Walter said:I think this is a pretty optimistic assumption. This is just the Kushan fleet. There's still the land army attacking Vritannis head-on.
Knight o' Skeleton said:it seems that Daiba doesn't mind sinking his own flagship to defeat Guts and his group.
darkbane said:For everyone complaining about the super-hero-ish-ness (is that a word?) of the latest poses, I think we should remember that, in the first place, there are a lot of western influences in this manga (and I mean "western" in a broad sense, as in everything west of Japan and east of Fiji), and, in the second place, Guts really is super-human anyway
Vaxillus said:Time for Vaxillus' crappy theory.
cuthulu said:But in my oppinion Diaba's kind of lame, I don't really like him as a character...meh personal preference I guess.
cuthulu said:It's a little upsetting that the boat got tanked, I thought it would be pretty ironic if they used Daiba's boat to get to Elfhelm
Noid said:And if that it's the case perhaps they have to spend sometime with the people of the city.
prawnstyle said:I wonder it will have any special strengths, it might have very tough skin, or regenerative abilities.
prawnstyle said:I also think we might see schierke finally encanting through guts..or maybe not.
Aazealh said:I can't believe some people are still clinging to that idea. Give it up man, they're not staying and Guts won't lead the Holy See Alliance's troops.
Aazealh said:As for destroying "most of" the fleet, we really can't know for sure. They've killed quite a lot of them and they're probably going to terminate the general as well, but there might still be a consequent number of troops left for all we know. After all the city's big and it's all on fire right now, the group just cleared its path to the harbor without patrolling the rest of the streets. They've really been fleeing and avoiding encounters, not guarding the place or trying to defeat all the assailants.
Aazealh said:Interesting, I find him pretty cool myself, especially for a one-time encounter (which he probably is). What part of him you don't like?
"Griffith No More!" said:I'm not saying there's anything wrong with assuming Guts is still jacked up from the Beast battle with Daiba. That's a natural feeling about the scene, but it's also very vague and intangible, so I don't think you can quantify it, or the current nature of Guts/The Beast, from it.
cuthulu said:Aesthetically I'm not fond of him, I think its the creepy, unkept old man vibe he gives off.
cuthulu said:That and the fact that Guts can't get a hit on him.
cuthulu said:I'm going to put it into D&D-esque terms for lack of a better way to explain it. Whenever you have a powerful fighter, go against a powerful magic user, usually the fighter is toast.
cuthulu said:The fact that Guts can't even get a hit in, I think is giving credence to this theory.
cuthulu said:The fights a little unbalanced I would have rather have seen a battle between Daiba and Selke, although I think Selke would get slaughtered in a battle like that.
cuthulu said:I Also think Daiba's presence is slowing the plot down a little too much, it reminds me a lot of the battle with Roshinu, I just want the fight to end so the plot can move forward and out of the city.
QUeeN typhonblue said:Guts last word, "Water?" How enigmatic.
Noid said:I didn't say that.
Noid said:But Owen, all the people in the party and some guards have seen Guts and his group. Perhaps some of them remember it and even associate the battle in the harbor and what happened in the party. But this is not outstanding now, and probably in the future neither. It's only a note.
cuthulu said:Aesthetically I'm not fond of him, I think its the creepy, unkept old man vibe he gives off.
cuthulu said:That and the fact that Guts can't get a hit on him.
cuthulu said:I'm going to put it into D&D-esque terms for lack of a better way to explain it. Whenever you have a powerful fighter, go against a powerful magic user, usually the fighter is toast. The fact that Guts can't even get a hit in, I think is giving credence to this theory.
cuthulu said:The fights a little unbalanced I would have rather have seen a battle between Daiba and Schierke, although I think Schierke would get slaughtered in a battle like that.
cuthulu said:I Also think Daiba's presence is slowing the plot down a little too much, it reminds me a lot of the battle with Roshinu, I just want the fight to end so the plot can move forward and out of the city.
Mage said:It could be that Schierke is just keeping the Beast from gaining control, while its od still envelops (and empowers) Guts
Mage said:how easily and completely he slipped back into the Beast, as if he hadn't awakened at all.
