Author Topic: Berserk and the state of the anime industry  (Read 12995 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Señor Caudillo

  • FX: DUUUHING
  • Quarantined
  • Of the Interstice
  • *
  • Posts: 162
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« on: July 20, 2011, 01:57:02 AM »
Seeing what has been going on over the past several years with the anime industry as whole, we must realize that it probably wouldn't have made a difference which studio licensed to adapt Berserk. Whether it's the almighty anime giants such as Toei Animation, Sunrise, OLM, Studio Pierrot, or the smaller and more obscure ones like Studio 4°C and Bee Train, this Berserk OVA would nevertheless still have come out CGI animated and looking like some cheap-ass PSP video game. Both due to economic downturn (which has hit Japanese animation pretty hard) and ongoing "modern" animation trends, the animation companies throughout Japan have been massively laying off their long-time production staff and veteran animators, artists (which includes ink and paint artists, touch-up artists and background artists), editors, scriptwriters, composers and so forth. These veteran workers have been partly displaced by younger and less experienced staff that have barely graduated animation schools or are still interns and thus are much cheaper to afford, and partly by computer animation. No doubt, that these recent and on-going industry-wide dismissals and purges of such experienced and valuable long-time talent and their replacement with computers have resulted in such glaring drop in animation quality. Whether it's the characters' misshapen and non-symmetric facial features, their body parts appearing to be not proportionate to one another, and their physical movement itself looking so unnaturally stiff and bone-dry (with Zodd's flapping his wings and flying off into the air, and the Guts' charging towards the screen/Griffith with his sword being some of the most jarring examples), it shows. One must keep in mind that just until 8-10 years ago, the studios had people who worked to make certain that none of these things occurred. But now that their functions have been taken over by computers, this is the result that we now see, as exemplified by the screens that Griff has posted.

Offline frankencowx

Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2011, 11:23:50 AM »
Whether it's the almighty anime giants such as Toei Animation, Sunrise, OLM, Studio Pierrot, or the smaller and more obscure ones like Studio 4°C and Bee Train, this Berserk OVA would nevertheless still have come out CGI animated and looking like some cheap-ass PSP video game. Both due to economic downturn (which has hit Japanese animation pretty hard) and ongoing "modern" animation trends..

What he said.

Offline Sammoniac

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 151
  • Karma: 3
  • Gender: Male
  • You taffers!
Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2011, 04:20:31 PM »
Given the span of this project, I still believe that Berserk is getting the royal treatment. Let's not forget that this isn't just one movie. Its going to be way bigger than that. So far, I don't feel that its going to be comparable to some lame video game cut-scenes. A lot more artistic elements come into play, and from what I've seen the animation seems to deliver rather well, even with the CG. Sure the budget is restricted, but the project itself is huge so they have to carefully plan everything. And let's not forget that big names like WB really help on the financial side. I have faith.

Offline Señor Caudillo

  • FX: DUUUHING
  • Quarantined
  • Of the Interstice
  • *
  • Posts: 162
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2011, 11:42:39 PM »
A Berserk facebook page posted these head shots, from a site called from JPOPASIA.COM. The news came about 3 days ago, I didn't see anyone else post the pictures so I thought I would give it a shot.
<<Images Snipped>>

Urghh...
Just what in the hell were Miura and Hakusensha thinking, entrusting an animated adaptation of a best-selling epic manga masterpiece like Berserk to the hands of  Studio 4°C, an obscure little league animation studio that was founded by a couple of Studio Ghibli rejects, has no renowned anime series to its credit, and whose sole notable production achievement has been of a few  Animatrix short films, from over 7 years ago (which explains the Warner Bros. logo).
Observe;









And now, they are applying the same tacky CGI animation onto Berserk..... shame. Shame.

Funny how most anime tend to westernize characters, and how these ones, that should look western, look more Asian.

