2008 Presidential Primaries

[Uriel]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Hilary Clinton.com.... "WHOOOOOOOOOO!!! YEYAH!"

Listening to this speech more, I've got to give credit to the writers. A lot of patriotic hogwash, but it worked.

Anyways anyone hear McCain on Meet the Press? I thought he came off pretty good. I don't agree with his foreign policy points but his economic ones seemed sound (just on the program, haven't don't much digging otherwise). Anyways I'm glad he won over Romney.

Aye, I watched it. I prefer him over Romney, but it's mostly because Romney reminds me of Alex Shrub from GTA:VC, strangely enough:

"I'll remind people that I have a great haircut, and under my stewardship Vice City has had, on average, 15% better weather than before,while crime rates only go up if you don't turn the graph upside down. Turn it upside down, and they have halved- HALVED under me, Alex Shrub. Vote Shrub for president and you'll have a friendly face in the White House. A man you can trust. A local man who likes golf, and laughing, and photo opportunities at your store or place of business. Just send me a letter. I'll send you an automated, photocopied response. We call it "democracy" and that's where the money goes."

 

[CnC]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Aye, I watched it. I prefer him over Romney, but it's mostly because Romney reminds me of Alex Shrub from GTA:VC, strangely enough:

lol. Well, Romney(and Ron Paul) didn't fare as well on the program. He just came off as consistently inconsistent. McCain's approach to that very subject was handled better, imo.

 

[Uriel]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Aye, and his quip about Romney being a real candidate of change helped too.

It does seem that whenever Scru, uh, Romney opens his mouth, something slightly sceptical comes out and gets more attention that his campaign. Typical pundit fodder, sad.

 

[Griffith]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Sounds like Rommy all right, I haven't seen McCain on press yet though. I told my dad he should vote McCain no matter what because of his age... he's more likely to approve those experimental life extending drugs than those younger candidates. =)

I'm not quite taking him seriously yet though, he beat Bush in New Hamshire by 19 points in 2000 but then got killed in South Carolina and it ended him. If he can get Michigan from Romney, that'd be something, Huckabee will be in contention there too as well as in SC big time. Also interesting is how SC splits for the Dems, Edwards was born there won it last time, it'll be interesting to see how that splits up the vote among the big three.

 

[Sanguinius]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Well, I did list a few reasons why I liked him, as a candidate or otherwise. That's more than you've said here, to be fair.

It is but then all I did was ask one thing “why do you like him”, that’s the only thing I’ve asked I haven’t said anything about any candidate in this thread as I already said I liked Ron Paul in a separate thread. However if you really want to know what I think, out of the major candidates in both parties I think Obama would be better than Hillary on the Democrat side (2 horse race in that party) and McCain better than the other major Republican Candidates. Saying that however I’m pretty sure that Hillary will win the Democrat nomination, though the Republican one is a bit harder to call I think Rudy will win that one.

My mistake, foolish of me to assume it was addressed to me since it directly followed an entire quote of my previous post.

When I said the question wasn't directed at you GnM I meant that it was addressed to everyone who said they liked Obama. So yes, it was for you to answer but not just specifically you, so I wasn't baiting you or anything.

I said I liked three, and I don't even have it that narrowed down. Anyway, I trying to subtly hint that you might want to cool it a bit, you're not a meddling dickhead for asking, but the fact that you're still pressing and becoming even more acerbic... yeah, a little dickheadish to say the least, sorry.

Indeed you did say you liked three but you put Obama as your preferred candidate and really all I asked was why you liked him best. Is that really such an outrageous question?

I feel like you're trying to use me to be honest. =)

Don’t worry, you’re a big boy you can take it

You didn't, I was just saying I'd welcome it, so you're certainly having some kind of comprehension blackout, and taking things way too personally. This is the road I didn't want to go down in this thread, I'm hoping it'll still recover (again: hint hint).

