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Berserk => Current Episodes => Topic started by: Uriel on November 07, 2004, 11:57:04 PM

Title: Episode 248
Post by: Uriel on November 07, 2004, 11:57:04 PM
Title: 武者 - Warrior (http://www.younganimal.com/berserk/sp/04v22.html)

(http://www.younganimal.com/berserk/sp/img/04v22.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Griffith on November 08, 2004, 12:07:20 AM
Wow, a real preview that looks fake. =)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Graywords on November 08, 2004, 01:00:07 AM
Title is "Musha" aka "Warrior". ^_^
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Rhombaad on November 08, 2004, 01:39:00 AM
Nice, sounds really close to the word "moosa", which is Korean for "warrior."  Finally, a pirate battle in Berserk, my dreams are slowly becoming a reality  ;D.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Smith on November 08, 2004, 05:27:13 AM
Warrior... Who does it trying to say? Mule, Isidro, Pirates leader  :o?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Rhombaad on November 08, 2004, 06:10:13 AM
I'm hoping it's Isidro, I wanna see this kid take down the cap'n.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 08, 2004, 07:14:56 AM
Wow, a real preview that looks fake. =)

Uhh yeah, quite the low quality, seems like they put it up as quickly as possible. I hope it won't look like that in the finished episode...

Anyway, from the looks of it, Mule will be the one to fight the pirate captain, at least at first.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Vizio on November 08, 2004, 07:15:55 AM
That pirate captain will be in Griffith´s army?
Nah, nevermind.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Uriel on November 08, 2004, 08:23:18 AM
Quote from: Aazealh
Uhh yeah, quite the low quality, seems like they put it up as quickly as possible. I hope it won't look like that in the finished episode...
Looks like the Horse is beeming back to the Enterprise :P
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Smith on November 08, 2004, 09:19:57 AM
That pirate captain will be in Griffith´s army?


Yeah... would that be great?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: BOB on November 08, 2004, 10:44:56 AM
GOMU GOMU BAAAAAZOOOKAAAAAAA


(Sorry got excited)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Freddy C on November 08, 2004, 10:47:08 AM
very cool, i think Isidro will be the warrior here, or the guy on the horse.

but what i really what to see is Guts to kick the crap out of this guy.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Jon Schaffer on November 08, 2004, 11:32:28 AM
Thanks Uriel!

This episode looks too odd for me to even take a stab at.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: MaN on November 08, 2004, 03:43:29 PM

Looks like the Horse is beeming back to the Enterprise :P

and the rope dissolves in thin air... spoooky  :o
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Smith on November 09, 2004, 01:47:20 AM
Somehow they purposely did it so that it will not reveal much... But why?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Uriel on November 09, 2004, 07:59:17 PM
Somehow they purposely did it so that it will not reveal much... But why?
I'm sensing something sinister is afoot.. something like dialgoue!
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Griffith on November 09, 2004, 08:38:01 PM
Seriously, what is going on with the horse's head!?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Uriel on November 09, 2004, 09:34:30 PM
Speah bubble dude.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Griffith on November 09, 2004, 09:51:48 PM
Speah bubble dude.

In the past they've just erased what's in the bubble. And from the looks of the quality, I don't think they put special effort into this one. What story ruining spolier does the horse have to say anyway? :)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Uriel on November 09, 2004, 10:16:27 PM
"I am Casca's demon child" perhaps? It's a solid pre-chapter theory ;)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: aufond on November 10, 2004, 12:01:24 AM
This episode looks like it is going to be rated ARRRRR!
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Rhombaad on November 10, 2004, 12:13:54 AM
Aye, with plenty of sea turtles!  ;D
...
...
...
Ladies and Gentlemen, I apologize for the above reference to Pirates of the Carribean.  No further references will be made on my part.  Thank you for your time and good night.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Smith on November 10, 2004, 02:25:09 AM
Well enough of all the quality stuff... Back to the topic: is Mule really going to fight that old haggard filthy one legged bastard?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Akujin on November 10, 2004, 03:53:31 AM
Is mule kneeling before the pirate or did the pirate knock him off of his horse with that rope?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on November 10, 2004, 04:37:52 AM
did the pirate knock him off of his horse with that rope?

Bingo.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Headless Death on November 10, 2004, 10:02:07 AM
I think isidro will be the one
Quote
to fight that old haggard filthy one legged bastard.
Either that or he will be forced to cooperate with Mule. ;D
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Rhombaad on November 10, 2004, 02:41:47 PM
I think it's more likely that the group of four will cooperate with each other rather than just one of 'em fighting the pirate guy.  If he turns into an Apostle, then I'd expect Guts to show up at the last minute to save 'em.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Smith on November 10, 2004, 03:32:35 PM
Well i do believe he is not...
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Rhombaad on November 10, 2004, 06:10:09 PM
Well i do believe he is not...
At this point there's no way to know for sure.  We'll just have to wait for Friday.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Olivier Hague on November 11, 2004, 02:32:19 AM
At this point there's no way to know for sure.
And there's absolutely no reason to believe he's an Apostle, really. -__-;
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Griffith on November 11, 2004, 04:08:58 AM
And there's absolutely no reason to believe he's an Apostle, really. -__-;

Is that a summary or just an observation? ;D
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Olivier Hague on November 11, 2004, 08:38:05 AM
Is that a summary or just an observation? ;D
Just an observation.
A summary would be something like "Azan".
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: *Gyom* on November 11, 2004, 08:45:05 AM
 :o
Eventually... what was foretold is to happen... massive!
Guil
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Griffith on November 11, 2004, 09:19:12 AM
Just an observation.
A summary would be something like "Azan".

 :o
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 11, 2004, 09:37:09 AM
A summary would be something like "Azan".

Fuck yeah! 8)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Rhombaad on November 11, 2004, 12:54:54 PM
A summary would be something like "Azan".
Sweeeeeeeet....
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Mage on November 11, 2004, 02:08:06 PM

Just an observation.
A summary would be something like "Azan".

Badass  8)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Uriel on November 11, 2004, 02:58:21 PM
A summary would be something like "Azan".
Best bit of news I've heard all day ;D

(http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/YaBBImages/avatars/azan.gif)
"I pity the foo' who be swashbucklin' dem shorties!"
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Majin Tenshi on November 11, 2004, 06:01:17 PM
Bu... But where are they gonna get magical equiptment for Azan?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: *Gyom* on November 11, 2004, 06:03:43 PM
Azan is already magical by himself, he cannot die, so why would he care about childish magic ?  8)
Guil
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: QUeeN typhonblue on November 11, 2004, 06:18:05 PM
Bu... But where are they gonna get magical equiptment for Azan?

Schierke?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 11, 2004, 06:22:00 PM
Schierke?

Yeah, she's got the elemental axe in her purse.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: IgnusDei on November 11, 2004, 06:25:42 PM
Azan is back?

GLEE!
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Walter on November 11, 2004, 06:49:05 PM
Excellent. Been waiting for this for a while.

(http://skullknight.net/images/dia01nenga.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Majin Tenshi on November 11, 2004, 07:03:17 PM
Musta've been quite a while, Guts' armor needs updateing amoung other things...   ;)

Anyways, even if they were lugging around the axe, Azan uses a big metal quarterstaff (old faq says spear, trust the new one).  It wouldn't suprise me at all if he had the same philosophy about changeing weapons as Guts. 

'Course, quarterstaffs have often been associated with mages.  Maybe Schierke knows a "magic quarterstaff, just add water" spell. 

There are other possibilities that do not include Azan joining Guts.  Maybe he'll join Griffith, or maybe he allready has.  If thats the case, he might try to drag Farnese off.  Ohwell, we'll see... we'll see...
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: dwarfkicker on November 11, 2004, 07:51:35 PM
Quote
Maybe he'll join Griffith, or maybe he allready has.
Now that would be something.

Nice pic Walter.

It wouldn't surpise me if Azan were to join up with Guts.  After all he was thinking about traveling with them after the rebirth festival.  Or was that a shitty translation from the hawks.org?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Rhombaad on November 11, 2004, 08:16:29 PM
After all he was thinking about traveling with them after the rebirth festival.  Or was that a shitty translation from the hawks.org?

With them, you never know for sure.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: dwarfkicker on November 11, 2004, 11:31:54 PM
That's true.  They got upset at the proper names of the characters.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Saiki on November 12, 2004, 03:55:55 AM
After all he was thinking about traveling with them after the rebirth festival.  Or was that a shitty translation from the hawks.org?

shitty translation
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: QUeeN typhonblue on November 12, 2004, 04:14:20 AM


Yeah, she's got the elemental axe in her purse.

Where did Flora get hers? Mail-order?

Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Majin Tenshi on November 12, 2004, 05:49:25 AM
Where did Flora get hers? Mail-order?
Probably made it, or at least enchanted it herself... or maybe Skully killed something that was useing it and left it with her for safekeeping.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Smith on November 12, 2004, 06:44:24 AM
Azan back finally!!!!  :D


Is he fighting that pirates... hmmm that was be cool



Anyway Walt that pic of your show no respect for Schierke  >:( :D
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Kart on November 12, 2004, 07:54:54 AM
Christ smith, if anything your english has gotten worse.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 12, 2004, 11:45:04 AM
Great episode as usual.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Yab on November 12, 2004, 11:50:16 AM
Thx,luv
Now, I'm countin on Saiki-Sama  ^^b
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Sparnage on November 12, 2004, 12:43:44 PM
Christ smith, if anything your english has gotten worse.

You do realise that English isn't Smiths first language, right?
Title: Re: Episode 248 Translation
Post by: Yab on November 12, 2004, 01:04:29 PM
this aint good......
http://imageuploading.com/041112/1100268429.jpg (http://imageuploading.com/041112/1100268429.jpg)

I wanna do a lil help
It's done by myself^^
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Boon on November 12, 2004, 01:45:58 PM
GOD!!!!

The frame showing the pirate captain tearing off the poor sod's hand looks DARN FRIGGIN' PAINFUL!!!!!

Yeah so it happens that 99% of the frames in this manga depicts pain in creative ways but still...
Title: Re: Episode 248 Translation
Post by: Aazealh on November 12, 2004, 02:52:30 PM
this aint good......
http://imageuploading.com/041112/1100268429.jpg (http://imageuploading.com/041112/1100268429.jpg)

I don't think Schierke will accept Sonja's proposition to come with them, well, we'll see. I wonder if Azan will team up with Guts anyway, seeing how he stayed behind (with Guts watching) when Mule, Sonja, Isidro and Schierke led the Kushan kids out of the town.

PS: That's where the episode title come from. :P

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Musashi_Puck.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: MaN on November 12, 2004, 03:29:53 PM
The frame showing the pirate captain tearing off the poor sod's hand looks DARN FRIGGIN' PAINFUL!!!!!

I think someone cut off the captain pirates lips. His teeth are always showing and I would have thought that the wooden leg would have allowed him to float..

and lastly Azan sitting under covers in a boat... thats just great. i mean talk about a bad indian movie cliche'.... Miura thinking "hmmm how do i get azan back in the story without much effort. I got it! he is just sitting under the covers complete with his armor, his feathery musctache and his staff. yes thats it... that brilliant"
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Uriel on November 12, 2004, 03:49:06 PM
Azan is the man!! He must have been sleeping there since volume 21 :D
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Miyu on November 12, 2004, 03:57:47 PM
Azan is the man!! He must have been sleeping there since volume 21 :D

I'd believe it.  That was certainly a grand reentrance into the story.  Though my favorite part of this episode has to be Guts chillin' in the alley thinking "I guess I'm not needed here."
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Fletch on November 12, 2004, 04:39:46 PM
sweeeeeet. Haven't seen Azan in way too long.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Yab on November 12, 2004, 04:45:52 PM
Waitin is killin me
http://imageuploading.com/041112/1100281606.jpg
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: MaN on November 12, 2004, 05:22:06 PM
Waitin is killin me
http://imageuploading.com/041112/1100281606.jpg

Hold on to your horses...  ;D (gets chased out of the room for a bad pun)

Any I am seriously offended by your stereotyping of respectable pirates. I think this is the actual conversation.

