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Messages - Griffith

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Character Cove / Re: The Beast & Dog/Wolf Themes in Berserk
« on: October 01, 2017, 07:36:58 AM »
This debate sure has gotten dogmatic, huh boy?

My two cents is that the Beast obviously, though not exclusively, plays on the appearance of dogs and wolves (duh, right? well I said "obviously"), which can have a number of general meanings, like it being almost the proverbial "beast" and the one with the closest relation to man as a friend and foe, as well as ones specific to Guts (uh, he's encountered some dogs before and been called a dog on at least one occasion =). So, I don't think there's any harm in paying attention to such imagery throughout the series, even if that's all it is. It could potentially be allusury or subtextual (even retroactively), but it's not the text, and trying to codify it is where it falls apart because if Miura wanted it to be connected to Gambino's dog or something Guts would simply make that connection (and perhaps he will). In any case, given the appearances of the Beast as well as the lack of information we have connecting it to much else in particular, it's a little silly to furiously debate whether or not it looks like or is in fact a dog and how significant that is. I mean, look at all these pictures (and the one above), and I can't believe there aren't any already in a thread discussing the appearance of the Beast, and tell me what it all means:


Uh, yeah, it looks like a dog, but also definitely not (and the meaning and function of its appearance seems more related to representing how wild and dangerous or relatively "domesticated" the beast is behaving than anything else to do with dogs in the series). Frankly, I'm still more interested in how it manifests externally in its first appearance yet is part of Guts' psyche (did those ghosts in volume 16 read his mind or Incept him? =).

Next debate: is Skull Knight a skeleton or is that even a real skull, and are the skulls in the series a reference to him!? :SK:

Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« on: September 30, 2017, 06:34:43 PM »
I agree the show went downhill after it's season 4 peak (and now without a luxurious safety net of source material to fall back on as in the early seasons), but I don't think the problem is that there's too much fan service or that it's not being deferential enough to the source material, critiques that lie heavily on the perceptions of fans, it's just that the show hasn't been good in and of itself since it got boring in 5, crazy in 6, and frantic in in 7. It's not going to be the same as the books, and I don't put the books on a pedestal anyway (they omitted something from the book: oh now it can't be a good!), it's that the show stopped following it's own internal logic and has suffered accordingly. Make it completely different from the books for all I care, but make it good, and not so pat, with every good guy getting their triumphant revenge and every villain their just deserts, as you say.

Video Games / Re: Dark Souls II
« on: September 30, 2017, 04:55:09 AM »
I didn't realize it at the time, but Dark Souls 2 sunk nearly all of my goodwill towards that series, and I absolutely loved DS1. It's just a vacuous, frustrating experience compared to what came before. The most fun I had in that game was rolling around with a group of 3-4 random people near when the game launched, just mowing through enemies (beating the Pursuer during his little cameo appearance, too).

I know that Dark Souls 3 put the series back on track (right in time for it to be over!), and I've put ~8h into it at this point, but it hasn't recaptured the same passion as the first game, which had me completely entranced.

Yeah, and I think your love of the first game might also be a factor, ironically. You spent so much time playing and appreciating it that not only did you probably get more than your fill, but an experience impossible to match. DSII is probably a lot easier to swallow if one played and merely liked Souls than being "entranced" by it for 200+ hours. That's probably alsp part of the reason 3 never got much traction with you either; you pretty much already did Dark Souls to the hilt years ago, you already didn't need any more and II ran it into the ground. Back to your point, if DS3 had directly followed DS1 you might have played the shit out of it instead of so much more of the original Dark Souls.