Wah wah wah said:Isidro just got a hit on him, one that should go a long way, considering Daiba's build and what it was that Isidro hit him with. (Admittedly, Daiba is more physically resiliant than he looks, didn't stagger him nearly as much as I thought it would. )
Mage said:It could be that Schierke is just keeping the Beast from gaining control, while its od still envelops (and empowers) Guts...evidenced by how easily and completely he slipped back into the Beast, as if he hadn't awakened at all. From the conversation near the beginning, it sounds as though Guts admits to still being in "Beast" form to Farnese but is in control due to Schierke's intervening protection. That implies a new dynamic to go along with the new look (kind of reinforced by how he commends Schierke as being "incredible").
Mage said:Then again, later on as he's fighting Daiba, he says rage/pain brings out the power of the armor but that he can't entrust in it, as if he's not fully utilizing the power in the current form. So what difference this (questionable) new relationship makes could be moot anyways.
Saiki said:Daiba - to protect your allies during a battle, have you been waken to your senses?
Daiba - But can you fight against Daiba without the power of the Berserk?
"Griffith No More!" said:Mucha calidad.
cuthulu said:Aesthetically I'm not fond of him, I think its the creepy, unkept old man vibe he gives off. That and the fact that Guts can't get a hit on him. I'm going to put it into D&D-esque terms for lack of a better way to explain it. Whenever you have a powerful fighter, go against a powerful magic user, usually the fighter is toast. The fact that Guts can't even get a hit in, I think is giving credence to this theory. The fights a little unbalanced I would have rather have seen a battle between Daiba and Schierke, although I think Schierke would get slaughtered in a battle like that.
cuthulu said:I Also think Daiba's presence is slowing the plot down a little too much, it reminds me a lot of the battle with Roshinu, I just want the fight to end so the plot can move forward and out of the city.
I'm kind of split on this one, and before this ep was released, I would have thought that either daiba would have given up, and focused on more important things (like, say, his job of destroying the city???) GNM made a post about this in the previous episode thread I believe, towards the end. But seeing this episode, it's looking like he's going to be a sacrifice to the group's "party dynamics" when it comes to combat. A few episodes ago, I was worried that they would meet him out at sea, a place where a nearly all groundbound group like Guts's would be on a serious disadvantage. I was happy to see that Guts etc was facing him near land (hay, and with all those "stepping stones" he made earlier as well ). But here's why I'm split: Daiba dieing (say that three times fast) would make Griffith's attempt to win over all of "Europe" way too easy. Here's why: Griffith is the best land general ever. He currently has an awesome army, and causality on his side, etc... but does he have a navy? Has he ever fought a sea battle? I figured in the past, that if Guts and Family meet Daiba at sea, they would have to run away, but at least Griffith would have a problem on his hands... anyways... ... So I was kinda disappointed that Guts's own attempt to get out of this place works into Griffith's hands (though we shall see about this later how many will assoicate being alive with "that dude with the huge sword and those guys casting spells" and how many will assoicate it with Griffith (if indeed, he chooses to help at all...))...Aazealh said:Interesting, I find him pretty cool myself, especially for a one-time encounter (which he probably is).
Guts still has his crossbow. He used it last back in episode 265 against some dakas. And I wouldn't trust wikipedia's info on Berserk that much unless it has Aaz's seal of approval on it.Akin said:Also: does guts still have his crossbow, like the wikipedia article states (according to it, he lost it with slann), or is wikipedia lieing to me, and in need of a fix. (not that he can use it now, it would be on the ground)
The fact that Daiba showed up after seeing the Blaze Rod go to work and all those makaras killed before him shows that Guts' influence poses a potential threat to the Kushan assault (seaside anyway). Plus, I think there are plenty of his harashadas that act independently without his direct guidance: they know how to use the Kushan beasts and shouldn't face too much resistance with the mist and chaos going on in the city.Akin said:I'm kind of split on this one, and before this ep was released, I would have thought that either daiba would have given up, and focused on more important things (like, say, his job of destroying the city???)