Hmm... I'm more inclined to think that the "Asiatic" appearance of the characters (nevermind that they are  in story that is set in fictional fantasy version of medieval Europe, and thus they're supposed to look European) more likely has been an unintentional result of the stiff and lifeless CGI graphics, with its skewed and "droopy" facial features. And Guts, looking Mongoloid? Bah!! With the way the genius animators of Studio 4°C handled him, he looks more like a sea otter than a Hun   :troll:





See?  :iva:

BTW, anyone notice how Guts' scar on his nose is now shaped like a retarded peace sign?   :ganishka:


Offline Eluvei

Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2011, 12:22:21 AM »
Urghh...
Just what in the hell were Miura and Hakusensha thinking, entrusting an animated adaptation of a best-selling epic manga masterpiece like Berserk to the hands of  Studio 4°C, an obscure little league animation studio that was founded by a couple of Studio Ghibli rejects, has no renowned anime series to its credit, and whose sole notable production achievement has been of a few  Animatrix short films, from over 7 years ago (which explains the Warner Bros. logo).

Way to vomit a lot of bullshit in the thread. Studio 4°C has some of the best anime movies I've seen, even if some of them have shitty plots, like Spriggan.

Offline Sammoniac

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 151
  • Karma: 3
  • Gender: Male
  • You taffers!
Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2011, 01:06:41 AM »
Urghh...
Just what in the hell were Miura and Hakusensha thinking, entrusting an animated adaptation of a best-selling epic manga masterpiece like Berserk to the hands of  Studio 4°C, an obscure little league animation studio that was founded by a couple of Studio Ghibli rejects, has no renowned anime series to its credit, and whose sole notable production achievement has been of a few  Animatrix short films, from over 7 years ago (which explains the Warner Bros. logo).

I'm among those who like what we were presented as far as visuals go, despite the various inconsistencies of course. The character designs and backgrounds look pretty good in my opinion. I'm not to afraid of the CG either. If properly done, it can greatly add to an animated movie. I've got a college decree in 2D animation, so I should be the first to complain, but I still don't mind computer magic from time to time. And its not like EVERYTHING will be CG...only the scenes where complicated and elaborate armors will need to move, or huge armies, or a couple of flashy camera angles from time to time. The fact that CG is incorporated doesn't have an impact on the character's faces ALL the time...

Regarding Studio 4C, why not give them a chance? Its their biggest project so far, and will likely be their cornerstone. They won't fuck this up, I'm sure.



Regarding this shot, I kind of admit Guts' face could have been looking better. In fact, since the very first time I saw the trailer, I thought he looked kind of weird. But why blame it on CG? It SHOWS that its hand drawn. It also moves like its hand drawn. And the other shots showing the characters' faces are all okay to me. Please cut the crap, wait, and see.

Offline Truder

  • Of the Nexus
  • ***
  • Posts: 613
  • Karma: 9
  • Gender: Male
  • "I frown at Griffith's nipples" -Aazealh
Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2011, 05:05:42 AM »
Guts is only CG in this part of the trailer:






also..

is it just me or do Zodd's horns crisscross? I think it might be an Optical illusion.

Offline frankencowx

Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2011, 11:41:48 AM »
And its not like EVERYTHING will be CG...only the scenes where complicated and elaborate armors will need to move, or huge armies, or a couple of flashy camera angles from time to time.

How do you know this?

Offline KuraiDragoon

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 213
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • Kuro no mahoutsukai
Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2011, 02:47:44 PM »
I have a feeling that in a few years time, people on here will be talking about this project in just as disparaging a way as they do the original anime.





