Death to... BitTorrent!?

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

darkbane said:
Should I take this as a compliment?  :)

Yes, sir.

Anyway, I'm going to give, hopefully, my final piece on file-sharing and BT and all that shit. I'm not attacking those that have issue with business ethics in the media or anything, just me buds sending movies to each other on AIM or albums that haven't even been released yet. ;)

First, I never said don't do it or feel bad, I sure don't ^_^, I just find the Robin Hood attitude, as Walter put it, to be a little far-fetched and convenient in this case.

It's like people aren't happy just getting everything for free, it has to be justified; viva la tech revolution! But I don't want any such thing anymore than the corporations do, then I'd have to pay for downloads; that idea is as alien as it offensive.  I think it's more that people have gotten a taste of free shit, they're hooked through the bag, everyone's doing it, so it must be okay, and we'll fight tooth and nail before paying any of those bastards for downloadable media ever again, no matter how ugly it gets.

Perfectly understanable human nature, but that doesn't mean we have to fool ourselves.

Lithrael said:
Myself, I 'steal' on a level comparable to taping songs off the radio, and I'm sorry, I *really* can't accept that I should feel bad for taping songs off the radio.

Um, yeah, my point exactly. Steal is in quotes and you know what? You AIN'T taping songs off the radio. Unless that is, you're only downloading songs that actually WERE taped off the radio. =)

"Otherwise, I'm pretty sure you're" stealing "master or CD quality versions of popular recordings."

Hey, I do it too, but that's because I'm obviously cheap, greedy, and I know that I CAN get them for free without consequence; therefore, how can I bring myself to pay for this shit? When the comparison shopping is $20 or FREE, no wonder those corporations prices seem so outrageous. It has nothing to do with the industries to me though (and I believe such an argument employed here only hurts the legitimate beefs people have with such enterprises), I didn't care before (I hated spending $15-30 on a CD or DVD, yeah), and I don't care now (especially with that $15-30 still in my pocket), but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for something I know I can get free, and damn anyone that gets in my way or tries to stop me, or even God forbid, punish me; fuckers like that make me nervous, so I hate them! That's the bottom line in all this, and is that so hard to admit, people?

We live in an age of unprecedented technological plundering with little to no danger of retribution, so much so that we don't even understand or appreciate how amazing it is anymore. And that's exactly what worries me; people so arrogant and unaware of what they're getting away with, are bound to bring it all down on themselves.

And ruin it for me! ARRRRR!!! 8)
 
D

darkbane

Guest
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

"Griffith No More!" said:
...everyone's doing it, so it must be okay, and we'll fight tooth and nail before paying any of those bastards for downloadable media ever again...
That would be the dangerous train of thought of the common (halfway computer illiterate) masses. Don't you miss the days when Warez groups were still Warez groups, and not 0day d00dz, and were still operating off BBS? And pirated soft was sold on the street in shady markets in the ghetto? (That's how it was where I was from at least, this is 1993 I'm talking about ^_^). Just kidding.

"Griffith No More!" said:
...but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for something I know I can get free, and damn anyone that gets in my way or tries to stop me, or even God forbid, punish me; fuckers like that make me nervous, so I hate them! That's the bottom line in all this, and is that so hard to admit, people?
I would like to admit to it, but the problem is, I actually go out and buy a CD if I find a song I really like... call me masochistic. I have no conscience problems with downloading stuff in the first place tho... I don't download software either (for bandwith reasons, not for conscience), but try to find bargain deals for it.

"Griffith No More!" said:
...And ruin it for me! ARRRRR!!! 8)
Don't worry, as long as there is an internet, there will be this phenomenon.  Well, unless you buy a computer with a DRM chip and Microshaft Windblows, I guess. Also, the FCC ruled that the internet is not a limited resource (yeah, right), so we shouldn't be running out anytime soon.  ;)


EDIT: In recent developments...
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,66051,00.html
 

Lithrael

Remember, always hold your apple tight
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

"Griffith No More!" said:
Steal is in quotes and you know what? You AIN'T taping songs off the radio. Unless that is, you're only downloading songs that actually WERE taped off the radio. =)

I'm downloading songs taped in Italian live arenas twenty years ago, mostly.

If you want to get right down to it, I use this technology for exactly the same shit I used to use the mail and cassette tapes for. If they take it away I'd go right back to mail and cassette tapes. It's just 100x the hassle.

So don't sit there telling us all "we don't even understand or appreciate how amazing it is anymore" ok? Of course some people don't but a lot definitely DO.

Like Darkbane, I BUY what I like when I can. This isn't about my being worried about losing my lovely precious free movies. This is about my being worried about losing my main way of getting copies of stuff to listen to on the computer, of finding new stuff I might like, of seeing anime that I'd never hear of otherwise.

