Author Topic: Why doesn't Griffith kill Guts? (and other stuff)  (Read 17592 times)

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Offline einherjar

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Re: Why doesn't Griffith kill Guts? (and other stuff)
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2008, 12:06:32 PM »
I don't think Griffith/Femto knew that Casca was already pregnant with Guts child and thus put his demon seed into her. Like the poster above you stated, He (Femto) raped her in front of Guts because he knew that they had feelings for each other and knew that emotional damage would hurt more.

That may have been Femto's rationale, which urged him to sew the thread of causality... Do you see my point?  He doesn't need to know that Casca is pregnant and that raping her will provide a vessel for his return.  It is something he's been programmed to, which in turn facilitates a later event.

I also think the Demon Child was absorbed into the vessel by chance more than anything.


From what we know of causality in the Berserk universe, it seems a bit unlikely.  Also, the Demon Child is Griffith's vessel.  The Beherit apostle was the incubator for the reincarnated Griffith.

Offline Dembol

Re: Why doesn't Griffith kill Guts? (and other stuff)
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2008, 02:22:17 PM »
I think that some very tiny part of Griffith still feels that slaughtering his comrades was a terrible thing to do. Let's call it the 'human' piece. This part is obviously dominated by his ambition and it's also what's letting Guts & Co. live. Griffith tries to explain to himself that he's letting Guts live, because he's insignificant, but my guess is that in the end he feels bad for doing all the evil deeds for the sake of his dream. I think that with all his intellect and resources he could notice that Guts is over time slowly building up his power, gathering troops and becoming  more and more significant threat. He could easily trample his growth by sending a huge force to kill him, but he still didn't.

I suppose that while his overambitious evil part wants to have the 'half of the kingdom and the princess' from legends (or 'the castle in the sky' as it was stated in the manga AFAIR) he still allows Guts live, because he knows that once he gets all he wants the only thing that can redeem him in the eyes of his 'human' part and to silence his remorse is to be killed by Guts. Probably the closer he will be to that goal the closer he'll be to such a realisation. I can easily see the last moments of Berserk being Griffith killed by Guts and actually dying a happy man (monster, God Hand or whatever :guts:), when he comes to terms with his crimes. He'd then have supplied what both his sides wanted: the dream and the redemption. Then Guts just strolls into the sundown (hopefully with Casca, because I'd hate to see him lose anything more). Of course there are other things that need to be taken into consideration, like Casca's involvement in the whole process, but I think (or rather hope?) that basically this is how it'll work out.

I also think that the above idea was pointed out many times, but I don't read most of the forums here as often as I'd like :( so I'll post it anyway.

Offline Oburi

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Re: Why doesn't Griffith kill Guts? (and other stuff)
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2008, 05:56:42 PM »
GUts is beneath Griffiths notice and does not pose a threat. Simple as that. By letting him live, Griffith is showing Guts that he isn't even worthy of a death by his hands.  Griffith stated that he feels nothing for Guts on the hill of swords.
"I came here to see if anything will shake my heart. I now know that I am free." Something along those lines.

Offline einherjar

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Re: Why doesn't Griffith kill Guts? (and other stuff)
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2008, 02:22:54 PM »
I think that some very tiny part of Griffith still feels that slaughtering his comrades was a terrible thing to do. Let's call it the 'human' piece. This part is obviously dominated by his ambition and it's also what's letting Guts & Co. live. Griffith tries to explain to himself that he's letting Guts live, because he's insignificant, but my guess is that in the end he feels bad for doing all the evil deeds for the sake of his dream.

I have to disagree.  When Griffith becomes Femto, he sheds his conscience:  the part of a human that cares about morality.  Think about it - why else could the Idea be comfortable letting the God Hand do as they will?  Because without a conscience to steer them, a being will be driven solely by ambition, instinct, and base desire.  The wildcard, IMHO, is the influence that Guts' and Casca's child has on the reincarnated Griffith.

I think that with all his intellect and resources he could notice that Guts is over time slowly building up his power, gathering troops and becoming more and more significant threat. He could easily trample his growth by sending a huge force to kill him, but he still didn't.

It's just that killing Guts gains Griffith nothing.  Guts currently lacks the power to oppose Griffith, and whereas Ganishka's defeat will futher Griffith's ambition, and cast him as savior, the death of Guts would have no meaning, not to Griffith, nor to the people of Midland.