Looks like a character from a DragonBall Z Budokai game.
~May the night always embrace its own~

Offline Dar Klink

  • Falconian
  • Of the Vortex
  • *****
  • Posts: 1122
  • Karma: 28
  • Gender: Male
  • Last Guardian when? - CyberKlink 20XX before dying
Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2011, 02:57:04 PM »
Urghh...
Just what in the hell were Miura and Hakusensha thinking, entrusting an animated adaptation of a best-selling epic manga masterpiece like Berserk to the hands of  Studio 4°C, an obscure little league animation studio that was founded by a couple of Studio Ghibli rejects, has no renowned anime series to its credit, and whose sole notable production achievement has been of a few  Animatrix short films, from over 7 years ago (which explains the Warner Bros. logo).
You shouldn't talk about things you have no clue about man. That maybe how you see them from a Western perspective(as in just from what's popular here), but in all reality they're one of the better choices for this. That being said, I dislike how they're handling the project so far, what I could say has probably been said a million times, but to me the worst part is the staff listing, packed with no-names and people who worked on anime series I, frankly, hated. The voice actor thing irks me too, but not as badly. The only worthwhile name on the staff list to me is maybe the director. Let's hope the new people make a name for themselves with this movie though.

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9670
  • Karma: 221
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2011, 03:56:18 PM »
I love how the backlash over the factual incongruities between the manga and this new adaptation is lukewarm at best (hell, there's been more of a backlash against that backlash), but there's no end to the bitching over the subjective look and quality of the ANIME! itself. Though one culprit is becoming especially obnoxious:

Urghh...
Just what in the hell were Miura and Hakusensha thinking, entrusting an animated adaptation of a best-selling epic manga masterpiece like Berserk to the hands of  Studio 4°C, an obscure little league animation studio that was founded by a couple of Studio Ghibli rejects, has no renowned anime series to its credit, and whose sole notable production achievement has been of a few  Animatrix short films, from over 7 years ago (which explains the Warner Bros. logo).
And now, they are applying the same tacky CGI animation onto Berserk..... shame. Shame.
Hmm... I'm more inclined to think that the "Asiatic" appearance of the characters (nevermind that they are  in story that is set in fictional fantasy version of medieval Europe, and thus they're supposed to look European) more likely has been an unintentional result of the stiff and lifeless CGI graphics, with its skewed and "droopy" facial features. And Guts, looking Mongoloid? Bah!! With the way the genius animators of Studio 4°C handled him, he looks more like a sea otter than a Hun   :troll:
BTW, anyone notice how Guts' scar on his nose is now shaped like a retarded peace sign? :ganishka:

Har. Har.

I only quoted all this so you could read this shit again through my eyes, which looks all too familiar...

Seeing what has been going on over the past several years with the anime industry as whole, we must realize that it probably wouldn't have made a difference which studio licensed to adapt Berserk.

Seems you haven't realized that, or forgot, but there's more...

Whether it's the almighty anime giants such as Toei Animation, Sunrise, OLM, Studio Pierrot, or the smaller and more obscure ones like Studio 4°C and Bee Train, this Berserk OVA would nevertheless still have come out CGI animated and looking like some cheap-ass PSP video game.


So yeah, we've heard this all before, BayJumper, and you're nobody to indict Miura or even defend Berserk's integrity; you're the one that advocated for FX boxes over his artwork. Eluvei's right, you're being neither constructive nor otherwise interesting, and you've made your point ad nausea already; which, unintentionally seems to be that you have more of an axe to grind with CGI and modern anime than you care about a faithful Berserk adaptation anyway. It's merely incidental to your cause. Well, I'm not going to allow you to continually poison the well of the first Berserk animation project in almost fifteen years over your vapid objections to anime nowadays. You made your point, so if you don't have another one, shut up.

I have a feeling that in a few years time, people on here will be talking about this project in just as disparaging a way as they do the original anime.

