Movies to look forward to

[Griffith]

http://chud.com/articles/articles/21969/1/PROJECT-880-THE-AVATAR-THAT-ALMOST-WAS/Page1.html

An interesting article summarizing the scriptment of James Cameron's Project 880, the story that would eventually become, or be reduced to, Avatar. From what the article describes, Project 880 was much more complex and interesting than the streamlined final product, and explained a lot of things that are left vague in the movie, or just didn't make a lot of sense (it's not as back and white). For those that have seen it, if Avatar's story seemed simple and dumbed-down, it's probably because it's in fact a simple and dumb-dumbed version of all that was going on in the original scriptment (which is much more Cameron-like, it explains a lot about why the movie is like it is, literally and figuratively). It's drastically different in a lot of ways, and I wish we had gotten this movie, but as the article alludes to, it probably wouldn't have been possible to make a viable movie out of this script AND maintain the visual experience of Avatar as it is, it just would've been too long and too costly. Probably the right choice since, while that story was certainly better, it'd wouldn't have set the movie apart and made it special like the visual experience Avatar delivered. Anyway, it's a big article covering a lot of details (the first half of the summary covering Earth, the trip to Pandora, and the environment and additional wildlife there is most interesting), but if Avatar's plot left you wanting, it's worth a read.

 

[Vampire_Hunter_Bob]

I like that movie better.

 

[Johnstantine]

i do, too. but i can see why they went with this one.

that scriptment had a really dark tone to it and probably wouldn't have appealed to as many people.

 

[Griffith]

Yeah, I understand why they streamlined it like they did. The scriptment is much more like what I imagined from Cameron when I first heard about Avatar, but it probably works better as an addendum to the movie than it would have had they actually tried it. Juggling that much more material while maintaining the same level of visual excellence would've just been too ambitious and would have probably been a mess; the movie is already too long, if anything, one might have simplified it even more at that point. Still, it would have been nice if they could have kept some more subtle nuances from that treatment.

 

[Death May Die]

Not to go on a stretch here, but I would like to see some of these elements used if a sequel is made. It would help expand the world, and experience of Pandoria. If you ask me, I could easily see a good movie made with the remaining material if applied right. I would like to see a follow up down the line, but some things are good enough with just one. Here is to some wishful thinking that will get me no where. Cheers.

 

[Dar_Klink]

Toy Story 3
How do you guys think this will be? I have good expectations so far personally. I loved the first two.

 

[Rhombaad]

Toy Story 3
How do you guys think this will be? I have good expectations so far personally. I loved the first two.

I think it will be just as entertaining as the first two, both of which I loved. I'll definitely be heading to my local IMAX theater to see it in 3-D when it comes out.

 

[Griffith]

Great, now I have to see it so I know what becomes of the toys!

 

[ori]

Not to go on a stretch here, but I would like to see some of these elements used if a sequel is made. It would help expand the world, and experience of Pandoria. If you ask me, I could easily see a good movie made with the remaining material if applied right. I would like to see a follow up down the line, but some things are good enough with just one. Here is to some wishful thinking that will get me no where. Cheers.

He's already discussed how he plans on having more than one movie...especially the way it ended and the money it's making you should reasonably deduce that a sequel(s) will be made.

 

[Oburi]

Toy Story 3
How do you guys think this will be? I have good expectations so far personally. I loved the first two.

I think it may be good. I liked the first two as well. Too bad they won't have all the same voice actors though.

 

[NightCrawler]

i do, too. but i can see why they went with this one.

that scriptment had a really dark tone to it and probably wouldn't have appealed to as many people.

Wasn't that BS argument thrown out of the window after The Dark Knight's sucess?

 

[Walter]

Wasn't that BS argument thrown out of the window after The Dark Knight's sucess?

I dunno... I think Avatar was carefully crafted so that it could directly market to kids and adults.

 

[NightCrawler]

Toy Story 3
How do you guys think this will be? I have good expectations so far personally. I loved the first two.

Every western animated movie sucks. They're as good as the next Harry Potter or Transformers sequel. Last one i enjoyed was The Lion King, and that was because i was kid (and even back then, there were few animated movies). Why do crap like that receives awards? Oh, and fuck Pixar too. Animated movies only have success because kids drag their parents to the cinema to watch them several times. Wanna make a quick buck, make an animated movie. Lame predictable stories, shiny colors and thats it. Next: toys, karaoke dvds for kids and shit like that. Slap your kid and make him watch the original Willy Wonka (specially the boat sequence, on repeat).
Adults discussing animated movies to look forward too? Only for nostalgia factor, unless we're talking about good ones like Spirited Away, Millennium Actress or Persepolis. Ones that actually transcend animation into good storytelling.