Personally, despite a rocky start, I ultimately had a much more balanced experience with the three games, playing them relatively close together and giving each plenty of time, or more than enough in the case of DS2. My Dark Souls play hours:

Dark Souls II: 105 hours (roughly half before and half after DS1)
Dark Souls: 130 hours
Dark Souls II SotFS: 113 hours (Jesus, did I leave it on while I feel asleep or something, 200+ hours of DS2? -_-)
Dark Souls III: 200 hours

So, technically, I played DS1 for the LEAST amount of time, but I can confirm it was the best quality of time and leaves the strongest impression if not the "fondest" memories: the introduction, discovering and defeating the hydra, wandering the Duke's Archives and descending into the Crystal Cave, just magical stuff, and of course there's New Londo, Blightown, and the Tomb of Giants! :magni: So, these numbers are a bit deceptive, Dark Souls is a game I ultimately stopped playing because I was wholly satisfied and could move on before I actually diminished the experience; I didn't get tired of it, and I didn't want to, I wanted to have that experience again. Whereas Dark Souls II is a game I kept playing because I couldn't get satisfaction, desperately trying to have that experience again only to be left wanting (sounds a bit like the plot, actually =). Dark Souls III on the other hand, that was just what I was looking for to scratch that itch and so I played the hell out of it until I *DID* get tired of it, which is fine. I'm done and uninstalled them all because after 548 hours of Dark Souls I've died enough... well, unless I ever want to finish those last DS2 DLCs and try it's NG+, or Demon's Souls, or Bloodborne... I just don't know if I have the 200+ hours these days.

Oh, and because I never tire of the irony of this: "Wally, you should really play Dark Souls (III)!" Also, you'll have to forgive me for not watching Sneakers yet, because if history is any indicator I'm eventually going to watch it approximately 250 times and/or spend 15 years of my life posting at

Video Games / Re: Dark Souls II
« on: September 29, 2017, 01:34:10 AM »
Starting Dark Souls II up for the first time, I could immediately tell going from Dark Souls I to Dark Souls II was an extremely bad idea.
Dark Souls II, in my opinion, made a lot of missteps, and the introduction was only the first among them.

DSII is like some officially branded but licensed generic version of Dark Souls; it's trying to copy it, but it doesn't directly, everything is sorta different, yet it's frustratingly trying to parallel, connect, or at least bend toward some continuity that isn't really there (it's like they tried to make it fit with Dark Souls after the fact when they were really doing something else from the start). It also doesn't have the weird lore or the fascinating, interconnected world and environments to fill you with the same dread and whimsy (it's more like any generic fantasy game). On the other hand, it's actually got it's own thing going on and trying something a little different, plus it's HUGE, it's like Dark Souls ad infinitum and you can summon so many people it's ridiculous: Dark Souls the MMO. :ganishka:

From the gate, character movement seems so.. off.
If you think rolling feels off when you do it in a vacuum, wait 'til you actually try to seriously use it to dodge enemies.

Or, at least it could have been DS Online, except as you both say, the controls don't feel like Dark Souls either. I've still never gotten used to it, no matter how high I level my iframes, and it was the first Souls game I started (so if you think it's relative coming from 1 I actually went from 2 to 1 =)! DS1's and 3's rolls and hitboxes are far more fair/forgiving depending on how you look at it, and I've read a lot of people saying that DS2 is actually the easiest one but that hasn't been my experience at all no matter how I tried to exploit the benchmarks. It just never feels comfortable, like my character is wearing weights or underwater or something.

Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 24, 2017, 05:44:55 AM »

This came out better than his previous "experiments:"

 :ganishka: :magni:

And since it was a hot topic of conversation among us here's an interview with Lynch on the music & sound design of The Return including Bowie's voice and what his tea kettle form was supposed to be.

Update: God damn link didn't paste.

Video Games / Re: Dark Souls
« on: September 24, 2017, 05:03:55 AM »
I played Demon's Souls years after Dark Souls and was surprised with how much I loved it. Ended up being one of my favorite games of all time.


But yeah, try DS2 and DS3 out, they're both inferior to the original, but worth giving a shot if you've got the time. I actually thought DS2 was okay, and played through it a bunch of times, but really didn't like 3.

Interesting, DS2 was my first and I have a real love/hate relationship with it to this day; I want to love it and always end up sort of hating it. DS1 was an on again/off again experience until I finally found my groove and then it was really ON, just an all-time classic that lives up to the legend. That enthusiasm carried over to DS3 for me in a big way and I played the hell of it from every angle, numerous NG+'s, all the DLC, even elements I usually rather avoid like the various forms of multiplayer were embraced. Though, as definitive as it tries to be I realize it's ultimately just as derivative. And strangely, I've put the most time into 2 (over 200 hours between the original and SOTFS) even though it's my least favorite, the one I'm least adept at, and I've yet to complete its final DLC or try its more comprehensive and intriguing NG+. I guess that's why it's the one I still fire up every once in a while; unfinished business, and I'm still looking for something I think is there but haven't quite found. I never quite mastered it and never quite figured out if it was worth it.

