Author Topic: Better Call Saul  (Read 17820 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline XionHorsey

Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2015, 08:38:03 PM »
Quote
SAUL GOODMAN SERIES STARTS OUT ALREADY BETTER THAN BREAKING BAD

Well, I wondered about that, but I still find it hard to believe that Breaking Bad could be topped. Then again, this is only the third episode and it was quite clever! "Bingo was his name-o!"

Offline Kaladin

  • Falconian
  • Of the Interstice
  • *****
  • Posts: 255
  • Karma: 63
  • Gender: Male
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2015, 10:13:04 PM »
I love it so far, i agree that it starts out better than Breaking Bad, not sure if it will beat out breaking bad by the end though lol but i really hope it stays going at the pace that it's going in now, REALLY hyped for the next episode. Nacho is awesome, he's Vass from Farcry 3  :ubik: :ubik: :ubik:

Offline NightCrawler

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1728
  • Karma: 6
  • Gender: Male
  • Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2015, 02:05:20 AM »
Not much to say at this point, but in terms of style and structure, i'm enjoying this more than BB, even if it's not as "entertaining".
Berserk isn't really "dark fantasy" either. It's plain fantasy
Miura has been very protective of Berserk

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9696
  • Karma: 229
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2015, 05:00:11 AM »
I haven't had a chance to watch the new episode yet. Busy week  :sad:

:daiba:

Well, I wondered about that, but I still find it hard to believe that Breaking Bad could be topped. Then again, this is only the third episode and it was quite clever!
I love it so far, i agree that it starts out better than Breaking Bad, not sure if it will beat out breaking bad by the end though lol but i really hope it stays going at the pace that it's going in now
Not much to say at this point, but in terms of style and structure, i'm enjoying this more than BB, even if it's not as "entertaining".

I think the secret to its early success is its proximity to BB; it basically is just the next season of Breaking Bad from a production team standpoint. Except they got to start over from scratch as far as the plot goes, which had to be refreshing as well as challenging, but its basically the same team, working with the same world, still in rythem in their prime (as opposed to 5, 10, or 20 years later). So, given that, it's not surprising how well structured, polished, and clever it's been so far (I love the "Here's Johnny!" reference at the beginning and end of the episode; almost two totally different references with different meanings in different contexts in the same line, and I didnt even notice at first, brilliant). I don't think it's better than Breaking Bad's first three episodes by a long shot though. For one thing, those first three episodes aren't just the first three episodes, they're a complete story arc. So, while the overall quality may be better here, and for whatever flaws and rough edges early BB had, the concept and physical, mental and emotional fireworks in that first three episode arc are almost unbeatable, "What about the soul?" "There's nothing but chemistry here."

I'm just excited that Saul has a chance to get there, and to have more fun along the way.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 05:15:32 AM by Griffith »

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15887
  • Karma: 470
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2015, 11:58:26 AM »
I actually really didn't like Episode 3, and it sort of fell into the trap I feared at the outset. The writing was pretty weak this go-round, dialogue included, and fell into an almost crime procedural rut.

SAUL GOODMAN SERIES STARTS OUT ALREADY BETTER THAN BREAKING BAD

OMG IS IT TRUE!? Discuss. Or you could just discuss the excellent third episode on its own merits. You guys are worrying me. :griffnotevil:
Well, now that you're asking  :griffnotevil: I don't think it did.  The key differentiation being that there's not nearly as much at stake for Saul's story as there was for Walt's. The drama is further lessened by the fact that we know he somewhat lands on his feet, even though we're missing the details of what his character arc is from A to B. Walt's future was always uncertain.

Not saying I'm not enjoying the ride overall, but this episode reminded me that even though this show has a strong pedigree, it could skirt the tropes of procedurals until I just don't care anymore.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9696
  • Karma: 229
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2015, 09:39:04 PM »
I actually really didn't like Episode 3, and it sort of fell into the trap I feared at the outset. The writing was pretty weak this go-round, dialogue included, and fell into an almost crime procedural rut.

