Author Topic: Berserk Saga Project News  (Read 784660 times)

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Offline puppet12ca

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2025 on: June 26, 2012, 08:29:56 PM »
Sorry but you're wrong Larme de tristesse (without an apostrophe) means tears. we can say tears of sadness in french. For you can also say Tears of joy.

Edit : Aaz beat me to it! damn it :)

yeah I see where I screwed up my bad though honestly the word larmes is new to me

Offline DirectDK

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2026 on: June 26, 2012, 09:50:42 PM »
Been reading through all the comments about Movie II.  Needless to say, y'all know me as someone who thoroughly enjoyed Movie I, and someone who is steadily looking forward to Movie II and III.  So upon hearing about the omission of Zodd + sword breaking + Casca's bit holding onto the broken sword, amongst other things that are left out (bonfire of dreams, queen), it is all certainly disheartening.  I can't say it's deterred me from watching the trilogy though, as I still think I'm going to enjoy the 200+ minutes of Berserk movie still left for me to watch.

I'm sure some of you might think I'm just bat-shit crazy, but like I said many times before... I see this saga project as a supplementary way of experiencing Berserk.  I agree with you all... there could have been improvements, and yes, there are frustrations about why Studio 4C had to change certain things that were not necessarily related to running time... but I am still excited to see what this trilogy has to offer.

Finally, my friend visited Japan last weekend and saw the movie opening day.  He has never read the manga, but he loves the '97 anime series.  He told me on my Facebook the following things about it.

Quote
"It was magnificent. Better than part 1 (maybe because of the setting, maybe because I got used to the new look already). There were scenes that blew my head wide open from being so much better than the original series (I'm sorry to say). Just a great experience.

I went in having read some negative reviews (which I understand, but I guess Part 1 made me realize I have to treat this on its own terms). But there were a couple of scenes that were superior to the series, having nothing to do with special effects or animation (one was a moment in the 100 man fight). It was just a great accomplishment, and I was stupid lucky to be there to see it."

I know, this is an EXTREMELY positive review about Movie II, and it's coming from a non-manga reader, so I expect most of you not to care.  Even I am pretty darn sure I won't be calling it "magnificent" after I see it, but hey, it's nice to know that some people totally loved it.  I say, good for them!  I hope I will be one of them when the trilogy is completed.  Knowing me, I probably will, heh.




hellrasinbrasin

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2027 on: June 26, 2012, 11:24:09 PM »
Regarding the soundtrack, many tracks are reprisals from the first movie. I wonder if these are variations on the former tracks, or simply repeats.

I haven't bought the 2nd film score yet but past experience with Shiro Sagisu's work has shown that he does do variations of specific tracks. I hope this answers your Q Walter.

Offline CCS

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2028 on: June 27, 2012, 04:03:44 AM »
I get what you're saying, DirectDK. The changes are regrettable but sometimes necessary, and while these movies won't be a masterpiece, they have the potential to be very entertaining and will help to get more people into the manga, especially those who aren't really used to animation enough to notice the traditional to CG switches.

Offline Gordy

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2029 on: June 27, 2012, 11:51:20 PM »
Quote
I'm sure some of you might think I'm just bat-shit crazy, but like I said many times before... I see this saga project as a supplementary way of experiencing Berserk.  I agree with you all... there could have been improvements, and yes, there are frustrations about why Studio 4C had to change certain things that were not necessarily related to running time... but I am still excited to see what this trilogy has to offer.
I agree! I think the same things! This saga project should be seen as a complement to the manga

Offline Slime_Beherit

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2030 on: June 28, 2012, 12:49:32 AM »
A complement? As in the terrible movie really brings out the sheer beauty that is the manga.

