Vampire_Hunter_Bob
Cats are great
SimplyEd said:
Doesn't nintendo lose money from those party games? If not, I would think there's barely a demand for those games in comparison to Zelda.
Official SKnet Wii thread
- Thread starter TriFrog
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Doesn't nintendo lose money from those party games? If not, I would think there's barely a demand for those games in comparison to Zelda.
SimplyEd said:
I think that's a bit harsh to say of their conferences in general, as the one of which you just posted a parody was exceptionally awful. I've seen some that were pretty cool. Though I have to admit that conferences have mostly lost their luster for me in the past few years, all manufacturers and developers included.
Walter said:
Fuck this man, there's no excuse. Nothing can ever redeem the Japan-only release of that game. And I'd like a translated Bahamut Lagoon too.
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
No they don't. And I'm not sure the demand is actually higher for more serious games unfortunately, considering the hugeness of the "casual player" market.
Aazealh said:
That's just the way i perceive those conferences, well, at least the ones that i know of or which i actually visited back then. The last one that was even remotely decent was when they announced Twilight Princess for the first time. Before that, i would say the one for Metroid Prime and Echoes was also quite nice. But the general trend in this dilemma would be that only the ones with major titles are even worth to mention.
There's a certain atmosphere around Nintendo conferences that's quite unsettling. I can't really put it to words, but they are trying too hard to present themselves as creators of entertainment for the whole family, so to speak. Maybe there isn't anything wrong with that per se, but it just doesn't sit right with me. The whole thing got worse ever since they started catering way to much towards the casual gamer type with those simple party game clones for the Wii.
I think they should probably not neglect their core fan base which is craving for more of the established big titles with a history behind them. Really, the audience for the E3 2008 presentation was not amused.
Be that as it may, i do applaud their ever growing line up of great titles for the DS, especially when RPGs are concerned.
Sony presentations are a bit more gritty and rewarding for those who take their time to listen to that stuff, but i usually don't care that much because Sony has grown rather arrogant over the years. As much as that may be an earned atribute, i don't like it at all. Plus, they have already lost a lot of ground to the other mayor players because they were too careless with their new flagship, the PS3.
Microsoft is actually doing quite well, at least in the software sector. I think i don't have to mention that they royally screwed up on the hardware part. I mean, that's the first console to make me pray it won't crap out on me every time i switch the damn thing on.
Ultimately, i don't really care too much for the first party developers. They are quite capable to create some very interesting games and i'm sure they'll continue to do so, but my main interest will probably always be with the second and third party developers, regardless for which system they may produce their titles.
[quote author=Aazealh]
No they don't. And I'm not sure the demand is actually higher for more serious games unfortunately, considering the hugeness of the "casual player" market.
[/quote]
The "casual-gamer market" sure is quite large, especially for Nintendo. For some reason, i'm not all that comfortable with that, but as long as we don't start to drown in an endless flood of party-games clones, it doesn't worry me too much.
I really do hate to be this guy but, I felt I've been more than fair to Nintendo up until now. My question is, where ARE the great, solid, casual gamer games? Outside of Wii Sports and Wii Fit, I can't really think of any. I don't even think Mario Galaxy qualifies as a casual gamer game, since it's not specifically geared towards gaming noobs. Parts of the later areas in that game were tricky.
I just know I walk into any game store, and the shelves are flooded with shit - movie licensed games, first-time developers doing lesser Wii Sports spinoffs and other ... unmentionables. The vast majority of my play time on the Wii has been relegated to WiiWare games and Virtual Console - which are awesome, don't get me wrong, but there's no excuse for that to become the backbone of the console.
I just know I walk into any game store, and the shelves are flooded with shit - movie licensed games, first-time developers doing lesser Wii Sports spinoffs and other ... unmentionables. The vast majority of my play time on the Wii has been relegated to WiiWare games and Virtual Console - which are awesome, don't get me wrong, but there's no excuse for that to become the backbone of the console.
