Poll

Two questions & two votes (do not vote for the same option twice): 1.) Will Guts die by series' end? 2.) If so, will he become like Skull Knight?

Yes, he'll die.
No, he'll live.
He'd become like Skull Knight.
He'd be gone.
Non-applicable, voted no to question 1.

Author Topic: What if Guts dies...  (Read 15588 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9698
  • Karma: 230
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
What if Guts dies...
« on: July 12, 2011, 11:11:14 PM »
What if Guts dies in the armor before the series is over? Except it's not over. Would it matter if Guts died in the armor? I mean, I know it would matter, but would he be finished? Would it be the end, Vortex City? Otherwise, what would the implications be for his humanity? Would he simply be like a human spirit living beyond his time, or something more... sinister? More or less than human. As Flora once said to Skull Knight, "I want to believe that the heart of a man still remains within you." What would it mean for Guts, and what would you think of such a turn?

Online Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15898
  • Karma: 475
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2011, 12:13:58 AM »
I voted that I think he'll live, and so my other vote is non-applicable.

I thought Volume 3 made it pretty clear what would happen to Guts if he were to die: the Vortex of Souls would come to take him down. Wearing Berserk's Armor wouldn't change that.

Gaiseric presumably found a way to survive beyond death, but we don't know if he was in the same scenario as Guts. He might not have been branded, for one. And there's a large unknown factor in what occurred between his presumed death in Berserk's Armor, and ending up in his current armor. To say the same would apply to Guts seems like a leap of faith.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Truder

  • Of the Nexus
  • ***
  • Posts: 613
  • Karma: 9
  • Gender: Male
  • "I frown at Griffith's nipples" -Aazealh
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2011, 12:22:15 AM »
Well.. I definitely cant imagine old-man Guts.  I'm sort of expecting a glorious death! but it will also be a sad one..

Xem

  • Guest
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2011, 12:36:56 AM »
I think he'll live, but it's fun to speculate on what would happen if he died, and how it would happen.

The idea of him living to be an old man seems unnatural for Guts to me, that's for sure. He's been fighting to survive his entire life and seemingly doesn't truly knows how to live by any other means. As he once said to Casca, it's simply not in his nature to run away. For some reason I don't see him dying in the armor. I feel like it's more likely something terrible would eventually happen if he continues to wear it forever and he would end up discarding it before he died in it. Kind of like how Bruce Banner doesn't want to be the Hulk, only Guts can get rid of his uncontrollable side, if need be. If he died, it might even be likely that he'd die because he chooses not to wear it anymore. From there I see the torch of Revenge Champion being passed along to another person though I couldn't say who. His son, perhaps? =)

In the end though, I think he'll live. Guts is a survivor, even he'll admit that there's more than a few times he should've died, but didn't. His will to live is simply too strong and I feel as if that's one of the many messages given to us in Berserk. No obstacle is too great to overcome.

Femto, on the other hand....  :beast:

Offline Rhombaad

  • Old Fart in Training
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 4206
  • Karma: 47
  • Gender: Male
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2011, 01:28:59 AM »
I think Guts is going to live, so I don't think he'll become like the Skull Knight. I just can't imagine Miura killing him off after everything he's gone through (and will go through). I think he'll conquer the Berserk's Armor or learn to live without it, defeat his own inner demons and triumph over Griffith by the end of the series.

Offline puella

  • Gourmet Elf
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
  • Karma: 696
  • Gender: Female
  • Popopopopopopopo!
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2011, 08:12:30 AM »
No, no, no! I don't think Guts will die.
But if I were to imagine it happening, I think the manga would end with that and he'd die as a human being. So he just disappears from the world. Nothing remaining, no after-life.

On a side note, I always wondered what Guts would do if he couldn't fight anymore because of his wounds or just his age. I personally think he'd become a smith, like Godot and would be a good partner to Rickert, who would by then be a successful shop owner.  :guts:

Offline RaWManiac

Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 08:37:04 AM »
I think he will die, as puella said, as a human being, in order to achieve his ultimate goal - Griffith. Somehow I don't see a happy "Hollywood" ending - guts living with casca together, starting a family, etc   :iva:

Offline IncantatioN

  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 3398
  • Karma: 59
  • Gender: Male
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2011, 01:06:58 PM »
I think he'll die by the end of the manga and it'll be closure in terms of his epic journey. Miura isn't scared of having to keep characters alive for the sake of the readers, he'll kill them if they need to be dead (like Oda or unlike Kishimoto). He's good with his story telling and I see a sad yet bittersweet end to the series.
At the end of time, a moment will come when just one man remains. Then the moment will pass. Man will be gone. There will be nothing to show that we were ever here... but stardust.

