Author Topic: Dark Souls  (Read 70307 times)

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Offline mnedel

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #125 on: September 27, 2012, 06:37:17 AM »
I like games with a good and developed story. For example, of the recent games something like witcher 2.
As for Dark Souls its a great game but I would have liked more story. Some things you can only discover by sheer luck. The poster above says that the only lord left is Gwyndolin but I killed him so... And I accidentally got the alternative ending. After I killed Gwyn, I went back, out of the room. I wanted to dispatch the knights (I ran trough them on route to Gwyn) before finishing the game. But walking out triggered a different ending. A dark ending but there is speculation on the net that this is in fact the good ending. Have to read up on the lore

Online Walter

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #126 on: September 27, 2012, 12:47:57 PM »
I probably missed about 80% of lore in my playthrough being too busy dying, but have found this video to be extremely helpful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Balq4yCcAJg.

Even though Dark Souls has a fantastic story to tell, if I have to read up on lore through a wiki or a goddamned YouTube video to fully understand that story, I'd chalk that up to storytelling failure.

I'm a sucker for this kind of minimalist storytelling, especially in games. The mystery makes everything all the more fascinating and trying to make sense of it from what little you can gather is fun to me. I dunno. :slan:
I like the idea of it too, and I even have respect for their approach. One of my favorite games is Super Metroid, and the way that game's story and actions are conveyed is minimalist and beautifully direct.

Dark Souls wasn't merely minimalist, it was obscure, treating me like I'm simply not cool enough to know about its favorite indie band. "Oh, there's a god still living in Lordan, but you've probably never heard of him." It wasn't effective at all. I imagine about 5 percent of the people who played this game fully understood the story. That's not a good number. That's simply wasted potential. And while I think there's plenty of room to leave players to hunt down obscure knowledge about certain characters' backgrounds without dictating it like most games do, I think it's a travesty that some of the coolest information in the game—essential knowledge—is shrouded by obscurity.
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Offline TheBranded1

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #127 on: September 27, 2012, 03:46:15 PM »
I agree on the story part Walter. I hope some of the NPCs had more to say instead of hunting someone else down for it to trigger something, how about beating a boss too. I wasn't too fond of the covenants either, I think there were too many, maybe if they were for specific classes, but anybody could join them all and then just switch to the next one once you got what you wanted out of them. This is nitpicking now, but I would have liked a specific weapon for every class, you know some secret weapon stashed somewhere that used to belong to that class and was unique and no other class could use. Did you check the painted world of ariamis? Finally, which serpent did you choose Frampt of Kaathe?

Online Walter

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #128 on: September 27, 2012, 04:03:52 PM »
I wasn't too fond of the covenants either, I think there were too many,
Not only too many, the benefits were always elusive. They also never explicitly state that you can leave and REJOIN a covenant, which is, ya know pretty crucial information in a game that autosaves on every decision. I stuck with the Princess' Guard most of the game, happily, since I wore Silver Knight armor for everything after Anor Londo. :stalwart: :azan:

Quote
Did you check the painted world of ariamis?
Yep, and I went through the whole thing just dying once (hilariously, too—wheeled skeleton out of nowhere). Not bragging, just saying I found that area pretty damned easy compared to the rest of the game. Truly beautiful though.

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Finally, which serpent did you choose Frampt of Kaathe?
Well, I never encountered Kaathe—never even heard of him until I looked it up—since apparently you can only see him if you go straight to the Four Kings directly after you get the Lordvessel. I did a few other things first (from memory, I did Seathe, Four Kings, Nito and then the Bed of Chaos). It's yet another experience the game gleefully deprives you of for just not being in-the-know enough.
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Offline Proj2501

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #129 on: September 27, 2012, 04:15:06 PM »
Well, I never encountered Kaathe—never even heard of him until I looked it up

Same here. I'll be starting NG++ just to visit him and get all the goodies he has to offer. Does anyone know if I'm in the middle of a game and I download the upcoming DLC, if I'll be able to play if I've already met the prerequisites to unlocking these areas? Please tell me I don't have to start with a brand new character just to see the DLC... (I've spent 178 hours on my one character)I'm hoping I'll be able to access everything and have the DLC recognize which level NG+ I'm on and simply work.