In a few years? I feel like it's already eclipsed the previous anime as far as complaining goes; it's the times we live in. All I ask is people be reasonable and constructive in their criticism, of which I actually think there should be more, and less mindless shit talk.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18399
  • Karma: 624
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2011, 05:06:39 PM »
Urghh...
Just what in the hell were Miura and Hakusensha thinking, entrusting an animated adaptation of a best-selling epic manga masterpiece like Berserk to the hands of  Studio 4°C, an obscure little league animation studio that was founded by a couple of Studio Ghibli rejects, has no renowned anime series to its credit, and whose sole notable production achievement has been of a few  Animatrix short films, from over 7 years ago (which explains the Warner Bros. logo).

You clearly have a very poor understanding of the animation industry in Japan. Furthermore, if you actually knew anything about Studio 4°C or Hakusensha, you'd realize they produced the Detroit Metal City OVAs and obviously have experience working together. Also, like Griff said, please stop pretending to have any legitimacy in judging anybody's (but especially Miura's) decisions. Your belief that the TV series' staff was from "almighty anime giants" on par with Toei Animation and your apparent wish for them to be brought back so that the movie could be done the "good old way" ("Urghh" indeed) are so dumb it's hard to believe you're even being serious. If you have to complain about something (and there sure is reason to), do so in a constructive manner instead of acting like the TV series was an example to follow (which it definitely wasn't).

And now, they are applying the same tacky CGI animation onto Berserk..... shame. Shame.

You know what's a shame to me? Your posts littering this forum. It's been going on for far too long, really. And what's this doing here? This thread is for news about the animation project, not for grossly misguided, erroneous, rude diatribes from ignoramuses like yourself. You keep this up any longer and I'm deleting your account.

is it just me or do Zodd's horns crisscross? I think it might be an Optical illusion.

Nah, they're messed up in that scene. Not sure how it was done but it's as if they go through various states of deformation as Zodd himself moves around.

How do you know this?

It was mentioned a while back, and can be plainly seen in the footage anyway.

Offline Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9670
  • Karma: 221
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2011, 05:32:00 PM »
And what's this doing here? This thread is for news about the animation project, not for grossly misguided, erroneous, rude diatribes from ignoramuses like yourself.

Yeah, that makes this especially egregious, so I'm moving this discussion to the thread already set aside for it.

Offline kaimera

Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2011, 10:13:33 PM »
I'll second Griffith and Aazealh statements. I just want to add some little spices to it. That Studio 4°C is indeed capable of superb animation can be seen in Spriggan. Just watch this 2 minutes of heavenly animation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYuaUmfuEJc . I can understand criticism on CGI, since i am a bit allergic to it too, but this is just senseless ranting. I'll expect good things by seeing the trailer. By the way, i thought the outcome of the animation with cgi would be worse and the first test-footage trailer proved me wrong. Even though you see the weaknesses, or yet limitations:  Guts armor, the big fighting scene or the alienation between the fore- and background, which is mostly in animation not that noticeable but in screencaps. Anyways since this is somehow test-footage i'm expecting at least good things, that this won't be a hand-drawn watercolor ghibli dream is for sure, but i never expected that.
Ah and btw, too cool you down, just look at what the involved staff did so far. Nothing outstanding, but pretty solid. What i consider important is the screenplay, and the guy (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=26763) that is in charge of that seems pretty good and capable of serious stuff as well (Planetes).
And i just want to say, stop your over-active criticism till the first teaser arrives and you watched it. Because i want to look forward to the movie and then finally shed tears over falling in love with Casca again! :)

Offline Nomad

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1629
  • Karma: 4
  • Gender: Male
  • "Bring the light of day"
Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2011, 04:52:19 AM »



And now, they are applying the same tacky CGI animation onto Berserk..... shame. Shame.

Ironically enough, this new Thundercats series has been one of the best quality animated series to hit american television yet and has been praised by fans.  Hell... I even watch it.  

As I was explaining to Aaz (and forgive me if anyone had already mentioned this before), I look forward to see what each character from Berserk will perform motion wise.  The closest glimpse we ever got was the the Dreamcast and PS2 game.  Off course I am  referring to the BENEFIT of computer animation.  How fast can Guts swing?  Anyone?.  

