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Messages - Griffith

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9551
Character Cove / Re: Niko
« on: August 06, 2001, 03:55:18 PM »
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Well... I didn't.  ;D
Not seriously, anyway...

;) Neither did I, but I wanted to make sure it was totally implausible.
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The problem remains: if Mandragora didn't exist back then, that would mean that Eriza was still insane.  :-/

What's the problem?
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Maybe Eriza used to be like Niko, that’s why she’s the only sane Mandragora.  That could be why she empathizes with them (and Niko) so much, she used to be that way.  Eriza tells Guts and Rita at one point that she wishes she was a Mandragora, though it was a lie, I think she yearned to be like her old self again.  She had to shoulder the burden of being human, she had to deal with those newfound feelings of sadness and hate.  That’s why she was always so somber and depressed, and why she ultimately killed herself.

Or, do you have a problem with her being insane and a Nun?

-Griffith

9552
Character Cove / Re: Niko
« on: August 06, 2001, 03:39:31 PM »
I considered the possibility of her being the Apostle.  But, it just doesn’t add up, the dog, Niko’s “death” and if Niko was simply a victim of Mandragora rather than it’s source he should have had a normal mind when Guts “met” him.  

So why did Eriza say she found Niko dead?  She was lying, just trying to get Guts to leave town, telling him about the giant Niko-Tree Apostle living in the basement wouldn’t have been a good idea.

-Griffith

9553
Character Cove / Re: Niko
« on: August 06, 2001, 12:51:35 PM »
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I think the reason that she retained her intelligence was that she already was so kind and gentle she needed no mental transformation to enjoy her new shape.

Maybe Eriza used to be like Niko, that’s why she’s the only sane Mandragora.  That could be why she empathizes with them (and Niko) so much, she used to be that way.  Eriza tells Guts and Rita at one point that she wishes she was a Mandragora, though it was a lie, I think she yearned to be like her old self again.  She had to shoulder the burden of being human, she had to deal with those newfound feelings of sadness and hate.  That’s why she was always so somber and depressed, and why she ultimately killed herself.
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By the way... I do so love Guts reaction to the Nun's little speech about the virtues of insanity. If someone has the quote where he says what he thinks about humanity I would love to have it. I know that there are transcripts of the game, but unfortunately I don't have one...
This is Guts speech, edited so that it works without Eriza’s dialogue in between.

“If they look different and there hearts are different, then they are not human.  It’s true, humans are greedy and vicious, but I am human; I don’t mind spilling blood to get what I want.”

-Griffith


9554
Character Cove / Re: Niko
« on: August 06, 2001, 04:09:52 AM »
I think we can all agree that Niko is in fact a tree, an ugly retarded one at that, but how about some speculation on how it happened?

-Griffith

9555
Character Cove / Re: Niko
« on: August 05, 2001, 10:17:35 PM »
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why would he turn into a tree though??
when people turn into apostles they usually are turned into something that has something to do with them, right?
ie; Snake Baron-giant ugly snake thingy, Roshinu-ugly naked moth, Niko-ugly retarded tree...
this making any sense??
so what im basically wondering is what would connect him to the mandragora, or a plant at all...

Long answer:  Well, I'm sure the Snake Baron's name wasn't really the "Snake Baron".  Why did the Count become a disgusting plant/slug thing? Who the hell knows.  I assume the Apostles get their form and power according to their wish/dream, like the Egg-Apostle.  If Niko’s wish was for everyone to be like him then the Mandragora is what you would get, it's like the Count and Zondark on a world wide scale.  Notice how Eriza’s description of people with Mandragora is almost exactly the same as her decription of Niko?

Short anwer: 'Cause the kids as dumb as a plant. ;D *rimshot*

-Griffith

9556
Character Cove / Niko
« on: August 05, 2001, 09:42:25 PM »
Okay, while attempting to write up an updated version of the Niko FAQ entry and I ran into some trouble.  Namely, I wanted to go into great detail about how he became an Apostle and what not, but all that is left a bit ambiguous.  I’m pretty damn sure how it happened, but it’s still just a theory, no matter how likely.  Here's some backround for those who never played the game (excerpt from the middle of the entry).

