Author Topic: Star Wars: Episode IX  (Read 409 times)

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Offline Griffith

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Star Wars: Episode IX
« on: July 30, 2018, 08:09:06 PM »
https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-ix-cast-announced

So, the big news here is Carrie Fisher will appear in Episode IX after all from old footage, apparently shot during Episode VII (man, TFA and TLJ seem even more like two disparate productions). Hamill is back too for that matter, which I wasn't 100% sure about as ludicrous as I know that sounds (seemed like they might want to be rid of him =).

Anyway, a bunch of re-edited, re-purposed footage of Carrie Fisher sounds about as fraught as CGI really. It could be very awkward or lacking in the desired effect, "We've got this great footage of Carrie petting her dog on set but we'll CGI a throne behind her and make the dog Salacious Crumb (they reconnected as Jabba's Palace survivors #theCircleIsComplete)!" Like, are they going to try and have a climatic moment with her here, or just an independently context appropriate scene of her Generaling that doesn't necessarily address her departure? Sounds odd in any case. I was hoping they'd just do the sensibly classy thing and open the movie with her funeral (maybe honor Han and Luke while they're at it), but those are not the times we live in. It's hilarious to me that we're having this conversation at all and how you CGI somebody or not is the way to show respect to the recently deceased. We won't cross THAT line, but we will slap together a bunch of stock footage into a "performance" and probably CGI the Hell of it anyway. :schierke:


And since Luke Skywalker himself is officially "back" now, I'm wondering if J.J. Abrams will try retroactively redeem or improve his arc and its conclusion since he didn't really get a word on that by his own making, or, if he does even try, how dramatically:

Very Dramatic - Luke, or perhaps Luuke, is back as a clone for a total do-over; fuck Ep. VIII, Rian Johnson, and this trilogy as a narrative!

Moderately Dramatic - He's a fully present force ghost that's so heavily involved you'll hardly notice he's technically not there!

Less Dramatic - He's a supporting ghost that makes multiple appearances critical to the characters and/or plot.

Least Dramatic - A token sendoff ghost scene that tells the fanboys, "It's ok, I'm much happier as a ghost." :ganishka:

Worst Dramatic - He appears with Yoda and Leia at the end and Rey smiles at them in a finale scene lifted directly from RotJ. Oh fuck, that's happening. That's where they'll use the Carrie Fisher footage! Better yet, have every force ghost there, including both Anakins, like some massive fighting game roster, "We got every ghost back in this one!" :troll:

Kidding aside, I think just putting a bow or a cap on it at all will retroactively improve and wash out the unpleasant aftertaste of TLJ because it won't be the last word anymore, but will reinforce the power of those moments so they can be appreciated in a larger context. I'm not saying it'll be great, but it will no longer feel like such an instant death blow to the ole' childhood, just a mortal wound we'll get some necessary catharsis on here. :carcus:

Offline Walter

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Re: Star Wars: Episode IX
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2018, 08:25:31 PM »
Carrie Fisher & Andy Serkis as General Leia.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: Episode IX
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2018, 08:33:58 PM »
Carrie Fisher & Andy Serkis as General Leia.

How DARE you insinuate something so tacky and disrepectful, Disney/Lucasfilm would never dishonor any actor Peter Cushing Carrie Fisher the recently dead that way! They're going to use old outtakes from The Blues Brothers and a sex tape of her and Peter Mayhew in Chewbacca costume from the 1978 Holiday Special to create one of the most classy, tasteful farewell performances by a non-partictpating dead actor you've ever seen! Her family is so approving of this honor they've already agreed to accept royalty checks on her behalf for the appearance.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Star Wars: Episode IX
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2018, 09:01:01 PM »
Honestly not interested in this at all after the previous two movies (not even talking about the spin-offs, I doubt I'll ever watch Solo).

Offline Sareth

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2018, 09:20:14 PM »
Can't wait to see the climactic battle between MaRey Sue and Darth Fanboy on the new Star Killerer Base.

Offline Nothingwillbewong

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2018, 10:31:47 PM »
It baffles me how quickly Disney shot itself on the foot with bad decision making for franchise. Which I think is probably the best thing that could happen, let it all burn and god forbid they'll have to start treating movies like a medium with any artistic substance.

Also I don't understand why they draw the line in reviving princess leya with CGI but did it with Peter Cushing, I guess he isn't beloved enough?

Offline Cyrus Jong

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2018, 01:21:44 AM »

Online Zeke

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2018, 09:27:03 AM »
While the current state of the Star Wars franchise is indeed lamentable, let's take a moment to consider Lucas' original vision for episodes VII - IX.   :ganishka:

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/06/george-lucas-episode-vii-episode-ix-1201974276/

Quote
"[The next three ‘Star Wars’ films] were going to get into a microbiotic world,” he told Cameron. “There’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force.”

Elsewhere in the conversation, Lucas admitted, “Everybody hated it in ‘Phantom Menace’ [when] we started talking about midi-chlorians.” In terms of his storytelling, Lucas regarded individuals as “vehicles for the Whills to travel around in…And the conduit is the midi-chlorians. The midi-chlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force.”

