Author Topic: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?  (Read 4668 times)

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Offline DANGERDOOOOM

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As we have seen from the beginning of the entire series, Guts struggled putting up a fight against Femto. Ignoring the fact that he was exhausted with most likely some broken ribs, he ended up losing with a bat of the eye by Femto. But a few things have changed from the beginning of the manga till now, which should make their next conflict interesting.
 
Guts is now in posession of the Berserker armor, giving him the ability to ignore the pain he receives from Femto. Since Femto apparently is able to warp space and objects to his will, it will prove to be a challenge for Guts. But as we've seen with Skull Knight's encounter with Femto in the Eclipse, the Skull Knight was able to quickly maneuver out of the way of Femto's apostle meatball. Considering Guts can move with Inhuman speed in the armor, this should be cake, he just can't slip up. Or else :magni:

Also Femto now has been reborn into the world with the help of Guts and Casca's demon child as some sort of vessel, (and correct me if im wrong) giving him slight affections for Guts. If I recall correctly he thought he felt a slight heartbeat from his heart during his encounter with Guts.

Anyways, just want to know how you guys think Guts will fair against Femto if they were to fight again with the current state of the story.

Offline Pink-Dark-Boy

Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2016, 04:47:59 PM »
"He now exists beyond the reason of the physical world, where no one in the mortal realm can threaten him. It would be akin to someone in a story challenging the one who wrote it. It cannot be done. To stand and confront the Falcon... One must also exist outside the story" - Skull Knight

Going off this description alone, Guts stands no chance at all currently.

Offline DANGERDOOOOM

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Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2016, 06:04:27 PM »
"He now exists beyond the reason of the physical world, where no one in the mortal realm can threaten him. It would be akin to someone in a story challenging the one who wrote it. It cannot be done. To stand and confront the Falcon... One must also exist outside the story" - Skull Knight

Going off this description alone, Guts stands no chance at all currently

Ah yes, very good point.

So let's just say if Guts were to strike Femto with the Dragonslayer, wouldn't it cause some harm to him because of its Astral properties it's acquired overtime? Even though his sword was created & lies in the Mortal realm, doesn't this change the outcome of Guts interference with non-mortal realm entities?

I dont have the books infront of me right now. Trying to explain all this from memory. But if Skull Knight explained this to Guts, he must have already been aware of Guts sword.

 Now that I think of it, Skull Knight did try to strike Femto with his Beherit sword while Femto's back was facing him, and he still failed .

Offline Feeblecursedone

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Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2016, 06:22:32 PM »
Quote
So let's just say if Guts were to strike Femto with the Dragonslayer, wouldn't it cause some harm to him because of its Astral properties it's acquired overtime?

I think that's the problem itself, Guts would need to land a strike, which I think, at his current level is near impossible. A God hand being is stupidly powerful, one would need more than crazy physical stats and an oversized sword. There'll be some form of upgrade for him on Skellig I think, so that may be the answer. Wether its going to be last one or not, remains to be seen.

Right now he's at level where he possesses a serious challenge for Zodd and Grunbeld, but not beyond that. Even the most powerful apostle is nothing compared to Griffith and Guts is around that level.

Offline Mangetsu

Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2016, 06:32:56 PM »
I think that's the problem itself, Guts would need to land a strike, which I think, at his current level is near impossible. A God hand being is stupidly powerful, one would need more than crazy physical stats and an oversized sword. There'll be some form of upgrade for him on Skellig I think, so that may be the answer. Wether its going to be last one or not, remains to be seen.

Right now he's at level where he possesses a serious challenge for Zodd and Grunbeld, but not beyond that. Even the most powerful apostle is nothing compared to Griffith and Guts is around that level.

That's why we have the moonlight boy  :carcus:

As stated by many, there could be a situation in which the Moonlight Boy can cause an opening for Guts to strike, but will he be able to kill his own child ? What would Casca think ?

A huge conflict perfect for the climax of the series, but we will see.

Offline Feeblecursedone

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Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2016, 06:37:59 PM »
True.

Quote
What would Casca think ?

I think we can safely say we all want to see what would Casca think about ALL of this so far, and not just moonlight boy XD


Offline Pink-Dark-Boy

Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2016, 06:41:31 PM »
Ah yes, very good point.

So let's just say if Guts were to strike Femto with the Dragonslayer, wouldn't it cause some harm to him because of its Astral properties it's acquired overtime?

In a hypothetical situation in where Guts does have the opportunity. Possibly, as you could argue that it made Slan retreat (or it was her not being able to maintain the physical form she had.) I think Guts even makes a comment about kicking her ass as well  :ganishka:. But we have yet to see if any permanent/significant damage was inflicted upon her.

Offline DANGERDOOOOM

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Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2016, 07:15:10 PM »
True.