I suppose that while his overambitious evil part wants to have the 'half of the kingdom and the princess' from legends (or 'the castle in the sky' as it was stated in the manga AFAIR) he still allows Guts live, because he knows that once he gets all he wants the only thing that can redeem him in the eyes of his 'human' part and to silence his remorse is to be killed by Guts. Probably the closer he will be to that goal the closer he'll be to such a realisation. I can easily see the last moments of Berserk being Griffith killed by Guts and actually dying a happy man (monster, God Hand or whatever :guts:), when he comes to terms with his crimes. He'd then have supplied what both his sides wanted: the dream and the redemption.

I think his ambition is his only driving force.  Griffith has no need or want for redemption, since that desire would be a function of conscience - an admission of wrongdoing.  I don't see anything in Griffith's character that points to him feeling remorse.  In fact, on the Hill of Swords, he says he feels nothing, as Oburi stated.


Offline Zoddiscute

Re: Why doesn't Griffith kill Guts? (and other stuff)
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2013, 11:24:05 PM »
That may have been Femto's rationale, which urged him to sew the thread of causality... Do you see my point?  He doesn't need to know that Casca is pregnant and that raping her will provide a vessel for his return.  It is something he's been programmed to, which in turn facilitates a later event.
 

From what we know of causality in the Berserk universe, it seems a bit unlikely.  Also, the Demon Child is Griffith's vessel.  The Beherit apostle was the incubator for the reincarnated Griffith.

Yes this is my take on it as well, the rape served several functions, creating the demon child and fuelling Guts rage so that he would pursue Griffith.

Online Walter

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Re: Why doesn't Griffith kill Guts? (and other stuff)
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2013, 12:20:56 AM »
...and fuelling Guts rage so that he would pursue Griffith.
What's that assertion based on? Femto regards Guts as an insect.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Zoddiscute

Re: Why doesn't Griffith kill Guts? (and other stuff)
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2013, 01:20:18 AM »
as we were discussing in the other thread, my friend thinks that Griffith aims to use guts power in the future in some way, its not really based on anything though.  As a God hand can Griffith now see the flow of causality and therefore see into the future?

Does Femto not admire Guts persistence and strength still? I mean Guts has proved that he is more powerful than most of the apostles.


Offline Aazealh

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Re: Why doesn't Griffith kill Guts? (and other stuff)
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2013, 09:53:37 AM »
my friend thinks that Griffith aims to use guts power in the future in some way, its not really based on anything though.

That seems pretty unlikely.

As a God hand can Griffith now see the flow of causality and therefore see into the future?

We don't know, although I doubt he can see the future.

Does Femto not admire Guts persistence and strength still?

Does he seem to?

Offline Zoddiscute

Re: Why doesn't Griffith kill Guts? (and other stuff)
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2013, 11:30:25 AM »
That seems pretty unlikely.

We don't know, although I doubt he can see the future.

Does he seem to?

When Femto rapes Casca, and then uses the baby to incarnate himself, I thought that this would indicate that he can see into the future in a way as it seems that this is what he planned through the rape.

Doesn't Griffith ask Guts to join the new band of the hawk on the hill of swords? Also you have Guts and Zodd working together to fight Gashnika, I figured that could have been part of Griffith's plan, to use Guts power.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Why doesn't Griffith kill Guts? (and other stuff)
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2013, 12:07:24 PM »
When Femto rapes Casca, and then uses the baby to incarnate himself, I thought that this would indicate that he can see into the future in a way as it seems that this is what he planned through the rape.

Well that's because you don't understand how things work. You really believe Femto "incarnated himself"? He was incarnated, but that wasn't his decision. He was the lucky recipient of a gift granted by his master, the Idea of Evil. An incarnation ceremony is a "once in a thousand years" events. Not something that happens overnight. Femto and his peers of the God Hand are, for all their might, still serving a higher power, wittingly or not. That higher power is the one who created them and led them to sacrifice, to become what they are. It is the one pulling the strings.

The members of the God Hand are not quite on that level.

Doesn't Griffith ask Guts to join the new band of the hawk on the hill of swords?

Hell no he doesn't. Please re-read the manga, you seem to be confused about a lot of things.

Also you have Guts and Zodd working together to fight Gashnika, I figured that could have been part of Griffith's plan, to use Guts power.

Nah, that was a chance encounter. Although you never know, perhaps it was meant to be. But again, if it had been planned, it wasn't by Femto.