I'm hoping it's a beautiful and bloody one. Preferably finding out a little girl helped bring about his death prior to it.Akin said:GNM made a post about this in the previous episode thread I believe, towards the end. But seeing this episode, it's looking like he's going to be a sacrifice to the group's "party dynamics" when it comes to combat.
Griffith has never oversaw a sea battle, but that's a moot point as Causality/Idea is engineering everything to work in his favor as you mentioned. Plus, there's still the land general Daiba mentioned in volume 28 that has yet to make an appearance. We don't know yet what this land general will do or this land general has some trump up his sleeve for a tight fix against Griffith's forces the way Daiba has for Guts' company.Akin said:But here's why I'm split: Daiba dieing (say that three times fast) would make Griffith's attempt to win over all of "Europe" way too easy. Here's why: Griffith is the best land general ever. He currently has an awesome army, and causality on his side, etc... but does he have a navy? Has he ever fought a sea battle? I figured in the past, that if Guts and Family meet Daiba at sea, they would have to run away, but at least Griffith would have a problem on his hands... anyways... ... So I was kinda disappointed that Guts's own attempt to get out of this place works into Griffith's hands (though we shall see about this later how many will assoicate being alive with "that dude with the huge sword and those guys casting spells" and how many will assoicate it with Griffith (if indeed, he chooses to help at all...))...
Yeah, Isidro got him good as Aaz pointed out, but I don't think the old fart is going to let one of them catch up off guard again. Especially with his magical giant water snake. Still, I kind of hope Isidro puts some of Guts' displaced gear to use.Akin said:About Isidro getting the hit in, it's obvious, after reading, that Daiba ignoring Isidro is the reason for this... hrm..
Unrelated, but I noticed Isidro appears to be carring all of guts's dropped equipment.
Hrm, current verion of the article seems to lost the "Weaponry" section over in an edit a short time ago... I should really get more involved in editing that article... the character section looks big enough to warrent a split in articles (with the main article still mentioning the main ones...) ... potentally, the number of characters in berserk would probably warrent multiple articles....Jhot obs said:Guts still has his crossbow. He used it last back in episode 265 against some dakas. And I wouldn't trust wikipedia's info on Berserk that much unless it has Aaz's seal of approval on it.
Akin said:Really, it's like anything else (combat related), and you should really look at the specifics of it all instead of making generalisations like that...
Akin said:does guts still have his crossbow, like the wikipedia article states (according to it, he lost it with slann), or is wikipedia lieing to me, and in need of a fix.
Akin said:But here's why I'm split: Daiba dieing (say that three times fast) would make Griffith's attempt to win over all of "Europe" way too easy. Here's why: Griffith is the best land general ever. He currently has an awesome army, and causality on his side, etc... but does he have a navy? Has he ever fought a sea battle?
Akin said:Unrelated, but I noticed Isidro appears to be carring all of guts's dropped equipment.
Akin said:when was the last time we saw that? Wasn't it before people had magical items? (tower of Retribution?)
Akin said:Hrm, current verion of the article seems to lost the "Weaponry" section over in an edit a short time ago... I should really get more involved in editing that article...
As for why I read Wikipedia in general, it's because there are a lot of interesting, well written articles there. Of course, there's also a lot of room for improvement.Aazealh said:Geez, isn't anybody paying attention at all? Guts has been using his crossbow since what happened in volume 26 (as Jhot obs pointed out), why are you even reading wikipedia to find out about it? It's really not a reliable source of information on Berserk, give it up altogether man.
Sorry, I was quickly trying to state "the whole of western countries, in the unnamed(?) world of berserk", and still be clear about it.Aazealh said:First, even if between quotation marks I'd prefer you not to call anything in the Berserk world "Europe". It's just confusing and not really accurate.