Video Games / Re: Dark Souls
« on: September 23, 2017, 08:48:27 PM »
I'd also recommend Dark Souls III if you get tired of replaying NG+; unlike DS2 it's a true sequel and very much a love letter to the original Dark Souls, and I'm told Demon's Souls as well.

As for DS1 I had issues with NG+ because I used a fully upgraded Divine Claymore in my initial run and it was just too weak against most NG+ bosses for my taste. But then upgrading weapons to +10 can be a pain in the ass so I didn't want to be screwing around experimenting to find what I liked, so I just tried the Black Knight weapons and they're ridiculously powerful and relatively easy to upgrade to their +5 max with twinkling titanite. The axe does crazy damage, but halberd isn't far behind and is much faster with an better moveset. I think I read later it's possibly the best weapon in the game (and technically you can get it from a random drop in the first 10 minutes).

As for Seath, if I recall the Paladon armor should still work... or you can just cheese him to death with arrows. =)

Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 16, 2017, 03:20:09 AM »
Without the anxiety of wanting to know where this is all going, people will finally be able to fully embrace Jacoby painting shovels, Steven mumbling in the woods, etc.

Well, I don't know if I'll embrace all those scenes (I never minded Jacoby though =), but true enough that the urge to see what happens next and for satisfaction can taint the moment and cause any digression, however interesting, to feel like a delay.

edit: :sad:

Ah man, conversations about the series with my dad naturally gravitated toward his presence; old as hell, but still the same Harry Dean Stanton!

This was fast:

Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 15, 2017, 04:28:11 PM »
He should just make a 2 hour long movie without pointless scenes and it would be both high quality and produced relatively fast.
Mulholland Drive was supposed to be a show. He only filmed the pilot and after tv execs rejected it, he filmed another half and made it into a feature, in what is considered by critics as the best movie of the century - - I don't know if i agree, but it's certainly his best movie.

While I certainly had my complaints, and aren't as bullish on it all as Eluvei, I don't know that the more extraneous stuff was "pointless" or worthless, like filler. Maybe useless to the overarching plot, but not to the mood, tone, themes and viewing experience as a whole (sometimes the point was them and the feeling they elicited existing in and of themselves, and sometimes I learned more about certain characters and sympathized with them, like Shelly and Bobby, through others, like their daughter and her troubles. Anyway, I would have wanted some of the content about two thirds of the way through to be more balanced with the plot (though I'm not even sure that wasn't intentionally referencing some ghosts of Twin Peaks past), but I don't know that I would have excised anything entirely. My usually strong belief in the principles of storytelling economy need not apply here.

Sometimes creativity needs obstructions.

Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 15, 2017, 06:56:32 AM »

Ahhhh, the sweet validation I so desperately crave. A point of Karma to you, sir!

Hmmm, something to focus his creative energy into in his twilight years. Probably a good thing if he can come up with an idea worthwhile enough to step on the meaning of this one, at least the ending, a bit.

He should just make a 2 hour long movie without pointless scenes and it would be both high quality and produced relatively fast.

Hey now! And have you seen Fire Walk With Me? Is that really what he did? Actually, I like The Missing Pieces too so I can't say anything. =)

The Third Season will be out on DVD and Blu-ray on December 5, 2017


Because these wonderful design ideas were already taken:


They should have got in touch with @crisvector because, again, he has all the promotional artwork they'll ever need:

I mean, Jesus Christ:

Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Movies to look forward to
« on: September 13, 2017, 07:17:29 PM »
I wish it was Brad Bird, but Abrams is fine.

Ah ha, it was Bird who said Trevorrow reminded him of himself (couldn't recall)! That would have been funny.