"Niko is a gentle and simple-minded soul.  Because Niko was different the other townspeople would mistreat and abuse him, but no matter what his misfortune Niko was still happy just for the gift of life."

Here's the speculation part:

So, when Niko was dying out in front of the church, his love of life and desire to live summoned God Hand.  He sacrificed his dog and wished that everyone was like him (because he feels they aren’t truly happy and being an outcast pains him, perhaps he wished to be like everyone else, lots of implications there).  Hence, he becomes the Mandragora Tree and everyone who comes in contact becomes like Niko (only with a added touch of evil).  So, the Mandragora are akin Roshinu’s children or Zondark rather than being a real disease.

So, what’s everyone else out there think of this idea? Any others?

-Griffith

9557
Character Cove / Re: Guts dream?
« on: August 15, 2001, 10:16:56 PM »
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that similar goal...is it to defy fate and create the freedom to create one's path)?

Bingo.

But greater like you said, they may just have to destroy fate.

-Griffith

9558
Character Cove / Re: Guts dream?
« on: August 15, 2001, 07:52:27 PM »
Hmmm, well, you seem to agree with me for the most part.

A few things though…
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Remember the talk Guts had with Corkus and Judeau just before he left?  What about the talk with Casca after they rescued Griffith? Try to remember those. An important concept here is the that individuals can do very little, but a group, the combination of their talents/sacrifice can accomplish a great deal.  On the other hand, not all of the goals by the group can be accomplished, often they need ot focus on ONE dream first.  During the process, priority is given to the strongest dream/goal, while the members submerged their individual dreams for a while.  

This could be true hypothetically, but it just wasn’t the relationship that Griffith and the Hawks had.  The Hawks were supposed to be in the service of Griffith’s dream, it wasn’t about them, whether they knew it or not. Guts realized this and that’s why he left.
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Guts didn't have a dream when he decided to leave the Hawks, and thus the warming himself by the fires comment as mentioned.  IT was perhaps  a good thing he left, because i think he understood that for good or for ill he had to at least understood his dream first, because while he was in the Hawks, his own desires will be stifled as long as he worked for the greater cause...that of Griffith's dreams  When he returned and helped rescued Griffith, Casca told him to go on alone to pursuit his dream, knowing that it will also consume the dreams of his followers(the raiding team) as well.  Having Griffith along will always 'dilute' that cause...making it very difficult for Guts to achieve anything.  
that's y take on this, what do you think? ::)

Ten four.  Except, it’s not necessarily having Griffith along, it’s just if they’re working for his goal.  As I and others have speculated, it’s quite possible that Guts and Griffith may have the same dream in the future.

-Griffith

9559
Character Cove / Re: Guts dream?
« on: August 15, 2001, 11:33:58 AM »
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Actual ly,  I thought Guts was implying that each of those small flames represented a given person's dream, but instead of those people letting the flames (dreams) die, they brought it a larger flame; Griffith's...making it larger.  

Almost, they bring their dream, but if their not careful their little fire will be blown into Griffith’s huge one, and their little dream will die.  Look at what happened to the Hawks that stayed loyal to Griffith after he was imprisoned, they lost their dream in Griffith’s and had nowhere else to go.  Anyway, I think the analogy is best proved by the Sacrifice at the Eclipse, the ‘campfire of dreams’ analogy is very similar to the ‘stacking bodies’ analogy.  Of course the latter is a much darker and probably more realistic way of looking at it.

-Griffith

9560
Character Cove / Re: Guts dream?
« on: August 15, 2001, 02:01:26 AM »
I think it was the best thing he could do for himself at the time.  If he had stayed he would have just been wasting his life as a noble. Hell, Casca didn’t even realize her feelings for Guts until he left, and I don’t know if it would have been possible for them to get together if he had stayed.  She probably would have carried a torch for Griffith the rest of her life. I think it was the right choice, had he stayed, he would have forever been known as Griffith’s second in command, the guy who helped Griffith so much, Griffith’s best friend…but he would have had no identity of his own.

-Griffith

P.S. Up to my usual standards?

9561
Character Cove / Re: Guts dream?
« on: August 15, 2001, 01:42:21 AM »
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indeed......................................................................... ::)

I’m sensing a tad of sarcasm…do you think Guts should have done otherwise?