Offline Tsundere

Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2012, 09:58:48 PM »
is the movie doing well or not.?

When you look back at past anime seasons you have to realize that a lot of anime today is aimed directly at japanese otaku. Hence the moe, ecchi and otaku humour shows sell in Japan while heavy action/or dark fantasy shows and movies flop regularly. The genere is pretty popular outside of Japan though, so I don't think there is need to worry about the continuation of the project at this point, even if the movie wouldn't do great at the japanese box office.

eg. Hellsing TV show wasn't popular in Japan but due huge popularity and demand for closer adaption outside of Japan we now got the OVA

Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | reviews

Offline mazinken

Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2012, 11:23:54 PM »
When you look back at past anime seasons you have to realize that a lot of anime today is aimed directly at japanese otaku. Hence the moe, ecchi and otaku humour shows sell in Japan while heavy action/or dark fantasy shows and movies flop regularly. The genere is pretty popular outside of Japan though, so I don't think there is need to worry about the continuation of the project at this point, even if the movie wouldn't do great at the japanese box office.

eg. Hellsing TV show wasn't popular in Japan but due huge popularity and demand for closer adaption outside of Japan we now got the OVA

Are you implying that Japanese people have no taste for anything than pervert shows? Like any other country in the world they have people with different taste's. In Japan Otaku's are looked by negative eyes and they are in the minority so it is disrespectful to look at Japanese people like they are bunch of Otaku's.

Offline Tsundere

Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2012, 12:34:27 AM »
I didn't imply any of that! Makes me wonder if my post was really that disrespectful or you're just reading into it?

Quote
Are you implying that Japanese people have no taste for anything than pervert shows?

Ok, allthough I mentioned ecchi, I also gave 2 other examples which don't relate to perversion.

Quote
In Japan Otaku's are looked by negative eyes and they are in the minority so it is disrespectful to look at Japanese people like they are bunch of Otaku's.

To begin with, while manga is big in Japan anime is pretty niche (with exceptions). So if I talk about anime-watchers I only mean a bunch of people in the first place, not the entirety of the Japanese population. There is mainstream-anime but the majority of late-night anime is aimed at core buyers which are otaku. The studios want to sell their blurays so they produce shows their buyers would like. They throw in otaku jokes, references to other anime or fanservice normal watchers won't even get. The result is a pretty closed-in industry which is kept alive by fan demand. Wether Berserk should be considered mainstream or niche ... I'm not sure. It's probably inbetween. Berserk has a huge fanbase but manga readers aren't necessarily anime-watchers. All I basically wanted to say in my original post is that action/or dark fantasy shows don't sell that well with otaku and I'm not suprised the movie isn't doing that well in Japan so far because it wasn't promoted enough to reach the casual watcher.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 01:18:19 AM by SKplag »

Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | reviews

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15856
  • Karma: 463
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2012, 02:35:16 AM »
Are you implying that Japanese people have no taste for anything than pervert shows? Like any other country in the world they have people with different taste's. In Japan Otaku's are looked by negative eyes and they are in the minority so it is disrespectful to look at Japanese people like they are bunch of Otaku's.
No, that's not what he was talking about. He's describing the cultural shift towards what's referred to as "moe" anime and manga—the cutesy shit that clogs and drives the market more than adult series these days.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline mazinken

Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2012, 05:35:40 AM »
SKplag in your first post you wrote that action/or dark fantasy shows and movies flop regularly in Japan while the other shows that you mentioned are the only success.

Hence the moe, ecchi and otaku humour shows sell in Japan while heavy action/or dark fantasy shows and movies flop regularly.

Now that to me looks like you are generalizing about what the market wants. If there are no demands for other genre  you want see them produced in the first place regardless mainstream or niche they are all anime.