Walter said:
I guess that would depend on how far you want to stretch the very definition for a "casual-games" title. I guess you could mention Mario Party and Brawl as some of the better reprentatives, but i'm having a hard time to put those games into one sentence with some of the recent stuff. As innovative as the Wii might be, there's a limit to originality, especially when one can only enjoy certain titles when you're drunk. Oh, and playing with a group of rabid,drunk people on a Wii CAN be dangerous.
Guts intestines
Yer breath is bad... It'll go away with yer head
SimplyEd said:
I agree with the first thing you say because to me therein lies the rub of the Nintendo casual game situation. Basically, I believe the main conflict is due to what Nintendo originally outlined as its goal for the Wii, and what they have done up to this point to accomplish it. When the Wii was first revealed Nintendo touted it as the system that would be accessible to all and that it would be the system that could unite both casual and hardcore gamers into the same living room. To do this Nintendo had motion sensing controls which would bring a new gaming experience to those hardcore gamers out there who may be a bit jaded, or a little tired of the same thing, but at the same time allow casual gamers out there to play because it replicated real life motions, if you want to play a golf game, then hold it like you're playing golf for real. Then Nintendo offered the ability to play just about every Nintendo game ever made through the Virtual Console, this would again serve to bring in new gamers as well as allow hardcore gamers the ability to relive classic games. The price point of the system would allow those who are new to gaming to be more willing to give it a try, as well be the second system most hardcore gamers would buy. In terms of software Nintendo had said that it wanted to create games that could be played and enjoyed by casual gamers yet still allow the depth and replay values that hardcore gamers like, all in all it was an ambitious goal but yet a good one.
Fastforward to sept. 2008, nearly two years since launch and Nintendo has the number one console, has accomplished some of its goals and failed miserably in others. Motion sensing is in the Wii, but in the games from launch to this day it is not nearly as good as it should be. Nintendo said that it would offer games that individually would be accessible and enjoyable to casual fans, as well as pleasing to the hardcore, but yet most of the games out there for Wii are far to casual-centric to the point that they are nothing but shovelware with waggle controls thrown on top, basically throw some sprinkles atop a turd and try to cover up the smell, then offer it for an affordable price, problem is that the game usually stinks so bad that even the low price seems like a ripoff. In the virtual console department there now are a 250 downloadable games, this is great except many highly desired games have yet to appeared for download, Super Mario RPG was on the list of VC games since launch, so why in the hell is it just coming out now? Don't get me started on the slim offerings of online play, which seems even smaller because of the hassle of friend codes.
You read this and you would think that the Wii was an all around failure, well no its not and not just because
it is selling like mad. The success lies within the very real imminence of good to come. All those things (except friend codes) are changing or are likely to change. Motion-sensing will be perfected and I think this will go a long way towards ridding the system of all these waggle gimmick games, then there is the fact that slowly but surely some of the VC games that were in limbo are slowly starting to appear, plus Nintendo (in its own little way) is trying to address storage space issues, as well as the lack of voicechat online, and there are still more of Zelda and Mario yet to come.
I think Nintendo best met its gaming goals through games such as Mario Kart wii, and Brawl. These two games offer that pick up and play ability that Nintendo was aiming for yet offer a good amount of depth for hardcore gamers, all though Brawl has been toned down in comparison to Melee which was a much better competitive game that could be found on the MLG circuit, though I'm hesitant to call Brawl a casual party game by any stretch.
Since this is a long-ass post, I'll just say what I fear to be the biggest problem for Wii: The graphics/computing power. As superficial as this may seem I'm a person who as of now only owns a Wii, and everytime I see an xbox or PS game I'm reminded of how limited the Wii truly is, because it is so limited in these areas it will more than likely have a shortened lifespan as the central Nintendo console. Though the PS2 is still around so who knows? But in order to get to become the next PS2 it'll definitely need a much improved game library. Fingers crossed for a Nintendo Nvidia collabo on a graphics card that they'll install so your warranty isn't voided, but obviously I'm not holding my breath.
