Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:Are you trying to make a connection between Guts and McCain? They are not even related.
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:Are you trying to make a connection between Guts and McCain? They are not even related.
Griffith No More! said:Ironic, but late.
Sanguinius said:Seems McCain does still fight against the odds.
http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11412562
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:That article sounds exactly like every libertarian radio speaker that I've heard in the past week. Even down to when they mutter a coherent sentence about food stamps at the end of their spiel. The aid congress gives to farmers is high, but only untill recently have they actually started making enough money to where the can support their selves. Still this bill is designed to help out the POORER farmers which unlike the other farmers are not selling their entire corn stock as bio fuel.
Truth is, libertarians are against all government spending that is not Military or Police. Well, I call shenanigans on that.
"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don't understand it," she said, dismissing the idea of dropping out.
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:I don't understand this either because California already voted for their nominee and none of this has anything to do with bobby kennedy. So why bring it up?
Sanguinius said:I challenge anyone to mention 1 major issue on which Obama is doing something that clashes with a vested interest group in the Democrat party or supports a highly unpopular policy among the general public.
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:I don't understand this either because California already voted for their nominee and none of this has anything to do with bobby kennedy. So why bring it up?
Griffith No More! said:Well, he was the only candidate not to vote for invading Iraq when it was apparently a popular choice at the time. To paraphrase our favorite publication, Barack Obama boldly voted against the bill; John McCain didn't. I guess it's just that simple, and represents that Obama is a harbinger of peace and utopia while John McCain is a regressive war mongering dinosaur. =)
Griffith No More! said:Anyway, you're sure reading a lot into both of these candidates, and waxing poetic, on the basis of an article which mentions them once in a final sentence, and in a very deliberate and purposeful fashion. Not exactly the objective completist's guide to these two men. McCain has his own skeletons when it comes to special interest groups and scandal, such as his involvement as one of the "Keating Five", and the more recently the accusations of an improper relationship with a lobbyist, including an alleged affair, which wouldn't be as believable if McCain didn't have a history as a serial philanderer, and whose interest group he then went to bat for. Personally, I didn't like that he allowed himself to become somewhat of a lackey for George W. Bush, though I understood his political reasoning behind it. Now, that said, I wouldn't firmly hold those or similar gaffes against John McCain, or use them to solely define his character, that'd be ignorant, obtuse, and unfair.
Sanguinius said:Well you’ll probably mock me some more for whatever comments I say but he was not that only candidate running to vote against the war Ron Paul voted against it too and he is still running.
Sanguinius said:But as the only Democrat currently running who voted against the war you’re right. However, he did vote in favour of sending additional funds requested by the President to pay for that war, he did not try and cut the funding and force the President’s hand as some suggested.
Sanguinius said:Plus he was not running for President when he did that, and maybe and I mean MAYBE not saying this is the case. That like me he might have known back then that as easily as it is to whip the American people into a frenzy it’s equally as easy to predict that whenever they have a long term foreign commitment that costs a lot of money and lives they will turn against it. Just as they did in Vietnam after the Gulf of Tonkin and other incidents, and that in the long term it would be electorally beneficial to be against it, especially for a democrat.
Sanguinius said:As for the nonsense you’re spewing about Obama being a harbinger of peace, (no doubt phrased just to annoy me) I’ll remind you in case you forgot that when Obama seemed to be getting a lot of negative press coverage saying he was weak on foreign affairs he came out with his oh so peaceful idea to take unilateral military action inside Pakistan against the wishes of its government. So yes McCain obviously has a very "hawkish" view on how to deal with countries like Iraq and Iran at least his views are well known and predictable, maybe Obama always thought that and his views are consist but it did seem that his Pakistan policy did jump out of nowhere at a time when he was trying not to look "weak" on foreign affairs.