I dont see how it's supplemental, that implies that manga is incomplete without it. And from the impressions here, the movie has done nothing but tarnish Berserk

Offline Walter

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2031 on: June 28, 2012, 02:28:02 AM »
I'm glad that some people (one person?) are finding some enjoyment out of the new movie. I don't want to see Miura upset by a failure at the box office for an adaptation of his life's work. But as a discerning fan, I can't approve of what I'm hearing about it. It's progressively becoming less and less recognizable as Berserk. People dig fantasy and medieval stories, sure. I can get behind that. But that's merely the backdrop of what makes Berserk special. And that's not being conveyed in this movie, by the look of it.

I get what you're saying, DirectDK. The changes are regrettable but sometimes necessary,
Necessary to accomplish ... what, exactly? The more I see of this project, the more I question what the goals of it were all along.

Quote
...they have the potential to be very entertaining and will help to get more people into the manga
So this is the answer then. It's meant to be a glorified commercial. Why couldn't they have just called it that to begin with, instead of saying this would be a faithful adaptation meant for true fans of Berserk? If the only perceivable goal with the project, other than to cash in on the series, is to advertise it to newcomers, why not a series of high-budget commercials promoting the manga? I guess because animators need a day job?

I believe there's a fundamental problem: Studio 4°C never grasped what makes Berserk tick in the first place. They're tracing the outlines of a masterwork without understanding what made it great.

I said this on the podcast earlier this week, but my absolute favorite scenes from this segment of the series are missing from the second movie. The Bonfire of Dreams sequence is visual candy. Why wouldn't that have made the cut for a theatrical adaptation? Guts explaining his search for purpose in his life to his friends, on the final night that he's with them? That's a crucial scene to understanding his motivations. Griffith revealing one of his darkest plots with Guts, and him still accepting him as a friend—a moment that ultimately reinforces Griffith's resolve before he makes his decision during the Eclipse... To me these moments are what makes Berserk unique. We don't gather around this forum talking about how AWESUM it is when Guts deflects a sword into a guy's neck while fighting 100 guys.

If you begin lopping off significant pieces of the overall work—an arm here, a leg there—the coroner may be able to identify the remains, but the leftover husk isn't going to be identifiable as Berserk to its loved ones. They're just going to run away horrified when the sheriff unzips the body bag.  :magni:

Offline Bekul

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2032 on: June 28, 2012, 02:38:53 AM »
they have the potential to be very entertaining and will help to get more people into the manga,

Paraphrasing a friend of mine, who knows vaguely about the manga, who I watched the movie with: 'So it's kinda like Braveheart except I don't care about anyone.'

Also overheard: 'When does it start for real though?'

And: 'I thought it was okay, but kind of boring.'

Welp. I offered to lend him some of my collection, because 'the manga is better, honest, for real', but he just squinted at me like I'd offered him moldy cheese and politely declined.

Good job,  Studio 4°C!  :void:

Offline arrowchild

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2033 on: June 28, 2012, 02:46:05 AM »


I said this on the podcast earlier this week, but my absolute favorite scenes from this segment of the series are missing from the second movie. The Bonfire of Dreams sequence is visual candy. Why wouldn't that have made the cut for a theatrical adaptation? Guts explaining his search for purpose in his life to his friends, on the final night that he's with them? That's a crucial scene to understanding his motivations. Griffith revealing his most manipulative moment with Guts, and him still accepting him as a friend—a moment that ultimately reinforces Griffith's resolve before he makes his decision during the Eclipse... To me these moments are what makes Berserk unique. We don't gather around this forum talking about how AWESUM it is when Guts deflects a sword into a guy's neck while fighting 100 guys.

If you begin lopping off significant pieces of the overall work—an arm here, a leg there—the coroner may be able to identify the remains, but the leftover husk isn't going to be identifiable as Berserk to its loved ones. They're just going to run away horrified when the sheriff unzips the body bag.  :magni:

Well said!  