I think we can safely say we all want to see what would Casca think about ALL of this so far, and not just moonlight boy XD

I doubt she will shrug off the whole Eclipse experience as Griffith being a jerk and Guts overreacting to the situation. If and when she gets her full memory back, and after she has time to recuperate and take everything in, things will hopefully go well for Guts. I feel Casca will be for Guts' quest for revenge of the Band of of Hawk and become a struggler like Guts.

I don't know why she'd choose to ignore or scold Guts after all hes done to keep her safe and to get her sanity back. Last time she was sane, she cared deeply for Guts and I don't think that will completely change. I ultimately feel they will work together.

Though, Guts' wish may not be her wish, as Skull Knight has stated. So who knows  :???:
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 10:14:34 PM by DANGERDOOOOM »

Offline Feeblecursedone

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Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2016, 03:37:43 PM »
Quote
I feel Casca will be for Guts' quest for revenge of the Band of of Hawk and become a struggler like Guts.

She's a struggler already.

Offline MrFlibble

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Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2016, 05:14:02 PM »
He'd die, no contest. Skull Knight himself, the apex in terms of fighting ability, couldn't even touch Femto despite doing everything right, bear in mind the God Hand also have inhuman reflexes, Void and Femto both deflected SKs attacks. The only one that has come close to harming Griffith is  :rickert:, if SK cut off Rickerts hand and attached it to his sword to crate a sort of morning star, maybe he could slap Femto to death.


Offline TripleJMaster3

Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2016, 08:45:54 PM »
He'd die, no contest. Skull Knight himself, the apex in terms of fighting ability, couldn't even touch Femto despite doing everything right, bear in mind the God Hand also have inhuman reflexes, Void and Femto both deflected SKs attacks. The only one that has come close to harming Griffith is  :rickert:, if SK cut off Rickerts hand and attached it to his sword to crate a sort of morning star, maybe he could slap Femto to death.

Yes and the only reason Rickert got his glorious bitch slap in was because Griffith let it happen. Obviously he could have moved, caught his hand, made his head explode with a wink of the eye, etc. I am still a bit curious as to why Griffith allowed it. The only thing I can come up with is that maybe Griffith wanted  :rakshas: Rakshas to attack Griffith since he was a potential threat to the peace in Falconia. However, I don't believe that Rickert could have convinced everyone that Griffith was a fraud even if he wanted to.

Offline DANGERDOOOOM

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Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2016, 09:10:50 PM »
She's a struggler already.

I meant to where she is actually fighting alongside Guts. Something or rather.

Offline Walter

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Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2016, 09:15:21 PM »
Yes and the only reason Rickert got his glorious bitch slap in was because Griffith let it happen. Obviously he could have moved, caught his hand, made his head explode with a wink of the eye, etc. I am still a bit curious as to why Griffith allowed it. The only thing I can come up with is that maybe Griffith wanted  :rakshas: Rakshas to attack Griffith since he was a potential threat to the peace in Falconia. However, I don't believe that Rickert could have convinced everyone that Griffith was a fraud even if he wanted to.

You're really over thinking this. Griffith let his guard down because he was welcoming a former comrade, and he got slapped. If it was all merely a ruse, Miura wouldn't have bothered showing the reader that Rickert's slap left an impression on Griffith.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Vixen Comics

Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2016, 03:30:56 AM »
She's a struggler already.

I think the role of "struggler" really only implies to Guts.

I am hoping the dawarves in elf helm can give something to the dragon slayer that can make it even more powerful and give it some edge in a supernatural show down with the God Hand. But as far as Femto is concerned i really think the real weak spot for killing him will be Guts and Casca's child.
/center]

Offline Squiddot

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Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2016, 12:25:46 PM »
I'm sure that there will never be a time when Guts will be able to simply walk up to Griffith and defeat him in a one on one. His victory will be the result of dozens of events converging together. The most obvious being the Moonlight Child (who will likely play the greatest role), Silat and Rickert, the Skullknight and the many characters we've met on Skellig. I would say all of these elements in a certain combination with a bit (read. a boatload) of luck may be enough. However, they haven't begun to converge yet and we as the reader can't accurately guess how and when they'll work together and what will drive them towards each other again.

Once all the business with Casca is finally sorted we'll have a clearer idea on how the group is going to progress in regards to Griffith. For now the immediate resolution of that plot point clouds the potential of the future plot.

Offline DANGERDOOOOM

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Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2016, 08:33:39 PM »
I'm sure that there will never be a time when Guts will be able to simply walk up to Griffith and defeat him in a one on one. His victory will be the result of dozens of events converging together. The most obvious being the Moonlight Child (who will likely play the greatest role), Silat and Rickert, the Skullknight and the many characters we've met on Skellig. I would say all of these elements in a certain combination with a bit (read. a boatload) of luck may be enough. However, they haven't begun to converge yet and we as the reader can't accurately guess how and when they'll work together and what will drive them towards each other again.

Once all the business with Casca is finally sorted we'll have a clearer idea on how the group is going to progress in regards to Griffith. For now the immediate resolution of that plot point clouds the potential of the future plot.