Online Walter

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #130 on: September 27, 2012, 04:17:24 PM »
Same here. I'll be starting NG++ just to visit him and get all the goodies he has to offer. Does anyone know if I'm in the middle of a game and I download the upcoming DLC, if I'll be able to play if I've already met the prerequisites to unlocking these areas? Please tell me I don't have to start with a brand new character just to see the DLC... (I've spent 178 hours on my one character)I'm hoping I'll be able to access everything and have the DLC recognize which level NG+ I'm on and simply work.
Dunno about an existing character, since no one's encountered that particular issue yet, but as long as you have the Lordvessel you should be able to access the new areas.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Proj2501

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #131 on: September 27, 2012, 04:20:18 PM »
Dunno about an existing character, since no one's encountered that particular issue yet, but as long as you have the Lordvessel you should be able to access the new areas.

I wonder if From Software has released anything regarding this? I'm sure it's been taken into consideration. ...Right? :sad:

Walter, aside from Gwyn, what area in the game gave you the hardest time out of curiosity?

Online Walter

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #132 on: September 27, 2012, 04:23:42 PM »
Walter, aside from Gwyn, what area in the game gave you the hardest time out of curiosity?
As far as areas, I'd say ... hm, I think the early game stuff was the most challenging. Mostly because you're still learning the game at that point, so everything seems more difficult. Playing through with a new character, I found it super easy, of course. Ah, I also remember dying a LOT in the Forest because I would try to take on too much at once (Forest Guardians + 3 of those ents, lol). New Londo could be annoying with those stupid ghosts before you learned to be just be very careful around them.

Again, so much of the game's challenge is just getting over the learning curve necessary to truly engage with it. After you become competent with the game's rules and comfortable with your weapon choices, it's a matter of being cautious and smart in combat.

But as far as bosses, the Capra Demon and Gwyn were the toughest for me. Capra Demon because of his stupid fucking dogs that would leave you open to an attack unless you did some very specific, lucky manuevering. And that early in the game, I didn't feel total mastery over the controls yet. Looking back, the fight isn't tough. But at the time, it was overwhelmingly intimidating to me. I died the most against Gwyn (at least 15 times in a row). Iron Golem to a lesser extent, but not because he was particularly tough. I was just getting cheesed by him, even though I was putting up a fine fight. I'd have him dead to rights, every encounter, nearly finished, but then I'd mistime a roll, so I'd have to block an incoming blow and the impact would send me flying 10 feet back, off the tower to my death. Over and over. It was so frustrating that I nearly cried  :judo: In retrospect, pretty funny  :ganishka:

My personal difficulty ranking, in terms of the experience and equipment set I had when I faced the bosses, goes something like this:

1. Capra Demon
2. Gwyn
3. Iron Golem
4. Hydra
5. Sif
6. Stray Demon


Those last two fights required basic memorization of patterns and tells, like no other fights in the game, but by the end of that process they were mere fodder. None of the others were really too tough for me, or made me frustrated. Though I probably died at least once against every single boss except for Moonlight Butterfly, Pinwheel and Ornstein & Smough (which was my biggest victory in the game, as far as I'm concerned).
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Proj2501

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #133 on: September 27, 2012, 04:33:55 PM »
I'm really surprised you beat Ornstein and Smough on the first try. I was really using ALL the wrong equipment when I first encountered them. I'm talking over 30 tries man. My hands have never been so sweaty. I only beat them on my first playthough by summoning players and even then, Ornstein grew huge and literally fell out of the room. Read that again. Yup. Some glitch happened and we all stood around in the room doing the idk-shrug to one another, then we saw VICTORY and got the souls. On NG+, I figured out what was what and that fight really isn't so bad. But...on your first try, you got some skill there son.

Offline Draculoid

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #134 on: September 27, 2012, 04:54:55 PM »
Man Orstein and Smough were literally impossible for me without summoning help, I'm so impressed about you beating it your first try! Then again the Iron Golem was one I got on my first try and I love that about the game. With the Hydra I got it on about my third or fourth try with my first character and then it took me a million on my second do to different skills. There's just so much depth in the design of the bosses and creatures and the combat system.