-Griffith

9562
Character Cove / Re: Guts dream?
« on: August 15, 2001, 01:34:49 AM »
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so it was like he was convincing himself that it would be better if he were to leave the Hawks...

you think its a good thing he left to find his own dream?

Yeah.

9563
Character Cove / Re: Guts dream?
« on: August 15, 2001, 01:12:13 AM »
Interesting take, but I disagree under the circumstances of which Guts said it, I really think Guts meant it the other way around.  For instance, he brought up what Gaston wanted to do after he left the Hawks, a Taylor I believe, and later Judeau and Guts talk about Corkus, how he used to lead a small group of bandits and might have had a dream of his own.  I  think Guts was looking at the downside to being a Hawk and serving someone elses dream in general, that’s why he had to leave.

-Griffith

9564
Character Cove / Re: Guts dream?
« on: August 14, 2001, 08:05:50 PM »
He didn’t when he left the Hawks, his dream in a way was to have a dream ;D :P to fulfill like Griffith did.  Ranemaka is right in the fact that Griffith’s Dream/friendship speech to Charlotte is what prompted him to eventually leave; Griffith unintentionally motivated him.  But I don’t think Guts’ dream was just to be Griffith’s friend, it just made him look at what he was doing with his life and what Griffith was doing with his.  And don’t forget the Campfire analogy Guts made, about everyone’s little fire, their personal dream, getting absorbed by Griffith’s huge one.

-Griffith

P.S. 186 Whooooooo!!!!

9565
Character Cove / Re: Guts dream?
« on: August 14, 2001, 04:14:28 PM »
At the time, Guts wasn’t really clear on what his dream was.  He explained the concept to Casca, living your life outside the influence of other people as eintrigga put it, or winning something for yourself, it’s basically independence.  Guts didn’t leave the Hawks to pursue a specific dream, but he knew that if he stayed he would never have one.  Guts would have been perfectly happy with the Hawks (as he realized in volume 12) but it would have been a happiness that was given to him, not a happiness he got on his own, not something he won for himself.  The basic concept of the dream is the same for Griffith, Guts or anybody else, the difference is how it is expressed, for example: Griffith wanted his own Kingdom even though he was just a commoner.  That way he could be sure that his life wasn’t just something controlled by the upper-class, the only way he could feel in control of his life and know that he truly exists. He gave himself a purpose more important than anything that anyone else could try to assign him to do. But I don't think he went after his dream out of a selfish need for his own happiness, on the contrary he sacrificed much of himself and his happiness for it, I think he could have been happier with a quiet life (like the dream sequence with Casca before the eclipse), but it would have been a life fashioned for him in a world ruled by nobles, something he was given, allowed to have.  I think that’s the same for Idea and all of humanity, people can be happy with Idea controlling their destiny, but it’s takes away their ability to create something for themselves that reflects who they are, I think Idea makes life easier for humanity, but certainly not better.  It’s ironic, because Griffith seems to have forgotten the meaning of his dream because of his obsession to realize the physical expression of it.  God Hand and Idea are the same as that upper-class Griffith didn’t want his life to be controlled by, he’s ended up doing exactly what he wanted to avoid, so in that sense he truly has betrayed his dream… whoops, weren't we supposed to be talkin’ about Guts? ;D Yes I remember now. Guts didn’t really have a clear dream before the eclipse, but afterward he decided he was going to destroy God Hand and Griffith.  I think eventually Griffith will have to turn against God Hand if he wants to truly realize his dream, of course, all this is just my opinion.

-Griffith

9566
Character Cove / Re: Gaiseric, the Creater Theory
« on: August 05, 2001, 09:28:51 PM »
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Why would the people under Gaiserics empire have the desire to create idea as a reason for their suffering if they already knew Gaiseric's reign was the cause for their 'thorn in the paw'?

That could be said for whatever reason mankind desired to create idea.  Anyway, it’s deeper than that, it’s man wanting to know why things are the way they are, like, why bad things happen to good people and other cliché questions.
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I think Idea is much older than even Gaiseric.

Why?  There isn’t any mention of when Idea was created except that humans came first.
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However, and this is a big however: when we are introduced to Gaiseric in volume 10, he is out conquering the world. It seems as though he is already "reborn" at this point. Scope his armor in it. Also, directly after his 'conquering' he gains an empire, and rules it, forcing the citizens to build an enourmous 'capital', that in the brief glimpse we get of it, looks something very similar to Griffiths 'kingdom' that he desires.