Lucas is confidant that had he kept his company, the Whills-focused films “would have been done. Of course, a lot of the fans would have hated it, just like they did ‘Phantom Menace’ and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would be told.”

Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: Episode IX
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2018, 07:28:07 PM »
Honestly not interested in this at all after the previous two movies (not even talking about the spin-offs, I doubt I'll ever watch Solo).

Though I haven't seen Solo either, I'm loosely planning to when it comes to my local $2 theater. I've heard interesting things; some like it the most out of these new movies, some say it's of the same kind, but it has Kasdan (and his son *nepotism alert*), so I'll be interested to see what sort of mess they made. On its face, making an unnecessary origin story/prequel like this for an already iconic character was a terrible idea, as Lucasfilm should have already well known. There was much lower hanging fruit, like doing more with the original cast before they die besides killing them, or that forever rumored Obi-Wan movie, which still seems like the most natural and appealing idea of all the contrived spinoff concepts tossed out there (how do they justify going forward with a Rian Johnson trilogy? =). Anyway, nobody was asking for The Young Han Solo Chronicles on the big screen, the risk was huge and the reward a longshot at best. They probably made it for the "right" reasons though, like Kasdan wanted to do it and so Kennedy said, "great" but they didn't think it all the way through, obviously.

It baffles me how quickly Disney shot itself on the foot with bad decision making for franchise. Which I think is probably the best thing that could happen, let it all burn and god forbid they'll have to start treating movies like a medium with any artistic substance.

The Lucasfilm Story Group is all about artistic substance, and integrity, and inclusion, and classic Star Wars, and taking Star Wars to new places for new fans, but still pleasing old fans, and the Skywalkers, and the extended universe, and all things to all people, and... ya know, they may just be trying to serve too many masters to try to make Star Wars some be all, end all thing for everybody, but it's not (just ask China, they don't care =), its galaxy has limitations like everything else and they'd be better off not worrying about that at all and just worrying about actual story (or even just continuity and congruity). Like when Rian Johnson bases major elements of his sequel on a scene of Han Solo's dice in The Force Awakens, maybe leave that scene in the goddamned movie!? Otherwise, what the hell else is a story group for other than to waste time? I guess they didn't have time to discuss it at committee (my God, they really made a committee).


Anyway, to put a bow on this, I don't even think the movies are that bad, TFA and TLJ are fine, well made movies, TFA coming the closest to recapturing the old magic with the original cast/crew plus good contributions from the new guys, TLJ being more like a meta fan film that bucked all that (including the old crew, sadly), but they're not standout action/adventure movies by today's standards other than for Star Wars fans seeing the band get semi-back together (why couldn't they all get together again? This IS a movie, right? They didn't actually have galaxy-sized logistical hurdles, they just needed to write something fun and appropriate? =). In any case, I think they're actually better than most crap out there, and they're certainly better films than most Marvel movies for mega franchise blockbuster comparison, but they're certainly not as pleasing and they can't expect to restore Star Wars to the top of the action pecking order after 30 years of other movies ripping it off and improving the formula. In that regard they simply don't stand out and I don't see what they can do about that other than giving the franchise to some crazy visionary directors or really debasing themselves (Fast & Furious... In Space! =). But they've already proven too conservative for that. Again, they want it both, or all, ways and are having it none so it's an awkward mess. They really shouldn't have kept Solo's original date because it was too close to TLJ and it felt like they were strangling the golden goose. Now they're left with a real goose egg for a year and a half before Ep.9 can make it all better at the bank. I bet they're counting the days.


Now, now people, there's no need to be so pessimistic. Thanks to modern editing techniques, they can use existing footage to complete the movie and feature Leia without Carrie Fisher.

And they can just get someone to dub her voice to say whatever they want, just like CGI Cushing! #RIP #Respect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5ffaTv4ajg

While the current state of the Star Wars franchise is indeed lamentable, let's take a moment to consider Lucas' original vision for episodes VII - IX.   :ganishka:

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/06/george-lucas-episode-vii-episode-ix-1201974276/

Now that's what Star Wars is REALLY about! :troll: :magni:

Lucas' is such a bullshitter though that I don't know what to believe from him on what the next trilogy would have been, or how many parts were ultimately "conceived," etc. The story has just changed too much over the decades and the answer is it ultimately wasn't going to go anywhere under him, which is why he sold it. And from what I understand Disney has incorporated plenty of elements of his Ep. VII treatment into the new trilogy: Kira = Rey, Uber= Snoke, Sam/Skyler was split into Finn and Kylo, who was also combined with Talon, Solo's death was in there, as was a disillusioned Luke training Kira/Rey, etc. How much more to it was there, and how much did he have on subsequent episodic entries after all those years? Some pages and paragraphs on each? That Disney stretched that Ep. 7 material into two movies and threw the rest of it in the dust bin probably tells you all you need to know about what and how much was actually there. I don't think they tossed out a bunch of gold just to make up their own trite shit. This was the best they had, including the best George Lucas could give them, and was presented better than he was capable of on his own at this point.

Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Star Wars: Episode IX
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2018, 03:28:58 PM »
December 2019 will come by real quick.

Carrie Fisher & Andy Serkis as General Leia.
Can totally see that happening.

Honestly not interested in this at all after the previous two movies (not even talking about the spin-offs, I doubt I'll ever watch Solo).
Both Rogue One and Solo, I felt were better than movies VII and VIII. I wasn't thrilled to see Solo because there was just a lot of SW at the time but in retrospect, it was fun. Nothing great but decent-to-good I guess if that can be considered to be a metric. I'm glad they've put a halt to other spin-offs - Fett/ Kenobi - because Solo did averagely at the box office.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: Episode IX
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2018, 07:22:13 PM »
Both Rogue One and Solo, I felt were better than movies VII and VIII. I wasn't thrilled to see Solo because there was just a lot of SW at the time but in retrospect, it was fun. Nothing great but decent-to-good I guess if that can be considered to be a metric. I'm glad they've put a halt to other spin-offs - Fett/ Kenobi - because Solo did averagely at the box office.

The problem, as you allude to it, is they all have a very fine professional polish because they're basically so high budget they're no budget productions: Rogue One and Solo were production disasters, one they salvaged at the box office and one that couldn't be saved, but they spared no expense, even if they had to reshoot the entire film, trying to make them as good as they could no matter the consequences (because cutting bait and tarnishing the brand as a throwaway was worse than doubling down on a turd). That makes them hard to judge as films because should we give these movies credit for looking good and being objectively well made, or just not shitty, when most of that is just bought production values while the actual storytelling ranges from derivative and uninspired to underwhelming, unnecessary or non-existent (well polished turds, basically)?

That's why everyone's mileage varies so much on these movies. You could make a case for or against any of them based on whatever metrics you want to use and come out with four different orders of quality. Hell, Episode VIII might have the best story elements yet everyone hates its plot! I still think TFA is the best of them because it had the most elements of the classic trilogy and the mandate and correct approach to REVIVE STAR WARS. Plus, Rey and Finn were somewhat revelations in those films you couldn't just buy, they were genuinely likable, well-written and acted characters (remember, Ep 7 was co-written by Michael Arndt and Lawrence Kasdan). That did not carry over to TLJ and though it might be the most organically created story by an auteur, it might still be a turd! I don't know, it's hard for me to get past the "turd polishing" reshoot vibes of Rogue One and Solo where they're basically trying to make those movies up to par after the fact. It's the problem with the whole thing though, they're trying to manufacture new Star Wars without fresh inspiration, because that doesn't retrofit, by just taking shit from the original trilogy and extrapolating on it. They've already run into a wall doing it that way, so they better look elsewhere for viable material.

That's why I'm more interested in how JJ Abrams pulls off Ep 9 than the actual story or state of Star Wars after. He did a good job reviving it, can he now redeem that revival after they hand him back the keys to a car they just crashed, and make the sequel trilogy feel like it meant something more than commerce and missed opportunities, ultimately? He's also liable because he punted on Luke Skywalker, and getting the band back together, in the first place. We'll see how it turns out and if he can end it on a note at least as satisfying as he began with.

Offline NightCrawler

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Re: Star Wars: Episode IX
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2018, 12:04:12 AM »
Who cares?
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: Episode IX
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2018, 05:29:36 AM »
Who cares?

I know what you mean! Who IS supposed to care about this down the line? You never did, I still do (clearly =), but it's fickle and fleeting and doesn't extend far beyond the reach of the classic movies and, more importantly, characters. Do young people care about this more than any other young adult blockbuster franchise? Do kids? There's no defined story integrity or continuity to speak of to engender such feelings, they're just sort of flailing from one to the next. What seemed like at least a promising start, if nothing else, might have already been the peak of this endeavor. To put it in common terms, Star Wars, at least as a film series, could be well on its way to becoming like the Alien "franchise"; a couple of classic films from the 70s and 80s turned into a mixed bag of lesser sequels, prequels and pseudo-remakes that at best are mediocre tributes that dilute the power of the originals, and at worst are self-parodies that make you question that power in the first place.

David Lynch said something simple yet insightful about Lucas and Star Wars, that it was completely his thing, but it just so happened to make ridiculous money and became what we know it as today. It wasn't created to be that though, and at some point was as much Lucas' weird creation as Lynch's works are his. And even Lucas, as much as he mass marketed and merchandised Star Wars as a product, remained fiercely stubborn and possessive of the films, for better or worse, and had the wisdom not to try having one put out every year, every other year, or God forbid six months apart, but when he felt like it, which he largely didn't, and eventually not at all, naturally. Contrast that with Disney's never ending committee commissioned reruns and suddenly Lucas and his purported gonzo sequels about the microbiotic world of Midiclorians and the Whills sounds more appealing. Even if they would have been horrible failures it might have been a preferable outcome, a better end just for ending, like if Alien had ended with 3, and perhaps even nobly for trying something different and unique. I might rather live in a universe where those weird failed creations exist instead of this inexorable march to nowhere.

Thanks for bringing this up. :griffnotevil:
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 03:55:29 PM by Griffith »