Episode 337

Aazealh said:
So I can see him letting it fly for that reason; accepting Rickert's response as his punishment for sacrificing the band and enabling the continued pursuit of his Dream.
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:femto: "I'll let this one slide." :femto:
 
I hold Berserk in extremely high regard and yet I continuously get impressed. Wow.

Some spitballing: if we presuppose that it was in fact the bakiraka who knocked out those guards in the previous episode - wouldn't it make sense for them to be (attempting to) spying on Griffith and thus also witness this event?
 
The full episode is even better then I imagined; I'm glad that everyone else was able to witness Griffith getting slapped, I also wonder how this will play out. I don't remember exactly, but since Charlotte has been rescued from the tower way back when, she hasn't ever questioned how Griffith is back right? I know they all had the dream, and with her feelings of delusion it makes sense she would dismiss it at the time but I wonder now. I also think Sonia will end up finding Rickert somewhere in the city and ask him about what transpired and his past, she is always the curious one and it seems that would occur.
 
Rickert keeps that pimp hand strong. I knew he'd stand his ground and give Griffith what for... :schnoz:

Got to love Miura for subverting everyone's expectations once again. Who honestly saw that one coming? Serves us all right for doubting the little guy! And it was made all the sweeter by Charlotte, Locus & the rest of Griffith's groupies watching on.
 
This was just great. Sonia is hilarious, and I think it's interesting seeing Griffith, Charlotte, and Co. sitting down to tea. It's all just so pedestrian, especially after the previous exposition of the "underbelly" of Falconia's inner sanctum. I think it's a nice juxtaposition illustrating the duality of Griffith's persona. I thought Rickert's and Girffith's approach had just the right amount of increasing tension, and then BOOM, that trifecta of double-page spreads was just fantastic!

I think this is an excellent moment to switch POV, but I'm really interested in what comes next for Rickert and Erica.
 
Miura's comment this time is that he opposes the raise of Japan's consumption tax to 10%. He feels that it will harm the publishing industry.
 
I know this is a slap-worthy question, but I wonder just like Griffith: did Rickert have the Falcon of Light dream like the others?
Probably? But he's not controlled by the Falcon of Light because he knows the real Griffith.
 
Doc said:
I wonder how the old Griffith would've reacted to Rickert's affront? My guess is probably not much differently.
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It's hard to compare since the old Griffith never stood in a similar position. I mean not only does he deserve Rickert's anger (a fact he's knowledged on the Hill of Swords), but he's also in such a powerful position that this kind of affront, as you put it, is rather meaningless. So I think it's a lot easier for him to forgive something like this now than it would have been back when he was still vying for power as a man.
 
Aazealh said:
It's hard to compare since the old Griffith never stood in a similar position. I mean not only does he deserve Rickert's anger (a fact he's knowledged on the Hill of Swords), but he's also in such a powerful position that this kind of affront, as you put it, is rather meaningless. So I think it's a lot easier for him to forgive something like this now than it would have been back when he was still vying for power as a man.
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That's true, Aaz. I was trying to imagine a scenario wherein Griffith had achieved his dream at the expense of the Falcons but retained his old personality. I do think that in either case Griffith would've kept up appearances as the magnanimous ruler before his subjects instead of having Rickert sent to the gallows. However, it would be difficult to call Griffith's mental state if his previous feelings for Guts & Casca had been leftover. Granted, Neo-Griffith has a connection to the pair of them but we all know that's the demon child's instincts, not his own ego.
 
Doc said:
I was trying to imagine a scenario wherein Griffith had achieved his dream at the expense of the Falcons but retained his old personality. I do think that in either case Griffith would've kept up appearances as the magnanimous ruler before his subjects instead of having Rickert sent to the gallows.
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Well I think that's a tall order. What old personality are you referring to exactly? Because the change Griffith underwent wasn't only through his rebirth as Femto. His fall as a mortal man had already changed him as well, which is part of why he chose to sacrifice them.
 
Aazealh said:
Well I think that's a tall order. What old personality are you referring to exactly? Because the change Griffith underwent wasn't only through his rebirth as Femto. His fall as a mortal man had already changed him as well, which is part of why he chose to sacrifice them.
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I don't need to tell you that Griffith's feelings for Guts were extremely complicated right up to the moment he uttered "I sacrifice...", as captured in that final expression of his. If THIS Griffith had been reborn, albeit with the all the powers of a God Hand, there's no guessing how he would feel about Rickert's outburst. But that Griffith is long gone, and what we've got now is Femto wearing Griffith's mask, which while convincing to most people, cannot fool those who knew him best. I was thinking out loud, s'all, and not making any kind of commentary on the scene in and of itself.
 
Doc said:
If THIS Griffith had been reborn, albeit with the all the powers of a God Hand
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But that Griffith was reborn with the power of a member of the God Hand. He was reborn as Femto. You're confusing the notions of "rebirth" and "incarnation".
Anyway, I think you're trying to have your cake and eat it with this hypothetical situation, so I'll agree with you: there's no guessing how it would go.
 
Aazealh said:
But that Griffith was reborn with the power of a member of the God Hand. He was reborn as Femto. You're confusing the notions of "rebirth" and "incarnation".
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Nah, I know the difference between the two. I was merely entertaining the idea of Griffith retaining his original self, or elements thereof, whether it was during the Eclipse or the Occultation ceremony.

Something I'd be interested to know people's take on, is whether Femto is essentially affecting Neo-Griffith, or whether Neo-Griffith is 'programmed' to act this way? I'm guessing that because he can seemingly switch to Femto mode at will, that would be suggest the former. However, Femto obviously doesn't have complete control over his new form because of the demon child's instincts - and the as yet unrevealed nature of the Moonlight kid.
 