Hey, The Leftovers is finished, so Damon Lindelof is free, right? How about a "dream team" tag team of Lindelof/Abrams?  :ganishka:

Finally a Star Wars movie for Nightcrawler!  :troll: It would also help that Lindelof would "logically" remove all pre-established connections to Star Wars and replace them with generic offshoots based on them, "What if we made the Wookies little and the Ewoks huge and called them Eikoows amd Kowes!? BRILLIANT!!"

Or better yet, speaking of would-be Star Wars directors, how about George Lucas' original choice for the third part of the trilogy: :carcus:

Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 13, 2017, 06:04:06 AM »
They are releasing a soundtrack?  :ganishka:
90% of the music appeared in other formats years ago or in other Lynch's projects.
As a composer i found it sad that they didn't hire someone to score the show, and it was distracting to recognize most of the rehashed music from other movies/albums.

Well, that's sad to hear, fortunately my familiarity with his work overall is limited enough that any recycled music, other than from Twin Peaks, didn't affect me, but I also assumed the minimalist score was otherwise intentional (or maybe he was just that into his own sound design). I honestly think I prefer the approach here than the original series' ubiquitous use of Laura Palmer's theme, Audrey's Dance and Freshly Squeezed (or variations such as Dance of the Dream Man) whether they were particularly warranted or elevating to a scene or not. Although that did work for the tone of the original Twin Peaks, I don't know that more Badalamenti or even a more traditional score would have worked better. You can disagree with the approach, choices or ultimately the results, but I don't think one can say music wasn't considered central to The Return either. It was a pretty prominent and notable fixture, even when it wasn't (much more than hums or tones, that is).

Update: New, original video uploaded.

I uploaded a new explanation of how to interpret the chronology and events of those last couple of episodes...

Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Movies to look forward to
« on: September 13, 2017, 05:53:29 AM »
Well well, look who's back...

Seems a good, if obvious, trade since Trevorrow's Lucas/Spielberg impression is really just a worse version of Abrams' and it actually gives this trilogy a symmetry like the original (hopefully not TOO much like the original though, amirite!? :troll:). Anyway, as lazy of an out as this seems I can't really think of a better choice. Rian Johnson could change my mind of course, or fuck up Luke Skywalker. Other than that I guess it would have been nice to finally fulfill the prophecy of Spielberg directing one of these things, but I think he pinky swore with George to never do that, or it's some ego thing of his own ("I'm bigger than George's one movie"). Plus, he hasn't been in his prime for a while now anyway. It'd be like getting Michael Jordan on your team but from the Wizards. Probably better to take the current All-Star than watch Spielberg make his own version of the prequel debacle instead of adding the fun or pathos you might expect.

I think the gentleman doth flatter me. Though what do you mean by this anomalous request? [Role-play? Does he question my authenticity? Can he see right through me? Does he somehow gaze past the mask hiding the empty, insatiable void of ambition which drives me exhaustively to lie, betray, and murder my way to the top!? I must destroy this threat or become a thrall to fear...] ...Ahem, I mean, surely you jest, but of course my friend, for who else would I write these missives as other than myself? You are clearly also one of fine taste. We should meet and make merry some night at a lovely tavern I know in the old part of town. Do not mind the late hour, for you will be under my protection and I swear to see you safely to your rest.

Cheers! :griffnotevil:


Character Cove / Re: Griffith vs Serpico
« on: September 12, 2017, 10:53:19 PM »
Oh, I completely agree, this decadent dandy would be no match for me! Now, he did trade blows three times, once for an extended period, with someone that last beat me in one stroke, but pay no heed. The more I think on it, the more I think my sword had a defect. It was the sword that lost, not Griffith!