I understood what you were saying, although be honest, were you not at least hinting that I was anti-Obama by referring to me and anti-Obama comments in the same bit of your post? Also just as with your link earlier, my posts are not just for you and I got your “hint” several posts ago. What I’d like though, is for people to stop and think and ask why they support or like who they like whoever that is. Even if it’s only a small preference why that small preference? If anyone cannot sit and think to themselves and give a clear well defined answer then I think they need to think some more. They should make sure they’re not just being subtlety influenced by a group of friends or a media darling or a persuasive speaker and little more. Before you think I am referring to you this is a general belief of mine that I apply to myself and everything I think about, so it’s not a belittling comment against you or anything GnM.

Uhhh... okay, glad you liked it. I did give a rational explanation for liking him, he's intelligent, eloquent, and I like his stance on the issues and his overall approach.

Okay that’s fair enough, all I really wanted to know was what particular issues and what about his approach appealed to you and other Obama supporters/likers. Personally, out of the issues he seems somewhat clear on, his policies don’t seem that radically different to other Democrats, but maybe I’m missing something.

That's just a casual estimate, I'm not a big Obama stumper, so I'm not interested nor prepared in listing or debating his policies point by point anymore than the others. Get it?

I wasn’t even asking for that you said you liked him I said what’s his appeal, if his appeal is just that he’s a charismatic outsider who is unencumbered by the elite of the Democrat party and will bring some fresh thinking I won’t have minded that. However, you kept implying that you had some other reasons for liking him but that you won’t belittle yourself by revealing them to me of all people on the lowly medium of an internet forum.

Anyway, if you don't think those other things are important too though, fine, it didn't require a temper tantrum, and I think you can go away now while us politically unenlightened boobs watch:

Despite what you keep saying I’m really not picking a fight, nor am I taking a temper tantrum. If I give a sarcastic or smarmy response it’s reciprocal not an initiating remark. Also, I at least find it a little amusing when there’s such evasiveness and some hostility to what seem to me at least as very simple questions.

His wife is hotter than Ron Paul's. And he didn't name his son "Rand" in honor of Ayn Rand.

Well I don’t know much about Ron Paul’s family nor about Ayn Rand, and the wife comment is certainly neither hostile nor ‘Bullshit’ as well shown by GnM link. However from what little I do know about Ayn Rand why would you hate Ron Paul if he does like her? Certainly, this is not a childish comment designed simply to annoy me and try and provoke a temper tantrum because I have previously stated my support for Ron Paul.


P.S. I'm done GnM, take it as you 'won'.

P.P.S. Meant to say thanks for teaching me a new word, not often I learn a new word in the english language. (acerbic)

 

[CnC]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

I'm not quite taking him seriously yet though, he beat Bush in New Hamshire by 19 points in 2000 but then got killed in South Carolina and it ended him. If he can get Michigan from Romney, that'd be something, Huckabee will be in contention there too as well as in SC big time. Also interesting is how SC splits for the Dems, Edwards was born there won it last time, it'll be interesting to see how that splits up the vote among the big three.

Yea SC is going to very interesting to watch for both sides. McCain is probably gunning for that state, this time, assuming he can take Michigan away from Romney. Pretty tough fight ahead for him.

 

[Griffith]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

However if you really want to know what I think, out of the major candidates in both parties I think Obama would be better than Hillary on the Democrat side (2 horse race in that party) and McCain better than the other major Republican Candidates. Saying that however I’m pretty sure that Hillary will win the Democrat nomination, though the Republican one is a bit harder to call I think Rudy will win that one.

Well, we basically agree, though I guess I think Obama has a better chance than you, I think it's a real dog fight between him and Hillary, too close call, but Hillary has the advantage of the base sadly. Right now Rudy's doing pretty awful, but these aren't his states, if he has the money to survive Januray, he could come back, but I hope not, so far he's had nothing to say and I don't know anyone taking him seriously right now, but it's early.

Indeed you did say you liked three but you put Obama as your preferred candidate and really all I asked was why you liked him best. Is that really such an outrageous question?

No, but I didn't like the way you phrased it, and you seemed dissatisfied with my response, which was all I had.

I understood what you were saying, although be honest, were you not at least hinting that I was anti-Obama by referring to me and anti-Obama comments in the same bit of your post?