SimplyEd said:
Yes but you see, that's where the problem is. Their ever growing line-up of great RPGs you say? And who's developing those games? Because it isn't Nintendo. Are they neglecting their core fan base all that much, or is the problem actually a lack of good third party titles? Because they can't release major Mario, Metroid, Zelda and such games twice a year, and so far that's what many complaints sound like to me. MS and Sony don't come up with first party titles any more often, so I would say that where Nintendo fails is in motivating third party developers to create more "traditional" games on their Wii console. I know they've complained about the lack of effort being put in them in the past, but they probably need to use monetary arguments at this point if they want to get anything done.
SimplyEd said:
Oh come on, Sony's conferences have been really embarrassing as well. There's still hundreds of youtube videos and YTMND websites based on them. From all this, I've pretty much decided not to bother with any conference anymore. MS conferences are more watchable, but in all honesty those events have all felt boring to me nowadays.
SimplyEd said:
I don't think it's necessarily bound to Nintendo. It's just that the Wii's been a commercial success that's highlighted this phenomena. In the previous generation, the PS2 was the queen of all casual games, and I'm certain Sony made big money with that market. I mean I know dozens of people that have a PS2 with a soccer game and that's it. Or maybe a Singstar to go along for when their mates come around with their girlfriends.
Walter said:
Good question actually. I don't think Nintendo's even been making so many of those titles, despite what everyone's been saying. It's mostly subpar products from third parties, the same kind of shit we've seen or rather have ignored with previous generation of consoles. What's preoccupying, at least to me, is the lack of actual serious titles from serious third parties. But I think that may be explained by the fact no one actually believed in the Wii at first. Making a "big" game takes a while, and those that got on the Wii wagon late will only start getting their titles out next year. I know there are more than a few games I'm looking forward to, but none is coming out next month. Nor the month after that.
Guts' intestines said:
Good post overall, I think a simple way of summarizing the whole thing is to say that the Wii needs to catch its second breath. It probably met more success than Nintendo expected, and they've been having trouble handling it all.
Guts' intestines said:
I don't see this happening.
Guts intestines
Yer breath is bad... It'll go away with yer head
Aazealh said:
Yeah, but a guy can dream can't he
?Aazealh said:
I agree and I'd like to add that I also think that third parties have a bad habit of shafting the Wii when they make multiplatform games. If you look at most of the hardcore multiplatform offerings on Wii you'll notice that many of them are developed by special teams separate from those that do the Xbox and PS iterations. Normally this would be a good thing because the Wii would get its own individual focus, problem is these teams seem to love the formulaic waggle only games. The sad thing is that this seems to be mostly due to the Wiis lack of horsepower in comparison to the other two, then you compound this with its differing controls and meager online features then voila a crappy wiigrade multiplatform game is born.
Guts' intestines said:
I think it's mainly a self-imposed dilemma that we are seeing here. As you said, it's not necessarily the system that's faulty but it's the image that Nintnendo wanted to create for it. Even though the reps continously deny accusations that the Wii is mainly relegated to the role of a casual-gamer system, it's exactly those shovelware titles that make their arguments seem moot. Right now the Wii is selling like mad, but i wonder for how long this will continue if we can expect another high grade title every other year or so. Add to that, that if you're comparing gross sales figures, you will see that Nintendo sold more hardware units than Microsoft or Sony did for their systems but at the same time we can see that third parties sold more games for XBOX 360. And we can expect a sharp increase of sales figures once the PS3 can sort out its own faults next year.
You can think about first party products what you want, but the true lifeline for any system would be the third parties, as it is vividly displayed in the case of the immortal Playstation 2. Even if you think of first party games as the backbone of a system, you can still survive with a broken back.
The Virtual Console aspect could be exploited much better and i guess they will ,at some point. The motion sensing thing is doing quite well but i wonder when it will finally loose its gimmicky aspect, especially for titles that are not designed around sports, pseudo-fitness and well, casual short term fun. Only the future can tell what you can accomplish by catering to a large group of people that aren't really all that interested in gaming, those that would favour a quick fix and then be done with it.
