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Messages - Walter

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Character Cove / Re: The Beast & Dog/Wolf Themes in Berserk
« on: October 02, 2017, 05:11:26 PM »
This smartly condenses my point exactly.  Although you don't agree, I am very happy to see that you do completely understand the case I was making.

What's this? A happy ending in a heated thread like this? Inconceivable!  :ganishka:

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I created that image back in ~2010, so I don't have a PSD anymore. If you think you can use the existing image to pull off that effect, then please by all means go for it!

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Character Cove / Re: The Beast & Dog/Wolf Themes in Berserk
« on: October 01, 2017, 02:19:50 AM »
Just PLEASE consider this for a moment. - although you think the idea of Gambino's dog having anything to do with the beast is just completely hilarious, are there really no valid points being made in my entire argument?  If you think it's all 100% bullshit then that's fine, we disagree.  I'm not 100% right but I may not be 100% wrong.  The beast is a part of Guts and the way he looks should reflect that.

I think you're positing that throughout childhood, Guts subconsciously cultivated a self-image related to dogs that was then distorted after the Eclipse to become the Beast of Darkness.  I can see how that may sound convincing to some. But examine any scene where Guts and dogs are involved, and the connection loses grounding. You're searching for tangible traces of the Beast in Guts' past, which you believe influenced the form it ultimately takes. But I don't think such a thing exists, and it does not need to exist.

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Anyway, I would humbly ask you what, if anything, inspired the look of the beast.?

I think it's pretty simple. The Beast took that form with those specific features because of what that design evokes about that aspect of Guts. Miura probably chose an animal because it's supposed to represent Guts with his human bonds severed. And because Berserk is a story told in a visual medium, he can do cool shit like portray these violent aspects of Guts as a primal, salivating beast, single-minded in his ravenous thirst for revenge. What form would such a thing take? As it happens, it walks on all fours, has a low existence, drools, and has many sharp teeth -- features related with canines. That doesn't lend extra credence to any scene in Berserk with dogs. These features wordlessly convey what Miura is telling us about this dark side of Guts. It's a simple, effective and versatile design, and it doesn't require anyone to thumb through older volumes to understand the REAL meaning.

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Character Cove / Re: The Beast & Dog/Wolf Themes in Berserk
« on: September 30, 2017, 12:55:18 AM »
I am not just listing pages with dogs on them and saying, "Wow, there sure are a lot of dogs around here, must be important." 

I'm really not trying to be rude, but that is what it sounds like to me still.

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Gambino treats Guts like a dog, even going so far as to call him runt and pup.  I mention Gambino's dog because he has more regard for the dog than he does for Guts.

Well, until he hits it in the face  :void: That scene is far more revealing for Gambino than Guts, so I think it's being misconstrued as Dog Evidence #0001. It shows that Gambino lashes out at boys and dogs alike for acting in terms that he would understand as needy. And that causes him anguish, because both Guts and that random dog are pulling for a part of him that he can't give, because he's a broken man with nothing to give.

In any case, that dog does not seem to leave an impression on Guts in any way at all, and I really think you're reading way too much into it.

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The fight with the wolves happens immediately after Guts is cast out from Gambino's camp.  This fight with the wolves echoes the events from Gambino's camp and literally shows Guts as the "other" not belonging to the pack

That's a cool insight, but I don't see how it relates back to the Beast of Darkness at all. Trying to draw a pattern for the Beast prior to the Eclipse is a slippery slope into obscurity. You can craft such theories as a way to describe Guts' state of mind, but the Beast began after the Eclipse, specifically because it represents the Eclipse's trauma, and his appetite for revenge.

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It is not a 1:1 symmetry but look at it as an archetypal story and as Guts is slaying those wolves, he is slaying his entire life up until that point.

I think you're embellishing with your attempts at symbolism.  In that scene, Guts was fighting for survival, even though his will to live had nearly been broken.  That's a key part of his character, so it's not like the wolves are there for no reason at all other than to provide an animal memory that will later be tapped by his subconscious when it comes calling in Volume 16.

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When Casca calls Guts a dog, he got quite upset. Who do you think he was reminded of when Casca called him a dog? 

Yes, he was upset because she was questioning his bond with the group -- not because he's offended at trash talk. That's the entire point of the scene, and where the discussion goes with Griffith after Casca leaves. It's about Guts actually having changed within the group over the years, a notion which Casca rejects because of her complex over Guts' reckless role in the group. NONE of that has to do with actual animals!