I figure the whole fight between Guts and Femto will be a collaborated effort on both sides, since Guts is interweaving people into his life & personal hatred of Griffith, whether he knows it or not. But at the very end it will be the last man or demon standing. They will go head to head at some point.

Offline guidedbylazers

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Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2016, 10:55:20 AM »
Hi everyone I'm new the the forums, and I would just like to throw in my 2 cents.

I think currently what we have going on is a no win situation for Guts. It's just not in the cards for him, even with help from someone like Schierke. It's well known that Femto is essentially Demon Jesus. He is the King of kings you could say... Anyhow forgive me if I am wrong but when people bring up Griffith at this point and the story and Femto I am not following.

 From what I understand Griffith is now an avatar and Femto is what became of the original Griffith... In other words Griffith became god, and now also has an only begotten son per se. I think Guts even landing a strike on Femto is out of the question. I think Guts landing a strike on Ubik is even out of the question. Guts never fought Slan but just fought an avatar made of troll intestine...  so with all this said. Griffith may have let Rickert get away with that bitch slap, but I don't think it's because Griffith is some invincible Demon King like Femto. Guts should be fully capable of killing Griffith's apostle avatar, at least at some point.

It's been awhile since Zodd and Guts have fought. I think Guts could wipe the floor with Zodd at this point. Griffith's apostle form however seems to be very powerful as well though I doubt it is as powerful as Femto (an example of his power at least so far was him removing Zodd's horn, no big deal) but still a huuuge challenge. Thoughts?

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2016, 04:30:03 PM »
It's well known that Femto is essentially Demon Jesus.

I think it's more accurate to compare Griffith to the Anti-christ, not Christ himself. Griffith is misleading innocent people into believing he is a messiah figure.

Anyhow forgive me if I am wrong but when people bring up Griffith at this point and the story and Femto I am not following.

Essentially, Griffith, a normal human, became a very powerful astral being, Femto, during the Eclipse ceremony. During the Incarnation ceremony at Albion, Femto was given a corporeal body in which he could exist in the physical world. The incarnated Griffith is more or less Femto wearing a Griffith suit.

Griffith's apostle form however seems to be very powerful as well though I doubt it is as powerful as Femto (an example of his power at least so far was him removing Zodd's horn, no big deal) but still a huuuge challenge. Thoughts?

This is confusing to me. Griffith doesn't have an apostle form because he isn't an apostle. He's part of the God Hand and thus much more powerful than any apostle. So of course he subjugated Zodd with minimal effort. He does the same with Ganishka, who was unable to even stand up in Griffith's presence at Vritannis. Again, Griffith and Femto are one and the same, there is no power difference.

I think currently what we have going on is a no win situation for Guts.

Going back to the beginning of your post, I think you should take into consideration some things before making this kind of claim. We know that Griffith most likely has a weakness in that the Demon Child can still exert emotional impulses (such as when it compelled Griffith to protect Casca on the hill of swords). In addition to that, there is the Moonlight Boy and his possible relationship to Griffith, which has been discussed at length on this site. There's also what Skull Knight tells Guts about being more than a shadow on the water's surface; that he may be able to disrupt causality (much like SK attempts to do at temporal junction points throughout the series). Since Guts' last encounter with Femto, we've learned that the Dragon Slayer can inflict astral wounds, and Guts has received the berserk's armor, both of which put him on more equal footing with powerful creatures. And lastly, we know that the God Hand were brought into the physical world during the Blast of the Astral World, and while that may allow them more direct control over humanity, it also stands to reason that it makes them significantly more vulnerable to attacks.

Now, I'm not convinced Guts can, or even will, take on the Idea of Evil, but I think Miura has been carefully crafting a way for Guts to be able to defeat the God Hand, specifically Griffith, for a very long time now.

Offline guidedbylazers

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Re: Guts' next showdown against Femto. Does he stand a chance now?
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2016, 09:45:15 PM »
okay well liek I said correct me if I'm wrong... but with what yr saying if Griffith is more like Jesus than the Anti-Christ. I was under the impression that Griffith had his Femto form and the latter was an avatar (being an Apostle is it was hatched from an Apostle). If I am wrong, and they are one in the same then his IS more like Christ in that multiple beings in one (God the Father, Son, Holy Spirit) than an Anti-Christ who has a single persona. The Anti-Christ and Satan are not one in the same in Christian folklore like Jesus and his place in the trinity.

Anyway, thanks for clearing that part up for me, However... I still believe Berserker armor or not, being able to swing a sword to hit astral beings or not... The God hand is not a swarm of ghosts, or a horde or trolls, or a single Apostle, or a group of Apostles. It's essensially a Council of ultimate beings who carry out the will of God. In theory yes, he could scratch, cut, harm any one of them... but in the manga I am reading, I don't think Guts stands a chance at actually touching them.

Like the OP asked, "Do you think Guts could take on Femto at this point in the story?" Yes, Miura has definitely been working it out for awhile now, but my answer would be... at this point of the story, No. Absolutely not.