Episode 290

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Damaramu said:
How could I possibly take offense? My comments are only ridiculous, embarrassing, without good understanding, etc etc etc.

Well, yes. In fact you should probably be thankful that other members aren't taking offense with what you say. :guts:

Damaramu said:
Hence, one of the first things Griffith did after getting body back, was check to see if he still had his "Guts weakness". When he concluded that it was cured, then in my opinion, he resumed being the character he was in the Midland era

He did feel something when he saw Guts fight Zodd though, because of he Demon Child. And he'll never be again the character he was during the Golden Age arc (what you call the "Midland era").

Damaramu said:
Whether Griffith is 100% responsible for his success, or as you say, some "Idea of Evil" is helping out, is immaterial.

Hahaha, you really don't understand how it's working it seems. Since this is a waste of space here, could you please search for previous discussions on the matter (using the forum's search feature), and then if you're still not convinced, express your doubts in another thread like Walter suggested? Thanks in advance.

Damaramu said:
And even if Ganishka is not in on the plan as an accomplice, then I'm just about convinced that he's still having his strings pulled by Griffith unknowingly somehow.

Hahaha whoa, now that's some serious stuff man. Ganishka, a secret accomplice! And Griffith that gave him secret orders to create an empire while he was in his mother's womb! I'm truly sorry if that hurts your feeling Damaramu, but this IS a ridiculous thing to say. I think you should re-read the concerned parts of the manga and pay special attention to the mentions of causality and how it can set events. It plays a major part in the story and you seem to be grossly overestimating the extent of Griffith's power and ability to plan things out because you're not taking it into account. Again, please start a thread elsewhere if you feel that more should be explained.

Damaramu said:
I don't see the conflict being too long for one main reason - Guts is not there - and Berserk is, all in all, the story of Guts. It would seem like a huge tangent to me for there to be a volume spanning Griffith battle with Guts being completely abscent.

It's not like there aren't precedents of series of episodes focusing away from Guts you know (there were 6 of them for the battle that didn't happen in Vritannis), and this battle will be an unprecedented event. Besides, we could see some progress on Guts' side without the battle necessarily ending.

Damaramu said:
Walter made a point with the armor (even though I'm personally hoping for the white in his hair to be fixed in Elfhelm), so I'll drop it. I'm curious though, what other official sources are there other than the manga? Does Miura give interviews which are published somewhere else or something

You should drop it because it doesn't make any sense no matter how you look at it, not because someone made a point you couldn't find some far-fetched response to. After all, maybe Guts left the Berserk's armor and the rest of his equipment with his friends and went alone back to the same village with a new armor resembling his old armor and a new crossbow resembling his old one too! And then he relived events from volume 1 but slightly differently! And Griffith became Femto again, but with the wrong color!

Concerning official sources other than the manga, Kentarou Miura has indeed given interviews and Berserk is prepublished in a magazine called Young Animal, and there are artbooks, etc. There's an encyclopedia on this site, and a search feature on this forum. Please use them.
 

Pesmerga

This is going to be one hell of a party
Thanks for the episode CnC ^^
Interesting episode, the graphic style of the page 9 is awesome. :miura:
So the next episode return with Griffith, personally I think it's cool because i really want to see the Griffith/Ganishka battle.
And it'll make the mystery of Elfhelm last a little longer.
 

SlimeBeherit

[FIGHT][SPELL] [SACRIFICE][ITEM]
awesome episode, thank you CnC

About :ganishka: VS :griff: (one on one), i can't see it. I always feel like Griffith's greatest strength is his tactical intelligence.I can't help but feel like Griffith is physically weak for not being able to sacrifice the most important person for Griffith.... Guts
 

SlimeBeherit

[FIGHT][SPELL] [SACRIFICE][ITEM]
well , what i meant is that i have always felt like Griffith isnt as powerful as we think, because Guts wasnt sacrificed. Guts was very important to Griffith, and being how when you sacrifice someone you're suppose to sacrifice some of importance to you, i feel like he didnt get that much power from sacrificing his army with the exclusion of Casca and Guts. Every time Griffith is about to have a one-on-one battle with some of great power he's interrupted, as of late at least (after the incarnation from Femto to Griffith).
 