Well, I disagree on the writing (not sure what you're expecting, it's on par with average Bad to me, just not among the greatest hits of course), and I don't really see the procedural thingjust yet because that was basically one scene that was just as much The Big Lebowski as CSI, while the show has otherwise had almost NO structure week-to-week thus far. I guess you're worried that because of that it could still take on such a structure? Mike working as his detective on cases, etc (yeah, like even that'd be bad =).

Well, now that you're asking  :griffnotevil: I don't think it did.  The key differentiation being that there's not nearly as much at stake for Saul's story as there was for Walt's. The drama is further lessened by the fact that we know he somewhat lands on his feet, even though we're missing the details of what his character arc is from A to B. Walt's future was always uncertain.

Saul's future is also uncertain. :carcus: Also, did he really land on his feet? He's trying to go legit and be respectable, he obviously doesn't make it, and some bad things are no doubt going to happen along the way that contribute to that (think The Golden Age arc =). Also, it's not like we were legitimately afraid Walt was going to die episode to episode even if he was in such danger it seemed unbelievable he'd get out of it (which they can still do, because it's the getting out of it that's interesting), though I acknowledge when Tuco threatened his fingers, I obviously already knew they'd come out intact. I think we kind of have to suspend that feelings along with our disbelief, but it's also on them to make it interesting and suspenseful otherwise. So far, I'm impressed. I wasn't even a big fan of Saul before, but I like Jimmy.

Not saying I'm not enjoying the ride overall, but this episode reminded me that even though this show has a strong pedigree, it could skirt the tropes of procedurals until I just don't care anymore.
This is a little premature, since I wasn't able to finish watching the first episode yet. But five minutes in, I immediately regretted throwing shade on this show when it was first announced :farnese:

Looks like that was premature. Good to have you back, Debbie Downer. :guts:

We need to do a Better Call Saul "odd couple" podcast where I'm overly enthused about everything and you're overly cautious. And if you do get bored of the show just let me know and I will alert you when the inevitable "Mike episode" happens.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 09:54:42 PM by Griffith »

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15887
  • Karma: 470
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2015, 02:09:28 AM »
Well, I disagree on the writing (not sure what you're expecting, it's on par with average Bad to me, just not among the greatest hits of course), and

There were a few scenes toward the end where the dialogue and major action was so predictable that it was close to cringe-worthy, for me (from the interrogation room to the desert sequence, in particular.) There's nothing smart or clever about any of those scenes. For those 15-20 minutes, it was standard television schlock. And I can't remember that happening for me with Breaking Bad.

Quote
I don't really see the procedural thingjust yet because that was basically one scene that was just as much The Big Lebowski as CSI, while the show has otherwise had almost NO structure week-to-week thus far. I guess you're worried that because of that it could still take on such a structure? Mike working as his detective on cases, etc (yeah, like even that'd be bad =).

It was more than one scene. They played the tried and true "cops don't know what they're doing so lets bring in the oddball lead character who will rescue the situation" card that's used in every terribad USA network show.

Quote
Saul's future is also uncertain. :carcus: Also, did he really land on his feet? He's trying to go legit and be respectable, he obviously doesn't make it, and some bad things are no doubt going to happen along the way that contribute to that (think The Golden Age arc =).

Sure, and I'm interested in that transformation, but that tension is just about all the show has going for it at the moment.

Quote
Also, it's not like we were legitimately afraid Walt was going to die episode to episode even if he was in such danger it seemed unbelievable he'd get out of it (which they can still do, because it's the getting out of it that's interesting), though I acknowledge when Tuco threatened his fingers, I obviously already knew they'd come out intact.

More than life or death, Walt was living a double life. There were constantly circumstances where he could have been discovered, which would jeopardize his family life, professional life or actual life. Saul starts out this season on the ropes to begin with, and we have the luxury of knowing where he'll land, so there's just not the same level of suspense to propel the drama.

Quote
Looks like that was premature. Good to have you back, Debbie Downer. :guts:

It probably was, since I haven't been very impressed with the show since that first episode.  But it's not like I'm giving up... I'm just calling it out for what I felt was a particularly bad episode. I did the same for True Detective, even when I was enamored by it.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9696
  • Karma: 229
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2015, 11:27:28 PM »
There were a few scenes toward the end where the dialogue and major action was so predictable that it was close to cringe-worthy, for me (from the interrogation room to the desert sequence, in particular.) There's nothing smart or clever about any of those scenes. For those 15-20 minutes, it was standard television schlock. And I can't remember that happening for me with Breaking Bad.
It was more than one scene. They played the tried and true "cops don't know what they're doing so lets bring in the oddball lead character who will rescue the situation" card that's used in every terribad USA network show.

