Author Topic: Why did the God Hand let SK go?  (Read 10427 times)

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Offline BLG

Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« on: March 19, 2009, 08:01:34 PM »
Hi everyone! I've been lurking around here for quite a while now. You seem like a pleasant bunch, so I finally decided to register. Hopefully we can have lots of interesting discussions together!

Now, I would be much obliged if we could dig out our volume thirteens and discuss the Eclipse (yes, yet again...).

My question is simply why did the God Hand let Skull Knight escape the Eclipse. Okay, Femto tried out his cool new powers a bit, but apart from that the lazy bastards didn't really do a thing to stop our boney friend. Surely Skully wouldn't have been a match for all five of them! You could of course say that they didn't regard him as a threat, but... come on! The guy's been slaying apostles left and right for a millenium and now he barges into the Eclipse uninvited! I'd say he's a bit of a nuisance to the God Hand. Yet when they're given the perfect chance to get rid of him they just don't care?

So, what do you think?

Offline TheBranded1

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2009, 08:26:23 PM »
The God hand were there for Femto's birth. They said it themselves they weren't expecting Skully to appear and that they are not able to foresee everything. The God hand also compared the skullknight to a fish jumping in the water, even if it jumps the flow still goes. So they didn't care about him because greater things are coming after Griffith's reincarnation and the worlds will merge inevitably.

Offline BLG

Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2009, 08:40:30 PM »
The God hand also compared the skullknight to a fish jumping in the water, even if it jumps the flow still goes. So they didn't care about him because greater things are coming after Griffith's reincarnation and the worlds will merge inevitably.
Well, seeing where the manga is going, I think it is very much possible that Guts / SK will thwart the God Hand's / Griffith's plans (or at least they will try). Then the flow of the river will indeed be disturbed by the jumping fish. I bet they'll wish they'd taken care of SK then. :troll:

I guess what I'm saying is better safe than sorry, right?

Offline Walter

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2009, 08:41:27 PM »
They were hardly given a "perfect chance." The whole event you're referring to happened in a matter of moments. Skull Knight bursts through the eclipsed sun, attacks Void, blocks his own attack, then grabs Guts and Casca and escapes.

Anyway, Skull Knight does have to fend off a slew of apostles. Perhaps the other God Hand didn't see fit to use their powers against him.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2009, 09:25:10 PM »
I'm going with Walter on this one, the whole thing happened extremely quickly and the God Hand weren't expecting it.

What's interesting to me is what happened with Femto as they were escaping. I posted the images in another thread, but the panels clearly show Femto about to try his powers on them (he had already done it once with just SK and missed), but his focus goes to Guts and he appears to hesitate, allowing SK to escape with him and Casca. The next panel then shows Femto looking at his hand with a bit of bewilderment in his eye. It could've been for a number of reasons, but it's interesting to speculate on it.

Oh and welcome to SK.net!

Offline BLG

Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2009, 09:33:54 PM »
They were hardly given a "perfect chance." The whole event you're referring to happened in a matter of moments. Skull Knight bursts through the eclipsed sun, attacks Void, blocks his own attack, then grabs Guts and Casca and escapes.
I'm going with Walter on this one, the whole thing happened extremely quickly and the God Hand weren't expecting it.
So, the members of the God Hand have awesome superhuman abilities but Skully's mad dash is just too fast for them? I find it hard to believe that they didn't have enough time to react.

Offline Walter

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2009, 09:39:38 PM »
So, the members of the God Hand have awesome superhuman abilities but Skully's mad dash is just too fast for them? I find it hard to believe that they didn't have enough time to react.
Do Conrad and Ubik strike you as the quickest trigger fingers in The Nexus? 

And really, if he was truly a direct threat to them, they would have acted accordingly. But, as you can see from the outcome of The Eclipse, they're so drunk with power that they viewed that last act as more of an amusement than anything else. They certainly didn't express frustration that he'd escaped their clutches.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Bekul

Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2009, 09:46:13 PM »
And to what Deci said about Void's apparant hesitation... reaching out on a limb here, it's possible that Void recognized some aspect of the spiral of fate, in that instant - perhaps nudged by the Idea of Evil? Speculation, and I don't remember Void's hesitation (I really should reread that), but... The God Hand themselves, for all their power and apparant free will, are just a tool of Idea.

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2009, 10:14:46 PM »
And to what Deci said about Void's apparant hesitation... reaching out on a limb here, it's possible that Void recognized some aspect of the spiral of fate, in that instant - perhaps nudged by the Idea of Evil? Speculation, and I don't remember Void's hesitation (I really should reread that), but... The God Hand themselves, for all their power and apparant free will, are just a tool of Idea.

I was referring to Femto, not Void.  :slan:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2009, 08:28:52 AM »
Hi everyone! I've been lurking around here for quite a while now. You seem like a pleasant bunch, so I finally decided to register. Hopefully we can have lots of interesting discussions together!

