was skull knight/gaiseric possibly a daimon or was going to be set up to be a daimon

[manvsdestiny]

I remember @Aaezealh said something about skullknight refusing to die/move on even after death we have seen guts refusing the destiny that was bestowed onto him by the threads of causality despite this guts never has died he is kinda dead according to the astral world but in the physical hes a living and breathing man making him unique in the world of berserk.The details of how what really happened 1,000 years ago is to this day unknown but gaiseric definitely died and refused his fate

He asserted that Daimons were humans of the Golden Age who had become spirits acting as guardians to mortal men. That fits with what Gedflynn says about how some human heroes attained that status.

That said, not all of them are former humans,

Unless gaiseric was a wizard or practicer of a magic which is said that magic users can avoid the vortex of souls it could mean maybe he was a daimon and his situation is more rare/unique than guts.I know this theory is gonna get roasted hard and has flaws but it was just something i thought of over time and skullknight is simply in this condition because the armor Hanrarr made and some other missing peices to this puzzle.

 

[Aazealh]

we have seen guts refusing the destiny that was bestowed onto him by the threads of causality despite this guts never has died he is kinda dead according to the astral world but in the physical hes a living and breathing man making him unique in the world of berserk.

Your use of the word "destiny" is confusing here. Guts wasn't expected to survive the Eclipse, but there is no mystical force like "fate" or "destiny" that had decreed he should die and tried to make it so. This isn't "Final Destination".

He is also not "kinda dead". Not sure where you got that. And he's not unique: Casca shares the exact same condition.

The details of how what really happened 1,000 years ago is to this day unknown but gaiseric definitely died and refused his fate

Well, we do know it was Flora who brought him back, with the help of a magical armor crafted by Hanaar. He didn't just return from the dead on his own through sheer force of will.

Unless gaiseric was a wizard or practicer of a magic which is said that magic users can avoid the vortex of souls it could mean maybe he was a daimon and his situation is more rare/unique than guts.

You seem confused. I'm not sure where your idea that "magic users can avoid the Vortex of Souls" comes from other than Flora's case, and in her case, she did become a Daimon, so the two aren't opposed.

Also, the idea that Gaizeric could have been a "Daimon candidate" is the first thing I mentioned when we learned of the concept. There's no clear indication of it, but given how Daimons are described, it seems pretty natural that the legendary emperor who conquered the whole continent would become one.

There is one issue, however: Gaizeric was likely branded, and therefore cursed to end up in the Vortex of Souls. In that case, it's unclear how combining these two things would work, but my guess is that he would not have been able to properly become a Daimon. The way I've always pictured it is that he lingered in the ethereal world, maybe fighting off those "strands" of dead souls that would have assimilated him and brought him into the fold, until Flora came and rescued him.

 

[manvsdestiny]

And he's not unique: Casca shares the exact same condition.

well their unique in the sense that only apostles,mages and those two and sk exist in the interstice as far as whats given

 

[Gilbert]

Your use of the word "destiny" is confusing here. Guts wasn't expected to survive the Eclipse, but there is no mystical force like "fate" or "destiny" that had decreed he should die and tried to make it so. This isn't "Final Destination".

I actually disagree here Aazealh, Guts and Casca were absolutely destined to die at the eclipse due to causality, we can tell this from Voids reaction to Skull Knight saving them.

He is also not "kinda dead". Not sure where you got that. And he's not unique: Casca shares the exact same condition.

They also do live in that grey area between life and death due to the brand. You’re right that Guts isn’t alone and Casca shares the same condition, but the description of “kinda dead” actually fits here. Guts is supposed to be dead, causality has deemed it so. Being able to touch the astral world like he and Casca could before the Great Roar is something that happens because he’s supposed to be dead.

I don’t think Skull Knight is a daimon, he may share some qualities, but the way I interpreted Elfhelm was that Skull Knight is solely clinging on to life because of his “grudge” and is able to do so because of the armor forged by Hanaar. I think all these phenomena are going to melt into each other and I’m super excited to see what the team has coming for the story.

 

[Aazealh]

I actually disagree here Aazealh, Guts and Casca were absolutely destined to die at the eclipse due to causality, we can tell this from Voids reaction to Skull Knight saving them.