I truly appreciate the vote of confidence, though I had little thought to what I was doing! I certainly did not think victory was assured and only out of stubbornness and the arrogance of never having lost did I go through with it and think I could possibly beat him on the first strike. I was basically gambling my life, and his if I was successful, on a single sword stroke as Guts did against Zodd (or so he told me). Unfortunately, his strength and skill completely rendered mine moot and he not only broke my sword but had the control, strength and presence of mind to stop his before cutting me down. As you can tell from my expression at the time, I was just as surprised he could do that as anyone (as a matter of fact, I had to bathe and change my undergarments before I went to rape the princess). I understand it was ultimately an act of compassion and friendship, but that mercy only made it more humiliating for someone such as myself. Anyway, thank you for keeping the faith my friend, that is still my only loss as far as I am concerned... and as you say, mayhaps there was a defect in my sword after all... :griffnotevil:


Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: What are you watching? (television thread)
« on: September 12, 2017, 06:06:17 AM »
Other than that, Twin Peaks continues to be a joy and a surprise to return to each episode. Anyone on the fence about it should hop off now and re-watch the first season or so. Joining in fresh for this season would be inviting frustration.

"I DED ETT!!!"

Now, continuing with Rick & Morty Season 3, with some background from the Twin Peaks thread...

Or one could just watch Rick & Morty, the best written, most consistent Sunday show on this year.

Man, I'm totally not on board with Rick and Morty this year. I think I only liked the pilot so far.

I disagree on an episode by episode basis, but I can understand this for the season as a whole (though your objections might be different, YMMV, etc). It's been too much of a normally good thing, like every episode is some deep, dark exploration and deconstruction of the characters, until literally becoming so in the most recent episode, but you can't do that every time out. A little of that goes a long way, like a few big emotional moments or payoffs per season, but it's kind of taking over the show to the point the adventures themselves are suffering and its ironically becoming flat and repetitive with depth. In any case, with the time they took to write it and these results I think they're trying too hard and won't be able to sustain it. The show is still relatively fresh and in it's prime and I feel like they could dial back the quality/quantity ratio a bit and put out more great episodes before they burn out trying to make every one more significant than the last (this is what happened to Gn'R on the Use Your Illusions albums =). I never thought I'd say this but we need an Interdimensional Cable episode (that somehow doesn't devolve into self-loathing).

I think you nailed it. And for some reason, I'm finding the jokes too telegraphed this season. Not sure if it was always like this and I just fell out of love with it, or what.

The latest episode, The Ricklantis Mixup, may be the most balanced since the first episode of this season, it's over the top fun and continues the dark character development of our heroes, but implicitly for once this season. It's both far better as a wacky multi-story adventure and a character dive that let's you fill in the blanks and shows how smart the writers are ("Put it in your blog") without shoving the message down your throat. I'm glad we're likely coming back around to this to end the season, and that it'll likely help payoff this season's almost neurotic pathos. Prediction: Eyepatch Morty knows Rick C-137's weakness, his genuine love of his Morty, and will kill Morty C-137 to fully break Rick. This will ultimately lead Rick to find a way to revive Morty, via Superman-like time reversal, or "hopefully something less hacky" or a much darker alternative where an angry Rick violently triumphs but starts over with a new Morty and truly loses what secret thread of humanity he had. Possible alternatives that changes everything: Eyepatch Morty is Morty C-137 from the future, and the only one with the balls/lessons learned to go against Rick(s)! :isidro: or what becomes of experimental dramatic Morty. Whatever.

Shootin' the Breeze / Re: Adventures in YouTube
« on: September 12, 2017, 05:46:03 AM »

The is about the best argument for Star Wars over Star Trek I've ever heard, clearly delivered without cue cards and at least partly improvised, besides, "it's more visceral," which pretty much amounts to the same. Also, it's the only time I recall a genuine compliment from Conan and a peek at their true rapport.

Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 11, 2017, 07:49:00 PM »
Yeah, very refreshing to read an interpretation that actually tries to solve the mystery, and I don't know how he managed to put that together so cohesively this quickly.

Thanks, pretty good articles, the AV Club one got me kinda :judo:.

I defended the "happy" scenes throughout the show as sincere, but as I said earlier, I had trouble believing this also applied to the goofy battle against BOB. It was too insane for me to take as anything other than at least some kind of dream, and Cooper's superimposed face showing up appeared to confirm it. But when I read the guy in the AV Club article saying "meta" isn't in Lynch's vocabulary, it reminded me of a thing from an old article I read earlier this year:

Quote from:

Yeah, based on the unorthidox yet authentic feelings, or at least unorthidox shades or gradients of authentic feeling, Lynch taps into I can totally buy that everything he's presenting, as far as everyone on screen is feeling, good and bad, is presented in good faith. Basically, he's laughing/crying with the characters and with us, not at them/us. He's made several statements to that effect including the opening of The Return where everyone assumed he was outright mocking appointment/prestige TV with The Experiment, which is still a fantastic interpretation BTW, but he claims it was another happy accident and not a statement he was going out of his way to make.