I'm not a kid, I'm not used to/dependent on this stuff. It's just really cool and I am going to bitch about people wanting to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

"Griffith No More!" said:
Hey, I do it too, but that's because I'm obviously cheap, greedy, and I know that I CAN get them for free without consequence; therefore, how can I bring myself to pay for this shit?

Fine, but please realise you speak for yourself, not for everyone, ok?

"Griffith No More!" said:
When the comparison shopping is $20 or FREE, no wonder those corporations prices seem so outrageous.

But remember, even with inflation, tapes and LPs never cost so much, and they cost more to produce and sold far fewer copies than CDs sell today, yet the recording industry did just fine back then. The cost of CDs IS artificially jacked up, like it or not.
 
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

Walter and Griffith, I think you miss the point here
The roots of the problem is something deeper  
It has to do with capitalsm
We are talking about consumation of entertainment goods
Now, entertainment is all about special effects for example (the need of new economical innovations for the market has grasped technology this way)
Entertainment, becoming a mass consumation product on the global market, puts more emphasis on economic innovations than on the human-social factor
In a mass media global world, this of course will reflect on people's culture and the way they consume
Mass media here make sure that the production-consume will have the feedback relation needed in the end...something like confining the situation in a self-contained loop, closed to an approach of a different take
Result is that people will be consuming and producting these goods in the end: plastic dildos
In my opinion becoming dumper and dumper, touching the extreme of dehumanization that capitalsim can afford
Cinema revolution this way seems only but a miracle
 

SaiyajinNoOuji

I'm still better than you
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

xechnao said:
Walter and Griffith, I think you miss the point here
The roots of the problem is something deeper  
It has to do with capitalsm
We are talking about consumation of entertainment goods
Now, entertainment is all about special effects for example (the need of new economical innovations for the market has grasped technology this way)
Entertainment, becoming a mass consumation product on the global market, puts more emphasis on economic innovations than on the human-social factor
In a mass media global world, this of course will reflect on people's culture and the way they consume
Mass media here make sure that the production-consume will have the feedback relation needed in the end...something like confining the situation in a self-contained loop, closed to an approach of a different take
Result is that people will be consuming and producting these goods in the end: plastic dildos
In my opinion becoming dumper and dumper, touching the extreme of dehumanization that capitalsim can afford
Cinema revolution this way seems only but a miracle
Actually, i think you are looking way to much into the problem. It's just like they said, it's as simple as we are stealing from the people who are making the product and they want to stop that. It really is that simple.
 
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

SaiyajinNoOuji said:
Actually, i think you are looking way to much into the problem. It's just like they said, it's as simple as we are stealing from the people who are making the product and they want to stop that. It really is that simple.

No, it ain't that simple... for humankind there have been various cultures , not just one
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

SaiyajinNoOuji said:
Actually, i think you are looking way to much into the problem. It's just like they said, it's as simple as we are stealing from the people who are making the product and they want to stop that. It really is that simple.

See, that's all I wanted to say in the first place, thanks Saiya. ;D

And to all you people out there downloading uncopyrighted bootleg underground Italian opera performances and the like, I wasn't ciriticizing  that specific situation, just making a broader point about the moral abuses of this technology, not it's obvious usefulness in such innocent things. I don't think you have much to worry about anyway. =)
 
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

"Griffith No More!" said:
See, that's all I wanted to say in the first place, thanks Saiya. ;D

And to all you people out there downloading uncopyrighted bootleg underground Italian opera performances and the like, I wasn't ciricizing  that specific situation, just making a broader point about the moral abuses of this technology, not it's obvious usefulness in such innocent things. I don't think you have much to worry about anyway. =)

Yeah, on this superficial -or not superficial- take you are 100% correct
But, since cinema revolution and points such as the nature of goods and their use have made it in the topic, I tried to put them in the right position, according to my opinion that is.
 

Lithrael

Remember, always hold your apple tight
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

"Griffith No More!" said:
I wasn't ciricizing  that specific situation, just making a broader point about the moral abuses of this technology, not it's obvious usefulness in such innocent things.

:)  Ok, thanks.  

I mostly was making a stink about it, because of the way so many people like to talk about it as if everyone abuses the hell out of the free stuff.  "You're all a bunch of stealing stealers, you stealers!!" ...Even though that is the majority, apparantly, it's still not everyone.  Thanks for acknowledging that.   ;)
 

Headless_Death

u/QuartetGhent
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

The dilemma is that of a double edged sword. On one side we have the recording companies and the movie makers, and on the other we have the people who use the P2P services.