Currently on 1-4 of Demons Souls and having troubles with a certain dragon :/
Where did I go wrong? I’ve got a sneaking suspicion it ain’t over. A kindred connivance, I’m ripped and in ruins

Online Walter

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #135 on: September 27, 2012, 04:57:11 PM »
Ornstein grew huge and literally fell out of the room. Read that again. Yup. Some glitch happened and we all stood around in the room doing the idk-shrug to one another, then we saw VICTORY and got the souls.
:ganishka: I had something similar happen to me just last night while en route to Gwyn once. While dodging the knights, one of them leapt on my head while trying to do a leap attack and goomba stomped me. For a few seconds, his character model flipped out, while my guy kept grunting and taking tiny damage (fall damage from the knight?), then I fell through the world into a mass of trees underneath—YOU DIED. I figured under all that ash would be dragon bones or something instead of just trees.  :void:

Quote
But...on your first try, you got some skill there son.
Thanks, but I don't actually think I'm very good at the game. If only you could hear all of my embarrassing stories of failure that Aaz has heard nearly every morning since I started playing this game :farnese:

I attribute part of the victory to luck—I had some narrow escapes, and used 2 humanity to refill my life (and charge Queelag's sword). I also had read that this was one of the most frustrating fights in the game, so as soon as I saw them, I knew to put on my LET'S DO THIS face.  :daiba: Imagine all the effort you put into a fight over 30 tries, I really put everything I had into this ONE fight, so much that toward the end, failure simply wasn't an option. I probably would have stopped playing the game or something, that's how I felt at the time. In the end, I don't think I've ever felt as satisfied with a game victory.
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Offline Oburi

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #136 on: September 27, 2012, 05:50:39 PM »
I'm really surprised you beat Ornstein and Smough on the first try. I was really using ALL the wrong equipment when I first encountered them. I'm talking over 30 tries man. My hands have never been so sweaty.

Same for me! Although I didn't end up summoning anyone. After about 30 tries I finally beat them on my own. My heart was beating so fast it was truly a great moment.

I was guiding my friend who was on his first play through and by the time he got to that fight I had built it up so much that he was so terrified. He was one of those lucky shits that also beat it on his first try. Yet he did die several times fighting the Iron Golem and wolf Sif, which I beat on my first try. The game is just weird like that. Sometimes you rape, sometimes you get raped. Either way, the boss fights are always awesome.

Offline Proj2501

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #137 on: September 27, 2012, 06:45:11 PM »
Ha. I'm imagining you guys intensely playing this game. "Hey hun-" "NOT NOW DAMMIT!"

I had to tell my fiance this is the only game in the world you can't pause, so she doesn't bother me when she sees it on. (Training early :carcus:) She occasionally sees me die over and over, watches me rage and asks me if I enjoy playing a game that "makes you so mad". I told her it's a love-hate thing.  

PvP in this game. Man, when you find a good bunch to play with, it's really a good time. Occasionally you get the tool who just fucks around. I met one guy needed someone to PvP with. I stuck with him and we were really chopping a good amount of phantoms down. I was wondering how/why we kept getting phantoms. I haven't gotten invaded for months now when playing alone. In fact, as I type this, I can't even see people's summon signs lately. Thoughts? And yes, I try to always play in human form.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #138 on: September 27, 2012, 08:11:38 PM »
Man, that ending sure was brief!

Old school. =)

Does relighting the kiln of the first flame simply repeat the cycle that Gwyn started?

Pretty much.

What the hell happened that created the Demon Ruins and Lost Izalith? The Bed of Chaos? Some of that stuff was just super, SUPER weird.

What Cyrus said. The Witch of Izalith was awesome, but she couldn't control the chaos she'd created.

This game left me totally drained by the end, in the best possible way. It's one of the most unique game experiences of my life. And while it was satisfying, after nearly 60 hours of toiling in a series of nightmare zones, I can't believe they throw you back in a New Game + scenario right after the ending credits. What kind of masochist do they think I am?

What about all the lore you missed?! :slan:

The only major complaint I have is that the story feels like a missed opportunity. There's plenty to say about the world itself, but so much of it is buried, having to be pieced together by reading item descriptions and in a few cases, equipping certain items at certain times.

That's what makes it cool to me. It's completely consistent with the rest of the game. It rewards effort, both when it comes to combat and story. It doesn't give anything away too easily. Old school design. =) That's why I like the game so much. The coolest piece of lore to me has to be Artorias, by the way. Which is why I'm so excited by the DLC.

I imagine about 5 percent of the people who played this game fully understood the story. That's not a good number. That's simply wasted potential.

How many Berserk readers fully understand the story? Ok, that's a cheap shot. :ganishka:

Well, I never encountered Kaathe—never even heard of him until I looked it up—since apparently you can only see him if you go straight to the Four Kings directly after you get the Lordvessel. I did a few other things first (from memory, I did Seathe, Four Kings, Nito and then the Bed of Chaos). It's yet another experience the game gleefully deprives you of for just not being in-the-know enough.