We can't tell much from "Void's reaction" (if it can even be called that), actually, and definitely not that they were "absolutely destined to die" during the Eclipse. That aside, you shouldn't conflate destiny (which is what we were talking about) and causality.

They also do live in that grey area between life and death due to the brand. You’re right that Guts isn’t alone and Casca shares the same condition, but the description of “kinda dead” actually fits here.

No, saying Guts is "kinda dead" is completely wrong. The fact he exists within the interstice doesn't mean he's half-dead. You ought to double check your facts before entering a conversation to contradict people.

Guts is supposed to be dead, causality has deemed it so.

Nothing in the manga supports this assertion.

Being able to touch the astral world like he and Casca could before the Great Roar is something that happens because he’s supposed to be dead.

That's not at all what is explained in the manga, neither by the Skull Knight nor by Flora and Schierke. Guts and Casca don't "touch" the ethereal world, but are partly inside of it as a result of bearing the Brand of Sacrifice. They exist within the interstice between the corporeal and ethereal worlds. The term "realm of the dead" (which is most commonly used to refer to the ethereal world in Berserk) might be confusing you here, but it's not the same as being "between life and death".

 

[Gilbert]

No, saying Guts is "kinda dead" is completely wrong. The fact he exists within the interstice doesn't mean he's half-dead. You ought to double check your facts before entering a conversation to contradict people.

Sorry, I didn’t realize my addition discussion would offend you so much, I apologize.

Everything you asserted to prove me wrong can be answered by just one thing: Guts is branded. He was supposed to die at the eclipse. I’m not saying he’s “kinda dead” because of the fact he exists in the ethereal world as well as the physical, he's “kinda dead” because he was supposed to be killed and the fact he wasn’t is the reason he has to fight everyday against the astral realm.

We can't tell much from "Void's reaction" (if it can even be called that), actually, and definitely not that they were "absolutely destined to die" during the Eclipse. That aside, you shouldn't conflate destiny (which is what we were talking about) and causality.

Yea and I did get this part wrong, it was Ubiks reaction that makes me believe Guts was destined to die. Void might have something up his sleeve based on his reaction, but nothing has led me to believe Guts was destined to survive, it would change his whole character.

As of right now, the story is pointing towards Guts fighting against his destiny of death from the Godhand/apostles. He is the struggler after all, struggling against his predetermined death that was only changed by Skull Knight knowing the weakness of that destiny at temporal junction points.

That's not at all what is explained in the manga, neither by the Skull Knight nor by Flora and Schierke. Guts and Casca don't "touch" the ethereal world, but are partly inside of it as a result of bearing the Brand of Sacrifice. They exist within the interstice between the corporeal and ethereal worlds.

Yea I worded it wrong, when I said “touching“ I meant they were overlapping both worlds, just like you said.

I totally understand where you’re coming from and you seem very knowledgeable, it’s a story that can be interpreted many different ways, that’s what makes it so fucking amazing.

 

[Aazealh]

Everything you asserted to prove me wrong can be answered by just one thing: Guts is branded. He was supposed to die at the eclipse.

The brand isn't a sign someone should immediately die as decreed by some cosmic force. It's a mark of sacrifice applied during a magic ritual. It essentially acts as a curse. The reason those who get sacrificed are usually killed right there and then is because the ceremony is performed by and for monsters, but it's not a requirement. That's why the God Hand doesn't care that Guts and Casca live: it makes no difference to them.

I’m not saying he’s “kinda dead” because of the fact he exists in the ethereal world as well as the physical, he's “kinda dead” because he was supposed to be killed and the fact he wasn’t is the reason he has to fight everyday against the astral realm.

Well, that's wrong. See what the Skull Knight tells him at the end of volume 13. Because of the Brand, he exists in the Interstice between worlds, and as someone with a corporeal body, he's like "a torch in the darkness" to these spirits. That's the reason they haunt him ceaselessly. They crave that flesh. Flora also mentions it in volume 24. This is why I advised you to double check before replying.

nothing has led me to believe Guts was destined to survive, it would change his whole character.

Let me repeat the same thing I told @manvsdestiny: Your use of the word "destiny" is confusing here. Guts wasn't expected to survive the Eclipse, but there is no mystical force like "fate" or "destiny" that had decreed he should die and tried to make it so.