If in fact the industry wins and disables the P2P system we have become to appreciate, many of us will be unable to get the content we seek.  P2P systems had also been a way to aid the beginning struggling artists who have not yet created a name for themselves get a foot in the door and aim towards the fans.(talking mostly of how they could use it to distribute their music without bandwidth worries.)  For me I enjoyed it so I could watch the television shows that I had missed the night I had just worked.  I did not see problem downloading a bad recording of the show I missed.  On top of that finding music time forgot, was great.  being able to find music decades past that noone ever had regarded as great or even good music.  (Sure not as important to me, but for my father it was great to find things he could no longer find) But the main fear hear for me is too heavy of restiction on what may be shared.

On the otherhand if the piracy continues, it may not only begin to chip away at the industries, but become a slippery slope where more and more people expect to get intellectual properties for nothing, where no one will feel like sharing their ideas outside of small circles since they will not receive any respect or compensation for their work.  Although perhaps it will give filmmakers respect for a good story. ;)
In reality I see it as a hinderance of what filmakers can do. it seems that currently recording companies are so fixated on making up their losses from the "free digital distribution" that they on screwing over the honest. 
Example:(lord of the rings being released on dvd forcing all the unfortunate that liked the movie into purchasing it, then just months later rereleasing it into the version with the deleted scenes and the dvd features the people wanted, making those same unfortunate people who liked the movie to repurchase it.)

At least that's my thought on it.
 

Headless_Death

u/QuartetGhent
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

"Griffith No More!" said:
Caveat emptor.
Sure, it's their own fault for purchasing(the second or third movie. 'Fool me once shame on you, fool me two or three times and I'm an idiot.').  But at the same time it was kinda sneaky of them for the first release. ;)
I admit that I personally wasn't one of these people(Fell asleep during the first movie when I first saw it, and still haven't watched the others), but one of my friends was suckered into it on all three occations.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

Headless Death said:
Sure, it's their own fault for purchasing(the second or third movie. 'Fool me once shame on you, fool me two or three times and I'm an idiot.').  But at the same time it was kinda sneaky of them for the first release. ;)
I admit that I personally wasn't one of these people(Fell asleep during the first movie when I first saw it, and still haven't watched the others), but one of my friends was suckered into it on all three occations.

Exactly, my first response was going to be, "I feel sorry for people that buy LOTR DVDs too."

But anyway, who cares? Did you hear about those Great Whites!? ;D
 
P

paradise_lost

Guest
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

Lithrael said:
I'm downloading songs taped in Italian live arenas twenty years ago, mostly.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

R u crazy? I'm sure u could find something better to download ...

::)
 
D

darkbane

Guest
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

paradise_lost said:
:eek: :eek: :eek:

R u crazy? I'm sure u could find something better to download ...

  ::)

It's a free country. Or world, I guess. Our music preferences are our own. 8)
 

Vampire_Hunter_Bob

Cats are great
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

xechnao said:
Speaking of which, I have been hearing this quote too many times...there must be something wrong with it, I guess

Good point. We don't own the air man [/stoner]

Edit: I'm only 95% sure I know where Xechnao is going with that.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
Edit: I'm only 95% sure I know where Xechnao is going with that.

That the only way to truly free the World is through the equal opportunity, two-fold greatness of Democracy and Capitalisim, perhaps best adminstrated by a U.S. led Imperial World Government!? ;D
 
D

darkbane

Guest
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

"Griffith No More!" said:
That the only way to truly free the World is through the equal opportunity, two-fold greatness of Democracy and Capitalisim, perhaps best adminstrated by a U.S. led Imperial World Government!? ;D

God please let's not go there. It may not be evident, but I'm a devout America-hater...
 

d00kiemastah

All I want to do is...bicycle.
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

Only Freddie Mercury could stop the doomed direction this thread is suddenly heading, and he is dead. We can only pray he will rise again.
 

Vampire_Hunter_Bob

Cats are great
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

"Griffith No More!" said:
That the only way to truly free the World is through the equal opportunity, two-fold greatness of Democracy and Capitalisim, perhaps best adminstrated by a U.S. led Imperial World Government!? ;D

Yeah something around the lines. ;D

darkbane said:
God please let's not go there. It may not be evident, but I'm a devout America-hater...

"Hey everybody! It's me darkbane, it's ok to be racist as long as it's towards Americans. So go do that noble fascist thing and solute our Fuhrer, and remember all Americans are evil imperialist pigs because they are different."
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Re: Death to... BitTorrent!!??!?!?

Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
"Hey everybody! It's me darkbane, it's ok to be racist as long as it's towards Americans.

You can't really be racist toward Americans, since America isn't a race but a nation. Fucking capitalist pig, Allah akbar!
 
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