Yeah, but that’s tying one theory to another.  That assumes Gaiseric was ever reborn at all, which we don’t know.  You’ve said before, just because someone is badass doesn’t mean they are an Apostle, or in this case a God Hand reborn.  In this theory Gaiseric got his kingdom on his own.  But your problem with the parallels in they’re (Griffith & Gaiseric’s) actions and the look of the castle gives me a great idea! Forget the “Casualty-Cycle Theory” for a moment and think about this.  Perhaps Idea is simply trying to re-create the situation that brought it into existence in the fist place.  Griffith’s actions and the steps he takes to get his empire don’t need to parallel Gaiseric’s EXACTLY, this is Idea’s attempt to recreate the situation the best it can be.  That’s also why Griffith’s dream castle looks the same as Gaiseric’s castle.  Why is Idea trying to recreate that situation, well, that’s a different theory all together (and I think there are already two or three in there :-/).
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All the stuff Walter said we don’t know yet about God Hand, Idea and Gaiseric.

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goddammit...
i wish i could create theories that dont make me look like an ass...

Don’t worry, I’m sure when we find out the answers to those questions, we’ll all look asses.

-Griffith

P.S. I’m sure there are some major problems with the theory right now, I need to look at it more carefully and give it some fine tuning.  Gimmie a break, I’m going up against theories that are set in stone around here and virtually believed by everybody, including myself. :)  So, not that I need to ask, but if anybody sees something wrong in there, point it out.

9567
Character Cove / Gaiseric, the Creater Theory
« on: August 05, 2001, 06:41:59 PM »
Okay, the theory goes something like this:  Gaiseric’s subjects created Idea out of their misery because of the way he ruled them.  His reign was terrible for the people , and there negative feelings created idea.

As Idea put it: "The humans” “desired causes”  “Reasons for pain”... Reasons for sadness" "Reasons for life" "Reasons for death" "Why were their lives filled with suffering? Why were their deaths absurd?" "They desired a reason for the destiny that kept transcending their knowledge"

I think the type of oppression Gaiseric put his people under would cause such a desire.  At the time Idea was humanity’s savior, but in the end it’s a much worse fate.  This gives Gaiseric/Skull Knight a good reason to want to destroy God Hand, not just for revenge, but because he is responsible for its existence.  It could also be a reason why he’s outside of casualty (and maybe those related to him ;)).

Ahh, enough, lay some feedback on me people.

-Griffith

9568
Character Cove / Re: Griffith / Femto: One in the same?
« on: September 02, 2001, 08:01:41 PM »
Yep, it was Griffith, here’s Cronus’ translation (It’s been a while since anyone has said that ;D):

“Rickert. Nothing has ended at this point. When you know the truth of what happened, if you come to despise me, then so be it.”

The only thing Guts says to Rickert on the subject (besides what happened) is that he won’t allow him to go with him because he can’t hate Griffith.

-Griffith

9569
Character Cove / Re: Griffith / Femto: One in the same?
« on: September 02, 2001, 02:37:03 AM »
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1.His priority was to get Casca pregnant so he may be reborn in the flesh world(he did get a wee bit too long). He would probably kill Guts once finished, which we will nver know.Skully interrupted them.

1. I meant when they met recently, if they did.
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He would probably kill Guts once finished, which we will nver know.Skully interrupted them.

Ah, you agree that Femto would have probably killed Guts.

2. Femto was described as a dream as well. Just a metaphor in both cases I think.

3. I think Griffith might want Rickert to know, but then again, we’re talking about Femto here aren’t we?

4. See two.
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5.He actually went to see Casca. It seems to me he is incredebly connected to Casca, being his mum and all. She has some great role we are yet to discover.

5. He said he came there to see Guts.

Again, why did he talk to Guts as if he was Griffith rather than Femto, why no mention of the events in volume 3 (the last time Femto and Guts saw eachother) for instance?

Why did he seem so surprised that he saved Casca if he already had big plans for her?  It seemed to be something he did on the spur of the moment, especially when he reflected on it in volume 183.