It was honestly a coincidence and misunderstanding, I was actually just trying to distance myself from him there and invite any real dirt on him and his record if you or anyone has some. I've only heard all the funny BS stuff, like he's a secret terrorist double agent. You know, the kind of stuff Rudy will run in his ads if they get the nomination. =)

Also just as with your link earlier, my posts are not just for you and I got your “hint” several posts ago. What I’d like though, is for people to stop and think and ask why they support or like who they like whoever that is. Even if it’s only a small preference why that small preference? If anyone cannot sit and think to themselves and give a clear well defined answer then I think they need to think some more. They should make sure they’re not just being subtlety influenced by a group of friends or a media darling or a persuasive speaker and little more. Before you think I am referring to you this is a general belief of mine that I apply to myself and everything I think about, so it’s not a belittling comment against you or anything GnM.

Yes, I knew that, and that bugged me too, intentional or not, it was patronizing to me. That's just me, but it's how I felt, and/or I just wasn't in the mood for that kind of talk.

Okay that’s fair enough, all I really wanted to know was what particular issues and what about his approach appealed to you and other Obama supporters/likers. Personally, out of the issues he seems somewhat clear on, his policies don’t seem that radically different to other Democrats, but maybe I’m missing something.

No, I don't think his policies are too radically different either, it's more what you say just below...

I wasn’t even asking for that you said you liked him I said what’s his appeal, if his appeal is just that he’s a charismatic outsider who is unencumbered by the elite of the Democrat party and will bring some fresh thinking I won’t have minded that.

Well, that's certainly better put than my statement, but I felt I expressed that, however more vaguely.

However, you kept implying that you had some other reasons for liking him but that you won’t belittle yourself by revealing them to me of all people on the lowly medium of an internet forum.

Well, I guess we both felt patronized, anyway, it was nothing like that on my part either. It was quite the opposite, I just didn't have a lot to say unless you want to hear about his childhood or something. =)

Despite what you keep saying I’m really not picking a fight, nor am I taking a temper tantrum. If I give a sarcastic or smarmy response it’s reciprocal not an initiating remark. Also, I at least find it a little amusing when there’s such evasiveness and some hostility to what seem to me at least as very simple questions.

Again, it was the phrasing and tone of the original question that rubbed me the wrong way, not the question in itself.

Yea SC is going to very interesting to watch for both sides. McCain is probably gunning for that state, this time, assuming he can take Michigan away from Romney. Pretty tough fight ahead for him.

I'll be super impressed if he can take Michigan since Romney's so connected there, then again, Romney's the first Mass. Governor to lose New Hampshire...

 

[Aazealh]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Well I don’t know much about Ron Paul’s family nor about Ayn Rand, and the wife comment is certainly neither hostile nor ‘Bullshit’ as well shown by GnM link.

Rest assured, I'm not surprised to learn of your ignorance on this issue. And indeed, my comment on the hotness of his wife was an appropriate illustration of the Onion's point, although it was in no way hostile.

However from what little I do know about Ayn Rand why would you hate Ron Paul if he does like her?

Indeed, why would one hate Ron Paul because of it? In fact, why would anyone hate Ron Paul for any reason at all? Certainly, taking political matters (especially when they're foreign) that seriously would be worrying. It's fortunate that people are all just having a light discussion and aren't trying to force others into fruitless arguments.

Certainly, this is not a childish comment designed simply to annoy me and try and provoke a temper tantrum because I have previously stated my support for Ron Paul.

I believe it is merely teasing you gently, maybe a sign that you should relax a little. And I don't think any intervention on my part is necessary in order for you to throw a temper tantrum, however I will admit that on the issue of being childish, you have a lot more experience than I do.

P.P.S. Meant to say thanks for teaching me a new word, not often I learn a new word in the english language. (acerbic)

Ah, yes, a beautiful word indeed. A part of the English language's French heritage.

 

[Sanguinius]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Rest assured, I'm not surprised to learn of your ignorance on this issue. And indeed, my comment on the hotness of his wife was an appropriate illustration of the Onion's point, although it was in no way hostile.

Indeed, why would one hate Ron Paul because of it? In fact, why would anyone hate Ron Paul for any reason at all? Certainly, taking political matters (especially when they're foreign) that seriously would be worrying. It's fortunate that people are all just having a light discussion and aren't trying to force others into fruitless arguments.