 :rickert:

First of all, WHOA, below the belt on poor old Saul. Secondly, any 20 minutes of TV with Jonathon Banks telling a Philly story isn't that bad. Thirdy, Breaking Bad was plenty predictable (mostly because it heavily foreshadowed and didn't cheat the audience) and had plenty of the same material you'd see in television schlock, but just because it shared common traits doesn't mean that's all it was, and it's the same here (really, it's Monk or The Closer now?). Also, if you don't remember any TV schlock in BB you must have been grabbing a beer during all those breakfast scenes the first two seasons. Or the klepto sister subplot. Or the twins in season 3 (climaxing with the ridiculous fight with Hank). Or a half dozen other cheesy "filler" episodes and subplots in the first three seasons that were done well, but weren't transcendent television by any means. Even Gus' seemingly omniscient cool-customer act, and just about everything about Jessie Pinkman through the shows entire run save for Aaron Paul's performance. It's all genre material on some level and if one were so inclined they could tear it to shreds for that, or appreciate that it's being done on an entirely different level (if Saul's a cheesy USA network police procedural where he uses one-liners to solve crimes by the end of season 2, I owe you a coke =).

Sure, and I'm interested in that transformation, but that tension is just about all the show has going for it at the moment.

Not the words of a man enjoying the ride; you are the dad that hates roller-coasters that's waiting for the bolts to come loose and for everyone to die. :ganishka:

More than life or death, Walt was living a double life. There were constantly circumstances where he could have been discovered, which would jeopardize his family life, professional life or actual life. Saul starts out this season on the ropes to begin with, and we have the luxury of knowing where he'll land, so there's just not the same level of suspense to propel the drama.

I completely agree, it can't touch Breaking Bad, even just the first three episodes, but that's because BB turned everything up to 11 from the very first scene. If Saul tried to do that... it would smack of imitation to me (that was the part of the Tuco encounter that made me the most nervous, so I'm glad the show doesn't have the same body count or that his brother's affliction isn't the same kind as Walt's). They have the luxury of being able to do a slower burn this time, and they still didn't make us wait long for some remarkable events in episode 2, which immediately segued to some very promising setup in episode 3. That's what I think was so interesting about that episode, none of it was the payoff, it was just setup for what's potentially coming next now that the money is out of the bag.

It probably was, since I haven't been very impressed with the show since that first episode.  But it's not like I'm giving up... I'm just calling it out for what I felt was a particularly bad episode. I did the same for True Detective, even when I was enamored by it.

I think you're watching the show through Bad-colored lenses in more ways than one. It's not great yet by any means, but so far, so good, though you're so zeroed in on what's perceivably unworthy you're missing the fun; Jimmy's unbelievably shitty office/living space in a nail salon, the cucumber water, his robot sex voice tube, Mike's knowing little speech about how nobody wants to leave home that's enhanced by what we already know about him (:sad:). It's not Breaking Bad, it's not transcendent television, but it is fine for now.

Also, we're only three episodes in. :???:



UPDATE: Make that 4.

Well, that was mostly fun, definitely more in line with the comedy mission statement, though I don't know if it's more or less indicative of what the show is supposed to be (it's been different every week), or if this is the best or weakest episode by that standard, but it's certainly the most different from Breaking Bad, and more like it's own animal. My wife certainly liked it best and felt it was more in line with what was promised.