I don't dislike the first movie nearly as much as a lot of people here seem to, (I re watched it the other day and actually found myself enjoying parts of it quite a bit), but I was really baffled by what they chose to omit and what sequences they spent more time on.  It sounds as though the second movie is going to be more of the same.  I would take a few snippets of the Bonfire, the Queen conspiracy and Griffith backstory over ten extra minutes of battle sequences any day, just to have something approaching a complete picture.

hellrasinbrasin

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2034 on: June 28, 2012, 06:08:36 AM »
Welp. I offered to lend him some of my collection, because 'the manga is better, honest, for real', but he just squinted at me like I'd offered him moldy cheese and politely declined.

Good job,  Studio 4°C!  :void:

Well this is what the admins were talking about as the worst case scenario that this project would run potential fans off.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 06:21:13 AM by hellrasinbrasin »

Offline A.C

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2035 on: June 28, 2012, 06:47:54 AM »
The impression I get from the movies, and what I suspected from the start, is that STUDIO 4°C are more interested in/fans of the more recent/contemporary Berserk volumes (i.e. Millenium Falcon, etc) and that's why they put in Farnese, Serpico, Isidro, Schierke, etc in the opening credits and have the cameos in Movie 2. And also why they won't cut out Silat. (I know they cut out Foss, but he didn't really add much in his appearance in Millenium Falcon).

So that might be why they're rushing the early volumes to get to that part faster. They probably don't think scenes like Zodd throwing his sword or the bonfire of dreams, etc, had any lasting impact that are relevant to the contemporary volumes, and the heavy use of bombastic music and action distinctly gives the impression they think the Golden Age is too "boring" and slow that they somehow feel the need to spice it up - projecting their boredom onto the audience. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the director only became a fan of Berserk recently. Older fans of the series, most of whom probably regard the early volumes as the best, wouldn't treat the much praised Golden Age arc this way.

I think they're in a hurry to get to the Millenium Falcon arc and perhaps slow down there. But I suspect they would make the Black Swordsman arc even more abridged than these movies considering Casca and Griffith aren't in it much. Heck, if Miura felt he had to state that he would like to see Black Swordsman next he might've been nervous that they'd actually skip it, which wouldn't surprise me if they did. I mean Black Swordsman is something that naturally should be next, not something that Miura should have to be consulted about, or feel he has to state.
:sad:

Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2036 on: June 28, 2012, 02:33:33 PM »
Well this is what the admins were talking about as the worst case scenario that this project would run potential fans off.

That's a bit of an overstatement and unfair analysis, if you ask me. Everyone who reads the manga doesn't necessarily HAVE TO like it, same with the 97 series or the current movies. One of my pals doesn't like the manga as much (nothing can surpass FOTNS or Akira for him), big deal. People have different tastes. 1 person not liking Berserk is NOT of huge consequence.

By the way, if one has to nitpick that much, the 97 anime was not a good representative of the manga because it didn't cover every emotion or every detail that's in the manga. There's no Wyald fight in that adaptation either among a few other things taken off. But if you watched it without having read the manga, you wouldn't know what's taken out or added in. You like it OR you don't like it for what the adaptation is. I know I liked it, I watched the series first before reading it. At that time, it pulled me into the series and I got around checking out the manga. Today, someone sitting in the audience (new to the series) MAY think the blood is cool or Guts' sword looks cool or Casca's hot or whatever else, and MAY get to reading the series, or may not, who knows. People take certain things from a viewing experience differently which's why we have movies like money making Twilight movies, sequel after sequel despite the terrible story.

Why couldn't they have just called it that to begin with, instead of saying this would be a faithful adaptation meant for true fans of Berserk?

I believe there's a fundamental problem: Studio 4°C never grasped what makes Berserk tick in the first place. They're tracing the outlines of a masterwork without understanding what made it great.

I agree. One of my gripes was the fact that they called it a faithful adaptation when it was far from it. I would've like the OVA route a lot better or even an anime series that ran episodically every week. There's enough content for it. From my lips to God's ears X D
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 02:54:14 PM by IncantatioN »
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hellrasinbrasin

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2037 on: June 28, 2012, 03:22:08 PM »
I have to disagree with you A.C. if it was the intent to adapt each story arc of berserk then Studio 4c has failed in that regard. If it was the intent to present a highlight reel of set pieces then Studio 4c has succeeded in that endeavor. I guess the question that is going to be asked is will the next 3 arcs be treated in the same fashion as The Golden Age Arc was.

Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2038 on: June 28, 2012, 03:51:45 PM »
I have to disagree with you A.C. if it was the intent to adapt each story arc of berserk then Studio 4c has failed in that regard. If it was the intent to present a highlight reel of set pieces then Studio 4c has succeeded in that endeavor. I guess the question that is going to be asked is will the next 3 arcs be treated in the same fashion as The Golden Age Arc was.

Depends on how much profit they made. There might not even be another Berserk arc adapted into anime

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2039 on: June 28, 2012, 04:28:22 PM »
Call me stupid if needed but what is the difference between an Ova and a theatrical release? How could it have been better? Wouldn't an Ova result with the same kind of cuts? (I'm asking for I know fuck all about Ova other then the fact its not a theatrical release) They would still have the time constraint etc no? Please someone shed some light for me!

Offline Dar Klink

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2040 on: June 28, 2012, 04:35:23 PM »
Call me stupid if needed but what is the difference between an Ova and a theatrical release? How could it have been better? Wouldn't an Ova result with the same kind of cuts? (I'm asking for I know fuck all about Ova other then the fact its not a theatrical release) They would still have the time constraint etc no? Please someone shed some light for me!
OVA means "Original Video Animation," it's basically just a straight to dvd release. It's not exactly a movie and OVAs usually have higher budgets than a TV series. A good example of what people would want is the Hellsing Ultimate OVA series. They release them every 6 months to a year and they're forty minutes to an hour long and extremely faithful to the manga in terms of story and art style. I guess the best comparison to make with western tv would be stuff like Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, or other HBO shows which have high budgets, longer running times, and usually better talent working on them.

Pretty much, a theatrical movie has the highest budget but the most risk and runtime constraints, OVA have less budget but still pretty high quality and generally are what most of those shorter yet well-done series come out as (Macross Plus, Gunbuster, Diebuster, FLCL, Record of the Lodoss War,etc), and TV series have lower budgets, come out weekly in seasons of 11-13 episodes or 22-26 episodes, and usually have the most time constraints because of having such a tight schedule.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2041 on: June 28, 2012, 04:41:15 PM »
OVA means "Original Video Animation," it's basically just a straight to dvd release. It's not exactly a movie and OVAs usually have higher budgets than a TV series. A good example of what people would want is the Hellsing Ultimate OVA series. They release them every 6 months to a year and they're forty minutes to an hour long and extremely faithful to the manga in terms of story and art style. I guess the best comparison to make with western tv would be stuff like Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, or other HBO shows which have high budgets, longer running times, and usually better talent working on them.

Pretty much, a theatrical movie has the highest budget but the most risk and run time constraints are also highest, OVA have less budget but still pretty high quality and generally are what most of those shorter yet well animated series come out as (Macross Plus, Gunbuster, Diebuster, FLCL, Record of the Lodoss War,etc), and TV series have lower budgets, come out weekly in seasons of 11-13 episodes or 22-26 episodes, and usually have the most time constraints because of having such a tight schedule.

I see! Thank you for the clarification Dar Klink

hellrasinbrasin

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2042 on: June 28, 2012, 04:54:39 PM »
Doing Berserk as an OVA is the only option on the table as a 3rd adaptation. If it ends up happening I wouldn't mind each volumes story being spread across 2 DVDs. That way you would have under 2 hours worth of content being covered.

Offline SuperVegetto

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2043 on: June 28, 2012, 05:14:49 PM »
Doing Berserk as an OVA is the only option on the table as a 3rd adaptation. If it ends up happening I wouldn't mind each volumes story being spread across 2 DVDs. That way you would have under 2 hours worth of content being covered.