[quote author=Aazealh ]Yes but you see, that's where the problem is. Their ever growing line-up of great RPGs you say? And who's developing those games? Because it isn't Nintendo. Are they neglecting their core fan base all that much, or is the problem actually a lack of good third party titles? Because they can't release major Mario, Metroid, Zelda and such games twice a year, and so far that's what many complaints sound like to me. MS and Sony don't come up with first party titles any more often, so I would say that where Nintendo fails is in motivating third party developers to create more "traditional" games on their Wii console. I know they've complained about the lack of effort being put in them in the past, but they probably need to use monetary arguments at this point if they want to get anything done.[/quote]
That's exactly the problem, because, for the DS they are using a more traditional business model coupled with the innovative design of their hardware. I would like to argue that Nintendo could and should improve on their in-house production schedule, especially since they obviously have some trouble with third party support. Those developers are now mostly concentrating on dishing out titles for the other next-gen consoles. Let's face it, apart from the motion sensing controls (which is losing its fascination over time) there's almost nothing about a Wii that any of the last gen consoles couldn't do. And we have to recognize that the PS2 is still very much alive and attractive for many developers.
As you said yourself, its quite realistic that Nintento is having trouble to cope with their surprising success and there's no telling of how long they can just go on like this.
I, myself, would consider the casual-gaming market to be fickle at best.
[quote author=Aazealh ]Oh come on, Sony's conferences have been really embarrassing as well. There's still hundreds of youtube videos and YTMND websites based on them. From all this, I've pretty much decided not to bother with any conference anymore. MS conferences are more watchable, but in all honesty those events have all felt boring to me nowadays.[/quote]
You are right of course. I just wanted that comment to be seen in contrast with Nintendo presentations.
[quote author=Aazealh ]I don't think it's necessarily bound to Nintendo. It's just that the Wii's been a commercial success that's highlighted this phenomena. In the previous generation, the PS2 was the queen of all casual games, and I'm certain Sony made big money with that market. I mean I know dozens of people that have a PS2 with a soccer game and that's it. Or maybe a Singstar to go along for when their mates come around with their girlfriends.[/quote]
Right, though Nintendo is taking that business to a whole new level, and i'm a bit concerned about that. But seriously, i couldn't really care less about casual games/gamers as long as there are still high quality major titles that will spark my interest in the future.
Guts intestines
Yer breath is bad... It'll go away with yer head
I agree with most of what you're saying Ed, and a lot of it was what I was getting at. However, I have to throw a monkey wrench in there when it comes to the third party thing.
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/08/09/nintendo-releases-third-party-sales-chart-npd-clarifies-some-de/
Take this into consideration with the fact that many third party games that are multiplatform for PS3 and XBOX 360 aren't on Wii and you can see that the numbers are even better than how they're represented.
As I said before the day waggle gimmicks will more than likely end will be with the release of wii motion-plus. I also think the Wii will begin to get a lot of FPS love, (beginning with the Conduit, imo.) especially considering how well done the controls were for Medal of Honor Heroes 2, and in a non-traditional sense Metroid Prime 3.
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/08/09/nintendo-releases-third-party-sales-chart-npd-clarifies-some-de/
Take this into consideration with the fact that many third party games that are multiplatform for PS3 and XBOX 360 aren't on Wii and you can see that the numbers are even better than how they're represented.
As I said before the day waggle gimmicks will more than likely end will be with the release of wii motion-plus. I also think the Wii will begin to get a lot of FPS love, (beginning with the Conduit, imo.) especially considering how well done the controls were for Medal of Honor Heroes 2, and in a non-traditional sense Metroid Prime 3.
Guts' intestines said:
Yeah, right after Nintendo presented those graphs, Microsoft did a face off of their own with the same NPD figures. To be perfectly fair, both of them are only juggling around the numbers to fit their own ends and somehow they seem to end up on a stalemate.
