, Guts would have to deal with the fact he witnessed Casca having pleasure with Femto (Fact which would suddenly blur the line between a rape and a kind of consensual sexual intercourse between two persons in lust...especially towards the end when obviously Casca feels Femto ejaculating in her and she is depicted having a orgasm or sort of). In this line, the hatred, despair and torments of Guts could be even more terrible...especially when he can see later the simple minded Casca drawn to Griffith or heard some lines from Skullknight about the fact that maybe turning back to normal is maybe not what she wants (that line is still ambiguous).
No need to remind that whatever Casca felt real for Guts before the eclipse, she was somehow quite lost in front of the princess and in front of the disabled Griffith.
If Miura just used the classic Japanese cliché of women just enjoying sex whatever is it a terrible rape (truism attack) or not without link to Casca's feelings for Griffith or / and Griffith's power to turn Casca in lust...In this case...man...it is a terrible fail (It happens to many contemporary masterpieces anyway...no big deal) as really rape is not all vaginal lubrification, lusty eyes, swollen aroused lips and a girl actively going for it as shown in those chapters.
Did Miura talk about those scene and if he did, what were his intentions then?
The same kind of Japanese cliché about women and rape can be seen with the Black dog during his first apparition having sex with women who seem to all enjoy him.
PS: I may add, in the same line, why Guts in the first pages of the manga has sex with the female apostle (murderer of Corkus) before killing her? Was is a reference to Wicked City (from Kawajiri) or Conan the Barbarian with Arnold Schwarzenegger? If not it could go a bit against what we know of the character and sex. Of course, Guts is not a virgin as somehow it is shown he knows how to do with a girl but not much is said about his private life (Which actually I appreciate...an harem Berserk would feel silly in my humble opinion)
Thank you for reading and answering.