KazigluBey

Misanthrōpos
Guts was marked for sacrifice, hence the brand. Causality just didn't have it in mind I suppose, or Guts' will to survive (with a little help from SK) threw causality for a loop. I don't think there was some power meter that failed to be maxed out because Guts and Casca escaped during the eclipse. The demon child is the only factor that could have directly weakened Griffith. Griffith's strengths are his strong determination, his charisma which draws people to him, and his skills as a leader/strategist. And as far as Griffith being interrupted, that's how Miura wants things to play out for now.
 
KazigluBey said:
Guts was marked for sacrifice, hence the brand. Causality just didn't have it in mind I suppose, or Guts' will to survive (with a little help from SK) threw causality for a loop. I don't think there was some power meter that failed to be maxed out because Guts and Casca escaped during the eclipse.

Exactly. Both Casca and Guts were sacrificed, they just weren't killed. The branding itself is what matters.
 
Griffith is at least strong enough to cleave off Zodd's horn without much effort. maybe we're taking that for more than it's worth, but I'd say it's at least 10 cents.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Kaji-Ryohji said:
I always feel like Griffith's greatest strength is his tactical intelligence.

Well it seems you're wrong then. Griffith isn't human anymore, so his greatest strength is arguably his status as the fifth member of the God Hand and the power it confers him. Needless to say, you were wrong about Guts and Casca not being sacrificed, as it was pointed out. It's incredible that some people are still mistaken about stuff like this.

KazigluBey said:
Causality just didn't have it in mind I suppose, or Guts' will to survive (with a little help from SK) threw causality for a loop.

More like SK saved their asses from certain death. Whether or not it was meant to happen remains debatable, the Idea of Evil's ways are hard to see through (the IoE being the entity manipulating causality).

KazigluBey said:
The demon child is the only factor that could have directly weakened Griffith. Griffith's strengths are his strong determination, his charisma which draws people to him, and his skills as a leader/strategist.

I take it you mean it weakened him emotionally then, because nothing indicates that he's been weakened in another way. And about his strengths, I'd say you also forgot to mention his otherworldly powers.

mightyg said:
Griffith is at least strong enough to cleave off Zodd's horn without much effort. maybe we're taking that for more than it's worth, but I'd say it's at least 10 cents.

Well it's a little complicated, you see. When the Falcon of Light cleaved Zodd in half, it did so in a strange half-dream world. It was part of the collective dream that affected everyone (Guts, Raban, the former King of Midland, etc). That was before Femto's incarnation, and we're not sure how it happened or whether Griffith can actually transform into a giant bird made of light at will or not. This basically goes back to what we've been saying for years: "we don't know exactly what the extent of Griffith's powers is." Maybe this time with the oncoming battle we'll get an unambiguous demonstration though.
 

Scorpio

Courtesy of Grail's doodling.
Aazealh said:
Whether or not it was meant to happen remains debatable, the Idea of Evil's ways are hard to see through (the IoE being the entity manipulating causality).

While it is hard to say, I like to speculate that it was IoE's intent to have Guts and Casca survive. At the very least, the incarnation ceremony for Griffith would have happened quite differently, if at all.
 

SlimeBeherit

[FIGHT][SPELL] [SACRIFICE][ITEM]
Aazealh said:
Needless to say, you were wrong about Guts and Casca not being sacrificed, as it was pointed out. It's incredible that some people are still mistaken about stuff like this.

I must have misunderstood Slan's speech in the anime
 
Another great episode, Look like it's a battle between 2 animals. The dog and the falcon.

Somehow I got a feeling that the next time Guts turn into beast form again, its going to be goddamn powerful.

Anyway does the last page of this episode remind anyone of anything, it has been 28 volumes ago since I have that memories. :carcus:
 
Scorpio said:
While it is hard to say, I like to speculate that it was IoE's intent to have Guts and Casca survive. At the very least, the incarnation ceremony for Griffith would have happened quite differently, if at all.

I always thought along the same lines you do. I don't see how the "sacrifices" at the incarnation ceremony could have happened without the two brands stirring up all those evil spirits.

I've never paid much attention to Puck's impressions, but the face he put on when Magnifico found him was hilarious to me and I don't even understand the reference.
 

Black_Devil

Punos Rey
Aazealh said:
More like SK saved their asses from certain death. Whether or not it was meant to happen remains debatable, the Idea of Evil's ways are hard to see through (the IoE being the entity manipulating causality).