Offline NightCrawler

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1729
  • Karma: 6
  • Gender: Male
  • Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2011, 03:05:46 PM »
I think he'll die by the end of the manga and it'll be closure in terms of his epic journey. Miura isn't scared of having to keep characters alive for the sake of the readers, he'll kill them if they need to be dead (like Oda or unlike Kishimoto). He's good with his story telling and I see a sad yet bittersweet end to the series.

I can see this happen. I don't want him to be some kind of entity. I see Guts as the most "earthly" character of the manga. I want him to die. He lives by the sword and dies by the sword. He wouldn't have wanted it any differently.
Berserk isn't really "dark fantasy" either. It's plain fantasy
Miura has been very protective of Berserk

Offline Saephon

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 291
  • Karma: 4
  • Gender: Male
  • Die young and save yourself
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2011, 06:00:02 PM »
Half of me says Guts will live and die by the sword; that he can't know any other life. But my heart says he has changed so much and by the end of this thing, a quiet life with Casca would be the perfect end he wants. Also, a glorious death seems like what you'd expect to happen, so I vote that he'll live! Unless Miura expects us to expect him to do unexpected things with the plot and-   *brain explodes*
Saephon:  Being tired of your disingenuous assertions since 2183.

Online Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15898
  • Karma: 475
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2011, 06:17:49 PM »
I'm sort of expecting a glorious death!
I think he will die,
I think he'll die
I want him to die.
Give Guts a goddamned break. He struggles his entire life, and the only closure you guys can see to that is his violent death. You people are depressing...
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline NightCrawler

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1729
  • Karma: 6
  • Gender: Male
  • Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2011, 06:35:55 PM »
Give Guts a goddamned break. He struggles his entire life, and the only closure you guys can see to that is his violent death. You people are depressing...

Why thank you. :serpico:
I don't wish him a violent death, he could go like that badass from The 13th Warrior (not praising the movie, but the music is great in this scene) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nszfem51v4M&#t=03m22s and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nszfem51v4M&#t=04m40s
Berserk isn't really "dark fantasy" either. It's plain fantasy
Miura has been very protective of Berserk

Offline IncantatioN

  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 3398
  • Karma: 59
  • Gender: Male
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2011, 06:41:47 PM »
Give Guts a goddamned break. He struggles his entire life, and the only closure you guys can see to that is his violent death. You people are depressing...
Heh I know I know! It's just something I imagine where he nearly kills off Griffith but can't (because he's either too hurt from battle or because deep down he cannot kill his old friend and has some guilt about his role in Femto's birth) but Casca finishes the job instead, making it a bittersweet end with closure for the both of them. I'm a sucker for sad endings like Gungrave (anime) :sad: or School Days :judo:.
At the end of time, a moment will come when just one man remains. Then the moment will pass. Man will be gone. There will be nothing to show that we were ever here... but stardust.

Offline NightCrawler

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1729
  • Karma: 6
  • Gender: Male
  • Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2011, 06:46:52 PM »
Heh I know I know! It's just something I imagine where he nearly kills off Griffith but can't (because he's either too hurt from battle or because deep down he cannot kill his old friend and has some guilt about his role in Femto's birth) but Casca finishes the job instead, making it a bittersweet end with closure for the both of them. I'm a sucker for sad endings like Gungrave (anime) :sad: or School Days :judo:.

I don't see Griffith dying by Guts hands, and specially not Casca's.
Berserk isn't really "dark fantasy" either. It's plain fantasy
Miura has been very protective of Berserk

Offline jackson_hurley

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1160
  • Karma: 61
  • even the horses are cut in half!
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2011, 12:22:47 AM »
I say he lives. And I'm gonna a little further and say that it would be nice if once in Elfhelm he'd find a magic user powerfull enough to remove the effects of the brand so that when he dies he wouldn't go in the vortex at least and he could just live peacefully with Casca and die of old age. Otherwise I don't think he'll die and like Rhombaad said I think he'll conquer the armor or something in the veins.