In any way, i'd really wish for Nintendo to keep on being successful with what they are doing. Even though id never buy most of their recent line up. In fact, there's only a handful of titles that would spark my interest right now (which could easily change with a larger support for the VCON).
Guts intestines
Yer breath is bad... It'll go away with yer head
SimplyEd said:
Well you still can't argue with the data because if you think about it most of the "casual" games have been made by third parties and are what's selling on Wii, then you have large third parties such as EA that have been given unprecedented support for a Nintendo console. The IGN crew broke down the data in a podcast weeks back and they're smart enough to see when a company is trying to manipulate data to make it appear as something it's not, and really the conclusion is that third parties have been successful on Wii, that's a moot point, however the argument is whether the games that they're making are pleasing to hardcore gamers. Finally when you look at the Microsoft data you're seeing data that is more manipulated simply because it has a larger library than Wii as well a considerable head start and installed base. So for once you don't have to take the numbers that Nintendo is giving with a grain of salt because it's the real deal.
Guts' intestines said:
Well, Microsoft was using the same data from NPD that Nintendo threw at them. But you're right, they said they did a comparison starting from the time of the Wii/PS3 launch date, but at that time they already had a one year head start. Both of them aren't exactly lying. Anyway, let's see how this will all play out next year.
I'd like to think so, but most newer FPS use cutting-edge graphics engines. That's sort of the genre's bread-and-butter: GRAFIXXX. The Wii simply isn't capable of outputting the same complexity as the PS3 and XBOX. However, that doesn't mean games on the Wii have to be all Gauroud-shaded and disgusting. It just takes some effort on behalf of the developer to put a spit shine on the low-poly graphics.Guts' intestines said:
I think most of my library is composed of casual games. games that are ya know, fun - and don't drain hours of my life away.
Well its not like I'm offended or anything. My gaming philosophy changed in the past few years from a "hardcore gamer" who has hours and hours of time to blow on a game, to "casual" since I have very little free time. The past few epic games Ive played, Ive literally gotten lost because of weeks of time between playing sessions. that's actually what's kept me from finishing Okami. I already forgot what the hell I've done and where Im supposed to go.
Walter said:
Ah, yeah, i can certainly relate to that. Over the last year i was pretty much overloaded with work. I barely even roamed around the net at that time and only spent a few hours of gaming sessions around sundays. That was annoying. Thankfully, everything seems to have calmed down considerably recently. I can remember playing Wild Arms 5 during those sundays and then, after a couple of weeks, i have completely forgotten the story around it.
Guts intestines
Yer breath is bad... It'll go away with yer head
Walter said:
I agree to large extent because the first thing I notice when I first see a FPS is the graphics, but I'm a graphics whore so I don't really count, the bigger focus with FPS' is in their controls and the conduit has this in spades, especially in terms of customization. They're working on incorporating not only the online multiplayer but also 16-man LAN multiplayer (they have 12-man down so far and are awaiting Nintendo's approval for LAN). Then when you take into account that the Conduit right now is possibly the best looking Wii game as of yet, and High Voltage is getting the wii speak and motion-plus dev kits, wii speak is almost a guaranteed inclusion to the game and when you look at the all of the options such as real time adjustment for your bounding box, look sensitivity, run speed, and button configurations it rivals a PC shooter in customization and you can shrink the bounding box down to the point that the turning speed will be the closest console thing to a PC's controls. When it comes to controls and an FPS graphics mean little to nothing in the big picture because tight controls are what makes them playable.
Guts' intestines said:
Yup, basically you have games made by a "second team" which is in most cases a hastily assembled rag-tag group of less experienced/competent people.
SimplyEd said:
Bad titles come out on all consoles and have always been though. And people have been pushing the "kiddy" image on Nintendo for what, 15 years now? It started with Sega and their too cool for school mascot Sonic and it never ended after that. Now it's moved on to "casual games" (with a little more legitimacy since Nintendo now does pursue that target) but I feel that it's essentially the same argument, and from the same people as far as I can see. I agree that there's been a lot of worthless stuff coming out on the Wii, but I'll make you a list of worthless PS2 games if you want and I bet you it won't pale in comparison. In short, I don't think you can blame Nintendo themselves for the bad third party games, or rather for the lack of good ones. What they could do though is to buy other companies and force them into developing on their systems. But do we want that?