Only thing you've ever said on here that irked me, not because I'm trying to be monkeybutt, but because I don't see any situation possible that the Idea could benefit from Guts surviving. Ofcourse, as you know from our discussions we've had sometimes on aim, I usually tend to be missing out on important stuff or what not. But in this case, wouldn't Guts(and the beast, but more on that later) be more of an unwanted pest? Of course, not like they could do anything to it(nor have any way to the Ideal world that we know of) at current time anyway. But Guts/SK could potentially pose a danger to the Godhand at the very least if nothing else, and they are directly carrying out the Idea's will as well as their own desires, so why have the nuisance of those two running around?

Now onto something related to this episode, it really seems to me that the Beast is coming into its own as an entity now. At first I just thought him and Guts to be two sides of the same coin, but it's speech indicates to me at least that it is its' own sentient being. We know that the Dslayer has gained demonic properties, the extent we don't know yet, but it's able to dispel :ganishka:'s fog form. But, what could the beast possibly do to Griffith? In the world of speculation, do you guys think the beast has its' own power?(Seeing as it is conscious of the Berserker armor, and was admittedly using it as a means to exert its' will through Guts, I just don't see how the Beast could have any meaningful impact besides being a wild creature.(That would've almost assuredly died to Grunbeld if that encounter can be used as any measure of the Beast's might).
 
I'm not 100% sure what you mean by sentient but The beast is a metaphor for the part of guts that is finding it emotionally difficult to move on with life since the eclipse. It is not it's own life form but a part of guts that seems to have a mind of its own. However this is just an illusion and it still works for guts like the other thousands of parts that make up the intellect and personality.

In the case of multiple personalities and several other disorders these parts can trick the person into thinking that the balance of power is the other way around.


Except for the last line the above are my opinions presented as facts.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Black_Devil said:
But Guts/SK could potentially pose a danger to the Godhand at the very least if nothing else, and they are directly carrying out the Idea's will as well as their own desires, so why have the nuisance of those two running around?
I think the problem here is you're trying to rationally explain the motivations of A GOD. Besides, clearly not all information is on the table yet, so we can't make a succinct judgement on the motivations of a "character" we've only seen once, in a non-canon episode.

We know that the Dslayer has gained demonic properties, the extent we don't know yet, but it's able to dispel :ganishka:'s fog form.
Yeah, but I wouldn't call the sword's properties "demonic." I don't think there's an apt word for it yet.

But, what could the beast possibly do to Griffith? In the world of speculation, do you guys think the beast has its' own power?(Seeing as it is conscious of the Berserker armor, and was admittedly using it as a means to exert its' will through Guts, I just don't see how the Beast could have any meaningful impact besides being a wild creature.(That would've almost assuredly died to Grunbeld if that encounter can be used as any measure of the Beast's might).
At this point I think the question to be asked is what could the Beast's desperate pursuit of Griffith do to Guts? It's so intent on this suicidal mission that's the basest desire of Guts, the pursuit of which will tear his body apart. That's the real threat, in my opinion.

And what are you talking about Grunbeld being able to kill the beast? Grunbeld got his ass handed to him... Surely I just misinterpreted you. Anyway, the Beast's "strength" if you can call it that, is Guts' own. He just performed better because of the activated Berserk Armor.
 

Black_Devil

Punos Rey
Walter said:
I think the problem here is you're trying to rationally explain the motivations of A GOD. Besides, clearly not all information is on the table yet, so we can't make a succinct judgement on the motivations of a "character" we've only seen once, in a non-canon episode.
Yeah, but I wouldn't call the sword's properties "demonic." I don't think there's an apt word for it yet.

Well, you trumped me there Sir

At this point I think the question to be asked is what could the Beast's desperate pursuit of Griffith do to Guts? It's so intent on this suicidal mission that's the basest desire of Guts, the pursuit of which will tear his body apart. That's the real threat, in my opinion.

I agree with you there too, I guess I was reading into it too much, it just seemed to me that the beast was coming into its own as a being hence its relentless pursuit of Griffith, but I won't make any excuses, I truly just forgot the base nature of the Beast and was trying to make it more than it was.[/quote]


And what are you talking about Grunbeld being able to kill the beast? Grunbeld got his ass handed to him... Surely I just misinterpreted you.

Yes, I meant Grunbeld in his Apostle form. I honestly think Guts would've died to the fully released Grunbeld, even though he was able to crack Grunbeld's corundum armor, it really looked like Berserker Guts could only manage to trade with Apostle Grunbeld, which I think would've seriously ended up being fatal.
 
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