Captain: My teeth have big gaps and it hurts a lot because of the cavities but I am afraid of the dentist.
Captain: I was wondering if one of you can give me some cloves to help me with the pain
Henchman: (what do you know about pain...idiot)
Henchman: Sir! can you teach these noble gentlemen a good lesson. Might I suggest a nice spanking?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Woland on November 12, 2004, 05:22:44 PM
Thanks Aazealh

I wonder how long Guts was watching.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: THE BEAST on November 12, 2004, 05:43:40 PM
Thanks Aazealh, that was a fun episode
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Griffith on November 12, 2004, 07:41:57 PM
I'd believe it.  That was certainly a grand reentrance into the story.  Though my favorite part of this episode has to be Guts chillin' in the alley thinking "I guess I'm not needed here."

Or wondering about Mule and Sonja... particularly the sigul on Mule's chest.

But yes, the one Guts shot did steal the show. =)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Metal Soldier on November 12, 2004, 08:16:41 PM
Thanks for the episode to all those involved. Things seem to be getting even more interesting. I can't wait to see where Miura is going with all this.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: *Gyom* on November 12, 2004, 08:31:39 PM
Wow thanks.
Azan is a freak ! 8)
Anyway for the Guts thing, am I the only one to wonder why he is alone ? He could have entrust Casca to Farnese and Serpico for them to enter an inn, but i don't buy it somehow.
So will we see Guts helping Azan to defeat the rest of the pirates and have a chat with him ? Will we see a conflict involving Mule and Sonja ? Thats what i wondering now...
Guil
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: DemonX on November 12, 2004, 11:30:54 PM
Azan to the rescue!

How did everyone know that azan would be in the port town  ::)?

Damn though, that pirate captain is a freak. Hes having his way with the little boys.

Its understandable though if azan was tracking the pirates for some time because his whole thing about protecting women and children.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Griffith on November 13, 2004, 03:01:01 AM
Wow thanks.
Azan is a freak ! 8)
Anyway for the Guts thing, am I the only one to wonder why he is alone ? He could have entrust Casca to Farnese and Serpico for them to enter an inn, but i don't buy it somehow.
So will we see Guts helping Azan to defeat the rest of the pirates and have a chat with him ?

It doesn't look like Azan needs any help, and Guts isn't too overly-friendly about chatting up old "buddies." I can see them maybe recognizing eachother and exchanging pleasantries in the next chapter (I'm sure Azan would like to follow up on Farnese), but we know how Miura loves to cocktease. This might just be Azan's re-introduction so that he can join up with Guts and co. a few chapters down the line. More likely Guts is more interested in Schierke's new friends...

I say it's 50/50 odds.

How did everyone know that azan would be in the port town  ::)?

It was the perfect time and place really, almost obvious that if we were going to see him again, it would be there... and the postcard never lies. ;)

BTW, was anybody else struck by Isidro's comical act of cold-blooded murder? =)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on November 13, 2004, 03:05:58 AM
BTW, was anybody else struck by Isidro's comical act of cold-blooded murder? =)

I couldn't stop the laughing.  ;D
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Smith on November 13, 2004, 03:46:23 AM
Christ smith, if anything your english has gotten worse.

Thanks for the compliment... If anything you are more and more boring (if not irritating).

WTH, I wanted to discuss about the new topic also but you suddenly appear out of nowhere (after disappearing for so long) in the middle of the hot discussion and then critised my English.

If you think so highly of yourself, go and join a forum that specifically discuss about professional English... This is a manga board.

By the way, what is Azan doing here? :P
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 13, 2004, 09:40:04 AM
WTH, I wanted to discuss about the new topic also but you suddenly appear out of nowhere (after disappearing for so long) in the middle of the hot discussion and then critised my English.

Smith has a point. No more replies about this or they'll be deleted.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: roberto999 on November 13, 2004, 10:17:35 AM

Mule - But what do you plan on doing with these kids?

Sonja - Of course

page 18

Sonja - We'll take them back to our place
(omissis)
Sonja - And our leader isn't so stingy to complain about small things like this
(omissis)
Mule - Alright. Let's take them to the Hawks...

Now if Guts was hiding there already when Mule said this  and he has good ears, he knows now who Mule and Sonja really are and that Griffith is nearby
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 13, 2004, 10:32:08 AM
Now if Guts was hiding there already when Mule said this and he has good ears, he knows now who Mule and Sonja really are and that Griffith is nearby

This discussion took place once they were outside of the town, so I don't think Guts followed and listened, and there aren't any spots where he could really hide anyway.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: BiQ-- on November 13, 2004, 11:14:15 AM
I'm curious to see what happens when/if Azan meets up with Farnese and Serpico... is he going to try to persuade them to "come back home" or fight them as they're traitors/deserters/what-have-you or just shrug  it off and utters something about youth of these days?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on November 13, 2004, 12:00:59 PM
is he going to try to persuade them to "come back home" or fight them as they're traitors/deserters/what-have-you or just shrug  it off and utters something about youth of these days?

I have the strangest feeling he wouldn't care that they left. He'd probably see what's up.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Smith on November 13, 2004, 12:05:10 PM

Lol Aaz merge my post together it look weird...

Anyway...


This discussion took place once they were outside of the town, so I don't think Guts followed and listened, and there aren't any spots where he could really hide anyway.

I do suspect he did heard something though not all... I might be wrong but i dont feel it normal for Guts to be hiding in a corner and had this "......" expression


I'm curious to see what happens when/if Azan meets up with Farnese and Serpico... is he going to try to persuade them to "come back home" or fight them as they're traitors/deserters/what-have-you or just shrug  it off and utters something about youth of these days?

He is probably going to join them  :D
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: MaN on November 13, 2004, 12:42:52 PM

By the way, what is Azan doing here? :P

Nothing... its a grand entry and that is about all that is. Here is my impression of how the story has moved forward in the last 4 episodes

(http://www.stevecarter.com/notalent/talentpic3.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 13, 2004, 01:29:54 PM
Nothing... its a grand entry and that is about all that is. Here is my impression of how the story has moved forward in the last 4 episodes

Yeah well you know what? We got your "impression" the first time you posted it, so stop repeating yourself already ("uhh, the wooden leg should make him float").

4 episodes of character development? Yeah it's useless, and it's about pointless, minor characters anyway. What we need is Guts killing his friends and fighting apostle after apostle until he reaches Griffith, that's what you mean?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Freddy C on November 13, 2004, 02:10:38 PM
not many people has mentioned the pirate yet, i was a bit disappointed that he wasn't all he's cracked up to be, i think he's so going to make a re-entrance sometime in the future. they can't just waste a new character like that.

azan coming back is pretty cool, i kinda weren't suprised, he showed that he is highly motivated earlier on lol.

there is something up with Guts i think, i don't think it's because he doesn't wabt to meet with azan, there's more to that, i know for a fact he ain't the kind of person to pass on a sword swinging.

and finally as for schierke, im not sure, i don't think she's going to abandon Guts and co. but her curiosity may have the better of her. and i feel sorry for the kushan kids, they are all going to be hawk members now.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 13, 2004, 02:31:00 PM
not many people has mentioned the pirate yet, i was a bit disappointed that he wasn't all he's cracked up to be, i think he's so going to make a re-entrance sometime in the future. they can't just waste a new character like that.

Seriously, he was all wrecked up from the start, missing a leg and all, it was obvious that he wouldn't live past this episode... I'll quote myself on it:

He probably can't take any blow from Guts, or even Serpico actually, and is just there as a kind of "boss" for the kids to fight against (remember the Troll Chieftain ?).
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: BiQ-- on November 13, 2004, 02:36:49 PM

there is something up with Guts i think, i don't think it's because he doesn't wabt to meet with azan, there's more to that, i know for a fact he ain't the kind of person to pass on a sword swinging.


In his current condition, I'd bet that he's very thankful for every opportunity to NOT fight and just get to the Elfhelm without too much attention. Which does not mean he'd hesitate to swing DS around a bit when situation necessitates.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Rhombaad on November 13, 2004, 03:05:37 PM
BTW, was anybody else struck by Isidro's comical act of cold-blooded murder? =)

It's one of the funniest things I've seen in a while  :P.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: MaN on November 13, 2004, 03:56:41 PM
4 episodes of character development? Yeah it's useless, and it's about pointless, minor characters anyway. What we need is Guts killing his friends and fighting apostle after apostle until he reaches Griffith, that's what you mean?

I don't know why you get offended with a little criticism. What wrong with saying that the some chapters are just not as good as others and I don't always care to see Guts fighting. In fact in some earlier chapters there was too much of apostle-slaying and very little character developlment.

What I meant was that Miura is introducing characters and then immediately dropping them (Captain) and i don't care what you say, the entry of Azan was very contrived. May be that was done to be humorous but I didn't think so.

I just hope that there is actually some point in saving the Kushan kids and entry of Azan and everyone meeting up but for now he is not telling us much....
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Saiki on November 13, 2004, 04:06:13 PM
I'm curious to see what happens when/if Azan meets up with Farnese and Serpico... is he going to try to persuade them to "come back home" or fight them as they're traitors/deserters/what-have-you or just shrug  it off and utters something about youth of these days?

Just my speculation but most likely, Azan prolly reported that Farnese and Serpico died at the tower.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: LordofMasks on November 13, 2004, 04:23:21 PM
Great Chapter...and its finally getting interesting again...hope next Chapter is also gooood.... 8)

lordofmasks
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 13, 2004, 04:24:07 PM
I don't know why you get offended with a little criticism. What wrong with saying that the some chapters are just not as good as others and I don't always care to see Guts fighting.

It's more like I'm bored after your 3rd post on the matter actually. And could you detail in what these episodes aren't as good as the previous ones please?

What I meant was that Miura is introducing characters and then immediately dropping them (Captain) and i don't care what you say, the entry of Azan was very contrived. May be that was done to be humorous but I didn't think so.

Boohoo, the uber pirate captain is gone already. :'( What, did you expect him to be an apostle?

As for Azan, well, I found it quite funny, and I think it's how Miura wanted it to be. It's not like he forgot how to make good character entrances after 15 years IMHO, but that's not your opinion, apparently.

I just hope that there is actually some point in saving the Kushan kids and entry of Azan and everyone meeting up but for now he is not telling us much....

Well, I think there's a point like there has been a point to 98% of what happened in the manga so far. Who knows though, maybe the story's gone to shit suddenly, I mean when was the last time Casca got raped? ::)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: MaN on November 13, 2004, 05:04:35 PM
("uhh, the wooden leg should make him float").
That was meant to be funny too but I guess you are more interested in flaming  ;D

Quote
It's not like he forgot how to make good character entrances after 15 years.
So in your opinion the reimmergence of any old character requires a grand entrance..

Quote
Well, I think there's a point like there has been a point to 98% of what happened in the manga so far.
Agreed. The bulk of 2% however coming from the last few volumes.

And could you detail in what these episodes aren't as good as the previous ones please?

Well for one thing that the story has somewhat shifted from being about Guts. May be that should be expected since Miura was always impressed with Guin Saga and in that too Kurimoto forgot about Guin in the middle of the story (for about 30 volumes!!). Small digressions are important for a good story but the whole plot should not digress.

You think it hasn't and I think it has, you think manga is still awesome and so do I so lets just leave it at that. Sorry mate!
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Yab on November 13, 2004, 05:08:41 PM
its gettin hot here……
(http://dyx.game-toys.com/LeadBBS/images/upload/2004/11/13/140049.jpg)
(http://www.kaca.com.cn/photo%2Frince09%2F246%2F2004112211917%2Ejpg)
(http://dyx.game-toys.com/LeadBBS/images/upload/2004/11/13/124547.jpg)
(http://dyx.game-toys.com/LeadBBS/images/upload/2004/11/13/135453.jpg)(http://www.kaca.com.cn/photo%2Frince09%2F246%2F200411218644%2Ejpg)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: MaN on November 13, 2004, 05:12:21 PM
awesome work Yab.. Azan looks quite fiery with those red eyes
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Yab on November 13, 2004, 05:15:42 PM
awesome work Yab.. Azan looks quite fiery with those red eyes
I guess hes in berserker mode(becuz he's not have food fo 1 week)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 13, 2004, 06:05:12 PM
That was meant to be funny too but I guess you are more interested in flaming  ;D

Isn't it a bit late to reply to that? ::) Great humor by the way.

