Smith said:I used to believe that the reason why Sonia can be so close to Griffith was due to her innocence, completely oblivious to Griffith's true nature and intentions...
So it turns out that she will be on a Griffith’s side even if a bloody massacre begins and apostles will start to kill and eat people all around Midland without any kind of control.Aazealh said:It's either that, or she simply doesn't understand the concepts of good and bad/has a twisted conception of things in which Griffith's actions and what they'll bring forth is acceptable.
Flash said:Thou I think there are things which could possibly make Sonia to change her mind.
Aazealh said:Yeah, same here. It'd have to be something really big though, and I don't think she'd accept the truth easily. Might take time and all that.
Nonsapient said:The image of Sonia I have in my head would be perfectly willing to stay with Griffith no matter what he has done. He inspires loyalty (supernatural loyalty, now) in all that serve him.
Nonsapient said:The image of Sonia I have in my head would be perfectly willing to stay with Griffith no matter what he has done. He inspires loyalty (supernatural loyalty, now) in all that serve him.
Shadow67733 said:I am still skeptical of the consistency of her "gift".
Aazealh said:She's probably the person acting the most familiarly with him, and that reflects how she feels about him in general (not to mention her crush on him).
Smith said:Somehow it reminds me of Schierke having a crush on Guts, guess they were similar scenarios?
Aazealh said:And why would that be? I don't think she seemed confused after telling Zodd his future. In fact, would you mind explaining exactly when in the story she's looked confused to you and why? I believe she's more happy-go-lucky than anything else, and so far her gift has proven itself to be extremely accurate and reliable. I don't think there's any basis to doubt its consistency at this point, if only because we haven't seen her use it enough times for that yet.
Shadow67733 said:After she talks to Zodd and makes her prophecies he says something along the lines of "so this is what prophecies are like" as she looks around and says "who knows?".
mahlernut said:Zodd:
Meaning what?
Sonja:
Who knows?
Zodd:
…So this is one of your predictions?
Shadow67733 said:Sadly since darkhorse is so slow with the books, which I do buy(how can u not want to own this series?) I have to depend on scanlations for the newer stuff and I know the translations are iffy sometimes. Sadly my japanese is not up to par so more then i'd like gets lost there.
Shadow67733 said:After she talks to Zodd and makes her prophecies he says something along the lines of "so this is what prophecies are like" as she looks around and says "who knows?".
Aazealh said:she simply doesn't understand the concepts of good and bad/has a twisted conception of things
einherjar said:Neitschze is the root of all things Berserk... (not sure if that already has its own thread)
einherjar said:Simply put, since Griffith has transcended humanity -- and if Sonia can recognize that with her gifts -- she could also recognize him, as well as the other apostles, as being beyond the limitations of human morality.
Aazealh said:Not really, no. Some concepts do come directly from Nietzschean philosophy, but it's not "the root of all things Berserk".
Aazealh said:She has a very special conception of many things in the first place, look at her little story about ducks for example. It doesn't exactly depict her as highly valuing human life.
Aazealh said:Anyway, by "the other apostles", are you implying that Griffith is an apostle? Because he's a different kind of being entirely.
einherjar said:Yes, that was an irresponsible simplification on my part. I did attempt to search for "Nietzsche" related threads after my post, but I couldn't find any recent ones other than in the general discussion (non Berserk) boards.
einherjar said:I guess my point in bringing it up was that through the sacrifice, Beherit users demonstrate the ability to bend their morality to suit their will. And as a consequence of doing so, they are freed from their human condition...
einherjar said:I don't recall the duck story, where is that?
Aazealh said:Well I didn't say there were recent threads!
Aazealh said:That's matter for a true debate here! Are apostles truly not human, or are they on the contrary disproportionately driven by some very human emotions and desires? Fear, pain and despair lead them to selfishly sacrifice what is dearest to them, so that they become apostles, and then they are governed by their blood thirst, gluttony, lust, sloth... It all sounds very human. Amoral and "evil", sure, but human nonetheless (and don't we have plenty of real life examples of completely amoral people?). In Berserk this is consistent with what we're shown of the world: the Vortex of Souls, the Idea of Evil, the God Hand, and the apostles all revolve around mankind. By opposition, we can find spiritual beings who are completely alien to those concepts and who genuinely transcend them (e.g. elementals). The apostles, despite their transmutation, remain inescapably bound to humanity. So I guess it depends on what we define "human" as in the context.
Aazealh said:When Sonia meets Schierke at the pier in Vritannis. It's at the end of volume 28, in episode 246.
einherjar said:Which philosopher posited that mankind was inherently evil?
einherjar said:And that would also serve to explain the behaviors of the named apostles vs. the hordes of weaker ones... The capacity for reason is not dependant on morality... Perhaps the intelligence of an apostle remains unchanged through the transformation?
Aazealh said:Well that's a relatively common concept actually. For example, in the Christian faith men are born in sin, and must struggle all their lives to atone for it in order to be redeemed and become pure and good.
Aazealh said:I take that for granted, yes. However I'd go even farther and postulate that their own worth as individuals (force of will, skills, courage, personality traits, etc.) might also be carried over to their new apostle selves. Therefore, an unremarkable man will become an unremarkable apostle, while a great man will become a great apostle.