Oh, right, he could completely avoid the sea as much as possible, but having some kind of naval force would help at least, I would think. Depending on what his strategy is, of course. There are many things we don't know, is Daiba really the best sea general? I would assume so, but I could of course be wrong.Aazealh said:Second, I don't think that changes anything for Griffith. Daiba's troops would have had to stay near the coast or to disembark to attack the town, and the apostles would have taken care of them like that, it wouldn't have been a real sea battle. You're also assuming a lot of things here (Griffith the best general? He's superhuman now but who knows?), Ganishka's fleet could be huge, with Daiba's troops just being a part of it. Maybe there are other powers that would refuse to let the Hawks cross the seas, and last but not least: who said Griffith cared about crossing the ocean? He could just keep his armies in Midland and just protect its coast, without necessarily building a fleet. Or he could find appropriate allies (Ys?) instead of bothering with it himself. The possibilities are really vast. If he's going to intervene right now, it'll be to save Vritannis, so he should concentrate his actions on it, not on fighting at sea. Plus he could always send flying or swimming apostles to take care of the remaining Kushan fleet without having much of a battle (just dispatching Makara?).
Ah, wasn't sure if I was right, and didn't have a lot of time to check, and I didn't want to be presumptuous like that. Guess it backfired :/ I meant "is this the first time we've seen this?" Re-looking over what happened at the top of that tower, Isidro was kind of working with himself and puck, with Jerome kinda just sitting there... I somehow mentally photoshopped in Serpico there, and more teamwork, I guess.Aazealh said:We've never seen them fighting like they just did, it's the first time. That's commonly called character development. And at Albion it was just Guts, Casca, and other people. Not the group as we know it.
Hrm, sounds like you think there is nothing usefull in any of the articles, meaning my view is unchangeably different from your own *shrug*. And besides that, my personal experience also differs from your stated assumption (?). Now, this could be because I've mostly done minor things, such as fixing and adding redirects, and adding interwiki links (links from one article to related ones.) But generally, I've noticed the majority of articles become more usefull and factual over time. (actually, the vast majority) And things possible errors I point out in talk pages cause people to check primary sources, etc. So sorry, but I don't know what your talking about.Aazealh said:Just give it up man... Whatever you do will be undone by someone else that thinks he knows better (regardless of whether he knows anything or not). Entries in an Encyclopedia are supposed to be written by experts on the topic the entry deals with[...] That's why the Berserk article in wikipedia will never be good, because anybody can edit it, and very few people know well enough about Berserk to write an Encyclopedia definition.
Jerome? "Berserk Encyclopedia, at your service"Akin said:that guy who i can't even remember the name of (and I'm not checking right now, so...).
CaSan said:Aazealh: Awesome stuff. Thanks!
Jerome? "Berserk Encyclopedia, at your service"
Akin said:edit: back to the main topic: Hrm, prior to seeing the um... snake (at first it just looked like a blob of water)... I thought he was able to "fast-cast" because he was able to use his power aquired from Gashanka to "cheat". So um.. does it bleed, and how can we kill it? yeah, i know, it doesn't appear to bleed, if you don't get what I said watch more older action movies
Akin said:As for why I read Wikipedia in general, it's because there are a lot of interesting, well written articles there. Of course, there's also a lot of room for improvement.
Akin said:As much as you'd all love it, more people are likely to find the Wikipedia artice on Berserk than find the Berserk encyclopedia, and I think these people deserve a good article.
Akin said:Personally, the berserk article sure looks a lot more useful than when I glanced at, say, the forums of ceritian other Berserk "communities"
Akin said:Oh, right, he could completely avoid the sea as much as possible, but having some kind of naval force would help at least, I would think. Depending on what his strategy is, of course. There are many things we don't know, is Daiba really the best sea general? I would assume so, but I could of course be wrong.
Akin said:Hrm, sounds like you think there is nothing usefull in any of the articles, meaning my view is unchangeably different from your own *shrug*.
Akin said:Hrm, prior to seeing the um... snake (at first it just looked like a blob of water)... I thought he was able to "fast-cast" because he was able to use his power aquired from Ganishka to "cheat".
Aazealh said:On a side note the water gun/tongue the snake used against Guts looks pretty dangerous, cutting the ship in half and all, they better be careful this time around.