Episode 359

I'm wondering whether the boy could be triggered to transform into Griffith or Femto using his name. Miura set it up that using the true name of an astral being was a way to trigger them to show their true form. They did this with Isma. What if they accidentally brought it on when the boy is here.

Potentially it could bring Griffith in a state where he is off guard, suddenly appearing in the middle of Elf Helm.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
I'm wondering whether the boy could be triggered to transform into Griffith or Femto using his name. Miura set it up that using the true name of an astral being was a way to trigger them to show their true form. They did this with Isma. What if they accidentally brought it on when the boy is here.

Potentially it could bring Griffith in a state where he is off guard, suddenly appearing in the middle of Elf Helm.
That's something I've speculated on before, including in the latest podcast I believe. That being said I don't think the element of surprise would be much of an advantage against Femto (that would have to be his true name, not "Griffith"). It's like locking up a tiger in a room with you. Technically the tiger's trapped, sure, but you're the one getting killed.

An aspect I find more interesting in the long term (that I had also mentioned in the podcast I believe) is that the boy technically doesn't have a name yet. For the first time, Guts and Casca will have the opportunity to give him one, and that might play a big role in the future. Because the boy's corporeal body was transformed into Griffith's, maybe his name would take precedence, and so calling him by his name could "bring him forth" even without a full moon. That'd be a pretty big menace for Griffith, since he would basically be transformed against his will.
 
I can't wait honestly. Though I'm curious as to what Casca will do with the moonlight child (assuming the child arrives at Elfhelm in the midst of this episode).
 

jackson_hurley

even the horses are cut in half!
It could be Casca that tells Guts by the end of the episode that the moonlight boy is their kid. Or remembering who he is when the boy makes his appearance.
 

pupuce

un p'tit belge parmi vous
Maybe Griffith will come to see caska. He leave the night.... Probably THE night when she were awake....
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Maybe Griffith will come to see caska. He leave the night.... Probably THE night when she were awake....
The boy is coming to see his mother, obviously. But the way you're framing it makes it sound like a repeat of volume 22, when Griffith came to see Guts. That's not what's going on here.
 
Damn, this news instantly made this month a good month for sure.

Now at last we shall see how Miura will apply the concept of the different flow of time in Elfhelm in the story, see its effects. At what point in time will the boy meet up with his parents? Will they have had enough time to be together after Casca's recovery? Or will the child's arrival somehow disrupt the peace they need? Or rather, will he be a positive element for both? It's really hard to tell when your child is not just your child, but Femto as well. So many lines colliding at the same time. On one hand you have your long-awaited reunion and recovery after so many years, and on the other, a visit of your own son, who also happens to be the very man who destroyed everything you both once had. Drama approaches again.
That is just leaving everyone else out of the equation. I don't think Femto's presence on the island will not be sensed by everyone. Will Danan simply cross her arms and watch, or should we expect some reaction? What if the boy arrives in daylight and converts back to Griffith?
 
I'm wondering whether the boy could be triggered to transform into Griffith or Femto using his name. Miura set it up that using the true name of an astral being was a way to trigger them to show their true form. They did this with Isma. What if they accidentally brought it on when the boy is here.

Potentially it could bring Griffith in a state where he is off guard, suddenly appearing in the middle of Elf Helm.
I don't think the boy has a true name, he's a cursed human, not an astral creature. The fact that the boy is teleporting into a region of the world that is very likely not on the same lunar phase as the rest of the world, negating his ability to maintain control, is a more likely cause of an impromptu transformation.
 
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I could imagine Guts considering to leave Elfhelm in the next episode. His initial goal of bringing Casca to Elfhelm is accomplished, but with her reaction towards him and the possible inability to be around Guts for now, may make him think about pursuing his sake of revenge again as this will be even more amplified with what Femtos rape caused at the end of the day. Not only did Casca break down as a person, but now where she is back, Guts deals as a constant reminder to her.

I would love some episodes to deal with this plotline. Guts preparing to leave, getting his DS reforged by the dwarfs, announcing his decision to his comrades while we see Casca on the other side dealing with her emotions on starting to remember everything. Obviously by the end of it all, the moonlight boy would bring his parents back together.
 
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Walter

Administrator
Staff member
he's a cursed human, not an astral creature.
He's more likely something in between as a result of how Femto tainted him in the womb. Consider how he gestated, disappeared like a specter, etc. He's at the very least a denizen of the interstice.

The fact that the boy is teleporting into a region of the world that is very likely not on the same lunar phase as the rest of the world, negating his ability to maintain control.
Using the tree isn't teleportation, but transportation. Anyway, I don't think it's inconceivable that the boy will be able to maintain his form, short of any intervention from Femto. Otherwise why would he even make the trip?