Highlights:
- The "S'all Good, man" flashback. They always seem to get the job done with these, whether it's just for their own sake, or setting the table for the rest of the episode. Just when I thought Wally was right and the writing is coming from "buttholes" I realize I've been conned (and it wasn't the last time).
 - "You're the kind of lawyer guilty people hire." If only Jimmy and the Kettlemans realized that's exactly what they need! Pretty much the founding principles for Saul Goodman laid out here. Even Saul doesn't know it yet though, since he's still trying to offer hard work and dedication instead of more of his gift for grift that's allowing them to return to civilization out of handcuffs. Only strange thing here is why he didn't force the issue and essentially blackmail them into being his clients along with the "retainer" (not that I mind being wrong about that, they're not much more interesting than props). Anyway, maybe that's a bit too aggressively evil for Jimmy at this point, "It's just showmanship!" All for the greater good. *nods*
 - Liked his moment with Mike (though let's get Mike out of the literal and figurative token booth already), especially his not very self-aware lament about depressingly stupid criminals (he's sure going to regret finally meeting the ones smarter than him). Also his speech standing up to Nacho was solid; Saul's got balls. I can't help but feel this will all have consequences that are even more horrible than Nacho even intends. Speaking of which, for a moment I thought Hamlin might get offed by Nacho's goons mistaking him for the Saul on the billboard. I think my comedy radar is still set to Bad mode, "They're gonna murder the wrong guy, hilarious!"
 - The call of the bright pink/orange shirt. =)
 - Kim is pretty interesting overall, and wanted to go see a showing of John Carpenter's The Thing with Jimmy!? Should have put a ring on it, Saul.
 - I'm embarrassed to admit the crane con actually got me despite all the obvious signs. Maybe I don't have as much faith in the show as I boast since I was taking that cheesy act of happenstance and heroism at face value, "This seems rather out of character for Saul..." I'm a rube.
 - The world from Chuck's point of view, juxtaposed with his neighbor's. Oh, and his dedication to overpaying for stealing the newspaper. Poor Jimmy, he has the wrong brother.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 11:44:04 PM by Griffith »

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15887
  • Karma: 470
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2015, 04:36:42 PM »
Good episode! I really enjoyed seeing Saul trying to clean up his act, and of course that's revealed to be part of another con. Seeing him eye the colors he'd eventually adopt was a nice touch -- Is he just not there yet?

Still though, I'm not feeling any dramatic elements. There's just not much at stake here. So the story can only be "fun" for now.

The delivery on Mike's "we can't all be as blessed as you" was dead-on. :ganishka:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9696
  • Karma: 229
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2015, 11:43:05 PM »
Good episode!

Well, I... oh... you think so? Nevermind... :farnese:

I really enjoyed seeing Saul trying to clean up his act, and of course that's revealed to be part of another con. Seeing him eye the colors he'd eventually adopt was a nice touch -- Is he just not there yet?

That's kind of an interesting prequel tension at this point, is the show, at least the prequel continuity, over when he becomes Saul, or could he become Saul at any time and then we'll simply see his continuing adventures as Saul up until the point that the show gets canned or they go out gracefully on their own terms? The latter would allow them to both cleverly tie it off right at the point Breaking Bad is supposed to begin, or even run concurrently (!); either the same situations from Saul's POV or what he was doing while he wasn't meeting Walt and Jessie. Man, I hope the show doesn't end with him becoming Saul! Another weird sequel tension, what if the show goes beyond Breaking Bad in length? It's not inconcevable since, especially on an episode to episode basis, BB was technically only 5 seasons (6 for practical purposes).

Still though, I'm not feeling any dramatic elements. There's just not much at stake here. So the story can only be "fun" for now.

It's there, at the corners, but yeah, they haven't escalated things enough yet or really much at all since Tuco. Nacho has potential, and I'm sure something will come of it all soon, but by the first episode of Breaking Bad Walt was already a down on his luck 50 year old science teacher working at a carwash with an accidentally pregnant wife and cancer who started cooking meth and ended up gassing two dealers trying to kill him before attempting suicide and shootout with the authorities. Yep, that was episode numero uno, folks!

On the other hand, if anyone wants to compare Saul favorably to Bad, re-watch any of the season 1 Minisodes... on second thought, don't under any circumstances.

The delivery on Mike's "we can't all be as blessed as you" was dead-on. :ganishka:

Can't wait for the Mike episode.

Offline Groovy Metal Fist

Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #60 on: February 27, 2015, 12:24:56 AM »
I wonder just how much they're going to do with Omaha. Will there only be brief glimpses? Or will you have a storyline unfolding at multiple periods of time like True Detective?