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I understand its a common figure of speech BUT we have context

Context which you have manufactured in this thread, not substantive context as presented in the pages of the story.

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The emotional damage giving rise to the beast does not start with the eclipse

I fundamentally disagree. Guts was a tortured person before the Eclipse, but the Beast specifically represents Guts' trauma, and his appetite for revenge because of the Eclipse.

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Thematically, Guts can be represented by a dog just as easily as Griffith is by the falcon. 

Guts as a low, trudging figure and Griffith as a soaring falcon is a natural comparison, one made by Miura himself. No argument. That does not make the Beast of Darkness a dog.

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As far as the beast not looking like a dog...Come on!  Crop the head off of any picture and asked a friend what animal they are looking at and see what they say.  It's obviously not a literal dog because when has Miura ever not been creative in creature design?

I don't need to cut off parts of the beast's body to accurately call it what it is. It is a fictional being, it does not need to 100% align with real-world animals. It has canine parts, and it also has monstrous parts, thus it is not a dog OR a wolf. Relegating it to either is misconstruing what it truly represents.

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We agree on what the beast represents 100%.

It actually seems that we don't.

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Video Games / Re: What Are You Playing?
« on: September 30, 2017, 12:41:17 AM »
wait... what did you just said about Super Ghouls'n Ghosts ? Why is it "gross" ? It's the best one in the entire series.

I like the idea of Ghouls n Ghosts. But two decades removed from its inception, it's punishingly difficult and not very much fun. Similarly, Starfox is a real chore to play now, but I keenly remember how incredible it looked and felt back in the day.

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Video Games / Re: What Are You Playing?
« on: September 29, 2017, 06:13:57 PM »
Managed to get an SNES Classic this morning. It's uh, exactly what you'd expect!  But I couldn't resist — some of my favorite games of all time are on there: Super Metroid, Mario World, Zelda 3, Final Fantasy VI.

The nostalgia bit is somewhat lost on me, because I've played most of these games regularly since I was a kid. But I hope to be able to mod it (like I did with the NES Classic) to add more games, like Actraiser, Chrono Trigger, and ultimately, games that SHOULD have come over to the US but never did: Front Mission and Seiken Densetsu 3 (oh yeah, and to get rid of fucking Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts - gross).

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Video Games / Re: Dark Souls II
« on: September 29, 2017, 05:54:43 PM »
I didn't realize it at the time, but Dark Souls 2 sunk nearly all of my goodwill towards that series, and I absolutely loved DS1. It's just a vacuous, frustrating experience compared to what came before. The most fun I had in that game was rolling around with a group of 3-4 random people near when the game launched, just mowing through enemies (beating the Pursuer during his little cameo appearance, too).

I know that Dark Souls 3 put the series back on track (right in time for it to be over!), and I've put ~8h into it at this point, but it hasn't recaptured the same passion as the first game, which had me completely entranced.

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Character Cove / Re: The Beast & Dog/Wolf Themes in Berserk
« on: September 29, 2017, 04:07:10 PM »
There's a lot of subtext with Gambino's dog concerning Guts relationship to Gambino.

There's a lot of subtext for a dog that's in 3 pages of the manga?

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Guts first real fight against hopeless odds is against a pack of wolves immediately after being cast out of Gambino's camp.

And how would that have informed the Beast of Darkness' form? "Those wolves almost killed me, so I'll become like them?"

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Casca later calls him a mad dog or something approximating that.

That's a pretty common figure of speech. She wasn't being insightful about Guts' bestial mental persona (something that wouldn't manifest until years later). So I'm not sure what that has to do with the Beast of Darkness.

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  Guts leaves the Falcons to find his own path instead of being Griffith's loyal dog of war (my interpretation given the context).

Come on, now ... Guts uses his teeth in combat a lot. Is that another "dog theme" ?

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Most recently we see Guts represented as a dog dragging Casca's coffin in her dream.

Mmhm, that's Casca's perception of Guts. What does that have to do with the Beast of Darkness, in relation to what we were discussing before?

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it seems fitting that Guts' "spirit animal" is the canine.

Well it's certainly not like any dog or wolf I've ever seen. It has four legs and a tail, that much I'll agree with. But equating the Beast with a "dog" or "wolf" is a misnomer. It's called a beast for a reason. It's an exaggerated, monstrous creature meant to emphasize Guts' straying from humanity and becoming more beast than man. It's a thematic representation -- Guts as a lone, ravenous animal -- not something that was assembled in bits and pieces from Guts' experiences with canines.  Furthermore, if Miura wanted the association to be 100% canine, he'd have called it the 闇の犬.