Yes you're right, I should both take it less seriously and learn the names of everyone of Ron Paul's family and the source of the names he gave them. I'll also be sure not to get into any fruitless debates by giving circular and attempted provocative answers that lead nowhere.

I believe it is merely teasing you gently, maybe a sign that you should relax a little. And I don't think any intervention on my part is necessary in order for you to throw a temper tantrum, however I will admit that on the issue of being childish, you have a lot more experience than I do.

Oh, you big tease you

Ah, yes, a beautiful word indeed. A part of the English language's French heritage.

Ah, of course, the French could never have enough words that express this meaning

 

[Aazealh]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Yes you're right, I should both take it less seriously and learn the names of everyone of Ron Paul's family and the source of the names he gave them. I'll also be sure not to get into any fruitless debates by giving circular and attempted provocative answers that lead nowhere.

Yeah, I'm right. As you can see, being sarcastic won't save you here.

Ah, of course, the French could never have enough words that express this meaning

See what I was telling you about puerility? And actually, funnily enough there are more synonyms for this word in English than in French. Come on man, don't be so astringent, have a laugh with us.

Anyway, I wouldn't want to bog the thread down with off topic talk, so please go ahead with reports on the primaries, guys.

 

[smoke]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

I liked Ron Paul for a long time (for good reasons, really!) but now that it's pretty much affirmed he has no chance, I think I like Obama the most.

He's not really my kind of guy for economic policy, but I really love his whole anti-corruption, anti-lobbyist positions. I think they're pretty genuine too, considering how new he is to Washington.

 

[Vampire_Hunter_Bob]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Not to derail the thread but there was some talk on speed boats and actually infact they can do serious damage proved true in the 2002 naval war games.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002 Lets just say he Riped them up.

Also those worried about a potentional US Iran stand off: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis

That being said I'm voting for Obama when ever the Maryland primaries take place.

 

[Escalus]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

I would cast my vote for Ron Paul. But he's not an option, like Thompson. Oh wait, Thompson IS an option in this vote. Damn, I wish I could vote for the guy I want to, esp. since my I was asked for my opinion. Hmmm. Reminds me of neckbeard over on the youtube thread. Well, against the odds he beat out that former NY mayor in Iowa (10%, yo) and is the ONLY candidate who voted against the war. He has crazy ape-shit ideas like demolishing the CIA and IRS, which I love. Moreoever, he's the only candidate who would pull out of Iraq the day of his inauguration.

Free Additional 10 Cent Word: Pusillanimous

Big Up!

 

[Walter]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

I He has crazy ape-shit ideas like demolishing the CIA and IRS, which I love. Moreoever, he's the only candidate who would pull out of Iraq the day of his inauguration.

I can second that these sound like crazy, ape shit ideas.

(Obama)'s not really my kind of guy for economic policy, but I really love his whole anti-corruption, anti-lobbyist positions. I think they're pretty genuine too, considering how new he is to Washington.

Yeah I think that's why he's so popular with the young crowd - he doesn't appear to be embittered and a tool of the system like many other politicians.

 

[Griffith]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Yeah, I totally want the guy who's going to dismantle the Government and act on pure principle despite reality and consequences. Radical.

Anyway, I'm dubious of any anti-corruption sell with all the candidates, I don't even consider that as being real with Obama or anybody, and as far as I know, none of them are running on pro-corruption. Same with the whole Washington outsider sell (hey, Bush was one of those too), because that's all it is, bullshit up and down. Washington is Mecca to Politicians, if they wanted to be Washington outsiders, they wouldn't be running for positions in Washington. It's especially absurd for Senators to claim this.

In any case, I don't get why it's a good thing. Would you want an American Bar Association outsider representing you in court? I'd want the person at the center of Washington to actually know how the place is supposed to work, works, and to work the system effectively, I want a Washington insider, and frankly, that's what all these people with a snowball's chance really are, especially the ones claiming not to be.

Well, that's my little rant, and you can trust me, I'm an SK.net outsider.

 

[smoke]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Yeah, I totally want the guy who's going to dismantle the Government and act on pure principle despite reality and consequences. Radical.