For Berserk to get another adaption, we'd have to wait a while and the producers would have to say similar words to Miura: " Mr. Miura sir, Berserk is a great manga and I love every single detail of it, and I would like to make an anime that covers everything from the manga... not like that previous trilogy " Who knows if he'd accept even after that. He might be very disappointed

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2044 on: June 28, 2012, 05:40:20 PM »
The changes are regrettable but sometimes necessary

Necessary my ass. It's an inexcusable train wreck.

they have the potential to be very entertaining and will help to get more people into the manga

Well the potential sure was wasted in the first movie, we at least know that much. You sound unreasonably optimistic here.

especially those who aren't really used to animation enough to notice the traditional to CG switches.

You mean the blind people.

This saga project should be seen as a complement to the manga

It doesn't complement anything. Brings nothing to the table, and it could be argued that it actually takes away from it.

The impression I get from the movies, and what I suspected from the start, is that STUDIO 4°C are more interested in/fans of the more recent/contemporary Berserk volumes (i.e. Millenium Falcon, etc) and that's why they put in Farnese, Serpico, Isidro, Schierke, etc in the opening credits and have the cameos in Movie 2.

That's a pretty stupid line of thought. If they wanted to do the Millennium Falcon arc, they would have done it in the first place instead of releasing an inferior, truncated rehash of the Golden Age arc. The credits are nothing more than a poorly thought-out (as it spoils later events) load of fan service and aren't an indication of a secret intent or anything. Same goes for the lame cameos.

And also why they won't cut out Silat. (I know they cut out Foss, but he didn't really add much in his appearance in Millenium Falcon).

Nonsense.

So that might be why they're rushing the early volumes to get to that part faster.

They're rushing them because it was terribly stupid to try to adapt the Golden Age arc into a theatrical movie. And I doubt we'll be seeing the Millennium Falcon arc animated anytime soon.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the director only became a fan of Berserk recently.

I highly doubt the director is a fan of Berserk.

Older fans of the series, most of whom probably regard the early volumes as the best, wouldn't treat the much praised Golden Age arc this way.

What a load of shit. It's probably partly because of fatuous reasoning of this type that we're having such a train wreck on our hands.

Heck, if Miura felt he had to state that he would like to see Black Swordsman next he might've been nervous that they'd actually skip it, which wouldn't surprise me if they did.

Don't you understand? They've already skipped it. And for all we know, Miura might have asked for it to be done as a movie first instead of doing the Golden Age arc again.

I mean Black Swordsman is something that naturally should be next, not something that Miura should have to be consulted about, or feel he has to state.

It should have naturally come before. And yeah, Miura shouldn't have had to ask for it.

That's a bit of an overstatement and unfair analysis, if you ask me. Everyone who reads the manga doesn't necessarily HAVE TO like it, same with the 97 series or the current movies. One of my pals doesn't like the manga as much (nothing can surpass FOTNS or Akira for him), big deal. People have different tastes.

Oh, so now your rationalization for why the movie doesn't suck and why people of taste don't like it is that Berserk itself isn't for everyone and people wouldn't have liked the manga anyway? Appalling.

By the way, if one has to nitpick that much, the 97 anime was not a good representative of the manga

It isn't nitpicking to point out that the '97 TV series was mediocre in many respects or that it hasn't aged well. It is a testimony to Berserk's greatness that it was relatively popular despite all of its flaws.

Offline Roderick

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2045 on: June 28, 2012, 06:11:38 PM »
So that might be why they're rushing the early volumes to get to that part faster. They probably don't think scenes like Zodd throwing his sword or the bonfire of dreams, etc, had any lasting impact that are relevant to the contemporary volumes

And those missing Griffith scenes certainly won't have any impact on future volumes  :femto:

But I agree that it seems like the director/writer of these movies seem to have a pretty muddled grasp on what makes the series good and are spending a great deal of time milking the action element of the series in an attempt to hook in audience members to watch it because it has a buff guy fighting big Medieval battles with monsters and lots of blood & gore.  I actually found the first movie nearly passable in the amount of slower character-based scenes,  They're mostly cut to the bone, but they're there.  I may be wrong, but the 2nd feature appears to have these sorts of scenes cut down to an even further degree.