So in your opinion the reimmergence of any old character requires a grand entrance..

It seems like you didn't understand what I meant in the line you quoted...

Agreed. The bulk of 2% however coming from the last few volumes.

That kind of stupid and provocative statement, lacking any form of argumentation, is the reason I replied to you in the first place. Your opinion isn't worth anything if you don't back it up with actual facts.

Well for one thing that the story has somewhat shifted from being about Guts.

That's not what I call a reason, and the story's still about Guts, even if he hasn't been on every page for 2 episodes (i.e. when Locus talks to Ganishka in Wyndham, it's not about Guts). Now you probably meant that he met people and actually *gasp* talked to them instead of trying to kill them? And now they get to be a part of the story (the problem being that it's not really new, that 9 volumes flashback totally digressed from the Black Swordsman Arc for example!), while all these good characters with a huge potential like the pirate captain are wasted!

Small digressions are important for a good story but the whole plot should not digress.

In what has the main plot digressed specifically in the recent episodes? Guts just reached Vritannis, the town he's been traveling to (in order to reach Elfhelm) for the last 6 volumes. He's got people with him now because he can't take care of Casca while alone, and he's been wounded while fighting against Slan. OMG the digression!

Can you tell me what's the main plot of Berserk anyway?

You think it hasn't and I think it has, you think manga is still awesome and so do I so lets just leave it at that. Sorry mate!

Let's leave it at the fact you won't post 5 times just to say you didn't like this episode while having no argumentation anymore. You can send me a PM if you care to go on arguing, constructively this time.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Boon on November 13, 2004, 07:08:25 PM
Yab, you have a standing ovation from me. That's some brilliant work you have done on the colors. What did you use, Photoshop? Must have taken you heck of a lot of time. I tried a single frame and it was enough to exhaust me.  :P
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Majin Tenshi on November 13, 2004, 07:22:19 PM
i don't care what you say, the entry of Azan was very contrived.
causality
cau·sal·i·ty    ( P )  (kô-zl-t)
n. pl. cau·sal·i·ties
1. The principle of or relationship between cause and effect.
2. A causal agency, force, or quality.
3. The agency of a cause; the action or power of a cause, in producing its effect.
The causality of the divine mind. --Whewell.
4.  (Phren.) The faculty of tracing effects to their causes. --G. Combe
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: MaN on November 13, 2004, 07:42:21 PM

causality
cau·sal·i·ty    ( P )  (kô-zl-t)
n. pl. cau·sal·i·ties
1. The principle of or relationship between cause and effect.
2. A causal agency, force, or quality.
3. The agency of a cause; the action or power of a cause, in producing its effect.
The causality of the divine mind. --Whewell.
4.  (Phren.) The faculty of tracing effects to their causes. --G. Combe

0. Some things are caused.
1. Nothing can cause itself.
2. Therefore, everything that is caused is caused by something other than itself.
3. A causal chain cannot stretch infinitely backward in time.
4. If the causal chain cannot stretch infinitely backward in time, there must be a first cause.
5. The word God means uncaused first cause
6. Therefore, God exists...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_argument
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 13, 2004, 07:47:38 PM
It's nice but off topic and admittedly old and busted, plus fatally flawed. Let's try to keep the thread on rails please guys.

In an effort to do so: What do you guys think of the newborn rivalry between Mule and Isidro? Will Guts reveal himself to Azan? How will Schierke and Sonja react if they have to face each other later on?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Boon on November 13, 2004, 08:22:00 PM
What do you guys think of the newborn rivalry between Mule and Isidro? How will Schierke and Sonja react if they have to face each other later on?

Very interesting. Now that you have pointed this out it would seem that the story is moving towards the direction of individual face-off in the final battle - Black vs White

Guts vs Griffith
Skullknight vs Zodd
Mule vs Isidro
Schierke vs Sonja
Casca vs ???
Hanafubuku vs ??? (Kushan King maybe)
Serpico vs ??? 
Azan vs ???
Farnese vs ???
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: kimchan on November 13, 2004, 09:14:07 PM
Very neat chapter.  It wasn't exactly profound or anything, but it seems to be setting up a lot of interesting stuff to come, so I'm not complaining.  And the postcard finally came true! (I don't care if Azan's entrance was contrived or not, it was still really cool.)   

To MaN, please stop with the whining.  Berserk has expanded, there's more to it now than just Guts and his journey.  The plot is dealing with the more widespread invasion of Midland, it can't only revolve around him anymore (and it never really has if you consider the early volumes that dealt with the war with Chuda/Tudor/whatever you want to call them.)  If you want to complain about how saving the kids was pointless, then complain about the pointlessness of fighting trolls, fighting Roshinu, the ogre, the kelpie, the golems, etc. etc.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Olivier Hague on November 13, 2004, 10:12:05 PM
not many people has mentioned the pirate yet, i was a bit disappointed that he wasn't all he's cracked up to be
...

What I meant was that Miura is introducing characters and then immediately dropping them (Captain)
......
Quote
and i don't care what you say, the entry of Azan was very contrived. May be that was done to be humorous but I didn't think so.
.........
Quote
I just hope that there is actually some point in saving the Kushan kids and entry of Azan and everyone meeting up but for now he is not telling us much....
............

*sigh*

ANYWAY.
Am I the only one who's a bit surprised that Schierke doesn't seem to be realizing that Sonja's "falcon" is the Falcon?
After all, she saw the guy back in volume 22, and he was freeing a city from the Kushan with the help of Apostles...
And I'd expect her to be more reactive to the mention of a "falcon". After all, the Falcon is responsible for her current journey in more ways than one... I mean, sure, she's not Guts, and she never said anything about "revenge" or anything like that, but she gets upset about her hat... and that Falcon guy ordered Flora's death (he sent a dragon, as a matter of fact).
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 13, 2004, 10:20:18 PM
Am I the only one who's a bit surprised that Schierke doesn't seem to be realizing that Sonja's "falcon" is the Falcon?

Well, I was also wondering about that actually, it's true that she doesn't really look like "she knows it and hides it". But I think she'll get it sooner or later, it's kind of obvious, especially considering Sonja's tale, and Schierke's not an idiot.

After all, she saw the guy back in volume 22, and he was freeing a city from the Kushan with the help of Apostles...

And even Sonja herself was there already, standing next to Griffith.

(he sent a dragon, as a matter of fact).

Heh, nice reference.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Griffith on November 13, 2004, 10:22:18 PM
I know I'm not an admin so it's not my place to regulate, but could A.D.D. inflicted boobs, that having nothing to say and don't have any feeling for storytelling, pacing, or even an understanding of the psychological (that means in your head BTW) consequences of having the story come out at 20 page intervals every 2 to 4 weeks, stop second-guessing Miura, please. Especially when it's painfully clear you have no idea what you're talking about. It's so very painful when people try to play literary critic and make fools of themselves when everyone thing they say is wrong just highlights how much they didn't actually see. If you can't see the story, simple, don't bother reading it, and certainly don't talk about it. The only good substitute for intelligence is silence.

So SHADDUP! ;)




My name is Griffith, and I approve this message, and it is directed at no man in particular. 8)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Olivier Hague on November 13, 2004, 10:31:13 PM
I think she'll get it sooner or later, it's kind of obvious, especially considering Sonja's tale, and Schierke's not an idiot.
Even the Skull Knight complimented her about that... Which is why I think it's a bit weird how she doesn't seem to be suspicious at all, so far...
Quote
And even Sonja herself was there already, standing next to Griffith.
Yeah, I know... But then again, who can blame her for not noticing her back then? Even we, the readers, didn't really know that she would become a regular character. ^^
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Griffith on November 13, 2004, 10:32:34 PM
*sigh*

ANYWAY.
Am I the only one who's a bit surprised that Schierke doesn't seem to be realizing that Sonja's "falcon" is the Falcon?
After all, she saw the guy back in volume 22, and he was freeing a city from the Kushan with the help of Apostles...
And I'd expect her to be more reactive to the mention of a "falcon". After all, the Falcon is responsible for her current journey in more ways than one... I mean, sure, she's not Guts, and she never said anything about "revenge" or anything like that, but she gets upset about her hat... and that Falcon guy ordered Flora's death (he sent a dragon, as a matter of fact).

I guess Miura doesn't take Schierke too seriously, ;D perhaps her age has something to do with it. But yeah, you'd think she'd jump to that conclusion, anyway, just hearing the word Falcon should bring it to mind.

But while she does know enough to seemingly put it together, I still think her youth and lack of worldly experience puts her at a disadvantage to Guts. He's more enlightened to the situation overall, and he's been around the block a few times. It would be interesting if he was to confront them outside of town. Not anything like a fight, but more just asking Schierke what she's doing. He'll probably stick to the shadows though and leave Schierke to Kid-ro, I wonder if there's an APB out on the Black Swordsman after what happened at Flora's and if Mule and Sonja would recognize him by reputation and description? Or if Sonja read his mind.

All I know is that a smell a Miura-esque set-up in the town of Vritannis.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 13, 2004, 10:58:22 PM
Even the Skull Knight complimented her about that... Which is why I think it's a bit weird how she doesn't seem to be suspicious at all, so far...

Yeah, well maybe it all happened a bit quickly with her hat and the painful memories it brought on, the hanged Kushans and the pirates, and she didn't really deeply think about what Sonja said yet (not hard considering she's a bit of an eccentric)? Not to mention she's got herself some kind of friend, which is a new experience to her.

Yeah, I know... But then again, who can blame her for not noticing her back then? Even we, the readers, didn't really know that she would become a regular character. ^^

That's for sure, but still, she could have at least looked familiar to her or something (there's a panel in volume 22 where you apparently see through the birds' eyes, with Schierke commenting, and there's just Griffith and Sonja). Reminds me that it didn't look like she recognized Grunberd or Zodd either when they attacked Flora's mansion.

But while she does know enough to seemingly put it together, I still think her youth and lack of worldly experience puts her at a disadvantage to Guts. He's more enlightened to the situation overall, and he's been around the block a few times. It would be interesting if he was to confront them outside of town.

I think it's quite possible that they will have a talk about that encounter, during which one of them might bring that topic on, ending with one if not both getting to the right conclusions (revealing their knowledge of the situation to the other or not).
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: DemonX on November 13, 2004, 11:24:08 PM
Well even though Schierke is very intelligent, she cant seem to know everything, can she? She was very confused when guts refused the earth axe back when she was handing out weapons...


Also, another question that comes up, does Azan still serve the Holy See? I would probably guess not... he is alone, with no holy see soldiers following him, and the fact that hes just sleeping on a tiny boat like that could mean that hes just wandering around. Maybe watching the events at the tower of conviction maybe changed his mind about the holy see?


And one other question... what the hell happened to the spikes at the end of his staff?

P.S.: I dont think the Pirate captain is dead
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: xechnao on November 13, 2004, 11:52:43 PM
First of all thanks for the chapter.
A very nice Isidro chapter -at least for me- and Guts' also with that super cool image

But, what I admitedlly didn't like was Azan's entrance...didn't like as much as I don't like BASTARD, to which hopefully Bereserk is a different thing
And that scene reminds me BASTARD unfortunatelly
The comic relief concept fits Azan ok, but sleeping over there in full armour just doesn't make sense...
That said:
Am I the only one who's a bit surprised that Schierke doesn't seem to be realizing that Sonja's "falcon" is the Falcon?
After all, she saw the guy back in volume 22, and he was freeing a city from the Kushan with the help of Apostles...
And I'd expect her to be more reactive to the mention of a "falcon". After all, the Falcon is responsible for her current journey in more ways than one... I mean, sure, she's not Guts, and she never said anything about "revenge" or anything like that, but she gets upset about her hat... and that Falcon guy ordered Flora's death (he sent a dragon, as a matter of fact).
Could it be that Sonja can impose or see and use "moods" in a conversation/comunication the same way she can see "the flow of battle"?
She is a witch kinda and seems to "get" causality pretty well...
Schierke is also immature (perhaps due to lack of experience) in means of not seeing what it might be ahead or behind of some situations and we have seen this allready
Perhaps Miura with this event wants to emphasize on these too: Sonja's ability and Schierke's inexperience yet
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: tokken_brz on November 14, 2004, 12:34:02 AM
Oh my.. session expired !