I could imagine Guts considering to leave Elfhelm in the next episode. His initial goal of bringing Casca to Elfhelm is accomplished, but with her reaction towards him and the possible inability to be around Guts for now, may make him think about pursuing his sake of revenge again
I can't imagine that. Rather, it sounds like something the Black Swordsman era Guts would do. Oh wait, he did! :carcus: So how would you reconcile this notion with the vow he swore to himself in Volume 17?

Not only did Casca break down as a person, but now where she is back, Guts deals as a constant reminder to her.
Of course it's going to be difficult for them to redress that. But walking away from the problem and throwing himself into revenge isn't the solution, as the series has already made pretty clear.

If what you're proposing is Guts just considering the easy-way-out possibility of going out on his own, and then coming to his senses shortly after, sure, maybe. But actually taking steps in pursuing it? I don't think that's even remotely possible. I wouldn't look at Guts the same away again, personally.
 
Of course it's going to be difficult for them to redress that. But walking away from the problem and throwing himself into revenge isn't the solution, as the series has already made pretty clear.

If what you're proposing is Guts just considering the easy-way-out possibility of going out on his own, and then coming to his senses shortly after, sure, maybe. But actually taking steps in pursuing it? I don't think that's even remotely possible. I wouldn't look at Guts the same away again, personally.

Yeah obviously what im proposing is not him actually pursuing such an option. Thats out of question for me. I was moreso thinking of a scenario where Guts is battling with the Beast of Darkness and thinking about leaving the Island, but ultimately the boy playing a big role in bringing Guts and Casca together.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah obviously what im proposing is not him actually pursuing such an option. Thats out of question for me. I was moreso thinking of a scenario where Guts is battling with the Beast of Darkness and thinking about leaving the Island, but ultimately the boy playing a big role in bringing Guts and Casca together.
Not sure I understand "battling with the Beast," do you mean something like the vol 23 dream? Anyway, in 290, the Beast said it would lay low and gather its strength for a time when his friends were in the jaws of death, not when Guts is having couple problems.

ultimately the boy playing a big role in bringing Guts and Casca together.
Indeed, that's going to be a game changer for them, and the future of the series.
 
Is Guts aware that the Demon Child's body is being used by Femto? I thought the Skull Knight told him way back when, but I can't remember now. If he does, then what happens if Casca realizes that the Moon Light Boy is her son from her memories as "Elaine"? Shit might hit the fan if Guts sees the boy as Griffith.

*Just a quick edit. Not sure if my memory is right on this, but I think I remember reading from this forum that in an interview, Mr. Miura said a conflict between Guts and Griffith will happen again soon? If its happening soon, and in Elfheim, I wonder if its going to be a short encounter like in the Hill of Swords, or something more bigger, like perhaps an invasion on Elfheim?
 
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Not sure I understand "battling with the Beast," do you mean something like the vol 23 dream?
Yeah something like that. Just a typical scenario of the Beast talking into him how he should leave and pursue revenge now after what happened at the reunion.
 

Victor

"Don't forget your poison arrows"
I've been thinking about the Corridor of Dreams ceremony, and if it could possibly have any implications in the context of the Moonlight Boy/Griffith problem. I'm wondering if the ceremony was introduced and presented the way it was for the sole purpose of curing Casca's mind and nothing more, or if there's a chance it might become relevant again in the maybe not so distant future, or at least the principles behind it. On a conceptual level, it's quite elaborate and probably has more use cases than what we've seen, or at least the magic akin to it does. What Danan says in ep. 347 seems to approximate that:

Danan: Getting deep inside the mind through dreams to observe important yet buried phenomenons and find them a resolution. This is the ceremony of the Corridor of Dreams.
This thought would normally be too shaky for me to regard it as worhty of a post, but I guess I'll just bring it to the table as it is, since we'll soon find out what Miura actually has in mind anyway.
 
Anyone think that Casca unintentionally activating the Beherit traveling with Guts and co. is on the table, whether its from her being unable to deal with her memories resurfacing, or caused by some other event that happens later as a result of her memories resurfacing?
 
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Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
I've been thinking about the Corridor of Dreams ceremony, and if it could possibly have any implications in the context of the Moonlight Boy/Griffith problem. I'm wondering if the ceremony was introduced and presented the way it was for the sole purpose of curing Casca's mind and nothing more, or if there's a chance it might become relevant again in the maybe not so distant future, or at least the principles behind it. On a conceptual level, it's quite elaborate and probably has more use cases than what we've seen, or at least the magic akin to it does.
It's not a crazy thought, but my problem with it is that the Corridor of Dreams is meant to penetrate someone's psyche. It's a psychological tool and it would for example allow Casca and Schierke to enter Guts' mind and see how the trauma he has endured gave birth to the Beast of Darkness.