Sanguinius said:It is only one issue and McCain does have his own problems too, but as for myself, I’m not looking for the perfect candidate here, I’m not even looking for the “best” candidate here, I’m looking for the least awful candidate out of this bunch. I also consider the agricultural issue to be extremely important issue as a matter of fact. It also annoys me that these politicians, especially on the “left”, who speak so much about helping the weakest in societies support policies like this even though these policies cause poverty and famine and hinder economic development in much of the developing world. So yes, one issue, but a very important issue, these policies in the US and EU are wrecking the Doha talks and are causing developing countries considerable economic hardship. In no small part they’re also responsible for the current rise in world food prices that’s bringing many people recently lifted out of absolute poverty back into it, and bringing inflationary pressure to many developing countries. Then of course there’s the lesser damage it does to the US and EU themselves, bringing higher taxes and higher food prices to every tax payer and everyone who eats food.
Sanguinius said:Also I'll give 1 more reason with a reasonable sensible person should definitely vote McCain, it's nothing to do with personality or policy. It's quite simply that the Democrats are going to control both the Houses of Congress, do you really think it's wise that a Democrat should be in the White house too? Didn't the republicans show that with the current bunch of politicians you have in DC the one thing you don't want either faction to have is dominance in both the Legislature and Executive? You'll just end of swapping the inherent flaws in the Republican party for the inherent flaws in the Democrat party. If there's one thing I've learnt from studying recent US politics is that the best governance is delivered by a divided US government as that provides some checks and balances, as the system was originally meant too.
Griffith No More! said:
Ron is back!
Griffith No More! said:Personally, I don't fault him for not going with the cockamamy "strategy" of undercutting our own effort once it's already underway. It goes back to reasonableness and pliability, rather than perfect ideological stands. You say you're not looking for perfect, but that seems to be one of the complaints you have against Obama. I know not everyone is aware that he's a sneaky politician as any of them, but I'm counting on it.
You could write this conspiratorial stuff about any of the candidates and their motivations, again, they're politicians, but if he had that much foresight, I'm all the more impressed, he made the right call in both cases. I figure he just got lucky, despite his claims to the contrary, he's naturally one of the more liberal members of congress anyway. I believe who he is actually just happened to work out for him, but if he's manipulating me, a job well done.
Griffith No More! said:Well, why don't you give him the benefit of the doubt? =)
Griffith No More! said:Amen.
Griffith No More! said:That's an attractive argument, I like it, but I don't think someone reasonable and sensible should definitely do anything on basic principle alone, but give it all very careful consideration.
Griffith No More! said:Although the Democrats are continuing to make gains, which are being facilitated further by Obama, I'm not sure that he'd be able to wield the kind of power Bush has regrettably had, hopefully nobody will. Whether it be McCain or Obama, I'm hoping it's going to be someone with a much better working relationship with Congress, as in working with them to compromise, not against them. Of course, maybe that dreamy charismatic leader can unite them all together for the greater good of the World, no more Democrats or Republicans, just Americans, one Nation, under Obama. =)
Sanguinius said:Well not as an iron clad law but it's a pretty strong basic principle, to go against a core principal I think you'd need an extremely strong reason that leaves few it any doubts that it could all go horribly wrong.
Sanguinius said:I think I know what this sentiment needs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPROGyJ2FNA
Griffith No More! said:That's what I mean though, for example, would you rather have say 4 more years of George W. Bush (no judgment on McCain here, just an extreme example) with a strong Democrat run Congress, or Obama under the same conditions?
Griffith No More! said:Very good, you even managed to even-handedly extricate the virtues of Dubya! So let me ask you another question and give you a platform I think you're going to relish; what if Ron Paul were in serious contention with a Republican controlled Congress? Would you take him, and technically violate the principle (though you can argue he's by no means a typical Republican), or would you rather have a Democrat like Obama for that true friction and balance?
On another note, McCain is doing a lot of house cleaning this week, severing ties with lobbyists, pastors, anyone that could be an embarrassment, releasing his medical records and he and his wife's tax returns, and basically dumping a lot of baggage going into this memorial day weekend.