Azan reminds me about someone else


(http://www.skullknight.net/faq/characters/azan.gif)

=


(http://pagesperso.aol.fr/friezito/images/mr%20satan.jpg)

We  missed you, Azan!
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Smith on November 14, 2004, 01:06:33 AM

Even the Skull Knight complimented her about that... Which is why I think it's a bit weird how she doesn't seem to be suspicious at all, so far...



Its kinda confusing i did notice too except i was flamed rather seriously the last time i mentioned it  :-[

Nevertheless, Schierke should know Griffith wasnt a saviour like the fairy tales (She should have also suspect that it was him that sent the demonic armies to hunt for Flora), and that Guts hate him to the core, so IMHO i seriously doubt she will go with Mule/Sonja to meet Griffith if she know who he is...


In other word she didnt suspect at all... It can be 2 possibilities, either she just forget or couldnt really expect Sonja, such a nice pretty girl would be a follow of the demonic villian, OR Miura forget how Scherke was introduced  8)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: roberto999 on November 14, 2004, 09:02:20 AM
Or maybe Schierke knows who Mule and Sonja are and she doesn't care? They have never done anything wrong to her and even if you do hate someguy(Griffith in this instance) you don't automatically hate everyone that is his friend or it is somehow related to him.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 14, 2004, 10:27:46 AM
And one other question... what the hell happened to the spikes at the end of his staff?

It's not the same staff actually, and his armor is also different from the one he previously wore.

Could it be that Sonja can impose or see and use "moods" in a conversation/comunication the same way she can see "the flow of battle"?

I don't think so, but it reminded me of something: if Schierke had made the relation between Sonja's falcon (Griffith) and the Falcon of Darkness, Sonja would have probably been able to catch her thought...

Or maybe Schierke knows who Mule and Sonja are and she doesn't care? They have never done anything wrong to her and even if you do hate someguy(Griffith in this instance) you don't automatically hate everyone that is his friend or it is somehow related to him.

Well, Sonja apparently idolizes Griffith and sees him as the perfect "good-and-kind-and-beautiful" guy. Considering the situation and Schierke's emotional state, I don't think she'd just leave it at that.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: xechnao on November 14, 2004, 11:14:32 AM
I don't think so...
Yeah, but remember Sonja how kinda misterious is...
I mean, remember the apostle that was about to eat her and immediatelly after Irvine's interference she was trying to win him over promissing him a dead corpse or so if I remember...
I think the word "witch" fits her well, for her manners and way...more than Schierke I would say which her character is more of the druidical type I guess
I believe Sonja is more cunning than her face makes her seem
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Freddy C on November 14, 2004, 11:47:08 AM


In his current condition, I'd bet that he's very thankful for every opportunity to NOT fight and just get to the Elfhelm without too much attention. Which does not mean he'd hesitate to swing DS around a bit when situation necessitates.

yea that's what i thought as well, but Guts has always joined in a fight regardless of his condition, maybe he's learning or something else...there's something sinister or serious going on i think
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 14, 2004, 03:52:32 PM
Yeah, but remember Sonja how kinda misterious is...
I mean, remember the apostle that was about to eat her and immediatelly after Irvine's interference she was trying to win him over promissing him a dead corpse or so if I remember...

She did so because she considers them as her comrades, the bad guys of the band, but still part of it, all serving Griffith. As for being "mysterious", I think she's just eccentric really, as I said earlier. It probably came along with her powers.

I think the word "witch" fits her well, for her manners and way...more than Schierke I would say which her character is more of the druidical type I guess

Yeah well it's great, but Miura calls Schierke a witch, and Sonja a shaman (I think that's what Grunberd calls her), so let's stick with it.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: xechnao on November 14, 2004, 04:08:25 PM
She did so because she considers them as her comrades, the bad guys of the band, but still part of it, all serving Griffith. As for being "mysterious", I think she's just eccentric really, as I said earlier. It probably came along with her powers.
Really? So why did she went away the camp in distress if she is such a loyal comrade or even told such a tale to Schierke?..she does not consider herself a duck follower, she has her personality and she ain't so dumb

Yeah well it's great, but Miura calls Schierke a witch, and Sonja a shaman (I think that's what Grunberd calls her), so let's stick with it.
Stick with what? Nomination and titles don't have the official meaning you address here...
Schierke manipulates the forces of nature, which comes more near to the druid model, this is just what I wanted to say...in comparison to Sonja on the other hand who seems to get to see the flow of fate, coming more near to something like a fortune teller or a witch
Plain as that...let Grunberd out of this  ;)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 14, 2004, 04:34:06 PM
Really? So why did she went away the camp in distress if she is such a loyal comrade or even told such a tale to Schierke?..she does not consider herself a duck follower, she has her personality and she ain't so dumb

You miss the point, and she doesn't consider herself a duck indeed, but a kite, closer to the Falcon than any other thing... As for why she left the camp, she herself says it's because she was jealous of Charlotte, as any young girl having a crush on someone that gets married to another girl would. I don't see how it relates to her loyalty, now what did you want to say, that she's a traitor to the Hawks? ::)

Stick with what? Nomination and titles don't have the official meaning you address here...

Stick with the names and designations the mangaka uses to refer to his characters. You're not in a position of authority here, sorry.

Schierke manipulates the forces of nature, which comes more near to the druid model, this is just what I wanted to say...

She doesn't really manipulate the forces of nature, rather she calls to some specific spirits and to the elemental kings when she needs help, and her overall character doesn't fit the druid archetype at all (she doesn't transform into various animals, prophesy, control the weather, levitate, or is even able to magically heal wounds for example, and we've yet to see her cutting mistletoe with a golden sickle ::)).

in comparison to Sonja on the other hand who seems to get to see the flow of fate, coming more near to something like a fortune teller or a witch

For all we know, she can just read people's minds (though her power grows when near to Griffith)... And I'd like to know what you precisely define as a witch, seeing how many different definitions of the word there is, all over the world.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: xechnao on November 14, 2004, 05:48:03 PM
Do you want to discuss or just disagree?

You miss the point, blah blah...
:

You're not in a position of authority here, sorry.

I mean... ::)


"Stick with the names and designations the mangaka uses to refer to his characters."

This is irrelevant to the topic but if you want to still focus on this here is my take...
Griffith's issued his orders as that witches belong to axis of evil and attacked Flora...
But truth is not that his enemy is wizardry itself as magic gets used in all ways around
Only magic users that could oppose him and fight him and Sonja obviously isn't one of them...
But since his orders to his army were to strike against witches it's clear that Sonja couldn't be named a witch inside Hawk Team's ranks*


She doesn't really manipulate the forces of nature, rather she calls to some specific spirits and to the elemental kings when she needs help, and her overall character doesn't fit the druid archetype at all (she doesn't transform into various animals, prophesy, control the weather, levitate, or is even able to magically heal wounds, etc).

Elemental kings, that thing at Qlipoth she summoned are things of nature...Remember she also put her spirit inside a bird once
Even the tools she has been using in her magic are natural ones :the things to throw against trolls, the hair, the flame arrows...
Even the way she uses magic on people is natural: block their natural ability of motion or make them move like chimps, hehe
Remember also how she expresses herself about the city, about the urban environment two episodes back
Schierke is the shaman, druid kind of magic user
On the other hand Godhand for example is akin to a different approach on the use of magic who has more to do with desire, desperation and strong emotions like that
Two different approaches, two different uses...
Schierke has described how HER type of use of magic used to help people in their rural lifestyle in the past: healing illnesses and various village issues to name
 
For all we know, she can just read people's minds (though her power grows when near to Griffith)...
She sees fate...she knew about Griffith coming, she sees the flow of battle and stuff like that...
as far as her powers growing when near to Griffith I don't remember anything in the manga showing that, perhaps you are right I don't remember this
Sonja is a fortune teller or "medium" kinda, a diviner who can see into persons and situations...When I said that she is misterious I intented something that agrees with your phrase "It probably came along with her powers.":
Her point of focus is that she is still a person but more gifted than others...
For her, I give a "witch" characterization with a negative sense

And I'd like to know what you precisely define as a witch, seeing how many different definitions of the word there is, all over the world.

This is what you should have said first point instead of telling me that I don't get the point and that I ain't authorized to say what I was trying to say...go figure  ::)
Well, I hope I have exhausted it now
In short, I want to give to "witch" a negative (twisted?) meaning while to druid a more positive one regarding people
*Remember that Griffith's named enemies are the "witches", the even possibly good willed magic users that the Holy Order is also after
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 14, 2004, 06:52:15 PM
Do you want to discuss or just disagree?

I disagree with you because you talk out of your ass, now what's your point, besides quoting 1/5th of what I say and ignoring the things you can't reply to?

This is irrelevant to the topic but if you want to still focus on this here is my take...

Everything you say is usually irrelevant to the topic so it's no big deal, really...

But since his orders to his army were to strike against witches it's clear that Sonja couldn't be named a witch inside Hawk Team's ranks

Sonja just can read minds anyway, she's not a "witch" like Schierke is. Being a witch isn't a natural ability but about knowledge from what we've seen so far (even Farnese is becoming one).

Elemental kings, that thing at Qlipoth she summoned are things of nature...Remember she also put her spirit inside a bird once

It depends on what you call "things of nature", otherwise, how does that mean anything in particular?
 
Even the tools she has been using in her magic are natural ones :the things to throw against trolls, the hair, the flame arrows...

It still doesn't fit the definition of druids at all. We're not on a RPG board...

Schierke is the shaman, druid kind of magic user [...]

You don't know what you are talking about... But you actually have a point that you didn't intend to make here.

The episode 214 is titled "Shaman", and it refers to Schierke. I think it more precisely refers to her ability to communicate with "spirits", leaving her body through a trance and ascending to another plane of existence.

Now, we have to consider the fact that this episode title is written in Katakana, associating to it the occidental meaning of a "shaman" (this word has different meanings and variations depending on different cultures anyway), while the word used by Grunberd is a Japanese one ("miko").

Actually, after some search, I think that "medium" (a "shrine maiden", a "virgin consecrated to a deity") would be more appropriate (where are all the translators when you need them?! ;D), so my bad (Sonja calls herself like that in this episode actually, Saiki just translated it "maiden"). This is one of the reasons I'd rather stick to what Miura calls them, rather than trying to be a smartass and thinking I know better ;) (get the hint?).

She sees fate...she knew about Griffith coming, she sees the flow of battle and stuff like that...

No, she's not seeing "fate", she knew about Griffith coming because of the collective dream (and she wasn't the only one), and seeing the "flow of battle" relates to her mind reading ability, and is seemingly a result of her being close to Griffith (from what she tells him).

as far as her powers growing when near to Griffith I don't remember anything in the manga showing that, perhaps you are right I don't remember this

How about reading volume 23 again then before replying? She tells Griffith so when she introduces Mule to him, after he congratulates her.

For her, I give a "witch" characterization with a negative sense

Thinking you're in a better place than Miura to qualify his characters in his story just shows your arrogance as well as your flawed vision of Berserk and the world in general.

This is what you should have said first point instead of telling me that I don't get the point and that I ain't authorized to say what I was trying to say...go figure

But you really didn't get the point anyway, as always, and you apparently didn't even get my line about the characters designations either... It's actually quite sad.

In short, I want to give to "witch" a negative (twisted?) meaning while to druid a more positive one regarding people

Ok, so basically, you invent meanings to words you don't know anything about, and use them to refer to fictional characters while nullifying those the story's creator himself uses, right? Ridiculous...

I'm not letting an argument like that spoiling this thread any further (I skipped the gibberish and the parts were you agreed with me, hope you don't mind), so you'd better make your reply brief and non-provocative, since everybody knows already that you will reply for sure (how predictable...).

I think (and hope) you can agree with the fact that Sonja's a "medium", and that Schierke's a witch (generally speaking, and she even has the famous outfit ;)), manipulating magic, using the help of spirits, etc. It would be good to just leave it at that.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Griffith on November 14, 2004, 09:02:46 PM
Haha! I just saw this, and I haven't read what either of you have said, I have no idea what the argument's about, but I already think I know the gist of what's been said. Sorry Aaz, I sympathize. ;D

Xech, you're back, I thought maybe an American dusted you in Iraq, not yet, huh?