 

[Walter]

Fuck Pixar...? Really? Judging from the emoticon usage, I'll assume you were just trolling. I don't feel I even need to defend Pixar. Its reputation speaks for itself.

 

[Rhombaad]

Fuck Pixar...? Really? Judging from the emoticon usage, I'll assume you were just trolling. I don't feel I even need to defend Pixar. Its reputation speaks for itself.

Agreed. Pixar has produced not only some of the best animated movies in the last decade, but some of the best movies period.

 

[Johnstantine]

Wasn't that BS argument thrown out of the window after The Dark Knight's sucess?

Did you even read what Project 880 had to offer?

Dark Knight is no where near as dark(pun heavily intended).

 

[Griffith]

Wasn't that BS argument thrown out of the window after The Dark Knight's sucess?

It's called Batman. It's quite popular.

Every western animated movie sucks. They're as good as the next Harry Potter or Transformers sequel. Last one i enjoyed was The Lion King, and that was because i was kid (and even back then, there were few animated movies). Why do crap like that receives awards? Oh, and fuck Pixar too. Animated movies only have success because kids drag their parents to the cinema to watch them several times. Wanna make a quick buck, make an animated movie. Lame predictable stories, shiny colors and thats it. Next: toys, karaoke dvds for kids and shit like that. Slap your kid and make him watch the original Willy Wonka (specially the boat sequence, on repeat).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw0zZttfUaw#t=1m44s

Adults discussing animated movies to look forward too? Only for nostalgia factor, unless we're talking about good ones like Spirited Away, Millennium Actress or Persepolis. Ones that actually transcend animation into good storytelling.

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/adults_go_wild_over_latest_in

I understand what you're saying, these movies get held to a lower standard, like children's books, many are vastly overrated, and I generally don't look forward to them or watch them unless the opportunity readily presents itself. I've been making that argument in reverse about those vehemently attacking Avatar for its average plot, where if it were made by Disney or Pixar, many of those same people would be fellating it to death. But I digress, in this instance you're waving your flamethrower so generally I'm going to respond with an ad hominem generalization of my own, which is that it sounds like you're trying so hard at being a film snob you've gone 360 degrees and sound like a bore (I don't even have to intimate that you probably like Willy Wonka predictably for the boat scene, because you admit as much =). Everyone is guilty of this from time to time, myself as much anyone, which is ironically a rather narrow-minded and limited way to appreciate movies or art in general. This is particularly true of animation, which at it's best can transcend typical storytelling by taking full advantage of the visual medium like no other form can. That's a good thing when it comes to cinema, one could argue a better use of it's strengths, because as far as complex characterization and plotting at the highest level goes, anybody that's read a book knows even the best of movies are held to different standards, and rightfully so. So, don't confuse one or a few elements of storytelling for all that storytelling is or how it can and should be done. Even within the medium of film, not all movies have to take the same path to transcendent greatness, or to simply entertain, as the case may be.

Or, I could just point out it's cartoons, and in most cases they are for kids, so stop being so pretentious about it because it's even more ridiculous than simply enjoying them for what they are. =)

 

[Vampire_Hunter_Bob]

A friend of mine bought me a ticket and made me guess what movie I was going to see. It was AVATAR 3D!

Anyways having seen both movies in 2D and 3D, now, I have to say it doesn't really effect my moving going experience too much. Except I did spend the majority of the movie thinking how I should have seen Coraline in 3D when it was available. All of the parts about feeling like you're in Pandora was experienced during my first viewing so the 3D didn't really add too much too that.

 

[Xem]

Went to see Sherlock Holmes last night. It didn't really feel like a Sherlock Holmes movie to me for a lot of it, which was weird, but I still found it enjoyable.

It's pretty much exactly what you'd expect from a Guy Ritchie adaptation. I credit most it's success to Downey and Law. Seeing Holmes as this very unhygienic, goofy detective was very well pulled off and seeing Watson as something other than a clumsy fool was also done very well.

 

[Dar_Klink]

Went to see Sherlock Holmes last night. It didn't really feel like a Sherlock Holmes movie to me for a lot of it, which was weird, but I still found it enjoyable.