In fact, it's reminding me more and more of the Akira anime adaptation versus the manga.  Much like this movie the theatrical Akira put a strong focus on pure spectacle and action over a vast majority of character or plot depth.  However, even that isn't an apt comparison because that feature looked like a great feature, with its extremely high quality animation and technical prowess.  The Berserk feature length films--unless they pull a rabbit out of their hat with the 3rd feature--only has a marginal amount of scenes that look great while much of it leans heavily on very retrograde 3D modelling giving it the look of a low/lesser budget feature.

hellrasinbrasin

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2046 on: June 28, 2012, 06:12:11 PM »
Taking into account that Studio 4c has thrown 2 characters into The Golden Age Arc that have no reason to be in it I have to wonder if and when Studio 4c does The Retribution Arc that they will insert characters into it that they discarded from The Golden Age Arc.

---

I would have to disagree with you there on the Akira example. Considering that the author Katsuhiro Otomo who wrote Akira also served as director of the film. I would have to consider the film to be a definitive vision of the book. Just as I would consider the 97 Berserk series a definitive version of The Golden Age Arc despite what some in the community will say on the matter.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 06:30:49 PM by hellrasinbrasin »

Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2047 on: June 28, 2012, 06:29:42 PM »
Oh, (1) so now your rationalization for why the movie doesn't suck and (2) why people of taste don't like it is that Berserk itself isn't for everyone and people wouldn't have liked the manga anyway? I'm appalled.
(1) I didn't say the movie didn't suck in my post above ^_^ (2)I was trying to say that just because someone read the manga or watched the 97 series or watched new movie(s) - didn't mean it's an Auto-Like for Berserk. It's a matter of opinion that varies from person to person. In support, I gave a random example of a friend of mine who doesn't share the same enthusiasm as I have for Berserk. I meant to say that it wasn't the end of the world if 1 friend of that user above didn't like it. It's unfortunate (HELL YEAH) but one can't use that 1 instance as a generalization for how everyone new to the series or who's liked the series thus far will feel about it. Sorry if my post was misleading but this is what I meant.

It isn't nitpicking to point out that the '97 TV series was mediocre in many respects ... It is a testimony to Berserk's greatness that it was relatively popular despite all of its flaws.
Lets hope the same can be said about this movie trilogy ^_^! I'm hoping with pots of optimism that people new to Berserk pick up the manga.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2048 on: June 28, 2012, 06:46:20 PM »
Just as I would consider the 97 Berserk series a definitive version of The Golden Age Arc

That's wrongheaded. The TV series is no more definitive that this movie trilogy is; meaning it's not definitive in any way whatsoever. The word of law is the manga. Period.

I was trying to say that just because someone read the manga or watched the 97 series or watched new movie(s) - didn't mean it's an Auto-Like for Berserk.

Then you're completely missing the context of Bekul's post (and the reasons given by his friend for not liking the movie), which is what hellrasinbrasin was commenting on. A post that in turn was a reply to CCS' claim that the movies would "bring in new fans" as if that could somehow offset their innumerable downsides.

Lets hope the same can be said about this movie trilogy ^_^!

I don't think hope is enough at this point.

Offline Roderick

Re: Berserk Saga Project News
« Reply #2049 on: June 28, 2012, 06:47:22 PM »
I would have to disagree with you there on the Akira example. Considering that the author Katsuhiro Otomo who wrote Akira also served as director of the film. I would have to consider the film to be a definitive vision of the book. Just as I would consider the 97 Berserk series a definitive version of The Golden Age Arc despite what some in the community will say on the matter.

Interesting.  That certainly would have lended to the polish and labor of love in relation to that feature, despite the comparatively weaker script.  I also never knew that the feature was released before the manga ended--certaily makes sense in retrospect.