It's meant to be a secret. You're expected to find it on subsequent playthroughs, when experimenting new things. Same with everything else, NPC side stories (that can be very different ways sometimes), etc.

I attribute part of the victory to luck—I had some narrow escapes, and used 2 humanity to refill my life (and charge Queelag's sword). I also had read that this was one of the most frustrating fights in the game, so as soon as I saw them, I knew to put on my LET'S DO THIS face.  :daiba: Imagine all the effort you put into a fight over 30 tries, I really put everything I had into this ONE fight, so much that toward the end, failure simply wasn't an option. I probably would have stopped playing the game or something, that's how I felt at the time. In the end, I don't think I've ever felt as satisfied with a game victory.

There's one thing to take into account too: you had Queelag's sword, which is one of the best weapons to have to fight Ornstein. I didn't know it at the time of course (and you didn't either), but he's resistant to lightning and weak to fire, meaning going at him with a lightning based weapon is a lot more difficult.

Offline Breed1Ghost

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #139 on: September 27, 2012, 11:30:30 PM »
This game is now 20 bucks I think I will get it.

Offline Proj2501

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #140 on: October 03, 2012, 12:55:44 PM »

Online Walter

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #141 on: October 03, 2012, 01:24:00 PM »
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Proj2501

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #142 on: October 03, 2012, 05:58:23 PM »
Still, you have to hand it to the guy for pulling it off. Pretty certain that was on a first play through.

Just got my Faith up to 30. Sunlight blade is pretty nasty on a Silver Knight Sword +5. Especially for PvP.  :daiba:

Online Walter

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #143 on: October 03, 2012, 06:36:10 PM »
I'd like to start a character based on faith and dex or str. The guy I finished the game with ended with like, 8 faith. So that whole tree of abilities wasn't used. I pumped nearly everything into dex and end/vit.

Right now I'm playing through New Game+ and just mopping the floor with bosses. Sailed through from beginning to Sif in under 1.5 hours. Even though the bosses are scaled up a little, they're still no match for me at this point... I should probably just start a new character.
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Offline Dar Klink

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #144 on: October 03, 2012, 07:47:04 PM »
My character right now is Dex + Int. Using the Crown of Dusk + Bellowing Dragoncrest Ring = one shots on almost every normal enemy with Soul Spear or Great Heavy Magic Arrow. Can't wait till I get Crystal Soul Spear. :ganishka:

It sucks not upgrading vit though, I get oneshotted by almost everything, I don't wanna give up those dex/int points though!

Online Walter

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #145 on: October 03, 2012, 08:53:23 PM »
It sucks not upgrading vit though, I get oneshotted by almost everything, I don't wanna give up those dex/int points though!
Damage isn't super important in this game, imo. You can always whittle down any enemy with patience rather than super-strength. Getting one-shotted is definitely a problem. I think Vitality and Endurance are more important than damage.
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Offline Proj2501

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #146 on: October 05, 2012, 04:54:25 PM »
Damage isn't super important in this game, imo. You can always whittle down any enemy with patience rather than super-strength. Getting one-shotted is definitely a problem. I think Vitality and Endurance are more important than damage.

Agreed. I've gotten my Vitality up to 38. Endurance is at 40. Intelligence is 50. Faith is 30. Most spells and miracles I can use, so I'm trying to get my vitality way up.

Walter, if you're going to focus on Faith in the future, get a miracle called Wrath of the Gods from Reah. It has really helped level the playing field in terms of PvP for me. I was used to spawning and having that done to me over and over until I died. It's nice to be able to fight fire with fire. Also, try and get your Faith to 30 to use the Great Lightning Spear. I feel so badass when I manage to kill an invader with one of these.

Offline Dar Klink

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #147 on: October 10, 2012, 08:22:54 AM »
Who are your favorites boss fights? For me it's Artorias, Ornstein/Smough, and probably Sif. Although Sif makes me feel like shit when he starts limping and can't even properly do his spin attack, especially after the DLC content with him. :sad:. Artorias was just exhilarating as fuck though, it's nice to fight a humanoid enemy who is so relentless. It also makes me think of what a Berserk Armor Guts fight would be like. :schnoz:

Offline Breed1Ghost

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #148 on: October 12, 2012, 12:35:13 AM »
I am finding it really hard to get into this game. I dont know why I really liked Demon souls but just cant get into this as much as I want to.

Offline Jaze1618

Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #149 on: October 12, 2012, 01:34:38 AM »
How far have you gotten into it? Where have you been so far?