It's pretty much exactly what you'd expect from a Guy Ritchie adaptation. I credit most it's success to Downey and Law. Seeing Holmes as this very unhygienic, goofy detective was very well pulled off and seeing Watson as something other than a clumsy fool was also done very well.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I'm glad that people seem to think it pulled off how eccentric Holmes is pretty well. As for Watson:

 

[Aazealh]

I saw Avatar yesterday myself, in 3D. Wasn't planned or anything but I figured I'd seize the opportunity. It was also my first 3D movie ever. It was certainly entertaining, and I was never bored (could even have done without the intermission). I wasn't blown away either though, and I think it's an exaggeration to compare it to the first Star Wars movie (of course I saw SW as a kid, but still, I'm too objective to be swayed!). One thing I was really unimpressed with was the 3D technology. I had read that Cameron had done a good job of avoiding the blurriness that comes along with it, but my super eagle-eyes definitely noticed it most of the time and it wasn't so great. When things stood still it was fine, but whenever the camera moved, blurrrrr. It also mostly felt like a gimmick to me. It didn't detract from the experience or anything, but I expected something more technically impressive.

Otherwise the movie itself is beautiful. Nice sceneries, the flora in particular, and it's true the CGI is done well enough that you don't roll your eyes at it. I wasn't bothered by the glaring difference between CGI and real stuff like in some other movies. But then again, maybe it's because a lot of the CGI scenes were just full CGI. Along with the vegetation of Pandora I also enjoyed the human technology quite a lot. First thing I thought when I saw the copters was Command & Conquer's Orca unit, and the walking mechas were good fun as well. Same goes for the various HUDs you see them using. I found the design of the fauna rather unambitious though. Space rhino, space monkeys, space hyenas... And space humans too really. I'd read a while back that they had specialized scientists working with them to create alien species and such and I had expected something more daring I guess. But then again, reading that article about Project 880, it seems that most of the stranger creatures that were originally planned were scrapped. Quite unfortunate.

The plot was almost more cliché than I expected it to be. I mean I didn't think it'd really be so close to the cowboys and indians theme, but it was. Nothing much to add in that regard except that I think a better plot would have made the movie more enjoyable. I'm not inclined to forgive a film for a lousy plot just because it went for gorgeous effects. The evil colonel was hilarious since he was such a caricature though. I chuckled a few times at his lines when they were bombing the poor guys. Anyway, as far as plot goes it's definitely regrettable that Cameron had to cut stuff from the Project 880 scriptment. Not that everything in it was good, but I think a better backstory and a little more subtlely could have brought this "nice" and "entertaining" movie to another level.

One thing that annoyed me and that I was just reminded of now is how typically human the Na'Vi act or react. Actually I'd say it goes beyond typical and into stereotypical. One example that comes to mind is when the main character reveals that he knew the humans meant to drive the Na'Vi out and his girlfriend ditches him angrily for having betrayed her trust. So what does he do? Prove he's got the biggest balls by taming the biggest bird, and then they all suck up to him, because you know, he's the alpha male. Now she says she was just afraid before and isn't anymore and all but come on, it's weak. There's also the fact they're supposedly very peaceful, hate to take the life of innocent space hyenas and all, but don't hesitate to go for an all-out war against the human attackers. There's more but in short it felt a bit crude to me.

To go back to what VHB said about the political statement and all that, frankly I think it's being oversensitive. The big company is evil, the weasel dude is a cold-hearted jerk, and the mean colonel is a bloodthristy brute who likes killing the "inferior" savages like they're animals. It's obviously overexaggerated to the point of being cartoonish, but sadly it's also not unseen behavior and mentality in human history. To see a criticism of the US military in the movie says more about your personal experiences and opinions than about the director's intent, IMHO.

And lastly, about District 9 vs Avatar, I'd say without hesitation that Avatar was the most enjoyable experience out of the two. And that's despite the fact I think D9's scenario is better for the most part, so... weird. I guess those 400 million dollars had their use after all.

 

[Death May Die]

I've been reading a lot of talk about potential sequels. I think its not "if" but "when" as Ori mentioned to me above. I did hear on the radio, that there are confirmed sequels but no scripts have been written. But I haven't found a official statement saying a sequel is going into production. Probably several months after this heat wave of success and promotion cools down we will hear something. If not sooner.

http://filmonic.com/avatar-box-office-update-cameron-talks-avatar-sequels-521

The 2ND time I saw Avatar was in 3D, I found it to be a way fuller experience. I've been pretty skeptical about 3D but Avatar has at least "BROKEN" that boundary for me. Next time I see a flick that seems would work well in 3D, I'm probably will go out of the way to see it in 3D. IE Alice in Wonderland. I'm going to see Avatar one last time in few more weeks on its way out of the 3D IMAX.