That goes for the reverse as well: there was no mystical force that decreed he should live. To put it simply: Guts is the master of his own destiny. He has found himself in a lot of bad situations over the course of his life, but he survived them through his own efforts and determination. While the Skull Knight did save him at the Eclipse, that was only possible because he had managed to survive up to that point. Flora puts it very nicely to Schierke in volume 24.

As of right now, the story is pointing towards Guts fighting against his destiny of death from the Godhand/apostles. He is the struggler after all, struggling against his predetermined death that was only changed by Skull Knight knowing the weakness of that destiny at temporal junction points.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying the story "point towards" that. Starting with volume 22, Guts undertook a long journey to bring Casca to Elfhelm so that they could be safe, and then so that her mind could be restored. That's what he fought for. Before that he spent a couple of years fighting for revenge, roaming the land in search of apostles to kill. And before that still, during the Golden Age, he was trying to find his place in the world, to give his life meaning. With Kentarou Miura's untimely decease, we'll never get to see the real ending Berserk was meant to have, but I believe it would have revolved not only around Guts' efforts to kill Femto, but also to save his son. To me, that's what the story is currently "pointing towards".

By the way, the Skull Knight called Guts a "struggler" in volume 9, before the Eclipse, in reference to the harsh life he had led until then, right from his birth. A harsh life that meant Guts was uniquely prepared to survive the Eclipse. It's not about "struggling against a predetermined fate", but about his crazy fighting prowess and survival instinct (which we do see at work during the Eclipse). Lastly, it's worth remembering that the Skull Knight barged in there primarily to attack the God Hand. As he tells Guts at the beginning of volume 14, saving him and Casca was "incidental".

 

[Gilbert]

The brand isn't a sign someone should immediately die as decreed by some cosmic force. It's a mark of sacrifice applied during a magic ritual. It essentially acts as a curse. The reason those who get sacrificed are usually killed right there and then is because the ceremony is performed by and for monsters, but it's not a requirement. That's why the God Hand doesn't care that Guts and Casca live: it makes no difference to them.



Well, that's wrong. See what the Skull Knight tells him at the end of volume 13. Because of the Brand, he exists in the Interstice between worlds, and as someone with a corporeal body, he's like "a torch in the darkness" to these spirits. That's the reason they haunt him ceaselessly. They crave that flesh. Flora also mentions it in volume 24. This is why I advised you to double check before replying.



Let me repeat the same thing I told @manvsdestiny: Your use of the word "destiny" is confusing here. Guts wasn't expected to survive the Eclipse, but there is no mystical force like "fate" or "destiny" that had decreed he should die and tried to make it so.

That goes for the reverse as well: there was no mystical force that decreed he should live. To put it simply: Guts is the master of his own destiny. He has found himself in a lot of bad situations over the course of his life, but he survived them through his own efforts and determination. While the Skull Knight did save him at the Eclipse, that was only possible because he had managed to survive up to that point. Flora puts it very nicely to Schierke in volume 24.



I'm not sure what you mean by saying the story "point towards" that. Starting with volume 22, Guts undertook a long journey to bring Casca to Elfhelm so that they could be safe, and then so that her mind could be restored. That's what he fought for. Before that he spent a couple of years fighting for revenge, roaming the land in search of apostles to kill. And before that still, during the Golden Age, he was trying to find his place in the world, to give his life meaning. With Kentarou Miura's untimely decease, we'll never get to see the real ending Berserk was meant to have, but I believe it would have revolved not only around Guts' efforts to kill Femto, but also to save his son. To me, that's what the story is currently "pointing towards".

By the way, the Skull Knight called Guts a "struggler" in volume 9, before the Eclipse, in reference to the harsh life he had led until then, right from his birth. A harsh life that meant Guts was uniquely prepared to survive the Eclipse. It's not about "struggling against a predetermined fate", but about his crazy fighting prowess and survival instinct (which we do see at work during the Eclipse). Lastly, it's worth remembering that the Skull Knight barged in there primarily to attack the God Hand. As he tells Guts at the beginning of volume 14, saving him and Casca was "incidental".

Totally get where you’re coming from, I disagree, but respect your take