Welcome to SK.net! :SK:

Now, I would be much obliged if we could dig out our volume thirteens and discuss the Eclipse (yes, yet again...).

Hahaha, I haven't dug out a volume to discuss anything in years. :badbone: But aside from that, I'd like to point out that there are many posts on the subject already, some covering the exact same thing you're asking. A search might be useful before making a thread in such cases.

You could of course say that they didn't regard him as a threat, but... come on! The guy's been slaying apostles left and right for a millenium and now he barges into the Eclipse uninvited!

Well he wasn't a threat. Like you said, he's been a bit of a nuisance. But then again, so has been Guts recently, and they didn't care about him either, even though they had a really good opportunity to slay him in volume 3. They don't care about apostles, nor about those slaying them.

Well, seeing where the manga is going, I think it is very much possible that Guts / SK will thwart the God Hand's / Griffith's plans (or at least they will try). Then the flow of the river will indeed be disturbed by the jumping fish. I bet they'll wish they'd taken care of SK then. :troll:

Of course. But it's only possible precisely because they're underestimating Guts and the Skull Knight. Otherwise there'd be no story.

So, the members of the God Hand have awesome superhuman abilities but Skully's mad dash is just too fast for them? I find it hard to believe that they didn't have enough time to react.

Maybe, but it's still what happened. SK's horse moves faster than you think. Sometimes faster than the eye can see. It has super-equine abilities. :slan:

the spiral of fate

There's no "spiral of fate". You're probably talking about causality. Anyway, Void's opinion on what happens at the time is shown to be ambiguous by his reaction to Slan's comments.

Offline BLG

Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2009, 09:47:55 AM »
But aside from that, I'd like to point out that there are many posts on the subject already, some covering the exact same thing you're asking. A search might be useful before making a thread in such cases.

I actually did a quite extensive search before making this thread, but couldn't find much on the subject. I would definitely appreciate it if someone could post a link to a previous thread about this same question.

Of course. But it's only possible precisely because they're underestimating Guts and the Skull Knight. Otherwise there'd be no story.

And really, if he was truly a direct threat to them, they would have acted accordingly. But, as you can see from the outcome of The Eclipse, they're so drunk with power that they viewed that last act as more of an amusement than anything else. They certainly didn't express frustration that he'd escaped their clutches.

Yeah, I suppose this arrogance and underestimation is the reason why they didn't act. But it still seems so stupid, especially knowing that it will almost surely backfire in the future. Well, I suppose the God Hand deserve what's coming for them for being so cocky. :guts:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2009, 02:31:30 PM »
I actually did a quite extensive search before making this thread, but couldn't find much on the subject. I would definitely appreciate it if someone could post a link to a previous thread about this same question.

Well they're kind of scattered around to be honest, not all in one thread. And usually not in threads about that precise topic either. I'd search for you but I don't really have the time right now.

Yeah, I suppose this arrogance and underestimation is the reason why they didn't act. But it still seems so stupid, especially knowing that it will almost surely backfire in the future. Well, I suppose the God Hand deserve what's coming for them for being so cocky. :guts:

I'd like to point out again that SK moved really fast as well. And it matters, because I personally wouldn't say that the God Hand just let him go.

Offline Altmega

Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2009, 09:08:23 PM »
We don't even know what the Godhand are capable of in terms of combat, SK is pretty much as hardcore as it gets (and we havn't exactly seen him try very hard in battle) and probably had a good long think about his chances of making it out of there... he obviously has a plan, we know that much.  That fact that he was 'in and out' rapido suggests he didn't want to hang around for too long. We don't even know what Griffith/femto is capable of really... when he tried to 'Zap' SK he was pretty shocked when he found it didn't work... personally I don't think the Godhand really know what the hell is going on apart from the worlds will merge, they have a new leader and there are some folk doing stuff(SK and Guts) but not actually trying to stop anything from happening.... it's weird, and that's why Berserk is so awsome because we know there's gonna be a equally awsome reason for it all. xD   :chomp: <--- don't feed the dog

Offline Oburi

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2009, 09:51:01 PM »
We don't even know what the Godhand are capable of in terms of combat, SK is pretty much as hardcore as it gets (and we havn't exactly seen him try very hard in battle) and probably had a good long think about his chances of making it out of there... he obviously has a plan, we know that much.  That fact that he was 'in and out' rapido suggests he didn't want to hang around for too long. We don't even know what Griffith/femto is capable of really... when he tried to 'Zap' SK he was pretty shocked when he found it didn't work... personally I don't think the Godhand really know what the hell is going on apart from the worlds will merge, they have a new leader and there are some folk doing stuff(SK and Guts) but not actually trying to stop anything from happening.... it's weird, and that's why Berserk is so awsome because we know there's gonna be a equally awsome reason for it all. xD   :chomp: <--- don't feed the dog


The Femto "zap" did work, it just didn't hit SK. And why do you think the Godhand don't know whats going about...what was it exactly? I get the impression that they are "all knowing", behind only  :idea:

Offline Altmega

Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2009, 10:11:02 PM »
And why do you think the Godhand don't know whats going about...what was it exactly?

what do you mean? mabye I'm being a mong, but I just don't get ya on this part... what was what?