Ugh, I read the beginnings of the argument, jesus how stupid. Xech, when you're bored would you please just go jerkoff and stop coming on our board. Haha, pun city. ;D
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: xechnao on November 14, 2004, 09:23:50 PM
Xech, you're back, I thought maybe an American dusted you in Iraq, not yet, huh?

Haha, no but I saw some dusted Americans all right
 
Ugh, I read the beginnings of the argument, jesus how stupid. Xech, when you're bored would you please just go jerkoff and stop coming on our board. Haha, pun city. ;D

Provocation? Ugh, no thank you...not here.Take it on shooting the breeze...won't replying this shit here any more
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Griffith on November 14, 2004, 09:34:09 PM
Provocation? Ugh, no thank you...not here.Take it on shooting the breeze...won't replying this shit here any more

I hope by "shit" you mean everything said here. =) So wait, I could call you a lying, self-righteous, delusuional sonufabitch who thinks he knows what's best for the world but is really a 20-something loser kareening towrds thirty with no prospects in front of a computer screen on the Net trying to make a life of it and failing miserably and you wouldn't have a retort?

That's great, way to grow, man.

BTW, how was Iraq this week? Did I ever tell you about how I was in the Dessert Strom? ;D

P.S. Next chapter, who thinks Guts puts it together that the Hawks are in town? =)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Rhombaad on November 14, 2004, 11:37:58 PM
Anyway, I don't remember too clearly if they explained the origin of Sonja's power(s), but could it(they) be gifts from Griffith?  Just a thought.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Smith on November 15, 2004, 04:37:28 AM
but could it(they) be gifts from Griffith?  Just a thought.



They? Huh?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 15, 2004, 07:22:38 AM
Sorry Aaz, I sympathize. ;D

Can you feel my pain?

Now back to topic

You see, I intended to let you have the last word, but you disappointed me, I'm used to it now I guess. So yes, let's get back on topic: I deleted your posts since you were merely repeating yourself in the same petty and condescending way, and removed my replies as well.

You tried, it was worthless, you lose.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Walter on November 15, 2004, 07:27:01 PM

P.S. Next chapter, who thinks Guts puts it together that the Hawks are in town? =)
I was pretty suprised Guts was so subdued in the shadows as Mule passed him, his armor all emblazoned with Hawk insignia etc.  I guess we'll see his reaction next chapter indeed.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: puella on November 15, 2004, 08:07:58 PM
It was quite interesting to see such a childlike personality of the kids, Schierke, Sonja and Mule. I think they look too serious for their age but they look like real and common kids in this episode.

And it was also interesting to find Miura's another homage to the classic manga/anime via Puck, of course. ;) Ashita no Joe! Puck played the coach, Tange Danpei, then Isidro is Joe? ;D

(http://skullknight.net/puella/puck/puckjoe.jpg)

(http://skullknight.net/puella/post/tange.jpg)(http://skullknight.net/puella/post/joe.jpg)

So far, Miura showed us his homage to the classic manga, "Mazinga", "Saint Seiya", "Sally, the witch(Mahotsukai Sari)", "Doraemon", "Getta robot" via Puck. What would be the next? Expecting.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: roberto999 on November 15, 2004, 09:42:30 PM

And it was also interesting to find Miura's another homage to the classic manga/anime via Puck, of course. ;) Ashita no Joe! Puck played the coach, Tange Danpei, then Isidro is Joe? ;D


If you think how ended that Manga I am sure that Isi is touching something  wooden just now :P ;D. A great touching ending however -a great battle and at very the end it seemed that Joe was just resting....
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Rhombaad on November 16, 2004, 12:49:12 AM
They? Huh?

Sorry, my post was a little confusing.  I meant to ask if anyone thinks that Griffith gave Sonja her powers or if she already had them before Griffith rescued her.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Sparnage on November 16, 2004, 10:04:46 AM
Looks like a bit of a climax isn't too far away.

At first I thought Sonja was a decent kid who has just had her destiny tied down with Griffiths, yet still be totally innocent at the same time but now I wonder if she is going to betray Schierke.

Sonja has a deep connection to Griffith, that is certainly true so prehaps her motives could very well reflect of Griffiths. It has already been proven that Griffith does not like Magic users and considers them a threat, yet she still invites Schierke back to the Hawks.
I suppose Sonja could just be somewhat naive despite being Griffiths medium, though having Schierke come back with them. I wonder if this is her Idea to get in the good books with Griffith again since Charlotte has been put as the main priority. Prehaps not likely, but possible.

Guts simply watches the Hawks take his group members. Not seeing his facial expression as they leave would have to be intentional to make the reader have a more difficult time to guess what he has planned. Question is How many other dangerious Hawk members are in Vritanis?

ANYWAY.
Am I the only one who's a bit surprised that Schierke doesn't seem to be realizing that Sonja's "falcon" is the Falcon?
After all, she saw the guy back in volume 22, and he was freeing a city from the Kushan with the help of Apostles...
And I'd expect her to be more reactive to the mention of a "falcon". After all, the Falcon is responsible for her current journey in more ways than one... I mean, sure, she's not Guts, and she never said anything about "revenge" or anything like that, but she gets upset about her hat... and that Falcon guy ordered Flora's death (he sent a dragon, as a matter of fact).

It also seemed like Farnese had put things together for a bit as well, but it must be alot for them to grasp.


Guts crew can't be too far away from knowing now, questions have arised recently anyway like Isidro asking Guts what mercenary group he used to be apart of for a start. In reality someone would have surely asked Guts what his plans are aside killing monsters and going to Elfhelm and why (I can't remember if anyone aside Schierke and Puck even knows about that). I can only guess that they will know the truth about Guts's past within a few more volumes.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Headless Death on November 16, 2004, 12:54:35 PM
I agree, I would say it would be likely that the others will begin to learn of Guts' past sometime in the next few volumes.  Especially since they seem to be getting closer to it.  To both tales and rumors of the golden age, and to the new B.O.T.H.

I believe that Schierke is not being tricked by Sonja, but I suppose it is because I still trust her and Mule.  Of course I thought Griffth was trustworthy when I began the story and we know how that turned out.

My big question is how many more volumes until they reach Elfhelm?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: asmer on November 16, 2004, 01:21:25 PM
I am personaly beginning to have some slight doubts about Sonja.

In the Page 17's translation, Mule says:

Quote
Mule - But that witch she was looking for

Mule - Is she a real....?

Mule - something is on her hat too

I'm wondering what it exactly means!? Does that mean that Sonja was looking for a witch by coming to Vritannis. And that the witch Mule was looking for when he asked Isidro the first time wasn't Sonja, but Schierke? If so, maybe it's not a coincidence that Sonja met Schierke, and she may purposedly try to have her come to Griffith's camp. It doesn't seem to fit Sonja's personnality, but who knows... :-\

And more than that, Sonja seems to be aware of the upcoming attack on Vritannis, while Mule is wondering about what is gonna happen there:

Quote
Mule - Even though theyre kids, to be able to get out of the city with this many Kushans without question...

Mule - What is going on?

Sonja - That's a

Sonja - secret

Schierke - right

Ivarella - It's a piece of cake

And on Page 03 of Episode 247's translation:

Quote
Sonja - I guess it can't be helped if this place burns down....

So, maybe Sonja isn't as cute and kind as she looks?!
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: xechnao on November 16, 2004, 02:08:28 PM
I am personaly beginning to have some slight doubts about Sonja.

In the Page 17's translation, Mule says:



I'm wondering what it exactly means!? Does that mean that Sonja was looking for a witch by coming to Vritannis. And that the witch Mule was looking for when he asked Isidro the first time wasn't Sonja, but Schierke? If so, maybe it's not a coincidence that Sonja met Schierke, and she may purposedly try to have her come to Griffith's camp. It doesn't seem to fit Sonja's personnality, but who knows... :-\

And more than that, Sonja seems to be aware of the upcoming attack on Vritannis, while Mule is wondering about what is gonna happen there:



And on Page 03 of Episode 247's translation:



So, maybe Sonja isn't as cute and kind as she looks?!

Don't read Aaz on this...I am the one right (even if he will become a madman when I tell him so)
WHAT?!?!?!  :-X ;D ;D  :-X ;D ;D :o :o ;D  :P ;D
[well, truth be told on this it's because I am an ass myself and can't help sometimes but piss people off, whatever that is: note my first phrase on this post to get what I am talking about]

Anyway, seriously, yes, I at least, agree with this - I mean Sonja, yes "isn't as cute and kind as she looks"
Anyway, on that first Mule dialogue you posted I believe he was talking about Sonja, not Schierke if I remember correctly
Nevertheless, I tried to describe my take on Sonja: a "witch" as what it means when used negativelly, describing one's personallity I think fits her well
 Besides, as I tried to say before, Sonja herself-in her story made clear that her vital mentallity is, that she is a person yet, but then more gifted than the others...
 I believe that it is possible that she visited Vritannis first place because of Schierke...in my opinion there is something solid of a "medium" on her...She could see Griffith was coming when they were taken hostages, she was confident enough to pass through the dark forest with Mule, filled with Apostles that were willing to eat them...IMO it could propablly be because she can see and predict somehow fate, she has a vision on things, she can get causality from a distance...after all she is telepathetic for sure on minds and linking this till the extremity of the world-matter chain could reach to causality itself...And IMHO she has a dose of this "extremity" potential since we have seen her to telepathically experience an event complicated and big enough as a big battle, a big conflict on a battlefield -not to speak about that she is also able of telepathetically actively interacting with what she sees.
 Yes, I believe she can have something more sinister and twisted in her personality than her innocent face...and this means in her makings and machinations too since she has the ability-and most propablly the intention :she is more than a duck: she is a kite, remember?-And after all kites are still predators  ;)
 

EDIT: Jesus, I make so many mistakes when I first type and post I impress even myself...Hope this one is the last edit here
EDIT2:No! No! No! (had to EDIT again) ;D :-[
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Rhombaad on November 16, 2004, 03:51:12 PM
The more I think about it (which is either a good thing or a bad thing), the more it seems like Sonja is being a little "too" innocent and nice.  Either she's genuinely being kind to Schierke because she wants to bring a witch to join up with the BotH, or she's tricking her into going to Griffith and getting killed (or tortured, who knows).  Her expression creeps me out anyway, but I'm not going to call this one until we see more of the story....sniff...two more weeks  :'(
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Smith on November 16, 2004, 03:53:35 PM
At first I thought Sonja was a decent kid who has just had her destiny tied down with Griffiths, yet still be totally innocent at the same time but now I wonder if she is going to betray Schierke.

Guts simply watches the Hawks take his group members. Not seeing his facial expression as they leave would have to be intentional to make the reader have a more difficult time to guess what he has planned.


Indeed Sonja might be more cunning than we can possibly imagine, it might a sinister plot to get rid of all Griffith possible threat...



but whatever it is Sparnage u did make me realised something... Guts might be planning something... He could overheard the whole conversation... knowing what and who are Mule and Sonja working with...



Guts "......" expression really make me wonder a lot
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: kimchan on November 16, 2004, 04:37:24 PM
Quote
Mule - But that witch she was looking for

Mule - Is she a real....?

Mule - something is on her hat too

Looked more like a typo to me.  Mule knew Isidro was looking for a witch and was probably talking about Schierke.  She's dressed like a witch, so he's wondering if she really is one or not.  And he's definitely talking about Schierke in regards to the "thing" (you know, that elf thing...) on her hat, considering Sonja had no hat and Mule had indicated before that on some level he knew Evarella was there.

Quote
Mule - Even though theyre kids, to be able to get out of the city with this many Kushans without question...

Mule - What is going on?

Sonja - That's a

Sonja - secret

Schierke - right

Ivarella - It's a piece of cake

I think this refers to how this particular city is not a good place for witches to be.  They might not have been noticed because of something Schierke did.  But since it's not a good idea to parade around proclaiming you're a witch in a city like Viritannis, Sonja just says that whatever helped them get out of the city unnoticed was a "secret."  Not to say Sonja isn't hiding anything else.  But you're making it sound like  she's some kind of mastermind behind something, asmer.  Seeing as she's not in a position to do that, she probably just knows something about the Hawks' plans for Viritannis, stuff that nobody else is privy to at this point.