Doc said:
Nah, I know the difference between the two. I was merely entertaining the idea of Griffith retaining his original self, or elements thereof, whether it was during the Eclipse or the Occultation ceremony.
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But... he has retained many elements of his old self. Femto is not a completely different being from Griffith. He was born from him. Also, "Eclipse" and "Occultation ceremony" refer to the same event.

Doc said:
Something I'd be interested to know people's take on, is whether Femto is essentially affecting Neo-Griffith, or whether Neo-Griffith is 'programmed' to act this way? I'm guessing that because he can seemingly switch to Femto mode at will, that would be suggest the former.
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:???: For all intents and purposes, the Griffith currently standing in the garden is Femto. When we say Femto was incarnated into a new Griffith, it means Femto, who existed as an immaterial being, became a being of flesh. He acquired a corporeal form, a living and breathing body. One that coincidentally looks exactly like his former one did, before he became a member of the God Hand. So it's really not a matter of Femto affecting Griffith like a puppeteer or Griffith being pre-programmed like an automaton. Femto came down to the world at the end of volume 21. Femto walks among men. And he's calling himself Griffith.

That is why Griffith can change his appearance to that of Femto at will. They're one and the same.

Doc said:
However, Femto obviously doesn't have complete control over his new form because of the demon child's instincts - and the as yet unrevealed nature of the Moonlight kid.
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The boy's interference is a separate thing. It was originally his body, after all. But that doesn't impact the Femto/Griffith relation I just talked about. When Griffith felt the boy's influence in volume 22, he knew immediately what was going on. He knew those weren't his thoughts.
 
I love Rickert!

He's turned out even more awesome than I had hoped for, it almost makes me tear up. Really just had looked forward to getting cool perspective for inside Falconia and now I just want to follow him for as long as possible! Slapping the damn King and "savior"? Yes sir! If we had an emoticon for the man I'd be using it right now. Can't wait to see where things go from here. :guts:
 
The digital edition of this issue of Young Animal is now available for purchase online at: http://www.hakusensha-e.net/vtop?id=3414

As always, the quality is a significant improvement over what's available, because these images bypass the printing and scanning process:

337.jpg


Cost: about $3.

Instructions: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14329.0
 
Aazealh said:
But... he has retained many elements of his old self. Femto is not a completely different being from Griffith. He was born from him. Also, "Eclipse" and "Occultation ceremony" refer to the same event.
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Occultation Incarnation Ceremony. That's what I SAID.

Aazealh said:
:???: For all intents and purposes, the Griffith currently standing in the garden is Femto. When we say Femto was incarnated into a new Griffith, it means Femto, who existed as an immaterial being, became a being of flesh. He acquired a corporeal form, a living and breathing body. One that coincidentally looks exactly like his former one did, before he became a member of the God Hand. So it's really not a matter of Femto affecting Griffith like a puppeteer or Griffith being pre-programmed like an automaton. Femto came down to the world at the end of volume 21. Femto walks among men. And he's calling himself Griffith.
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That's what I intimated originally, that Femto is simply putting on an act. Because the bearing and manner of Femto & Neo-Griffith are expressly different. It's interesting that you believe it to be that simple. I would like to see this explored further on here. I believe this was something Griff (ze SK member) was getting at earlier, as to whether Neo-Griffith really is just Femto in a different skin, or whether it's a little (or much) more complex than that. I'm not really in the position to take a stance either way and defer to the authorities.
 
Doc said:
as to whether Neo-Griffith really is just Femto in a different skin
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This "Neo-Griffith" stuff isn't necessary, and reminds me of posts in the 2002-era. Does he really need three names? When you say "Griffith" now, everyone knows who you're talking about.

Anyway, I don't know how it could be anything but what you postulated above. They are the same being, and we've known that for years. But recently it was underscored for readers when we saw him (between pages) transform into Femto, and then back into the Griffith suit. And of course he acts differently as Femto in the most shadowy places than he does as Griffith when surrounded by humans. He's playing the part of the savior for them.

While it's interesting to consider, I believe the question you're really getting at is: Did his new physical body bestow features he didn't have as Femto. And my answer remains: No, I don't think so. Certainly none have been exhibited apart from those which I account for above, other than an apparent fondness for cake (which we can't exclude as something Femto didn't also enjoy behind the scenes! :guts:

I don't want to speak for him, but this is where Griff and I have historically disagreed. He believes there are too many variables to say with any certainty what the properties and limitations are of this new body. I concede Miura has kept us out of Griffith's head since the incarnation, which leaves the door open for new developments on that end. But other than the already stated, and technically anomalous, relationship with the demon child and Griffith, I don't see any difference between the personalities and actions of Femto and Griffith. One may say that "well, he smiles now." But he also flashed a cold smile as Femto. When his guard has been down, as when speaking with Guts, he acted more or less exactly as Femto had in Volume 3, only with a different body.
 
Doc said:
That's what I intimated originally, that Femto is simply putting on an act.
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Is that so? I must have missed it.

Doc said:
It's interesting that you believe it to be that simple. I would like to see this explored further on here.
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What I find interesting is your wording here, which seems to imply that I just hold a belief that is unsubstantiated. But the story's pretty clear on that front... To be honest I'm not quite sure what's confusing you. For example, I don't think Griffith's behavior is at all incompatible with that of Femto. On the contrary, he seems quite distant and expressionless most of the time, as if nothing really touched him. Very similar to Femto.
 
Nice episode. I think its safe to assume that this is a good note to leave on and transition to Guts. I am really stoked to see Guts and company arrive at Elfheim. I don't believe it is unlikely that once Guts finishes his business at Elfheim, he will travel to Falconia and encounter Rickert there once again.
 
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