SimplyEd said:
I wouldn't be too worried about it if I were you. The more a console sells, the more games it gets, and so on. Things are dry at the moment but I expect 2009 to see more activity.
SimplyEd said:
That remains to be seen. I've been hearing this ever since it came out.
SimplyEd said:
How is it more traditional? Nintendo themselves really didn't go for the hardcore gamers with their early NDS titles. Nintendogs, Animal Crossing, Brain Training... As always it's the third party titles that did the deed.
SimplyEd said:
Possibly. Though they already release more titles than most developers.
SimplyEd said:
Well, I'm not sure the current situation of more high class third party releases for X360/PS3 vs Wii ones is going to last forever. And that PS2/Wii comparison you're making is truer than you intended it to I think. The Wii's the successor of the PS2 in a sense, and we might yet see a move from one to the other from small developers. Less costly than developing HD titles, a good user base... I can see the advantages.
In the end though, to enjoy all good third party titles, you'll have to get another console along with a Wii. I'm planning to get a X360 at some point myself exactly for that reason, because I know the Wii's limited graphics processing makes it impossible for games like RE5 or FFXIII to be released on it.
Aazealh said:
No, of course not.^^
But it is up to Nintendo to to walk up to the third parties and make their system more attractive to them. So that they'll come up with much better games that don't have that feeling of being just an afterthought about them.
I'm not as pessimistic as it might look like, because i know that Nintendo can do much better than most people would like to give them credit for.
[quote author=Aazealh]
That remains to be seen. I've been hearing this ever since it came out.[/quote]
Ever since its launch, things have changed quite a bit and i think that Sony is finally getting a grip on most of their own problems. Ars technica wrote a nice summary on that matter. For the future, they just have to make sure that they don't lose up on their exclusive titles. They can't do much about cross-platform titles, except maybe that those titles could profit much more from the superior hardware (which is a major problem because the devs are still trying to tame that beast i.e. they have yet to fully exploit its raw power). But that's something that will happen eventually.
[quote author=Aazealh]
Possibly. Though they already release more titles than most developers.[/quote]
Yeah, that's because Nintendo usually likes to support their systems with titles of their own. Much more than other devs, that is.
[quote author=Aazealh]
Well, I'm not sure the current situation of more high class third party releases for X360/PS3 vs Wii ones is going to last forever. And that PS2/Wii comparison you're making is truer than you intended it to I think. The Wii's the successor of the PS2 in a sense, and we might yet see a move from one to the other from small developers. Less costly than developing HD titles, a good user base... I can see the advantages.[/quote]
I meant what i was saying. Even though the PS2 is a last-gen platform, it is still a valid competitor for the Wii in many respects. The Wiis innovative controller scheme might not be enough incentive to sway "small" developers to jump onto the bandwagon. And right now they can still address a larger target audience with an established system.
Yet again, it's Nintentos call to get the third parties into their boat.
SimplyEd said:
That's right, but who's to say they haven't been doing that? I mean I don't know whether it's the case or not, but I doubt they haven't tried to get people to develop on their console. Like I mentioned earlier Miyamoto even publicly complained a while ago that third parties weren't putting enough work in their Wii games, so I assume they're trying to get that changed.
SimplyEd said:
The ones they have left, that is. Which are not many.
SimplyEd said:
Still waiting for an actual demonstration of that oh so superior hardware compared to the X360's.
SimplyEd said:
They're one of the biggest developers in the world and obviously they aren't going to make games for their competitors' platforms. Otherwise I'm pretty sure they like to support their systems as much as other manufacturers like to support theirs. But where's my GT5?