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Manga Mausoleum / Re: Volume 39's cover slip
« on: September 29, 2017, 03:52:20 PM »
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but the creature in vol 39's margin looks really weird, it's the size of an elf, but it has white hair and purple skin, and it doesn't seem to have wings,

Sure, but ... there are dozens of different creatures revealed in 39 that haven't been named yet. What do you think makes this one more significant?

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and the mushroom creatures surrounding it haven't appeared either

You can see them in a few different episodes in Vol 39, including the opening page of 349.

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I wonder if it will play a role in the future, just like the foreshadowing of the cherry blossom tree in volume 38's cover margin.

Nitpicking, but I don't think that was really foreshadowing. The episode in which we see the cherry blossom tree came out the same time as Vol 38. Also, we always knew the Sovereign would be associated with a cherry blossom tree, due to the name.

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I think it's asking a bit much of Miura to have forecast the Beast of Darkness back in Vols 1-3. It's appearance once Guts is isolated from Puck and beaten down, close to death, makes sense to me.

Although I can see your perspective, the form of the beast has been foreshadowed throughout the series with the dog/wolf themes so it isn't exactly out of left field. 

Sorry, what "dog/wolf themes" ?

Doggie dialogue continues here: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=15383.msg249516;boardseen#new

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Video Games / Re: What Are You Playing?
« on: September 27, 2017, 01:31:00 AM »
Breath of the Wild is controlling my life at the moment. I might give some longer thoughts on it in the Zelda thread, but in short, it's fucking good!
Just grabbed that, will probably try it out after finishing Zelda(which will be never I guess)

I saw this on Reddit (Note her pin)



...and along with the Susumu inclusion, couldn't really avoid buying it immediately.  :daiba: About an hour in, I love it. Seems really well made, and tough as shit.

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Berserk Anime / Re: New Berserk Anime for 2016
« on: September 26, 2017, 05:02:18 PM »
At least they can market it as a LIMITED RELEASE!  :ganishka:

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Video Games / Re: What Are You Playing?
« on: September 26, 2017, 04:22:11 PM »
I'm not playing it YET, but Ruiner is out today. It's a Cyberpunk-inspired action game.

Was watching the launch trailer just now and was really surprised to see a familiar name: Susumu Hirasawa provided music for it.  :isidro:

TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg2uB60DFS0

(One) TRACK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF2y31Kt8KE

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Speculation Nation / Re: So i have this theory
« on: September 25, 2017, 08:19:10 PM »
But in a turn of event she sacrifices herself for guts.

Would they then have two brands? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89mVQhJ_rrk

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Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 22, 2017, 06:18:17 PM »
Kyle MacLachlan talks about Dougie's sex scene, and the floppy arms:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irRN40EYLag

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Now that you mention it, I dislike I little bit the way Puck's character went. He was serious back then, but now it seems he doesn't give a fuck

I don't think his attitude has changed. Miura just hasn't portrayed him as serious very often lately.


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After reading it for close to 2 decades, I'm a little too close to the material to objectively pick out major flaws. The problems I have with Berserk aren't bombshells or anything. Just little things that bug me occasionally, and three of these are things that will surely be remediated by the end of the story.

I think the pirate boss overstayed his welcome. He was on his fourth rematch with the group by the end [ Vritannis -> at sea (1) -> as sea god appendages (2) -> on the island at night (3) -> assault on the Sea Horse (4) ]. One less would have been easier to stomach, I think. But it's not as if the story revolved around him. He just became the "voice" of the opposition, and so he had to "survive" until that part of the story was done.

I also think that Miura has neglected three sub-characters over the years, at least in terms of their potential: Azan, Puck and Serpico. It's a result of how he chose to balance Guts' new group dynamic (I say new, but it's been this way for a decade now.)

The issue with Azan and Puck is straightforward: they've been relegated to comic relief. This is somewhat understandable with Puck, because he is as old as the series. Miura probably feels like it's okay for Puck to step out of the spotlight and have other characters take the role he once had as Guts' conscience. But it's been a loooooooooooong time since we got a really genuine moment with Puck (the last memorable one was a panel in Vol 27, fearing what the armor would do to Guts). Schierke has basically supplanted the role Puck once had with Guts, and I absolutely love their relationship. So all I'm asking for is more scenes that give Puck more to do as a character than serve as a foil for Isidro's antics.