Griffith , Walter :

...If you both recall Cooper warned Laura while in the Red Room in FWWM not to take the Owl/Infinity Ring as I believe he knew it's what binds her to an endless loop a loop he becomes the last piece of by trying to save her . So if we're talking about an endless cycle that explains why Cooper is so old in The Red Room in s1ep3 as he would be in his 6th cycle.

I don't get that, maybe because I'm stuck in my pre-S3 interpretations, not that I held them long, or not thinking about it enough, but my understanding was the ring prevented her from being possessed by BOB so he killed her (and seems to bind, at least most, people to the Lodge upon death). Is that the cycle you're talking about, because if we're talking the "Möbius-strip" interpretation, on it's face wasn't that actually more a consequence caused by Cooper's intervention? Feel free to explain why I'm just not getting it, because any more explanation is welcome.

Two albums from the show are out today:

Songs (mostly the Roadhouse performances):

I've been listening to a lot of the Season 1, 2, and FWWM (THE BLACK DOG RUNS AT NIGHT) soundtracks lately, particularly for inspiration while working on The Faces of Cooper photoshop, first straight through a few times and then on shuffle. I was surprised and disappointed these weren't already available but now look forward to adding them to the playlist!

Update: Oh shit, it's got ZZ Top on it! :isidro:

By my calculations he's cranking the volume past 11 to at least 16, if not 17! :ganishka:

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 346
« on: September 09, 2017, 07:50:25 AM »
My first thought (which I still hold) is that he decided to style them after the original "Puck Knight" picture, just for the reference.

Agreed, it's a pretty iconic shot of Puck from its time, so it's a nice and natural callback to make.

Creation Station / Re: Griff's Colors
« on: September 09, 2017, 06:22:56 AM »
Threw this idea about the many faces of Cooper together as a gag after the end of Twin Peaks: The Return *SPOILERS*, but then went back and kind of spruced it up enough to be an avatar and toss it in here (there's still a few things that could be better, so I may add or improve more details, but in that case I'll just stealth reupload):

The idea is based on the many sides of Cooper we see over the course of Twin Peaks ala the five faces of Shiva in Hindu art. Here's the base source image, preferred for its Peaky background as well as the viability to more easily photoshop Coopers on it. From left to right: Cooper as "Dougie Jones," the Dougie Jones Tupla, Special Agent Dale Cooper, Richard, and Mr. C the evil Cooper doppelganger. Additions to the rest of the image include Laura Palmer superimposed above them (I should have superimposed a giant image of Cooper's face over the whole thing =), the key to Coop's room at the Great Northern in his lap as he sits on blue "rose" petals on top of a skinned owl, and he holds in his hands a golden shovel, a slice of cherry pie, the log, and no doubt a cup of damn fine coffee. He's also wearing a ring you might recognize.

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 346
« on: September 09, 2017, 05:37:49 AM »
Yep, either that initial image was based on canon Elf Knight lore or it's the life in the art imitating the art in the art. My favorite possibility though is Miura just had the same idea twice independently when it came to designing the armor of the Elvin guards. More likely he just couldn't get it out of his head because it's pretty neat, and of course he uses similarly styled "armor" in Gigantomakhia.

Video Games / Re: What Are You Playing?
« on: September 08, 2017, 09:18:07 PM »
Trying and failing to kick my Breath of the Wild addiction, with my Master Sword upgraded I can make mince meat of Golden Lynels, but I wont be satisfied until I can kill Vaati, Majora, Zant, Ghirahim, Ganon, Demise, Aghanim and Bellum in a single sword stroke.
So confused... are those all in the game?