-Griffith

9570
Character Cove / Re: Griffith / Femto: One in the same?
« on: September 02, 2001, 12:15:15 AM »
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What's the matter with you and femto, you always keep saying he's gone, while all he did was turn into a thing that looks and acts a little bit like a guy named griffis that once long ago had a mercenary band called taka no dan. ;)


I have annoying questions! ;D

*All questions are being asked about the reborn “Femto”, NOT GRIFFITH!

1.Why didn’t he kill Guts?

2. Why does he refer to Griffith’s past on several occasions as if he is Griffith?

3. Why does he “care” that Rickert learn the truth?

Excerpt from 183:

Guts:  Only chasing your dream...!! And you say it won't change!!?
“Femto”:  Certainly you knew this. That's the kind of man I am. Only you knew that.

4. Why would “Femto” say this?

5. Why did he go to see Guts in the first place?

-Griffith

9571
Character Cove / Re: Griffith / Femto: One in the same?
« on: August 27, 2001, 05:35:18 PM »
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And: I don't think Griffith wants a peaceful kingdom. I think he wants his kingdom, period. War, peace, the adoration of the people, everything.

When I say “peaceful kingdom” I mean one where the people support Griffith as their leader, he doesn’t rule by brute force.

About this lying business, I think if they were going to lie that they would tell Griffith that they hadn’t been controlling his fate, they basically told him he’s there pawn, that could have pissed him off (it might have, we’ll see), I just think lying about that wouldn’t work in their favor.  I don’t think they lie, they’ve always seemed brutally honest.

As for Void in volume 13…too many possibilities on what it could mean for me to guess, including nothing. Maybe he thought something that happened at the Eclipse was a little suspicious, I see Void as a big speculator. :)

-Griffith

9572
Character Cove / Re: Griffith / Femto: One in the same?
« on: August 27, 2001, 10:22:16 AM »
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I just don't see the need for Guts and his struggle if griffis wishes a safe kingdom without apostoles rule. Maybe i'm a pessimist, but that's how I see it.

But why would Griffith need to earn the trust of the people if he doesn’t intend to rule peacefully, he could just take over and rule by brute force?  But my point is that IF Griffith does want a peaceful Kingdom, then it’s going to be doomed anyway with the Apostles, he hasn’t thought about the consequences.  So whether is intentions are good (like I believe) or evil (like you believe) he may bring in the age of darkness either way.
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What do you think about the Griffis being never born theory, meaning, that he was predestined to become what he is by god hand...?

I agree that Griffith was created by Idea specifically to serve his purpose in life, it seems he was always destined to become Femto.  I think in a way Femto always existed in that it was predetermined he was going to be the fifth God Hand for who knows how long.  But, I don’t think this necessarily means Griffith isn’t a “real man”, because Idea would have to manipulate many bloodlines in the process of creating Griffith, everyone might have been created this way since Idea had to create a world where Griffith would thrive.  Here’s an excerpt from the removed Chapter 83 that you should find very interesting, it supports your theory perfectly:
Griffith : "... Does that mean that you're the one" "that controlled my destiny ?..."

"That you're the one" "that arranged everything so that it would be this way !?"
Idea : "Dokyu..."

"It was established that you would be here since a distant past"

"By influencing the lower levels of human consciousness "and merging blood with blood" "I created the lineage that would give birth to the man you are"

"By manipulating History" "I paved the way for the times you would be born in" "and created an appropriate context for you"

"All the encounters you made so far" "were a part of the destiny that led you here as well"

So, it seems Idea manipulates everything through God Hand (at least according to chapter 83).

-Griffith

9573
Character Cove / Re: Griffith / Femto: One in the same?
« on: August 27, 2001, 02:56:01 AM »
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Oh my, you are a frail soul indeeed. My arrogant presumtions eh?
Well I did catch up, and I saw griffis save cascka from the rocks zodd splashed all over the place.