Radical, indeed.

I know there's a lot of stupid people on the internet making all kinds of overdramatic Ron Paul Youtube videos and stuff, and that he's become an almost Chuck Norrisian internet meme. I can understand legitimate criticisms of his political ideas, but putting a button like "radical" at the end of the statement is just kind of lame. I'm not a "Ron Paul RevoLutionist" or anything. I'm not trying to be a 'radical'. I just think that a lot of government institutions need to be scaled down and that we need to get out of Iraq. Ron Paul seems the most genuine to me about supporting these ideas.

Anyway, I'm dubious of any anti-corruption sell with all the candidates, I don't even consider that as being real with Obama or anybody, and as far as I know, none of them are running on pro-corruption. Same with the whole Washington outsider sell (hey, Bush was one of those too), because that's all it is, bullshit up and down. Washington is Mecca to Politicians, if they wanted to be Washington outsiders, they wouldn't be running for positions in Washington. It's especially absurd for Senators to claim this.

In any case, I don't get why it's a good thing. Would you want an American Bar Association outsider representing you in court? I'd want the person at the center of Washington to actually know how the place is supposed to work, works, and to work the system effectively, I want a Washington insider, and frankly, that's what all these people with a snowball's chance really are, especially the ones claiming not to be.

Well, that's my little rant, and you can trust me, I'm an SK.net outsider.

Geez, I don't understand where these cynical responses are coming from. Is there a need for a snide one-liner at the end of every point?

As far as Obama being an outsider to Washington, the simple fact that he's only been a United States Senator for three years and doesn't have any relatives in high political seats speak volumes.

The presidential pool is far from perfect. Paul and Obama just seem to have a few of the better ideas to me. They would both probably be at least somewhat disapointing as presidents. They're just the best offered up right now, in my eyes.

I just wish there were a few politicians who weren't rich white hypocrites.

 

[Escalus]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Yeah, I totally want the guy who's going to dismantle the Government and act on pure principle despite reality and consequences. Radical.

Awesome, me too! Now that you mention it, I can't help but reflect on how gosh-darned helpful the CIA has been since it was created in '47!!! I mean, it has really protected our self interests abroad...and at home! Do away with the CIA??? Dismantle the government???

Oh, the opportunity cost of no WASP hands raping and pillaging the world!! Not to mention their less educated progeny frolicking in the international gritty kitty litter!!! Give Castro a cigar!!! Osama bin Laden: Stinger Missile Training! OPERATION CONDOR, come on down! Enduring Freedom, we'll endure!

We've worked our white asses off to earn the title of World Enemy #1, Griff. We've worked hard at it, for generations now. Addition by subtraction. No dismantling, just chopping off the unnecessary whitey flex fat.

 

[smoke]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Okay, while I can't say I agree with the tone of the above poster, I do agree with what I think the general message is. Our international policy has been way too aggressive. We intervene where no intervention is necessary. Ron Paul is against that. Another point for him.

 

[Vampire_Hunter_Bob]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Okay, while I can't say I agree with the tone of the above poster, I do agree with what I think the general message is. Our international policy has been way too aggressive. We intervene where no intervention is necessary. Ron Paul is against that. Another point for him.

I really doubt that, seeing how there hasn't been a president yet that hasn't thought the US needed to intervene somewhere.

Edit: so far it's a tie between Obama and I'm not a US citizen, damn you!

 

[Forest Wraith]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Okay, while I can't say I agree with the tone of the above poster, I do agree with what I think the general message is. Our international policy has been way too aggressive. We intervene where no intervention is necessary. Ron Paul is against that. Another point for him.

He's also stated that he doesn't believe in Evolution. No one I'd vote for, too bad since reigning in the CIA and similar organization would be a good thing if approached in the right manner.
Otherwise, it seems as though distrust is the legacy of my generation. I prefer Obama but I still can't find it in me to trust him to actually have a positive affect on things. Then again, he sure does speak good.

 

[smoke]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

He's also stated that he doesn't believe in Evolution.

Well, I never said he was perfect. I'm not going to base my opinion of him on his personal, nonpolitical opinions.

Obama ... Then again, he sure does speak good.