I tried looking that up and couldn't find anything. That'd be a hell of a DLC. =)

Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 08, 2017, 07:21:58 AM »
No doubt. I always thought the Giant sounded... disappointed? And yeah it's kinda hilarious for the guy to interrupt a concert to tell him he sucks as a detective. :ganishka:

His tone borders on betrayed, but he could have been more straightforward sooner, still...

"What does it all mean?! :???:"

And I have no idea why this popped up in the image search but here you go:

Effects test for season 4 of Twin Peaks: The Explanation starring Annie & Audrey

Really enjoyed reading this take, even if some things here and there don't really fit completely:

Damn fine read, and like you said you don't have to agree with all the details or conclusions but at least it lays out a logical framework of the facts to work with, and you can't reject it for being too zany because the logic of the lodges is. Anyway, that's the best postmortem I've read, not that the competition is great ("it's about the show and ending and stuff!"); these are about the only other two I liked, but they focused more on what Lynch was saying rather than what was technically happening, echoing your conversation with Nightcrawler that I didn't feel quite comfortable wading into (the second article in particular touches on a lot of the same themes you debated with Nighty and obviously comes away with a more positive interpretation):

Oh, and I looked up the first episode of Dumbland. :ganishka:

I forgot to mention: "See you at the curtain call" was one of the coolest goodbye lines ever. Though somewhat downgraded by them being reunited next to an actual curtain.

Speaking of bad articles, there's paid writers out there poetically lamenting that "there'll never be that curtain call" without mentioning the fact Coop and Diane literally reunite next to a giant red stage curtain! Anyway, there's theories about the chronology of the episode being all mixed up (what else is new?) and that Coop and Diane are somehow reuniting in episode 17 AFTER the events of 18, explaining why they're so happy (they were both trapped and haven't spoken in decades?), why they kiss so passionately and she's not at all put off by the face of her rapist (uh, the real Coop's kiss is right? Ok, that one is weird), and why Coop's face superimposes over the screen dreamsplaining, but it all doesn't quite follow, particularly their path back there or lack thereof.

Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 06, 2017, 05:01:20 PM »
Yeah there's absolutely a more verite look to those scenes. I mean, we watched Agent Cooper filling his gas at Valero. But also, it had a kind of odd violent wild west vibe with the shootout and the rotting body, so yeah, realistic and surreal sounds right. Extremely weird.

It was almost like a cartoon character being transported into the real world. Coop was still relatively good, heroic and competent, but it wasn't squeaky clean and he didn't have the same perfect composure (I mean, he pointed that gun at the waitress too =). I wouldn't go as far as Nighty and say he lost his humanity, actually I think you could argue he became more human for his relative flaws, not less, but he definitely lost his innocence in a way we didn't even see in the black lodge. MacLachlan described his direction for Richard as a bit "harder" than the normal Coop and I really appreciate his performance in this episode, the tone of his "what" in response to the cowboy is right out of the Mr. C playbook and I think about the closest you'll hear to the real Coop egging someone on. So, in its own strange way this felt like a new start and the most real and in depth we've ever gone with Coop (and I wondered how he was going to fit into the new show once reestablished), like we were meeting a real Agent Cooper for the first time after we got the platonic ideal again in episode 16. Of course, you should never meet your heroes.

The motel was also a different one when he wakes up.

Well, of course I missed THAT. :schierke:

It definitely looked like Coop and Diane were following some kind of script to change the reality even then. "Turn the lights off. You come here to me." Like it was some kind of ritual they had to perform correctly. The sex scene being no exception.

They're performing the ritual of a prestige television show! They needed to have a gratuitous sex scene in order to advance time to a future point, then Coop needed to have a hard-boiled confrontation that really puts him over with us and only then can he find Laura and go back to Twin Peaks. Except that doesn't work either, Laura's not Laura, Twin Peaks just looks like any empty streets at night, and Laura's house has real people living in it. Maybe Lynch was hoping that at some point this ritual would conjure  Judy or the experiment in our televisions so it could break out and slaughter us. Now that would have been an ending (I think even if Lynch had pulled a cheesy jump scare like that I'd have still had a coronary or shat my pants =)!

Yeah, if after Inland Empire his next project ended with the super glove defeating the evil ball in earnest and Candie being glad she brought so many sandwiches for the wrap party, I dunno what I would have thought.