And for the little ongoing argument...  Sonja has never shown any signs of being a witch.  She doesn't cast spells, she doesn't call on spirits, she doesn't seem to do healing either, etc.  All things a witch does in this place.  She even seems to be fascinated with the hypnosis thing Schierke did, even though to Schierke, it was just a simple spell.  Someone who was experienced as a witch would likely think the same, not make  big deal about it like Sonja did.  All Sonja seems to be able to do is some sort of "sensing," both of thoughts and feelings and more remote sensing, like her warnings on the battlefield.  This doesn't qualify her as a witch.  Schierke for that matter is not a druid or "druidical," she is trained as witch, by a witch, and calls herself a witch (by extension the author of the story does too.)  Working with nature and spirits of nature is extremely common for witchcraft and does not make her something else.  In fact, that's the very thing that defines her as a witch.  But arguing about whether Sonja is a witch or is Schierke a witch, these things really don't matter that much at this point (especially since they were pretty much settled a long time ago...)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Olivier Hague on November 16, 2004, 04:58:14 PM
In the Page 17's translation, Mule says:
Mule - But that witch she was looking for
I think it should be "he was looking for". Isidro, not Sonja.
Quote
Sonja - I guess it can't be helped if this place burns down....
Well, she appears to be able to see future events...
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Walter on November 16, 2004, 05:06:10 PM
I think all three of you (Smith, Xech, Rhombaad) are missing the obvious and likely truth: The one Miura presents to us in ep 247. Sonia professed, quite genuinely to me, she's in Vritannis because she's upset at Griffith's pairing with Charlotte.  And what's wrong with this story? Nothing. Oh, but Walter look! She's smiling all the time! She must be planning something sinister!

Whether or not she has devious intentions CAN'T BE KNOWN TO US YET.  In fact, you could say we know less about her intentions than *GASP* ... Skull Knight's true identity! OMG!

However, if you still want to go with the SONIA MUST BE EVIL BECAUSE SHE'S SMILING road... She may be planning to bring Schierke to Griff to gain his favor, then he'd pay attention to HER instead of Charlotte  ::)  ( I feel dirty just considering it...)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 16, 2004, 05:25:14 PM
Does that mean that Sonja was looking for a witch by coming to Vritannis.

Kimchan and Olivier beat me to it.

So, maybe Sonja isn't as cute and kind as she looks?!

Well, she can be cute and kind, and still serve someone that isn't a good guy (like Griffith).

Don't read Aaz on this...I am the one right

Or so you think 8).

she was confident enough to pass through the dark forest with Mule, filled with Apostles that were willing to eat them...

Notice the apostle reaction when she mentioned Griffith though, right before Grunberd interfered.

Indeed Sonja might be more cunning than we can possibly imagine, it might a sinister plot to get rid of all Griffith possible threat...

We can't know before it happens, but it doesn't look so to me. I think she's just naive and eccentric, a gifted and good hearted girl, even though she serves a very mischievous being (Griffith).

Schierke for that matter is not a druid or "druidical," she is trained as witch, by a witch, and calls herself a witch (by extension the author of the story does too.)

Don't want to start that discussion again (and I'm sure Xech agrees), but I'd like to point out for info that she was as excited to be in presence of a witch (Schierke), than of the pirates, like it was the first time she saw one (she actually used Schierke's typical witch outfit as a proof -__-;) and that she refers to herself as a "Maiden", a very different word.

I think all three of you (Smith, Xech, Rhombaad) are missing the obvious and likely truth: The one Miura presents to us in ep 247. Sonia professed, quite genuinely to me, she's in Vritannis because she's upset at Griffith's pairing with Charlotte.

Yes guys, listen to the wiseman here, since you wouldn't listen to me.

As for why she left the camp, she herself says it's because she was jealous of Charlotte, as any young girl having a crush on someone that gets married to another girl would.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: puella on November 16, 2004, 05:34:15 PM
Looked more like a typo to me.

I think it's because of the Japanese word "aitsu". I myself thought it meant Sonja at first but I found Isidro would be more proper in the context after I read it more carefully.

Quote
Mule - Even though theyre kids, to be able to get out of the city with this many Kushans without question...

Mule - What is going on?

Sonja - That's a

Sonja - secret

Schierke - right

Ivarella - It's a piece of cake

I just thought that Sonja meant that little story between Schierke and her was a secret when Mule asked her "what's going on". And I also think Ivarella said something like "It's no big deal or nothing important(or special)" to support what Sonja replied to Mule.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: xechnao on November 16, 2004, 05:56:50 PM
Kim, when I was referring to Schierke as a druid and Sonja as a witch my take was on the character of the words...
 I believe that was clear, I guess still perhaps it wasn't
 What I want to say has to do with sometimes calling a person a "witch", meaning something negative about her character and intentions
 To cantrast this negative approach I give on Sonja with Schierke's more positive and good-willing one I characterized the later as a druid or shaman which from legend I suppose is the person that uses nature's magical forces to help people
 It was only a characterization
 Now, I don't know if we can officially distinguish witches and druids or whatever in Berserk and what sense this would have.
 The way I see it, magic exists and can be used in various ways but they can't be distinguished officially as if they were something different...In the end, Flora, explains the whole world using one general explanation
 One thing important though is Holy Order's and Griffith's claims on "witches", which obviously is a political take on fighting what can threaten or menace them
 Remember that Schierke has made clear that religion and magic reffer to the same things
 With this I end hoping that to have convinced you if you didn't agree with me allready




Walter, I guess this Sonja bad girl stuff is first of all my take, at least I was the one that first posted this on the thread...and I did this cause Olivier's post made me think about it
Am I the only one who's a bit surprised that Schierke doesn't seem to be realizing that Sonja's "falcon" is the Falcon?
After all, she saw the guy back in volume 22, and he was freeing a city from the Kushan with the help of Apostles...
And I'd expect her to be more reactive to the mention of a "falcon". After all, the Falcon is responsible for her current journey in more ways than one... I mean, sure, she's not Guts, and she never said anything about "revenge" or anything like that, but she gets upset about her hat... and that Falcon guy ordered Flora's death (he sent a dragon, as a matter of fact).

 Then, Olivier posts to say how impressive this seems for Schierke's character in the story since Skullknight gives her kudos for her intelligence

So this made me think (or at least wanna think) that other than Schierke's fault Sonja could be responsible too

The story about Sonja feeling strange about Charlotte I don't get it so much seriously -not saying that ain't true, but saying that Sonja the "medium" who sees in the future wouldn't drive all her way to Vritannis just because of a distress this has caused her for a moment: it can't be the Las Vegas escape thing: Las Vegas is far and a more significant decision if you see what I mean
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 16, 2004, 06:46:37 PM
It was only a characterization

I think she had got what you meant with your previous post already Xech, let's not digress too much, you can have a talk by PM if needed.

The story about Sonja feeling strange about Charlotte I don't get it so much seriously -not saying that ain't true, but saying that Sonja the "medium" who sees in the future wouldn't drive all her way to Vritannis just because of a distress this has caused her for a moment

What about Sonja the naive 12-or-so years old girl that had a hard childhood?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: xechnao on November 16, 2004, 07:16:06 PM
What about Sonja the naive 12yo girl that had a hard childhood?

You' ve got a point but I still ain't convinced for two reasons
 Firstly, I ain't sure she can be characterized naive because she is 12 (actually do we know her age?)- in the same means as Schierke could be
Let me explain:
 The first time we see Sonja, we see a person with a different power or gift that has been living amongst other people first place...It's not like Schierke, that it seems she has always been with her protector, away from and not used with people - living in a sense in her one world - considering other people that is
So, I guess Sonja can have the potential to be more cunny (socially) that Schierke herself
 The second reason and most important is, as I tried to say above, that a trip to Vritannis doesn't seem to me the same as somebody going to his room to stay alone for a while - It sounds as something more big, more important - it's like going to Las Vegas I say again, if you get with this what I want to say...but this is my feeling of course
 
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Walter on November 16, 2004, 07:23:46 PM

So, I guess Sonja can have the potential to be more cunny (socially) that Schierke herself
Cunny, Noun. 1. The female genitals.

Quote
The second reason and most important is, as I tried to say above, that a trip to Vritannis doesn't seem to me the same as somebody going to his room to stay alone for a while - It sounds as something more big, more important - it's like going to Las Vegas I say again, if you get with this what I want to say...but this is my feeling of course
 
Its a big city indeed. But I never saw Vritannis as a real "vacation" (vatican puns, anyone?) rather, I saw it as her taking a job for the Hawks away from the heat of battle i.e. The Ganishka front. But that's just me reading into it.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: xechnao on November 16, 2004, 07:29:31 PM

Cunny, Noun. 1. The female genitals.

Jezus  :o
...I am sorry
Cunning
cunn-i-n-g   cunn-i-n-g cunn-i-n-g cunn-i-ng...
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Rhombaad on November 16, 2004, 07:49:49 PM
I think all three of you (Smith, Xech, Rhombaad) are missing the obvious and likely truth: The one Miura presents to us in ep 247. Sonia professed, quite genuinely to me, she's in Vritannis because she's upset at Griffith's pairing with Charlotte.  And what's wrong with this story? Nothing. Oh, but Walter look! She's smiling all the time! She must be planning something sinister!

Whether or not she has devious intentions CAN'T BE KNOWN TO US YET.  In fact, you could say we know less about her intentions than *GASP* ... Skull Knight's true identity! OMG!

However, if you still want to go with the SONIA MUST BE EVIL BECAUSE SHE'S SMILING road... She may be planning to bring Schierke to Griff to gain his favor, then he'd pay attention to HER instead of Charlotte  ::)  ( I feel dirty just considering it...)

lol, true, there's no way to know at this point, and you never know what Miura will throw at us.  There's definitely a good chance that Guts overheard/saw most, if not all, of the "pirate incident."  Can't wait to see how he handles things and if he can finally control The Beast this time (I doubt it, but that's speculation, nothing more).  Things are getting good.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: asmer on November 16, 2004, 09:49:43 PM
I think it should be "he was looking for". Isidro, not Sonja.
OK, thanks.

But since it's not a good idea to parade around proclaiming you're a witch in a city like Viritannis, Sonja just says that whatever helped them get out of the city unnoticed was a "secret."  Not to say Sonja isn't hiding anything else.  But you're making it sound like  she's some kind of mastermind behind something, asmer.
Well, that's not exactly what I meant, more that she knows something, not that she necessarily is behind it. And since she seems to be able to see future events, why would she go just where she knows the Kushans are gonna attack!? That's the thing I was wondering about. :-\
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Kirika-chan on November 16, 2004, 11:25:36 PM
Quote
I think it should be "he was looking for". Isidro, not Sonja
That's what I thought, at first, but it's not the absolute strongest of possibilities (as it first seemed) because there is a link between "Sonja" and "witch" even before she met Schierke... AND that link is precisely in Mule's mind! (that made it, for me, about a 50-50)

Let me expand. I think it's safe to assume that Mule was looking for Sonja when he first overheard Isidro and he was immediately interested at the very mention of the word witch.

His interest could be just because Griffith has every Hawk on the lookout for witches, but that's unlikely. In the attack on Flora's house, there didn't seem to be any human soldiers. That could imply that Griffith is keeping his ducks ignorant of his witch-hunt (although it's not absolutely certain).

If Mule is not aware of Griffith's interest in witches, then his interest in Isidro's witch-talk could only be motivated by three causes:
a) He is interested in witchcraft himself (yeah, right ::) )
b) He thinks that Sonja might have been confused with a witch because she's such a weirdo (not entirely unlikely but not too likely either... she doesn't really look like a witch, I mean, the girl doesn't even wear a hat!)
c) He knows that Sonja was looking for a witch and thinks that finding the witch will eventually lead to reuniting with Sonja.

Relevant Question:
Does Griffith consider Sonja a dragon, a duck or something in between (kite???).
If he considers her a duck, she's probably ignorant of his interest in witches. If he considers her a dragon or an almost-dragon, because of her supernatural powers, she probably knows (although Mule wouldn't; he'd only know of -her- interest). If she's something in between, she might or might not know.