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15887
  • Karma: 470
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #61 on: February 27, 2015, 01:27:20 AM »
Well, I... oh... you think so? Nevermind... :farnese:

What can I say, I'm a fairweather fan of this show  :carcus: Really, episode 3 just fucking sucked, and I called it out for it. Eat it, Gilligan!

Quote
Man, I hope the show doesn't end with him becoming Saul!

That would be my bet for the show's arc.

I wonder just how much they're going to do with Omaha. Will there only be brief glimpses? Or will you have a storyline unfolding at multiple periods of time like True Detective?

Given the pace set in every other episode but the first, I'd say very little. Maybe something big for the season finale. Maybe not.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9696
  • Karma: 229
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2015, 07:25:42 PM »
What can I say, I'm a fairweather fan of this show  :carcus:

Well, happy to have you aboard this week. It was just a really likable episode.

Really, episode 3 just fucking sucked, and I called it out for it. Eat it, Gilligan!

Your adamance astounds me; I feel like I've entered the "No Spin Zone" here. I'm checking into your sources on that last episode. =)

That would be my bet for the show's arc.

I mean, that makes sense as an origin story, especially considering for him to reinvent himself as we knew him the current cast would need to be shed. On the other hand, he's already pretty close, and there's no reason they can't be there and shocked by the transformation in the beginning.

I wonder just how much they're going to do with Omaha. Will there only be brief glimpses? Or will you have a storyline unfolding at multiple periods of time like True Detective?

Well, the story "unfolding" in the present time period was them sitting in a room telling the stories of the past time periods until it caught up, so unless Saul just starts narrating it's not going to be like TD. =)

Given the pace set in every other episode but the first, I'd say very little. Maybe something big for the season finale. Maybe not.

Yeah, there could be an intermittent flashforward here and there, but it could really just be the series opener tying it to the end of Bad and that's it. I think it depends on how the show does too, obviously. I think that second season was probably based on it looking good, but also giving Gilligan and co a little breathing room so they can let the story go where it goes without worrying about whether they're going to get cut off mid-sentence. Now, say season 1 really tapers off in the ratings before the end; they might want to come up with a satisfying stopping point for the conclusion of season 2! =) Kind of like season 4 of Bad where they didn't know if they would be back or not.


UPDATE: Just when the Saul show was feeling too lethargic, the beginning of the Mike show sucked me back in.

Offline XionHorsey

Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #63 on: March 04, 2015, 08:52:35 PM »
Oh god, that toilet. That talking toilet. CREEPY.

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9696
  • Karma: 229
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #64 on: March 10, 2015, 04:53:02 AM »
Mike.

Offline XionHorsey

Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #65 on: March 10, 2015, 07:40:57 AM »
Yes, Mike. The Mike show and I'm loving it!

Offline Kaladin

  • Falconian
  • Of the Interstice
  • *****
  • Posts: 255
  • Karma: 63
  • Gender: Male
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #66 on: March 10, 2015, 02:30:47 PM »
by far the best episode yet.

Offline Gobolatula

  • Smooth operator
  • Falconian
  • Of the Vortex
  • *****
  • Posts: 1214
  • Karma: 63
  • Gender: Male
  • praise be to grail!
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2015, 01:55:05 AM »
You know, I can't recall exactly which interview this is from, but back when Breaking Bad was going on, Jonathan Banks was talking about Mike's hypothetical past. He said something along the lines of, "In my actor's heart, I think Mike lost a son." I wonder if that's where Vince got the idea.

Fantastic episode.

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15887
  • Karma: 470
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2015, 01:23:43 PM »
The Mike Show was Saul at its best, so far.

Ironically, even though this episode distances itself from Saul's troubles, my favorite scene was when Mike and Saul were working together in the interrogation room. Dialogue was hilarious, and the interplay between those two is just great to watch. I honestly thought they'd wait a little longer before dishing out Mike's complete backstory, but here it is, laid out on a silver platter.

I also really admire how well they've tied the two ends of Mike's story together -- his devotion to his granddaughter, elaborated on in BB, is built on his perceived failure as a father to his son, revealed in this episode. And though we hear more from him than ever before, there's still more left unresolved, which makes me think this wasn't just a one-off Mike focus but the start of a kind of secondary narrative.

:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Grail

  • Spanish Inquisitor
  • Falconian
  • Of the Vortex
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
  • Karma: 161
  • Gender: Female
  • Is it future, or is it past?
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2015, 05:22:52 PM »
I count myself among the folks who were pretty skeptical about this show before the first episode. At this point, it's just about on-par with the original for me, and now I'm very glad to admit that I was probably wrong to wonder if it would be nearly this good. I just didn't expect it to make me so sad! Wasn't this show supposed to be a light drama?! :judo:

You know, I can't recall exactly which interview this is from, but back when Breaking Bad was going on, Jonathan Banks was talking about Mike's hypothetical past. He said something along the lines of, "In my actor's heart, I think Mike lost a son." I wonder if that's where Vince got the idea.
I really hope this is true! Jonathan Banks, as fantastic as he was in Breaking Bad, showed off a lot more of his acting ability in this episode. Vince and the rest of his writing team did a smart thing if they deferred to him. It actually reminds me of a funny part in one of the behind-the-scenes interviews, where Jonathan was on the set for his last episode and talking about how he disagreed with the decision to have Mike abandon his granddaughter to escape the cops. I would say that this past episode reinforces that sentiment, though I guess you could argue either way.

Ironically, even though this episode distances itself from Saul's troubles, my favorite scene was when Mike and Saul were working together in the interrogation room. Dialogue was hilarious, and the interplay between those two is just great to watch. I honestly thought they'd wait a little longer before dishing out Mike's complete backstory, but here it is, laid out on a silver platter.

I loved that too! Though I feel bad for Jimmy, he's trying so hard to keep everything above board, but can't seem to keep himself from "slipping" back into his old habits!

I also really admire how well they've tied the two ends of Mike's story together -- his devotion to his granddaughter, elaborated on in BB, is built on his perceived failure as a father to his son, revealed in this episode.

True. I was just thinking afterwards how you can go back and watch Breaking Bad with so many new layers of Mike's character to think about. His relationship with Jesse got me thinking as well. And of course, there's Mike's death. When I watched that episode originally, I was so sad thinking that his granddaughter would never get to see him again. But on the other side of that, maybe Mike was relieved, and wondering (perhaps against his better judgement, since he didn't seem religious) if he'd get to be reunited with his son in death. Now that's Berserk levels of retroactive emotional fuckupery, right there.

I almost felt a bit spoiled by this most recent episode. Mike has always been a show-stealer, but it was overwhelming for me to see him get so much attention! In retrospect, it felt a little fan-servicey in parts (Mike's final monologue very much recalling his famous "half measures" speech to Walt), but maybe it's still too early to judge. As a huge Mike fan, this episode was a treat.

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15887
  • Karma: 470
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2015, 05:34:09 PM »
In retrospect, it felt a little fan-servicey in parts (Mike's final monologue very much recalling his famous "half measures" speech to Walt), but maybe it's still too early to judge.

I also got that impression, but it didn't bother me too much. The way that final moment is shot, and the delivery of the line, came across as a little too heavy handed for what was actually being expressed ("But can you live with it?")
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline XionHorsey

Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #71 on: March 12, 2015, 12:14:44 AM »
"I broke my boy." :(

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9696
  • Karma: 229
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #72 on: March 12, 2015, 08:31:46 AM »
Like the show, it looks like we're getting the gang back together in here! Nice of you guys to show up for the Mike episode. :carcus:

Anyway, I quite enjoyed it as well, and like Wally I especially liked the natural Saul and Mike back and forth. It kind of exposes the relative disparity in chemistry with the other regulars, so hopefully that improves as they develop or these two just spend a lot more time together. As for the rest, I had some nitpicks with some of the dialogue early on and skepticism that it was as meaninful as it was purporting o be, but overall it was very solid and would have fit right in with Bad (given Saul's role, and Kaylee's size (!?), it really could have just been a random Bad episode ala Salud). One thing I didn't have a problem with...

I also got that impression, but it didn't bother me too much. The way that final moment is shot, and the delivery of the line, came across as a little too heavy handed for what was actually being expressed ("But can you live with it?")