I did notice that they do are now 3D TVs, glasses required, which is seems natural kinda. A blue ray can hold so much data, it would be kinda cool if they slipped a 3D version of specific movies with they're release. Chances are they would probably sell each version in separate packaging. Computer screens are also taking the 3D detour, I believe the Resident Evil 5 PC version adds a option for depth perception. I would really like to check that out but maybe I've been behind, maybe 3D stuff has been around for years. (Excluding the Blue and Red crap.)

Oh yeah as for Mr. Holmes...

http://www.newsinfilm.com/2009/09/25/sherlock-holmes-sequel-confirmed-pitt-is-in/

 

[SrCraneo]

http://chud.com/articles/articles/21969/1/PROJECT-880-THE-AVATAR-THAT-ALMOST-WAS/Page1.html

Cool, thanks for the link, Griffith.

 

[NightCrawler]

It's called Batman. It's quite popular.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw0zZttfUaw#t=1m44s

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/adults_go_wild_over_latest_in

I understand what you're saying, these movies get held to a lower standard, like children's books, many are vastly overrated, and I generally don't look forward to them or watch them unless the opportunity readily presents itself. I've been making that argument in reverse about those vehemently attacking Avatar for its average plot, where if it were made by Disney or Pixar, many of those same people would be fellating it to death. But I digress, in this instance you're waving your flamethrower so generally I'm going to respond with an ad hominem generalization of my own, which is that it sounds like you're trying so hard at being a film snob you've gone 360 degrees and sound like a bore (I don't even have to intimate that you probably like Willy Wonka predictably for the boat scene, because you admit as much =). Everyone is guilty of this from time to time, myself as much anyone, which is ironically a rather narrow-minded and limited way to appreciate movies or art in general. This is particularly true of animation, which at it's best can transcend typical storytelling by taking full advantage of the visual medium like no other form can. That's a good thing when it comes to cinema, one could argue a better use of it's strengths, because as far as complex characterization and plotting at the highest level goes, anybody that's read a book knows even the best of movies are held to different standards, and rightfully so. So, don't confuse one or a few elements of storytelling for all that storytelling is or how it can and should be done. Even within the medium of film, not all movies have to take the same path to transcendent greatness, or to simply entertain, as the case may be.

Or, I could just point out it's cartoons, and in most cases they are for kids, so stop being so pretentious about it because it's even more ridiculous than simply enjoying them for what they are. =)

I don't like Willy Wonka. I was just pointing out a scene that would probably disturb kids.
It bothers me that every cartoon movie, no matter how mediocre it may be, makes loads of cash. People can detect if a typical blockbuster is shit, but when it comes to a cartoon, they'll eat it up like tacos on free taco day.

 

[Walter]

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I'm glad that people seem to think it pulled off how eccentric Holmes is pretty well. As for Watson:
(image of Watson being a buffoon)

IN DEFENSE OF JOHN WATSON: A PARAGRAPH BY WALTER S. BENNET

My esteemed colleagues, having read most of the Sherlock Holmes stories, I'm always a little peeved when people think of Watson as an idiot who just gesticulates wildly in surprise constantly. He's often underrated simply because he pales in comparison to his partner's superhuman abilities. But Watson's not stupid. He's able to bounce off ideas and even contribute to Holmes' deductive reasoning faster than nearly every other characters in the series. The notable exception being of course, Moriarty. And really, Holmes wouldn't logically have kept him around if he thought Watson as a buffoon.

---------

In other news, I saw Up In The Air last night. It was eh *shrugs* not bad? I have a problem with movies that pretend to have an air of suspense, but I still end up ahead of the plot for most of the movie. If you tie your movie's interest-factor to suspense, please ensure there are enough variables so that audiences will be on their toes throughout. Still, it was sort of funny in an A-list actor kind of way. I'm sure my parents would like it ...

If there's one thing the movie is worth watching for, it's the careful planning of the script, which is going to sound boring to most people. But the pacing of a movie is often overlooked when it scores a slam dunk, but is strung up in front of a crowd when it fails.