SimplyEd said:
And a valid competitor for the PS3, who's still barely outselling it in Japan to this day. Now we all have our opinion on how things could go from now on, but when I see for example that Monster Hunter 3 is coming out on Wii after a history of PS2 releases, I don't tend to worry too much.
Guts intestines
Yer breath is bad... It'll go away with yer head
SimplyEd said:
Ed, you still seem to want to use this pretty weak argument of lack of third party support. Again I say that the Wii doesn't have a problem getting third party support, the problem lies with the craptacular games that many of these third parties churn out (which is what Miyamoto was talking about). If you still think Nintendo has a problem getting third party support look at Wiiware, that whole service would be nonexistent if not for third party developers. Then you have the fact that many third party made classic Nintendo games are be allowed to be released (some slower than others... *cough* Super Mario RPG... *cough*) on to VC, and its not a small number either. Nintendo has been able to build a strong relationship now with EA, who has turned out one of the better multiplayer options on the console in Medal of Honor Heroes 2, as well as recently the new Tiger Woods game that the guys on IGN call the definitive version. At the same time Nintendo has been able to attract new and upcoming third parties such as gamecock through wiiware, so again that's a pretty weak argument because there are way more third party games on Wii than in house developed ones. So again if Nintendo just had some decent quality control on these third party games it'd be a different story, but atleast this time around they're making sure that third parties get the dev kits they need to make better games because as we speak third parties are starting to get motion-plus and wiispeak (I think EA already has them) which will do a lot to improve Wii games. And I plug this game like I'm being paid to do so but the Conduit is imo the game to look for on wii, possibly the wii's Halo. If it's successful, I called it.
On a separate note I'll weigh in on the PS3 and XBOX 360 argument about which is more powerful. Simply put the PS3 is more powerful, however the individual Core Processors on the 360 are far more powerful than any of the individual cores on a PS3. The PS3's strength lies in the way its cell processors work, whereas the 360 has more traditional Processors the PS3 has one traditional core processor with 7 or 8 cell processors that divide up the work. The 360 is powerful by any standard and has 3 cores whereas most pc's for gaming may only have dual, as I said the individually these processors are better but PS3 works on the idea of sum of better via sum of the parts. The thing is as you said Ed developers have yet to juice the PS3 for all its worth graphically, but the PS3 is not lightyears ahead of the 360 and by the time that the PS3 is definitively better graphically there will be a new Xbox. The thing you're not taking into account is that the PS3 is meant to last longer than the 360 in terms of its lifespan, Sony is aiming to make the PS3 the new PS2 in terms of how long it'll gain support. Microsoft is aiming for a shorter lifespan and a new Xbox will likely be the first new system on the market. I'd have called Nintendo as the first one except for the fact that Xbox has a year on it, so whereas the PS3 will be hitting its stride Microsoft will likely have new more powerful Xbox that'll likely surpass the PS3. The PS3 has more power in order to last the many years that Sony will have it out for, this gives developers all the time they need for learning every nuance.
Guts' intestines said:
You are, of course, right with what have said, but that's not entirely what i was getting at.
Actually i'm way more concerned with quality and not so much the quantity. But that's mainly what *i* would perceive as quality, mind you. There is a target audience for casual games or minigames or shovelware or whatnot out there, but what i've seen up to now, the kind of support that third parties are offering that system, just doesnt sit well with me. I think its Nintendos call to do something about it. Maybe not now, maybe not for the whole of next year, but at some point they'll need more quality titles unless they are already planing towards a new flagship system. And they'll need those quality titles from third parties just as much as they need the ones from their own developers. But, as you said, there's already more than one light to be seen on the horizon with those new hardware improvements and i don't want to argue with that.
Hmm, i think i might risk my neck if this continues on much longer, lol^^
About the PS3/360. I think i remember an article which stated that both systems are still far from reaching the end of their capabilities for quite some time. I mean, for the PS2 it has taken more than a few years to reach its peak.
And as far as Microsoft is concerned, i want them to fix their hardware mess first because each and every one of us with a 360 is only playing on borrowed time, with the RROD looming over every single unit that has been sold so far.