I don't think the Godhand know all because they keep going on about causality which suggests they can only influence certain (mabye alot) of things to happen plus they themselves even state that they cannot foresee all things... like when SK busted Guts and Casca out of the Eclipse/Void place.   There's obviously been at least 5 Eclipses, no human has ever survived, this time two did thanks to SK... there's no way they could have seen that coming unless they themselves influenced it, which would be dumb... why bother?

I looked at V.13 and yeah, Femto does miss... or SK dogged it(my bad), either way he has a good long look at his hand suggesting he's thinking... "how the f**ck did he dodge that?" which indicates a level of surprise.

Offline Oburi

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2009, 11:51:41 PM »
what do you mean? mabye I'm being a mong, but I just don't get ya on this part... what was what?

I don't think the Godhand know all because they keep going on about causality which suggests they can only influence certain (mabye alot) of things to happen plus they themselves even state that they cannot foresee all things... like when SK busted Guts and Casca out of the Eclipse/Void place.   There's obviously been at least 5 Eclipses, no human has ever survived, this time two did thanks to SK... there's no way they could have seen that coming unless they themselves influenced it, which would be dumb... why bother?

Even if they can't foresee some minor events it doesn't matter anyway because of causality. Guts and Casca being saved at the eclipse is just a minor detail that means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. I wouldn't fault the Godhand by saying that
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personally I don't think the Godhand really know what the hell is going on apart from the worlds will merge, they have a new leader and there are some folk doing stuff(SK and Guts) but not actually trying to stop anything from happening
First off, Femto/Griffith isn't the new leader. And the reason they don't try to stop the "folk doing stuff" is because it has no consequence. Slan even states that a few worthless apostles killed doesn't matter to them at all. That shows that they DO know whats going on, they just don't care and up to the point we are at in the manga now, they have been right not to care.

 Also where does it say that no human has ever survived an eclipse before?

Offline Walter

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2009, 06:24:06 AM »
We don't even know what the Godhand are capable of in terms of combat,
We have a pretty good idea of what they can do, though I agree we haven't seen the full extent of their powers. So far, we've seen that they can manipulate and warp matter (see vols 3, 13, 26), bend space (see ep 304), brand humans with something that looks like a spell (vol 12), not to mention all the subtle things they're doing behind the scenes that don't directly relate to combat in the sense you mean. Basically, they're the most powerful beings in the series, minus god.

I'm not sure what else they could show you to convince you they're not beings to fuck around with.  Maybe they could throw a fireball to show their power level? HADOUKEN!!  :ganishka:

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SK is pretty much as hardcore as it gets (and we havn't exactly seen him try very hard in battle)
He fights pretty intensely when against Zodd in vols 12, 13 and 26. There's a big scratch on his shield during the battle at Flora's. That wouldn't happen if it weren't a serious fight.

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We don't even know what Griffith/femto is capable of really...
Yes we do, see first reply above. Admittedly, only recently did we see a new ability of his firsthand, and it's quite impressive.

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personally I don't think the Godhand really know what the hell is going on apart from the worlds will merge, they have a new leader and there are some folk doing stuff(SK and Guts) but not actually trying to stop anything from happening....
Whew... where to begin with this? Here goes... The God Hand have a plan. They are ushering in the age of darkness, of which a critical step is the merging of worlds. I can just about  guarantee you it won't end with just a few legendary creatures showing up. And don't forget they are the "executors of the will of [The Idea of Evil]" according to Flora. They aren't just stumbling around in the dark. They do not have a new leader. Femto is just a God Hand member who has been incarnated into flesh. It doesn't change the hierarchy, and I'm unsure of why you'd jump to that conclusion.  SK and Guts do what they can when they're able in the junction of time. Don't minimize their actions just because they haven't successfully decapitated Void yet. Their opponents are incredibly powerful, and until now didn't exist in the same world. But don't be fooled -- the GH's arrogant ignorance of SK and Guts is likely going to be their undoing.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Altmega

Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2009, 11:22:50 AM »
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the GH's arrogant ignorance of SK and Guts is likely going to be their undoing.