Online Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15898
  • Karma: 475
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2011, 01:10:11 AM »
...it would be nice if once in Elfhelm he'd find a magic user powerfull enough to remove the effects of the brand so that when he dies he wouldn't go in the vortex
That sounds like a terrible idea to me. Some magical cure-all for one of the biggest consequences in the series? I fart in the general direction of that notion. Same with the speculation that he'll grow his arm and eye back. We've been over this before elsewhere in the forum, but I don't think Miura's one to go back on his consequences. Guts is a character whose taken the bad things that have happened to him and turned them into strengths. Lose an arm? Now a cannon. Offered as sacrifice to demons? Now you can sense them.

But if it's the Vortex you're ultimately trying to remedy, what if whatever happens in the end of the series, toppling the God Hand and the Idea of Evil's hold over the world, for example, simultaneously disperses that undulating ocean of souls?
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline jackson_hurley

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1160
  • Karma: 61
  • even the horses are cut in half!
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2011, 04:31:01 AM »
That sounds like a terrible idea to me. Some magical cure-all for one of the biggest consequences in the series? I fart in the general direction of that notion. Same with the speculation that he'll grow his arm and eye back. We've been over this before elsewhere in the forum, but I don't think Miura's one to go back on his consequences. Guts is a character whose taken the bad things that have happened to him and turned them into strengths. Lose an arm? Now a cannon. Offered as sacrifice to demons? Now you can sense them.

But if it's the Vortex you're ultimately trying to remedy, what if whatever happens in the end of the series, toppling the God Hand and the Idea of Evil's hold over the world, for example, simultaneously disperses that undulating ocean of souls?

No no no you got me wrong there, what i was saying was just for the fun of it for the topic. What I said in my opinion "could be a idealistic" scenario for Guts. i mean come on we want him to have a better place for his soul to go then the  vortex no? And i didnt have in mind an actual cure for his eye or arm but for something that might be related to magic why not? And I only though of that before Flora said in volume 24 that erasing the power of the brand was beyond her power but what if in Elfhelm there is a magic user powerfull enough? I personnally am not going into that direction myself but hey its speculation nation inst?  :slan:

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18428
  • Karma: 631
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2011, 06:44:56 AM »
Voted that he'd live, so the second question was non-applicable. I'm adamant that he'll never become a "non-human" anyhow, and Miura has said as much in the past. If he were to die at the end of the series, then I don't see what the point of surviving as a supernatural entity would be anyway. It would nullify the dramatic aspect of his death and that wouldn't be the goal.

deep down he cannot kill his old friend and has some guilt about his role in Femto's birth

Some guilt about his role in Femto's birth? What role? Being there? Ugh... Get out of here! :azan:

Offline Theoden

Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2011, 02:13:02 PM »
I believe Guts will die. I really don't have any real things to say to justify what I'm saying, it's just some personal feeling.
I just don't see him surviving throught all of this, even considering what he's been throught since the Eclipse and even before then.

I believe there will be some kind of struggle between Griffith/Femto and Guts, and I clearly don't see how Guts could escape this kind of "fight" alive.
Well that's not clearly what I mean actually : Guts could survive because of many things, for example Femto didn't really want him dead, I even believe
he can't just kill Guts because of something that remains inside his true self, even as a God Hand, so maybe, considering this, he could live.

But I really don't see Guts surviving after all of this.

If he were to die at the end of the series, then I don't see what the point of surviving as a supernatural entity would be anyway.

Like Aazealh said, I agree, If Guts dies, then what would be the point of surviving all of this? Well, I think that If he really dies, it could be some "peaceful" death, I mean, like "freed" from the manipulation of the well known " In this world, destiny is controlled by some transcendantal entity or law ".

So a free Death, out of the destiny cycle of control, is what I see for Guts.

Offline Gobolatula

  • Smooth operator
  • Falconian
  • Of the Vortex
  • *****
  • Posts: 1216
  • Karma: 68
  • Gender: Male
  • praise be to grail!
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2011, 03:22:49 PM »
I don't see him dying solely based on what Skull Knight said. Guts is the "Struggler." He was born from a corpse and is close to death. Thus, he excels at escaping it. I don't have the exact quote in front of me, but I think that's kinda close.