Azan has been with the group since Ep 278 ("Setting Sail," 2007) but he's had primarily comedic moments -- no sit down with Farnese and Serpico about what happened after Albion. He's still technically pretending he doesn't recognize any of them, even though they have no troubles recognizing him.

These are both big missed opportunities, and I think it's because there's a lot happening all at once with these characters. I do expect some down time in Elfhelm to bring some of these characters to life, but when was the last time Berserk ever really had down time? (Volume 17?)

Serpico's problem is a bit more complicated... For several years now, he's lacked a clear motivation, which is odd for Miura's characters, since they usually all have very clear-cut motivations. His primary directive in life was protecting Farnese (from herself and from others). But she's grown up quite a bit over the years, and it's resulted in something akin to empty nest syndrome for Serpico (after kids grow up and leave their parents, what are the parents to do?) Combine that with him burying the hatchet with Guts in Vritannis, and Roderick entering the picture, Serpico has been pretty adrift with no obvious inflection point in sight. Now, that alone is not a problem or flaw because structurally, Miura is mid-development for the character. It'd be like complaining about Farnese in vol 23 when she was chafing between her old role and her new one (and people did  :farnese: ). I've got no doubts that there will be something in the future for Serpico that will make sense for his character. It's just that it's taken us a long time to get there, and it's felt to me like he's been in stasis since that duel with Guts.

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Berserk Miscellaneous / Re: Miura's 2017 Manga Seminar
« on: September 19, 2017, 08:13:48 PM »
Anime News Network translated a portion of the Natalie.Mu article on the seminar: www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2017-09-19/berserk-creator-reveals-he-based-band-of-the-hawk-on-high-school-friendship/.121503

Headline is misleading. Miura talked about the basis for the Falcons years ago.

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Berserk Miscellaneous / Miura's 2017 Manga Seminar
« on: September 18, 2017, 01:56:39 PM »
Over the weekend, Kentarou Miura gave his first manga seminar at an event for upcoming mangaka hosted by Hakusensha. I've scoured the internet for any photos leaked from the event, and I've come up empty.

However, here's an article (in Japanese) breaking down the event and what he said: http://natalie.mu/comic/news/249149

It's pretty clear that he or the publisher requested no photos be taken, and everyone seemed to have obliged the request. Oh well!

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Video Games / Re: What Are You Playing?
« on: September 15, 2017, 04:49:51 PM »
Just got home with Samus Returns. :guts:

Same!

I'd also like to shout out that Switch owners should check out Octopath Traveler's demo. 2 storylines, pick Primrose first. It is solid. The Knight's story almost made me completely stop...

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Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 14, 2017, 11:05:08 AM »
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Whether there will be a 4th season of Twin Peaks is too early to say, he told the crowd, adding that if the series would continue, fans would have to be extremely patient. Again. “It took me four and a half years to write and film this season.”

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/twin-peaks-season-4-years/

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Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Movies to look forward to
« on: September 13, 2017, 06:51:15 PM »
Well well, look who's back...
 Anyway, as lazy of an out as this seems I can't really think of a better choice.

Hey, The Leftovers is finished, so Damon Lindelof is free, right? How about a "dream team" tag team of Lindelof/Abrams?  :ganishka:

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Character Cove / Re: Griffith vs Serpico
« on: September 13, 2017, 04:29:19 PM »
What if causality dictates that he loses?

If that's a consideration why does this thread even exist? I think the more "what ifs" you strap to this thing, the more it prohibits people from weighing in with a legitimate take.

My personal addition: What if Serpico had diarrhea that day because Isidro happened to pick the wrong kind of berries? BUT Causality wasn't a factor.

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Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 11, 2017, 03:42:30 PM »
Two albums from the show are out today:

Score: https://rhino.lnk.to/TPSMP
Songs (mostly the Roadhouse performances): http://a.co/hmSSq6r

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Creation Station / Re: Lith's colors & tutorials
« on: September 10, 2017, 11:59:09 PM »
Yoo guys I have been deep in the grasp of like not doing very many stuff but in the background I've been working on one of the two page spreads forever.  I'm getting close to done so here's a preview. 



Hopefully I'll be back soon with the whole shebang.

-Lith

Wow! That is an ambitious recolor. Looks fantastic and can't wait to see the rest!

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