And don't get too cocky man, have you ever actually THOUGHT about other people posts. I don't write stuff to piss you off, I hope to get a feedback so I may compare to my opinion. You are so hasty to reply with a completely negative comment. Are you Miura? If so, may I have an autogram please? :D

Even so, my point stands, you state your idea’s and opinions as if they are facts that us dolts are just unaware of, then you condescendingly comment on other peoples theories and ideas with little or no proof to dispute them.  I’m sorry if I was curt but I believed what I said when I said it, I doubt any of my theories (or anyone else’s for that matter) will come true and you state yours like there’s no other possibility, it’s very annoying to some, me included.
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Why do you think he did it?
Casca has a very important role since she is his mother.

Why is she important if he’s just a cold inhuman monster?  You also didn’t give me a reason why Griffith is playing the hero if he is going to be evil anyway?
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And about that name speculation, Miura did say he wanted to name his character as katze, the german for cat. It's in his art book, ok? You just bugged it off with a  "bad translation" comemnt. Thanx a lot. I checked it and it's no bad translation.

That wasn't me, it was Olivier I believe, so take it up with him.  

Look, I’m sorry if my comment offended you but I felt I was just in saying it, you do seem very arrogant and condescending with some of your comments.  All the things you said about me, I feel could be said about you, so if you really find those qualities so detestable than you should understand why I said what I said and why I don’t regret it.

-Griffith

P.S. Peace.

9574
Character Cove / Re: Griffith / Femto: One in the same?
« on: August 27, 2001, 01:59:10 AM »
Why hasn’t he already laid the place to waste then?  Why is he going to the trouble of playing Midland’s hero if Griffith really hates everything and wants kill it all, or oppress the hell out of it? :-/

By the way, Griffith saved Casca’s life in chapter 182 (to Guts utter shock and surprise), in case you don't know. I hope I didn’t spoil anything for you but I’m getting rather tired of your arrogant presumption when it comes to what Griffith is or isn't, there is no absolutely correct answer at this point.

-Griffith

9575
Character Cove / Re: Griffith / Femto: One in the same?
« on: August 27, 2001, 01:19:48 AM »
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I think that Griffith does not see building an army and taking a kingdom the old fashioned way as a charade.

That’s exactly it, he should see it that way considering the circumstances.  Griffith needs no army, Apostle or otherwise to defeat the Kushan and win the hearts of the people of Midland, the man is already a religious icon, their divine savior, their messiah.  He would be fulfilling the Falcon of Light prophesy to the letter if he single-handedly saved Midland from destruction, any odd powers he was observed using (like turning into a Griffin or something) would simply legitimize his status as a deity.  I think he wants try and gain his dream on his own terms, win it for himself like it should be, but that’s impossible under these conditions no matter how he goes about it because he’s simply serving God Hand’s purpose.  I really think he’s fooling himself.
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I do not think that Griffith has changed that much, more jaded and cynic about his own human frailties of course, but I still think that his dream of the castle means more than just being on top, being a tyrant.  So the people matters to him, he might be prepared to sacrifice them, but he was always ready to sacrifice himself as well.

I personally don’t think Griffith has changed much either, but his situation certainly has, and there’s the problem; his refusal to acknowledge that fact.  If he truly wants a peaceful and good kingdom, then the people of Midland are the least of his worries. I also want to bring something up now that’s been bothering me since Locus showed up and hasn’t really been discussed yet. How loyal are these Apostles to Griffith? Why do the Apostles follow him?  Why are they helping him gain a position of unlimited power?  Because when Griffith is in power, they’re in power too, literally ruling the world, and we all know how Apostles rule.  So, sure, they bow to him now, but what if Griffith and his new “followers” don’t quite see eye to eye down the road, what if he tries to deny them the type of power that they so desire?  How loyal will they be to him then, is his word law as the God Hand reborn, will they obey his commands no matter how they feel about it?  I think not, so the real question is, no matter what his intention may be, what kind of Kingdom is Griffith building if it’s a kingdom built on the sweat of Apostles; one’s that will likely expect a large gratuity in return for their services?

I do believe that Griffith wants a peaceful kingdom, and I believe that the Apostles will humor him to a point, but once it becomes clear that Griffith’s kingdom is not theirs, I bet you could count the seconds until they turn against him (excluding Zodd).  Like I’ve said, Griffith is so obsessed with the physical expression of his dream, he’s forgotten what it means, he’s serving God Hand’s dream and the dreams of its disciples, whether he realizes it or not…

…and I’m afraid that when he does, it will already be to late.

-Griffith

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