The failure of American Comics: Why Berserk works

Walter

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
First and foremost:

-Spiderman: Clone Saga

-Superman Dies... Then DC sells 4 spin-off series of would-be supermen, but it turns out that they were all fakes. The real one is introduced 9/10 of the way through the arc...

-Spawn (nothing personal...but it just keeps going)

Then there are the forgettable ones:

-Fantastic Four (anything published in the 90's)

-Punisher (post 1990)

-Bizarro's World

-"Neil Gaiman's" Technophage

-DC's blatant failure crossover: "ZERO HOUR"

Oh yeah...then theres Image


-Stormwatch (image)

-Prophet (image)

-Vanguard (image)

-Youngblood (image)

You know what, let me just go ahead and summarize: Rob Liefield.

I could go on...but this is far enough.
 
C

crazyCelt

Re: The failure of American Comics: Why Berserk wo

-Superman Dies... Then DC sells 4 spin-off series of would-be supermen, but it turns out that they were all fakes. The real one is introduced 9/10 of the way through the arc...
Click to expand...
Heh. I have all of these and the sad thing is I predicted it to end up like that. I was thinking Super Boy would be the best replacement but no... Superman is back in new spiffy black tights with a platinum "S".

-Spawn (nothing personal...but it just keeps going)
Click to expand...

I have like the first 30 and I really did like it but it just didn't have direction. I remember the costume change being one of the last ones I read.

Oh yeah...then theres Image


-Stormwatch (image)

-Prophet (image)

-Vanguard (image)

-Youngblood (image)

You know what, let me just go  ahead and summarize: Rob Liefield.
Click to expand...

Well, Image isn't nearly as bad Malibu Comics. I remember they released all these new "hip" heroes like Prime but I think you know where that went. At least Image has (had?) The Maxx. Dark Horse is pretty much the king of noir comics with Grendel and such. And on a random note, the original Judge Dredd series by 2000 AD is actually very good. Incidentally it's a British comic and you can tell by its wit.
 
C

CnC

Ad Oculos
Re: The failure of American Comics: Why Berserk wo

Spawn (nothing personal...but it just keeps going)
Click to expand...
i hate spawn... its an interesting concept... but you're right... its stupid without an ending

You forgot the back-breaking incident with batman.

that and the superman death got me into comics... when it became evident that superman was coming back and batman was healed... my interest vanished... so i pretty much dropped the comic book until i saw berserk.
 
Walter

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Re: The failure of American Comics: Why Berserk wo

Damn! How could I forget Knightfall?! And the great Azrael mini-series that was ruined beyond all hope of repair by making him the scapegoat for the "New Batman". Once again, good concept, they just didnt have the balls to pull it off.
 
F

Fishbomb

Fear the slightly white swordsman!
Re: The failure of American Comics: Why Berserk wo

Too true.

I can summarise some more 'whys' very easily:

1: Not creator owned comics. When you do not own the character you are working with, you can't build good stories. Unless you have the support of the editor...

2:Even if you have the support of the editor, the fans will bring you down because you are changing things they know and love. Take Legion of Superheroes for example. Poor Keith Giffen, one of the few purely original and daring american creators. Not a single time has he allowed to remain on a book. The Heckler, JLA, LSH... and so on and on...

3: The fans. Stupid, conservative, and vocal. At least enough of them to make editors and companies run off to cater to them.

4: Sales. You got to go where the buck is. Remind me to tell you of that sometime... that's a looong story.

5: Those comics that are creator owned, are really nothing but artists that tries to write. And really... they can't. So very few of them.

6: The culture. Comics in the US are comics for kids, and youths. Comics in japan, and in europe are for adaults as well. Hence people write challenging stuff, and dares to take risks.


But really... there's a lot of shite being published in japan as well, we're just lucky that there's so much good stuff too.
 
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Chinmi

The best defense is a good offence!
Re: The failure of American Comics: Why Berserk wo

I totally agree that alot of Americains comics suck. I use to be one of those people who read superhero comics until I mature and realized they suck. Now, I only buy non-superhero comics with great art.

Why does American comics suck:

-character doesn't evolve. They wear the same thing. Tights.
-characters rarly die.
-some art suck. Proprtion is unrealistic. Some layout of panel of comic is too simple. Not very cinematic.
-Unrealistic proportion of girls.
-same genre- superhero. How about medivel comics.
-expensive
-Alot of covers with chessy slogan.
-Repetive story. Doesn't take risk.
-Not alot of mature type comics.


A good book to read is "Understanding Comics" by Scott McDaneil. This book adress the problem with American comics and praise how good comics is in Japan and in Europe. I guess the condition in Japan, the artist gets alot of freedom over creative control.
 