I think there'll be many times where Guts will get beat up pretty bad, but he won't die.

Xem

  • Guest
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2011, 09:50:12 PM »
It's also possible we simply won't know too, like the cowboy riding off in the sunset, though I guess it's safe (usually) to assume he's dead if that happens.

On a side note, I always wondered what Guts would do if he couldn't fight anymore because of his wounds or just his age. I personally think he'd become a smith, like Godot and would be a good partner to Rickert, who would by then be a successful shop owner.  :guts:


I like that idea. It might be like how Guts' treats being the Captain of the Hawks' Raiders now, where he chooses to live outside his own legend as well. I could see that.

Offline OmegaSeamaster

Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2011, 06:46:24 PM »
I personally don't see Miura killing off Guts, since the epic struggle to overcome overwhelming odds is the heart of the story. Plus, if he were to do it, I think a lot of people just wouldn't buy it, no matter how well-done.

My reason for saying this is that death doesn't really become pop-culture heroes, especially ones with long shelf lives. If James Bond were to die in a film, you'd never believe it, no matter how tastefulluy it played out. Bond's only cheated death thousands of times and outsmarted tons of villains. To think that one might finally come out of nowhere and beat him doesn't seem possible. When Captain Kirk got bumped off, people were like, "Seriously? It came down to THAT?"

From volume 1, Guts absorbs all the blows - even ones that would kill most men outright, and he gets right back up. I don't see anyone ultimately beating him, especially when he's pissed off.

When he left the band of the Hawk, Guts wanted to find his own dream and achieve his own goal so as to stand with Griffith on equal footing. Whether he liked it or not, an ultimate goal was assigned to him - though I'm sure he would have preferred another one. I have a feeling that, in the end, Guts will triumph and ultimately surpass Griff.

That's what keeps me reading, anyway!

Offline Oburi

  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
  • Karma: 59
  • Gender: Male
  • All praise Grail
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2011, 05:03:48 PM »
I don't think Guts will die. However, I can't exactly see a perfectly happy ending happening either. Guts has been fighting all his life, I don't think he'd know how to cope with a "normal" life once all his enemies are defeated. It reminds of how soldiers come back from war with ptsd and have trouble relearning how to live in society. With everything Guts has been through, I can't imagine any alternative lifestyle for him. The only thing I can think that might give a glimpse of what Guts' life would be without a mission would be when he lived with Godot and Erica for a year when he left the Hawks.  Although it was very different circumstances, he stayed busy training and... doing other things I suppose. I could see something like that once the war is over. The real question is 'will Casca be there with him? In her proper state'? Because that's the only way I can see Guts settling down.

toey

  • Guest
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2011, 02:11:43 AM »
Hello, this is my first post here.   :daiba:


I think he'll die before the end of the series and become something else.  At the Black Swordsman arc he'd been hit hard several times by the apostles, and that elven dust was enough to cure his injuries, except by the eye and the arm. But since he put that cursed armor his body has been deteriorating pretty fast. He has lots of scars from the battle against Ganishka that didn't disappeared. And Miura has been emphasizing his injuries, specially broken limbs and ribs. I think that these are signs that his body won't last too long and eventually he'll get consumed.

Personally, the idea of him becoming like SK would suck. SK is just too cold! Guts have always been that kind of hot blooded character, that absorbs a lot of hits in the battle, bleeds a lot, then go crazy and crushes everything in the way. And this idea don't fit with an empty armor.


Offline Gobolatula

  • Smooth operator
  • Falconian
  • Of the Vortex
  • *****
  • Posts: 1216
  • Karma: 68
  • Gender: Male
  • praise be to grail!
Re: What if Guts dies...
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2011, 04:48:26 AM »
If Guts becomes anything other than human, it would be in the form of a beast. A wild bloodthirsty animal. But, still... Guts' humanity is such a giant part of him.

Honestly, this fight with the Sea God is going to seriously fuck him up. I can't see his hearing being that great after that giant heart beating in his face. Things aren't looking so hot for Guts as time goes on. His senses of taste and sight have been shown deteriorating. He's gotten thinner and scarred like crazy.

But still, somehow, he'll survive. I'm pretty sure, at least.