Disagree. I think his speeches are very clean and concise, but damn, he could get into it a bit more. I wanna see some hand motions.

Heil Obama.

 

[Walter]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Well, I never said he was perfect. I'm not going to base my opinion of him on his personal, nonpolitical opinions.

Yeah, but this raises the question of why you'd pick a candidate who believes in something you yourself (speaking of the GENERAL you here) believe as hokey as creationism. To quote Scott Adams:
"Arguably, sorting truth from nonsense is the biggest part of being president. Every big question has multiple possible solutions. The president’s job is to pick the right one. You wouldn’t vote for a candidate who believes in Ouija boards or horoscopes, because such beliefs would be a reliable indication of simple-mindedness."

Disagree. I think his speeches are very clean and concise, but damn, he could get into it a bit more. I wanna see some hand motions.

I dunno man, he's pretty expressive and speaks with real (at least practiced enough to seem real) conviction. Now, you want to see a boring, non-active speaker in action, you should check out Fred Thompson. I saw him speak at a conference held locally (his hometown of Lawrenceburg, Tenn. I was covering it). He almost put a crowd of more than 10,000 to sleep. Now THAT's the power of oratory!

 

[Griffith]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

Man, I don't know what you guys are on about, but you're all narcissists; judging by the responses here and PMs I got, about 5 different people took my rant on a general subject personally. Get over it, I wasn't attacking anybody (except maybe some of Ron Paul's libertarian views versus their application, but even that was just one line). Hell, radical wasn't even supposed to be a double entendre, I was originally going to say, "Tubular." =)

Also, the "snide" one liners are just that, one liners, they're supposed add levity and show I'm not frothing at the mouth with conviction over these things. Again, just dubious of the whole "good" versus "evil" thing in these elections, I'm sure I'm either being naive or cynical depending on who I'm pissing off. Anyway, I can't go on, white guilt is really killing me inside, hopefully with the right policy shifts, other countries will be intervining here one day instead of the other way around. (<-this is a troll, he says that this is a good natured dig)

To quote Scott Adams:
"Arguably, sorting truth from nonsense is the biggest part of being president. Every big question has multiple possible solutions. The president’s job is to pick the right one. You wouldn’t vote for a candidate who believes in Ouija boards or horoscopes, because such beliefs would be a reliable indication of simple-mindedness."

Finally, a voice of reason. I think some people would vote for Stalin if he presented them with the right technical specs for the perfect state according to them. Well, they're probably Communists anyway. *ZING*

Now, you want to see a boring, non-active speaker in action, you should check out Fred Thompson. I saw him speak at a conference held locally (his hometown of Lawrenceburg, Tenn. I was covering it). He almost put a crowd of more than 10,000 to sleep. Now THAT's the power of oratory!

Wow, you saw Drop Dead Fred live and in person? I can't even watch his Law & Order episodes anymore, I wish McCoy was running instead.

 

[Sanguinius]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

I liked Ron Paul for a long time (for good reasons, really!) but now that it's pretty much affirmed he has no chance, I think I like Obama the most.

You really thought Ron Paul had a chance of winning? I liked Ron Paul as I have previously stated but it always seemed pretty obvious that he would not win the nomination of a single state, let alone the actual Republican nomination.

What saddens me is that after my massive spiel in the Ron Paul thread, people here are giving totally inaccurate views as to what policies Ron Paul supports

I really doubt that, seeing how there hasn't been a president yet that hasn't thought the US needed to intervene somewhere.

Edit: so far it's a tie between Obama and I'm not a US citizen, damn you!

One thing I did wonder about that poll, why is it, I'm not a US citizen "damn you" in the options? Am I meant to be damning the fact that I'm not a US citizen? because I don't no offence to all you Yanks

 

[CnC]

Re: 2008 Presidential Election

I was originally going to say, "Tubular." =)

Your brash oversimplification of the issues is saddening. None of the candidates are cylindrical in nature nor do any of their policies include the funneling of surfboards.

I suggest you do your research and get back to us.

can't even watch his Law & Order episodes anymore,

He sucked in that show anyway. I want McCoys old boss (the guy dating back to season 1). Now THAT's a fictional character I can get behind!