I'm trying to avoid obvious guessing... I'm just going on what I've been given, sure the Godhand are probably as powerfull as gods but we ain't seen much.... what we have seen is them being thwarted a few times by people and things that they never thought possible to do so. You can read the manga a million times and convince yourself of whatever possible conclusions you've come up with but at the moment there's no solid basis to go on which suggests the Godhand know everything that's happening and/or don't care about it, sure they don't care if some apostles die... I know they have a plan, what I'm getting at is that they're looking one way dealing with the plan, and on their blind side, SK and Guts are hacking their way towards something... I'm not knocking their efforts in the slightest, why the hell would I read the manga if I thought the main character was doing nothing?... what they're doing is simply having no effect on the grand scale of things be that to your tastes or not.

Femto/leader thing... there's a few things that lead me to thinking that, why is Femto/Griffith the only one that can exist in both worlds? (have the other Gohand had their turn or something?), Griffith is on a whole "I will be king, I will rule" power trip... so when the worlds merge, he will be the ruler, well...  what about the other Godhand?  Plus his charcter, he has always been the leader... he's the only one that seems to have his own plan, what about the other godhand?  All this makes it seem to me, that he's the boss.   I don't want to start flicking through the manga books looking evidence to support this idea because I'm reading through it all again and it'll spoil it, not done a re-read in a while.

Offline Walter

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2009, 03:01:32 PM »
Griffith is on a whole "I will be king, I will rule" power trip... so when the worlds merge, he will be the ruler, well...  what about the other Godhand?  Plus his charcter, he has always been the leader... he's the only one that seems to have his own plan, what about the other godhand?  All this makes it seem to me, that he's the boss.
Well, think through this step by step. Why was Griffith a critical addition to the God Hand a few years ago? He's charismatic, and led a popular band of mercenaries to end the 100 years war. That's one thing special about him the other God Hand members don't have. He has the support of the people that the God Hand need to tip the scales of the world in their favor. They couldn't put Conrad in the same position.

Griffith was created to be a charismatic leader that will draw entire nations to his call, so that the God Hand can shape the world into something new. Which is exactly what they've done, all with the willing support of the people.

But none of that makes Griffith the leader of the God Hand. He's just been their secret agent, so to speak, all along. Now, he's just opened the gate and let the rest of his crew in, so the real party can begin. And you won't be seeing Void bowing down to Femto.  :void:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline skullnights_pants

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2009, 06:46:14 PM »
what was SK's exact purpose of going to the eclipse, didn't sem like he had a good go at killing the godhand, its almost like he came there to save Guts, but as I see it, even he did not know guts would still be alive at the eclipse, just anothher event of causality maybe, but SK talks big and does bugger all except a swipe here or there!

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2009, 07:09:27 PM »
what was SK's exact purpose of going to the eclipse, didn't sem like he had a good go at killing the godhand, its almost like he came there to save Guts, but as I see it, even he did not know guts would still be alive at the eclipse,

Why do you think he warned Guts about the Occultation ceremony a year in advance? It seems pretty clear he expected him to have survived.

SK talks big and does bugger all except a swipe here or there!

Well the thing here is that one can't just directly oppose causality. Like SK himself says, only at certain times is it possible to act meaningfully/effectively. Whatever you think SK has done, keep in mind no one's done as much as him when it comes to fighting the God Hand. If it weren't for him, Guts & Casca wouldn't even be alive.

Offline Gilgalad

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2009, 05:03:36 PM »
Well this is my first post in 3 years, so i hope i don't suck at it. First off i would like to congratulate the admin for getting a response from Mr. Miura. That has to be the coolest thing ever.

I saw an interesting comment in this thread that sparked a "what if" thought in me. It was Walter's post on july 5th, at the end he says you won't be seeing Void bowing down to Femto. I was thinking if Griffith is close to completing the Idea of evils plan and merge all the realms/worlds into one, then what will the god hand do with themselfs. I would compare them to 5 kids in a sand box, chances are 4 of the 5 will be fine with sharing. But probability would lead you to conclude 1 is gonna want what the others have. Would it not be crazy if the God Hand turned on each other.

Berserk is the greatest epic of our time. So it shall be written.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2009, 05:26:07 PM »
I would compare them to 5 kids in a sand box, chances are 4 of the 5 will be fine with sharing. But probability would lead you to conclude 1 is gonna want what the others have. Would it not be crazy if the God Hand turned on each other.

There's no "chances" when it comes to the Idea of Evil creating individuals so they can serve It.

Offline Gilgalad

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2009, 05:35:02 PM »
so your saying the God Hand are bound to the will of the Idea of Evil, like the One ring is bound to the will of Sauron?
Berserk is the greatest epic of our time. So it shall be written.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Why did the God Hand let SK go?
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2009, 05:39:20 PM »
so your saying the God Hand are bound to the will of the Idea of Evil, like the One ring is bound to the will of Sauron?

Hahaha no, that's not what I'm saying. It's more subtle than that. They were created by the Idea of Evil with the purpose of working together to further its goals. So the probability of one of them betraying the others is quasi-inexistant. Their individual ambitions are complementary.