She considers herself a kite (in-between [although she think's it's even higher than dragons, I doubt it]) so (-if- she's right) it's possible that she might know... but let's hold that thought for a second.

I want to consider the other question that was asked a few posts above. If she really escaped to Viritanis in a fit of jealousy against her falcon's matrimony to the duck queen Charlotte, why would she be telling the story so happily?
(Yes, it could be because she had a wicked plot, but she wouldn't flee to another city if that was the case... it's not the logical reaction)
It could be because she knows that she'll triumph in the end, knowing that a silly duck queen couldn't possibly compete with her.
It could be that she's "just like that" all the time.
It could be that she's so happy about finding a new friend and looking at the ocean, that all other troubles don't seem sad anymore.
...or.... (dum dum dum) it could be because she found a witch and that is the answer to her problem!

How can it be the answer?
Let's continue from where we left off. If she knows how important finding all witches is for Griffith, she might think that offering him Schierke will earn her enough bonus points to change his mind on his choice of spouse.
If she doesn't, it could still be because she think's that she can use the witch's powers to change either Charlotte, Griffith, herself or some other relevant factor so that she'll be the one he marries.

Whatever it is, after reading that "she was looking for" phrase, I haven't been able to look at these chapters (or at Sonja) with the same eyes again.


So what was it that really happened? Leaving the logical analysis behind and going for a straight plot event stitching (aka just plain guesswork, since other options could be just as valid :P), my guess on the previous events would be that Sonja arrived on Viritanis because she wanted to look at the sea and clear her thoughts. She really did it because she was jealous and "hurt" (in the way that she can feel hurt). Then she felt the power of the witch. Maybe right from when she controlled the first guards or maybe when she overlooked her work burning the corpses. Whenever it was, she told Mule some half-comprehensible "I found a witch, I'm going to it" and ran off. Mule was confused and tried to follow her but he lost her. He started to look all over the city and eventually came near Isidro....

What she really wanted with the witch would still be a mystery (a scary unnerving mystery, if you ask me :o ) but it would tie Mule's initial interest in finding the witch with the apparent femininity of his last phrase.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: xechnao on November 17, 2004, 12:10:01 AM
Don't know japaneese but Olivier said that it was a "he" and not a "she"...if this is clearly true (I mean, I don't know how clearly Japaneese state gender) I guess your whole premise is pointless...
 On the other hand if this could be a "she", in this case then I guess you have made your point
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: puella on November 17, 2004, 08:10:22 AM
Mule recognizes the elves. It just means he isn't blind- minded or something more?  ::)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 17, 2004, 08:23:10 AM
why would she go just where she knows the Kushans are gonna attack!? That's the thing I was wondering about. :-\

Maybe she knew there was still time, maybe she felt it only after getting there, maybe she wanted to see the battle, many possible reasons... Don't forget that "fear" doesn't seem to be in her dictionary (make her blind and we've almost got daredevil ::)).

b) He thinks that Sonja might have been confused with a witch because she's such a weirdo (not entirely unlikely but not too likely either... she doesn't really look like a witch, I mean, the girl doesn't even wear a hat!)

But she has a special power, and says "weird things" to quote Mule himself. Enough in a town like Vritannis to pass for a witch in the eyes of a kid for example, especially now.

I think you got your explanation here, no need to get into something too complex.

Does Griffith consider Sonja a dragon, a duck or something in between (kite???).

I don't think Griffith classifies things like Sonja does, and I don't think he considers her as an apostle (dragon) or a common soldier (duck). More likely, she's a useful tool for him, no more, no less.

She considers herself a kite (in-between [although she think's it's even higher than dragons, I doubt it])

I think it's more subtle than that... She didn't say that she was stronger than apostles, or such a thing, but that she could "fly" in the same skies as the Hawk. I find it very interesting, and I think it relates directly to her ability.

If she really escaped to Viritanis in a fit of jealousy against her falcon's matrimony to the duck queen Charlotte, why would she be telling the story so happily?

She didn't seem that happy to me, at that precise moment, and then again: 

It could be that she's "just like that" all the time.

It's the most logical answer in the context.

she might think that offering him Schierke will earn her enough bonus points to change his mind on his choice of spouse. If she doesn't, it could still be because she think's that she can use the witch's powers to change either Charlotte, Griffith, herself or some other relevant factor so that she'll be the one he marries.

Far fetched, imho. Doesn't really fit the character.

Then she felt the power of the witch.

Well, it looks more like she actually saw it.

Don't know japaneese but Olivier said that it was a "he" and not a "she"...

It's a matter of context actually, the word could mean either of them, but logically, it's supposed to refer to Isidro IMO.

Looks at the events in the past episodes, and even Sonja telling Mule "it's a secret" when he wonders about what happened, I don't think it would make sense for them to have plotted something.

Just the kids meeting each other, and working together, while they'll probably have to face each other later in the story. A good example of causality: looks unimportant right now, but you'll see, in 20 volumes!
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: asmer on November 17, 2004, 09:11:24 AM
Maybe she knew there was still time, maybe she felt it only after getting there, maybe she wanted to see the battle, many possible reasons... Don't forget that "fear" doesn't seem to be in her dictionary (make her blind and we've almost got daredevil ::)).

Yes you're right, I am probably trying too much to analyze Sonja as a normal person, even if it's true she has already shown before that her reactions, especially toward "fear", are not always those of a teenage girl! ::)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: QUeeN typhonblue on November 18, 2004, 05:31:11 AM
Casca almost got burned at the stake for being a witch, and she didn't even have a pointy hat!

BTW, Mule seemed somewhat distraught when he asked Isidro about the witch. Perhaps he was worried that Sonja (who hasn't shown any of the defensive ability of Schierke) was taken for a witch. Seems plausible -- his concern--seeing as two women in the story have already been condemned as witches just because they acted weird and said weird things.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: xechnao on November 18, 2004, 10:58:31 AM
Casca almost got burned at the stake for being a witch, and she didn't even have a pointy hat!

BTW, Mule seemed somewhat distraught when he asked Isidro about the witch. Perhaps he was worried that Sonja (who hasn't shown any of the defensive ability of Schierke) was taken for a witch. Seems plausible -- his concern--seeing as two women in the story have already been condemned as witches just because they acted weird and said weird things.

This is 245, and I believe this was clear allready  ;)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: paradise_lost on November 18, 2004, 03:31:33 PM
The more I think about it (which is either a good thing or a bad thing), the more it seems like Sonja is being a little "too" innocent and nice.  Either she's genuinely being kind to Schierke because she wants to bring a witch to join up with the BotH, or she's tricking her into going to Griffith and getting killed (or tortured, who knows).  Her expression creeps me out anyway, but I'm not going to call this one until we see more of the story....sniff...two more weeks  :'(

U have to be right. I mean ... obviously we don't know so much about Sonja ... and more ... we actullay know nothing about Sonja ... could she be only "a good actress"?

  ::)

Mule recognizes the elves. It just means he isn't blind- minded or something more?  ::)

The answer to your question is inside words of the past ... "the levels are beginning to have a mixture together". Actually the differences between the levels are becoming very small and untouchable, so ... Mule-Myur is now able to see fairies ...
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Swordsman in Sable on November 18, 2004, 06:02:31 PM
Casca almost got burned at the stake for being a witch, and she didn't even have a pointy hat!
...seeing as two women in the story have already been condemned as witches just because they acted weird and said weird things.

Um, well in Casca's case, she did kind of get worshiped as a witch at the heretic orgy. Her brand attracted spirits to possess all the guys into meat eating freaks, and the demon baby came to protect her by dispelling those spirits. Then Elene told Mozgus' goons that she was their leader when they were captured. So, I wouldn't say it's just for her acting strange.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: QUeeN typhonblue on November 18, 2004, 06:03:40 PM
And Serpico's mother?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Olivier Hague on November 18, 2004, 06:27:28 PM
The answer to your question is inside words of the past ... "the levels are beginning to have a mixture together". Actually the differences between the levels are becoming very small and untouchable, so ... Mule-Myur is now able to see fairies ...
Yeah, and that's why the townfolks couldn't see Puck, huh?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: puella on November 18, 2004, 06:48:20 PM
Then Elene told Mozgus' goons that she was their leader when they were captured.

Tiny error. It's Nina. And Elene was the name the prostitutes called Casca since they didn't know her real name.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Sparnage on November 18, 2004, 06:58:45 PM

Walter, I guess this Sonja bad girl stuff is first of all my take, at least I was the one that first posted this on the thread...and I did this cause Olivier's post made me think about it

So what, it was spoken of several times in the 246 thread.

It's not uncommon for characters that seem innocent and decent to have other motives, Griffith as a perfect example would seem like the protagonist in alot of other stories so with other motives mentioned, I can't help but be skeptical about Sonja.

I'm not saying it's likely personally, but plausable. Besides at this rate with Guts very well spying nearby could be a perfect excuse to save Schierke and cause some trouble in the castle should someone higher up in the Hawks team, regardless of Sonja's wishes try to eradicate her magic using threat.... then again Guts wouldn't need Schierke as an excuse to attack new Hawk members even if they don't bother her....

Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: paradise_lost on November 18, 2004, 07:55:50 PM

Yeah, and that's why the townfolks couldn't see Puck, huh?

Well, Olivier, maybe Mule-Myur is not that simple person that so many people is thinking he is. Maybe he is not a "townfolk" person, and of course, he isn't that kind of person. He is near Griffith, and near Sonja, and for sure, this stuff lets him able faster than other "townfolks" to see the different levels and the strong mixture the levels themselves are getting each one ...

  ;)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Olivier Hague on November 19, 2004, 01:01:37 AM
Well, Olivier, maybe Mule-Myur is not that simple person that so many people is thinking he is.
*sigh*
Quote
He is near Griffith, and near Sonja
Well, yeah, maybe _that_'s the reason, huh? Just maybe?
Quote
  ;)
Retard.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: paradise_lost on November 19, 2004, 09:05:27 AM

*sigh*

Well, yeah, maybe _that_'s the reason, huh? Just maybe?

Retard.

Well, comments are always good in my opinion. I know u are a good expert of Berserk, almost like I am. Than ... of course, maybe. I like to use the word maybe 'cause no one of us could be able to give a real answer to what Miura wants to let us understand. We can obviously speculate. And we do it. In our speculation, in my modest opinion we have to use the word maybe. I like to use it. I u don't, it's your stuff, it's not mine.

My answer is: maybe the reason why Mule-Myur is able to see Puck and Ivarella is that the levels are beginning to have a mixture, and he is one the people who for first is able to feel it.

And, of course, I'm not retarded, and I'm not I'm mental disorder. I'm only thinking.

Take care
   
    ;)
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Olivier Hague on November 19, 2004, 10:02:09 AM
I'm only thinking.
Not even that. You're just wasting oxygen.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: paradise_lost on November 19, 2004, 10:27:11 AM


Not even that. You're just wasting oxygen.

 ... it's strange, 'cause in that case u could be my "brother in arms" ... but I don't think so, no problem ...

  ;)

Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: *Gyom* on November 19, 2004, 10:29:41 AM

Not even that. You're just wasting oxygen.
You're way too overnice, Olivier. Be careful  ;D
Guil
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: kimchan on November 19, 2004, 04:54:48 PM
Uh oh, it begins again...
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Sparnage on November 20, 2004, 05:50:23 AM
Uh oh, it begins again...

What, did these two used to fight alot in the past?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: roberto999 on November 20, 2004, 11:17:50 AM
What, did these two used to fight alot in the past?
Yup. I am no longer the  "official italian" here  :'(

:P ;D
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: paradise_lost on November 20, 2004, 02:03:07 PM


What, did these two used to fight alot in the past?

Well, it was a little bit like that in the past. But actually I'm here not to fight against Olivier or others, I'm here to speculate and give my opinions ... nothing more. Obviously, if Olivier wanna fight with me, I'll answer no problem, but I'll never be the first one to begin ...

Take care

  ::)

 
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Jon Schaffer on November 20, 2004, 10:17:47 PM
Retard.
Funny.

Not even that. You're just wasting oxygen.
More funny.