In the case of Femto and the Boy however, we're dealing with two minds inhabiting one body. Very different situation. From what we've seen, the boy seems to have retained his own soul/spirit (which is why the brand doesn't bleed in his presence). So I feel like that's more of a spiritual matter. And in the same way Schierke couldn't just go into Casca's mind using her astral body, because that's not a psychological tool, the Corridor of Dreams might not the best tool for dealing with that conundrum.

That said, I can envision a scenario where if the boy still can't speak AND Casca doesn't recognize him AND Guts is hopelessly clueless, they could use the Corridor of Dreams to ascertain his identity and learn more about him. Then they might find another mind there, someone else's dreams... dun dun duuuun :femto:. That would be insanely cool.

Anyone think that Casca unintentionally activating the Beherit traveling with Guts and co. is on the table, whether its from her being unable to deal with her memories resurfacing, or caused by some other event that happens later as a result of her memories resurfacing?
I don't think so, and that's not how beherits work. It's not enough to be distressed, you have to be chosen.
 

Victor

"Don't forget your poison arrows"
That said, I can envision a scenario where if the boy still can't speak AND Casca doesn't recognize him AND Guts is hopelessly clueless, they could use the Corridor of Dreams to ascertain his identity and learn more about him. Then they might find another mind there, someone else's dreams... dun dun duuuun :femto:. That would be insanely cool.
I had originally planned to include this same scenario in the previous post, but I ended up leaving it out, because I thought it might be a bit too much. I'm really glad it occured to you as well, I guess that means it's not completely bonkers. Going by the same set of rules used for Casca's ceremony, her and Guts could, in theory, enter his dreams, because he feels close to them, in fact they are probably the only ones who could. This would of course be extremely interesting to see, it would be greatly revelatory for both of them, and if you added Femto to the equation, even more so.

The main problems with this idea that I can see: First of all, the fact that there aren't really any obviously good reasons for them to subject him to the ceremony, other than for curiosity's sake, which I feel is unlikely. Then, there is the uncertainty about how Femto's ego actually coexists with the boy's. They are both sharing the same brain, so from a mental standpoint, this could be something akin to a multiple personality disorder. It would be pretty funny to imagine that somewhere in the deepest parts of the brain there is a dark chamber with 2 chairs where Femto and the Moonlight Boy sit, each awaiting their turn like you often see depicted in other popular media. Maybe it's possible to traverse between the two, maybe not. There is no guarantee they would find out the whole truth, even if they were to explore his dreams.

That's why I wouldn't bet too much on the Corridor of Dreams ceremony being the means by which they find out about his dark secret, but I could see a scenario where they use a comparable type of magic (according to Schierke, the same principle is used for ceremonies that enable magicians to reach deep into the Astral World) to somehow try and combat Femto's spirit, maybe subjugate it temporarily, allowing the boy to take full control for a longer period of time, possibly allowing him to think more freely and even speak (perhaps his lack of speech has to do with Femto limiting him in some way, for obvious reasons). This thought process can go on.
 
That said, I can envision a scenario where if the boy still can't speak AND Casca doesn't recognize him AND Guts is hopelessly clueless, they could use the Corridor of Dreams to ascertain his identity and learn more about him. Then they might find another mind there, someone else's dreams... dun dun duuuun :femto:. That would be insanely cool.
I'm kind of have mixed feelings with this idea. It's certainly a possibility and it seems really interesting to see this play out, but I dunno if Mira would actually go through with something like that considering Casca still has memories of when she was Elaine. But also, maybe it's just me, but it seems like a waste of time to get Guts and Casca to have that revelation through a similar journey Schierke & Farnese had. It would be the same journey as before, but with slightly more significant information. Plus we still have other key characters to address at the moment as well (examples being the Neo Band of the Hawk and Rickert's Traveling Party).

But assuming that this is completely possible, one question that comes into mind is how dangerous the child/Femto's dreamscape would be. Considering that even Casca's dreamscape was dangerous (especially towards the end) and that both the child and Femto's ego coexist within the same body, I would assume that it would be an incredibly daunting task for everyone involved. I'm sure that this would require Guts to go into the dreamscape with Casca tagging along. Because either they accidentally end up in Femto's dreamscape at the beginning, end up going there at one point while traversing the child's dreamscape (which would be the most likely scenario), or it ends up being a fusion of both dreamscapes due to both ego's sharing the same body.

It's an insanely interesting and cool scenario to see play out.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
I had originally planned to include this same scenario in the previous post, but I ended up leaving it out, because I thought it might be a bit too much. I'm really glad it occured to you as well, I guess that means it's not completely bonkers.
I'm kind of have mixed feelings with this idea.
Well the point of my post was that it's really not very likely to happen. I was just describing the only scenario (a convoluted one) in which I could see it make sense at all.
 
Well the point of my post was that it's really not very likely to happen. I was just describing the only scenario (a convoluted one) in which I could see it make sense at all.
Yeah that's true. I just pondered about it being a potential scenario.
 
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