That line actually grew on me from the standpoint that its not just her knowledge or secrecy concerning his actions, but the meaninglessness of it all for them both; the "just" outcome and knowing the truth doesn't actually satisfy or change anything, like Mike alluded to in the beginning, "That's all there is to it." That question pretty well gets to the core of Mike at this point.

Side note: I hate the whole "but is it fan-service?" second guessing with everything now, as if that's some valid criteria in and of itself (we can't just like enjoyable things without questioning it anywhere =). First of all, the whole premise of this episode is, and y'all wouldnt like it so much if you weren't unabashed Mike fans. Second, I don't think two very different, contextually appropriate scenes of a good character just talking, about different things for different reasons, constitutes "fan-service" in the pejoritive sense; which should theoretically be something inherently gratuitous, stupid or otherwise wrong. This is more like "fan-neurosis"; just enjoy the show and stop worrying if it's alright to already. :iva:

"I broke my boy." :(

 :judo:

Yeah, if the capper was a bit contrived, that was the line that resonated most. God, the delivery during that whole scene. Showed us a new/deeper side without fundamentally altering/betraying the chatacter. Very impressive.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 02:53:10 PM by Griffith »

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15887
  • Karma: 470
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #73 on: March 12, 2015, 02:28:00 PM »
Side note: I hate the whole "but is it fan-service?" second guessing with everything now, as if that's some valid criteria in and of itself (we can't just like enjoyable things without questioning it anywhere =). First of all, the whole premise of this episode is, and y'all wouldnt like it so much if you weren't unabashed Mike fans. Second, I don't think two very different, contextually appropriate scenes of a good character just talking, about different things for different reasons, constitutes "fan-service" in the pejoritive sense; which should theoretically be something inherently gratuitous, stupid or otherwise wrong. This is more like "fan-neurosis"; just enjoy the show and stop worrying if it's alright to already. :iva:

I think it's a feeling specific to sequel shows like this, so it's a relatively new phenomenon. They run the risk of relying on nostalgia or past accomplishments to elicit emotion from viewers rather than treading new ground and earning that emotion genuinely. I don't think this episode does that, necessarily. I was just responding to the final moment feeling a little heavier than was warranted.

Also, seriously Kaylee's age. What were they thinking...? Are we to believe that this is just 1 year before BB?
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9696
  • Karma: 229
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #74 on: March 12, 2015, 03:58:27 PM »
I think it's a feeling specific to sequel shows like this, so it's a relatively new phenomenon. They run the risk of relying on nostalgia or past accomplishments to elicit emotion from viewers rather than treading new ground and earning that emotion genuinely. I don't think this episode does that, necessarily. I was just responding to the final moment feeling a little heavier than was warranted.

Also, seriously Kaylee's age. What were they thinking...? Are we to believe that this is just 1 year before BB?

It's being applied pretty liberally to anything these days; soon Guts won't be able to swing the Dragon Slayer without it being fan service (people we're verging on it when Guts was mowing down trolls and ogres like it was just another day at the office, and of course any time bewbs are depicted, but at least there's objective criteria there to debate).

The Simpsons is probably the most prominent example/offender, perhaps the reason people are sensitive to it in the first place and why it's associated with low quality. I'm sensitive to it because it's now my dad's criticism du jour when he doesn't have a legitimate critique to make otherwise. That's basically my bitch, it just doesn't matter in and of itself, something's qualitativley good or bad regardless of whether it falls under the subjective definition of fan service. In this case I think it has more to do with our obsession with Mike than the writers' intent to recreate the half measures moment (it really just means you and Grail didn't completely buy it =). Of course, why wouldn't they want to keep creating great moments and build on the stories they've told? They're certainly doing that intentionally and that's not cheating.

Though, continuing Mike's story with his grandaughter seemingly in the present or beyond the constraints of time certainly is! Maybe she has that disease like the kid from The Middle or they're immortals like Highlander (hope you cut his head off, Walt). Clearly the Bad/Saul crew just needs to stay away from references to time altogether, before a 40-year-old Aaron Paul inevitably appears as "14-year-old" Jessie Pinkman. :ganishka:
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 06:39:11 PM by Griffith »