But actually I'm here not to fight against Olivier or others, I'm here to speculate and give my opinions ...
Aren't they the same thing?  ;D
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 20, 2004, 11:06:52 PM
We're supposed to be talking about episode 248 here...
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: darkbane on November 20, 2004, 11:49:58 PM
Right, 248...

Am I the only one who thinks that Azan's reintroduction was a bit... pathetic? Ok so it was good for a cheap laugh but... really... Sleeping in full armor on a small boat like that... Actually I think someone already mentioned it, but there's so much trash in this thread that I can't find it right now.

Also, about a cigar sometimes being a cigar. People are reading too much into Sonia's behavior. She's most likely just inviting Schierke for friendship's sake, or to help her clear her mind in turn or something, that's all there is to it really. Anyone who thinks Sonia has sinister intentions here is probably reading too much Mi Ri Whang.  ;D

But this is one hell of an annoying cliffhanger here... you'd think the obvious continuation would be a polite refusal. But I'm not convinced that she has yet understood that their 'leader' is the Hawk, especially since Mule was interrupted by Isidro just as he was naming the Hawks. She might just go along for awhile (would be irresponsible, but she's in a confused state of mind it seems, and she never had a real friend before).

Also, in vol 22 Schierke says that getting close to a source of such power (referring to the hawk of light) in her body would be dangerous. Wouldn't it be a problem for her to approach Griffith? Or am i misinterpreting her statement there.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Griffith on November 21, 2004, 02:07:40 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Azan's reintroduction was a bit... pathetic? Ok so it was good for a cheap laugh but... really... Sleeping in full armor on a small boat like that... Actually I think someone already mentioned it, but there's so much trash in this thread that I can't find it right now.

Yes. I don't see why people (two now I guess) give such a shit either way. Obviously it wasn't supposed to be the most serious dramatic moment in the series. It was good for Azan (why does everyone want every character to be taken so grim and seriously in every chapter, even when they weren't to begin with?) and fine for what it was; I think people are hampering their own enjoyment of the series for whatever problem they've got. Also, I find these comments equally useless, it's not real analysis, it's just, "That sucked." Okay, where do you want to go with that anyway? Why post it all... unless you want your mind changed? =)

So, you fail, read it again starting with the introduction of Azan into the series and tell me his re-introduction in 248 wasn't perfectly fitting for him.

Also, about a cigar sometimes being a cigar. People are reading too much into Sonia's behavior.

I agree, Sonja has done nothing worth arguing about. It's all pretty cut and dry, she's interesting, yes, but so far not all that complicated.


But this is one hell of an annoying cliffhanger here... you'd think the obvious continuation would be a polite refusal. But I'm not convinced that she has yet understood that their 'leader' is the Hawk, especially since Mule was interrupted by Isidro just as he was naming the Hawks. She might just go along for awhile (would be irresponsible, but she's in a confused state of mind it seems, and she never had a real friend before).

Well then I guess it's quite a well-crafted cliffhanger for what it's worth. =)

Also, in vol 22 Schierke says that getting close to a source of such power (referring to the hawk of light) in her body would be dangerous. Wouldn't it be a problem for her to approach Griffith? Or am i misinterpreting her statement there.

I think that's if she gets too deep into the spiritual realm near him; since he reigns supreme there I guess he might absorb her some bullshit. ;D

Like what happened to her when she went inside Guts. Griff being a God and all probably has much more aura to worry about.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: darkbane on November 21, 2004, 02:59:42 AM
So, you fail, read it again starting with the introduction of Azan into the series and tell me his re-introduction in 248 wasn't perfectly fitting for him.

Ok, part of it was a 'that sucked' kind of statement. So, sorry. I'm new here, please be lenient ^_^. But there was more to it in my mind, let me put it down properly so that it won't become a worthless statement. As for getting my mind changed, well, I'll be happy to, if there's a good reason.  :)

As you say, starting with Azan's introduction. Azan appeared first I think when the HICK just chased down Guts. He was upholding his chivalry ideals back then, and he was serious about it. Kind of like Grunbeld commenting on how Zodd has a good opponent to fight, that tone. Then at the mock eclipse, we see Azan fighting again. Afterwards, as a sole survivor, full of shame for that fact, he choses to go back to the Holy See, because 'someone has to take responsibility'. Serious mood here too, even gloomy. And then the reintroduction. It's not that every character has to be serious, I'm quite happy with the puck/evarella/isidro slapstick and find it apropriate most of the time. Azan's reintroduction however, while working fine in the framework of that episode, didn't work for me in the context of the work as a whole, because a character who I perceived as serious before (maybe erroneously?) was brought back as a bag of cheap thrills. (Aside: the fact that he's sleeping on a boat out in the open though is by itself somewhat tragic; it shows that not all has been well for him, he must have been forced to resign from the HICK or some other such thing happened. Of course this impression is mitigated by his comedy sideshow act right afterwards.) Does that pass as analysis? Anyway, hopefully in the next episode Azan will be a bit more serious, and reveal to Guts' band what happened to him.

Also as a sidenote I'd like to say that Berserk is a great manga and small things like this couldn't possibly ruin my enjoyment of it - so even if I find this reentry pathetic that doesn't signify that it ruins my enjoyment or anything. ;D

I think that's if she gets too deep into the spiritual realm near him; since he reigns supreme there I guess he might absorb her some bullshit. ;D

Like what happened to her when she went inside Guts. Griff being a God and all probably has much more aura to worry about.

So then, it would be possible for her to go meet him. Schierke now has strong feelings against Griffith, but it would probably be unreasonable for her to go off on a private revenge trip. Damn Miura, this is one moment where I really don't know what to expect next, lol.

darkbane counts the hours untill the next weekend
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Griffith on November 21, 2004, 03:50:32 AM
As you say, starting with Azan's introduction. Azan appeared first I think when the HICK just chased down Guts. He was upholding his chivalry ideals back then, and he was serious about it. Kind of like Grunbeld commenting on how Zodd has a good opponent to fight, that tone. Then at the mock eclipse, we see Azan fighting again. Afterwards, as a sole survivor, full of shame for that fact, he choses to go back to the Vatican (or wherever their church is based), because 'someone has to take responsibility'. Serious mood here too, even gloomy. And then the reintroduction. It's not that every character has to be serious, I'm quite happy with the puck/evarella/isidro slapstick and find it apropriate most of the time. Azan's reintroduction however, while working fine in the framework of that episode, didn't work for me in the context of the work as a whole, because a character who I perceived as serious before (maybe erroneously?) was brought back as a bag of cheap thrills. (Aside: the fact that he's sleeping on a boat out in the open though is by itself somewhat tragic; it shows that not all has been well for him, he must have been forced to resign from the HICK or some other such thing happened. Of course this impression is mitigated by his comedy sideshow act right afterwards.) Does that pass as analysis? Anyway, hopefully in the next episode Azan will be a bit more serious, and reveal to Guts' band what happened to him.

Much better. :)

I disagree though, Azan is serious himself (and I think he still was in the last chapter), but his nature has been the butt of a few jokes before. Comic moments when he and Serpico didn't see eye to eye on honor and the meaning of being a Knight, and he looked quite silly when he first challenged Guts (Puck sure didn't think much of him). But, he proved to be a force to be reckoned with, and a man who believes in his convictions (which sometimes makes him seem stuffy in the eyes of others ). I don't think that was lost in his re-introduction. Azan wasn't anymore silly than before, the situation was silly. Silly because Azan wasn't fighting Guts or Monsters, he was fighting a bunch of filthy pirates, just taking out the trash; routine good deed for a Knight such as him. Look at how he's portrayed again, he looks like a demon. But he's a demon among vermin, that's why it's funny. This doesn't slight Azan, it shows just how formidable he is.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 21, 2004, 08:56:17 AM
Also, in vol 22 Schierke says that getting close to a source of such power (referring to the hawk of light) in her body would be dangerous. Wouldn't it be a problem for her to approach Griffith? Or am i misinterpreting her statement there.

It's not a good translation. It should be more (roughly) like: "It was dangerous to approach that field of power in the form of my astral body (body of light), I almost was killed."

Just being near Griffith (Hawk of Light), physically, shouldn't be a problem, but in the astral realm his power is overwhelming, especially for an apprentice witch. Note the "light" reference.

"Griffith no More!" understands what Azan and this episode are about.

Yes, you summed it up perfectly. I think I'll keep this post as a reference and quote it next time.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: xechnao on November 21, 2004, 12:08:25 PM
Also, about a cigar sometimes being a cigar. People are reading too much into Sonia's behavior. She's most likely just inviting Schierke for friendship's sake, or to help her clear her mind in turn or something, that's all there is to it really. Anyone who thinks Sonia has sinister intentions here is probably reading too much Mi Ri Whang.  ;D

She was promising an apostle a human corpse to feed, the one that was about to eat her, and through this still in that joyfull and innocence friendiship mood...I am not saying sinister necessarily but somehow twisted, she is to me
Only the fact that she follows Griffith and his demons all that happy and unwary while also being telepathetic puts her in my black list  ;D
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: darkbane on November 21, 2004, 12:28:00 PM
...I disagree though,...

Ok, I've changed my mind. Also I dug up the old volumes, and just now noticed that the very first thing he says, to Serpico, is pretty funny. Something like 'thanks for this piece of wisdom' with a smile and a popped vein, lol. And then they get into a catfight ^_^.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Khorne on November 21, 2004, 03:45:51 PM
The thing with Miura is that you can NEVER know beforehand what he is planning. For instance, I nearly got a heart attack when I first heard that Pippin had been killed in the eclipse.
 
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: QUeeN typhonblue on November 22, 2004, 12:25:45 AM
Here's my speculation.

Schierke will follow Sonya and Mule with Isidro because she has her suspicions... not of Sonya but of the falcon Sonya talks about. Guts will trail them, get to the New Hawks encampment, see Griffith. The Kushnans will attack. The town will be engulfed in flame and Guts will have to decide between fighting Griffith or fleeing during the ensuing battle on a ship with Casca to Puck's Homeland. He'll choose to flee. Casca will be cured. She'll decide not to seek vengence on Griffith and Guts will be torn between staying with her and continuing his quest. He'll decide to stay... until something happens to change his mind.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Griffith on November 22, 2004, 01:58:19 AM
Here's my speculation.

Schierke will follow Sonya and Mule with Isidro because she has her suspicions... not of Sonya but of the falcon Sonya talks about. Guts will trail them, get to the New Hawks encampment, see Griffith. The Kushnans will attack. The town will be engulfed in flame and Guts will have to decide between fighting Griffith or fleeing during the ensuing battle on a ship with Casca to Puck's Homeland. He'll choose to flee. Casca will be cured. She'll decide not to seek vengence on Griffith and Guts will be torn between staying with her and continuing his quest. He'll decide to stay... until something happens to change his mind.

249's going to be a BIG chapter.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: QUeeN typhonblue on November 22, 2004, 02:16:09 AM


249's going to be a BIG chapter.

Did I imply I was speculating about only *one* chapter?
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Bloody Needle on November 22, 2004, 05:09:56 AM
Azan is the single character who seems to take chivalric ideals (European or Asian, your choice) seriously as a model for living, in comparison to the sort of realpolitik we see in the other knights and nobles of Berserk. I'd say see we've seen him used in a parodic fashion, but there's a hint a tragedy inherent in the way his values come into conflict with the rest of the world...by the end of Rebirth, he seemed less shaken by the supernatural events than by the excessive demonstrations of human faults and wickedness. I'm glad to see him back, have no problem with his entrance [I can totally see him sneaking off to nap unobserved by his troops/colleagues], and hope he'll stay awhile. Furthermore, hopefully he'll crank out some exposition for what everyone is doing in Vritannis. Weirdly enough, I could see him getting along really well with Locus...they both have that over-courteous thing going.

As for Sonya--who knows? So far she's been consistently presented as a kind of preternatural naif, but that doesn't rule out her being manipulative if she had a sense that Schierke was a threat to Griffith.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: miurafan on November 23, 2004, 04:11:28 PM
Sorry. Never thought to look over there.
Title: Re: Episode 248
Post by: Aazealh on November 23, 2004, 04:17:16 PM
http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=3619.msg81454#msg81454