R

roberto999

The Black Chick of Darkness
Re: The failure of American Comics: Why Berserk wo

Berserker, with the success has already taken the same way of the "dreaded american comics":look at the reprints of the first numbers of Action Comics, Detective Comics or Marvel Mistery Comics:whose were the bullets that bounced of Superman chest? manly by the police, and Batman how many thugs killed back then, he the dark knight with a code- against-killing?The submariner? it was criminals and innocent people alike let God sort them up. What happened then ? Success happened, and with succes all the eyes pointed on you.Then you can not displease anybody, it will be the sales that will suffer, so you don't please really anybody but that is secondary, and you cannot let your writers and artist on the loose, the dreaded aunt Mary is patrolling, so you have to make up with corny stories and who knows? Her nephew will grow up to became a corny super-hero himself,or is clone, or was he the clone of the clone?And with Gutts is the same:he no longer use old medic with deambulatin problems like soccer balls, no longer he gently offer the suicide knife to underaged girls, he not even tell ,as he did in the berserk prototype, up yours to a old woman, that however, had left very few time to livewhen she was desperate for the death of her nephew(yes you guessed right: the little thing(the nephew, that is) was devoured by a postle but that is another story) yes a rape now and then , if he manages to keep them tastefully, he can do and the usual cleavage in two of base villains and let see what else he can do? not much.
 
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crazyCelt

Re: The failure of American Comics: Why Berserk wo

Well that's kind of the opposite of what we're trying to say. One reason Berserk is better than a typical American comic is because Miura doesn't listen to the whims of his readers. Could you imagine Berserk with a mailbag section at the end? LOL!
 
C

Chinmi

The best defense is a good offence!
Re: The failure of American Comics: Why Berserk wo

Anyone looking forward to the The Spiderman and Blade 2 movie? I saw the trailer for both and they look good.
 
F

Frogacuda

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: The failure of American Comics: Why Berserk wo

One of the big reasons, too, is the way American comics are published. Small issues sold idividually at a crummy price in nerdy stores full of D&D players that the average guy wouldn't be caught dead in. The magazines manga is serialized in are usually huge volumes that sell for a couple bucks. Once or twice a month you get like 500 pages of assorted comics for a paltry sum. You can then buy volumes of your favorite comic for 400-600 yen. And they're sold in normal bookstores. If american comics had a more successful model like japanese comics they wouldn't have to constantly pull off ridiculous stunts just to sell issues.
 
F

Faust

Re: The failure of American Comics: Why Berserk wo

Anyone looking forward to the The Spiderman and Blade 2 movie?  I saw the trailer for both and they look good.
Click to expand...

I'm deffinitely going to wind up seeing Blade 2, I'm not even sure if I have a choice.

I've seen the previews for spiderman, and to me the computer graphics look like some of the worst I've ever seen.
 
K

Kenoh-Sama

"What is love? Not that I want some or anythi
Re: The failure of American Comics: Why Berserk wo

Too true.

I can summarise some more 'whys' very easily:

1: Not creator owned comics. When you do not own the character you are working with, you can't build good stories. Unless you have the support of the editor...

2:Even if you have the support of the editor, the fans will bring you down because you are changing things they know and love. Take Legion of Superheroes for example. Poor Keith Giffen, one of the few purely original and daring american creators. Not a single time has he allowed to remain on a book. The Heckler, JLA, LSH... and so on and on...

3: The fans. Stupid, conservative, and vocal. At least enough of them to make editors and companies run off to cater to them.

4: Sales. You got to go where the buck is. Remind me to tell you of that sometime... that's a looong story.

5: Those comics that are creator owned, are really nothing but artists that tries to write. And really... they can't. So very few of them.

6: The culture. Comics in the US are comics for kids, and youths. Comics in japan, and in europe are for adaults as well. Hence people write challenging stuff, and dares to take risks.


But really... there's a lot of shite being published in japan as well, we're just lucky that there's so much good stuff too.
Click to expand...


What else is bad about US comics?

Wizard.

That has to be the most inconsistant and hypocritical magazine.

One Month it's "They should kill off aunt May. She's like what? A 100 years old!"

Following month it's "How can they kill off aunt May! She's a vital part of the spiderman mythos! AAAHHHHH"

They control what young fanboys read.
 
C

Chinmi

The best defense is a good offence!
Re: The failure of American Comics: Why Berserk wo

Muira have full control of the story and the art. In Japan, the people is more lay back when it comes to violence so therefore, the comic there won't be censored out. Thats is why I favour manga more than US comics in terms on work condition.

Unlike Berserk, they get many artists to draw a character such as Spiderman in US. And a writer to write the story. In Japan, most creator does everything. He writes the story and draws it out. It must be a stressful job to a manga guy. What would u do if Muira hired some other artist to draw Berserk? That would not be good, right?
 
Olivier_Hague

Olivier_Hague

Re: The failure of American Comics: Why Berserk wo

Mangaka _don't_ have full control.
I don't know about Miura though... I guess he has a "special status", since he's probably the lead author of Young Animal, a manga magazine that's not really what you'd call "major"...
 
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