My guess as to your reaction in that case: "Still the Best Show Ever!" :carcus: But yeah, this is definitely a revelation and significant work after a decade of relative inactivity. Vintage Lynch whether you think its among his best work or not.

That was kind of a foreboding music choice though, wasn't it? Last time we heard it, was in the "it is happening again" scene.

Good call on the relative timing (when Laura herself should have been getting murdered), but it's also just more classic Peaks because that Julie Cruise music is all over the original soundtrack. BTW, also good time to note Coop was never above screwing up as the Giant is literally waving his arms at him and telling him the killer is striking again while he's just like "HUH?" It was hilariously about the least subtle or confusing message delivered on the show.

I don't have any big take and i'm trying hard not to geek out over all the theories, i just wanted to say i found the whole experience rather cold and sterile.

Awww, I hope it didn't all feel to you like episodes 12 and 13 to me, because that's where it obviously lost me, and others, for a bit. Also, not to accuse you of contrarianism (never =), but I think it'd be easier to note the show's virtues rather than its flaws if all the critics weren't climbing over each other to be the loudest to declare it the greatest thing ever without really explaining why they think so (a fair thing to reject if you feel it falls short). Maybe the show just wholly didn't do it for you and you weren't paying any attention to the hype, but it worked for me despite the fact I saw a bunch of pub blowing it and saying it's a whole "new proactive paradigm" for television... in ways that will be explained another time. Not that my critical take is much better, basically describing it a series of offbeat stimuli that makes me feel some unfamiliar sensations that I ultimately like experiencing (put that on the back if the blu-ray).

The lack of music made a big difference, Lynch's sound design is serviceable, but it's only half of the dream-like state his films induce. It seems Badalamenti was only credited but didn't add anything new. A shame, for the lack of a proper score gave me a sense of detachment and a lack of vibrancy i get when i watch his stuff.

I can see, er hear, what you mean. The music was very subdued most of the time, to the point that my wife and I would have subtitles on and notice it saying [ambient music] and that was basically our only indication that the barely audible droning tone was providing any bed of music to a scene. I thought this was largely intentional though for contrast with the tone of the original (and particularly the town of Twin Peaks itself, which stood out like a sore thumb to the rest of the world, but I think that proved purposeful too), and that the big musical moments, particularly the return of iconic Twin Peaks scores, were being used judiciously to punctuate those moments. I otherwise thought the sound was pretty excellent at conveying the feel of the story, even if it was a less is more approach overall. 

The bad digital effects expanded on the absence of emotion for me.

I agreed with your assessment of the effects in the early episodes and objectively found them hit or miss throughout, but by the time we reached Diane's first farewell it was clearly part of the aesthetic experience, not a hurdle to it.

I felt completely uncaring for most of the events until part 18 hit me several hours later.

It hit definitely hit though, and judging from your assessment below it doesn't sound like it's making you feel nothing anymore. I guess I had a better experience throughout, I definitely felt a lot of interesting feelings watching, albeit sometimes exasperation, but it was definitely a worthwhile viewing experience that made me consider the way media makes me feel, why, and why don't more shows make me feel these different sort of untapped emotions watching or seemingly even try? I think everything that came before definitely sets up the way the ending leaves you feeling as well. It was ultimately still the journey, but a different sort, more insular despite the explicit, and perhaps extraneous, lore and theories, with different narrative priorities, milestones, and goals, or lack thereof, than we're used to.

If FWWM had some form of redemption at the end, this season had none. No heart or soul (Dougie was the closest to it), and the bleakest ending possible. A lost Coop, losing his humanity while realizing that Laura can't be saved, no matter how much the world has changed, suffering is perpetual.

Hey man, death is change and happiness is but an illusion... or dream (and I hope this cheers you up a bit despite the crude effects =).

No one screams like Sheryl Lee.

Indeed, make room in the Scream Queen Hall of Fame Fay Wray and Jamie Lee Curtis. Good lord I had to have the volume control handy after like the 2nd scream, she still got me at the end.

Anyway, again, no surprises (except I wasn't so sure what to rate it right after =):

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