"moe" anime and manga—the cutesy shit
:ubik:

Offline CCS

Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2012, 07:31:10 PM »
Are you implying that Japanese people have no taste for anything than pervert shows? Like any other country in the world they have people with different taste's. In Japan Otaku's are looked by negative eyes and they are in the minority so it is disrespectful to look at Japanese people like they are bunch of Otaku's.

The Japanese aren't a bunch of Otaku's but it's pretty clear that recent seasons shows pander to otakus. And the ones that do sell the most (Bakemongatari, etc.) So yeah, in my opinion anime fans in japan right now have seriously shitty taste.
Thankfully there's still some shows and movies with integrity, but those are few and far between.

Offline Dar Klink

  • Falconian
  • Of the Vortex
  • *****
  • Posts: 1122
  • Karma: 28
  • Gender: Male
  • Last Guardian when? - CyberKlink 20XX before dying
Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2012, 01:14:45 AM »
The Japanese aren't a bunch of Otaku's but it's pretty clear that recent seasons shows pander to otakus. And the ones that do sell the most (Bakemongatari, etc.) So yeah, in my opinion anime fans in japan right now have seriously shitty taste.
Thankfully there's still some shows and movies with integrity, but those are few and far between.

Although this isn't the time or place for this conversation, I think that you've got a bit of the cherry-pickers affliction going on. If you take a look at anime by the year it was released(or any media really... :schnoz: ). You'll see that the good stuff is few and far between the better selling pandering stuff. Anime always had sex appeal and cute girls as a selling point, from the 80's til now, you just happened to watch the better and more "mature" shows as you grew up. Of course there are trends, such as the mecha boom, the light novel adaptation boom, and all of that to take into consideration, but yeah, take a look at the Big Bang Theory which gets higher ratings than stuff like Community or Arrested Development did while it aired, it's the same shit. Berserk is sadly in that strange area between "mainstream" and being sold to late night anime watching otaku which is always a gamble. In any case, we should make a new thread for this more general anime talk instead of clogging up this thread with it because of an offhand comment.

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15856
  • Karma: 463
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2012, 02:05:09 AM »
Anime always had sex appeal and cute girls as a selling point, from the 80's til now, you just happened to watch the better and more "mature" shows as you grew up. Of course there are trends, such as the mecha boom, the light novel adaptation boom, and all of that to take into consideration, but yeah, take a look at the Big Bang Theory which gets higher ratings than stuff like Community or Arrested Development did while it aired, it's the same shit. Berserk is sadly in that strange area between "mainstream" and being sold to late night anime watching otaku which is always a gamble. In any case, we should make a new thread for this more general anime talk instead of clogging up this thread with it because of an offhand comment.
I'm not  100% sure I get your point, but I do think that "moe" is a dangerous trend. It's put the anime industry in a dark, dark place. To me it's like a scorched earth policy that'll leave long-term consequences on the industry hereafter.

I certainly don't believe 1up.com is an authority on the subject, but I thought this was at least an informative article on the spread of "moe" and what it means for Japanese game development. The same information is useful for understanding how the trend affects the anime industry.

http://www.1up.com/features/japanese-games-breaking-west
Quote
Moe describes the emotions that otaku feel upon seeing, thinking of, or interacting with a certain kind of character. Depending on the person, this character may or may not fit the little girl image that western game critics have come to associate with the word. It may be used by female anime, manga, or game fans that enjoy "Boys Love" media which feature homosexual pairings between popular characters for example.
Quote
...the problem facing fans of Japanese games outside of the country is that the tastes of Japanese gamers are diverging from the rest of the world, thus limiting the commercial appeal of even the biggest titles in Japan. The specialized habits of Japanese adult gamers have left the console space in the country to otaku and their moe. Meanwhile, the Japanese consumers are perfectly content with this state of affairs, because as far as many are concerned they're not missing out on anything.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18399
  • Karma: 624
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2012, 07:58:01 AM »
Well I for one do get Dar Klink's point and I agree with him.

Remember that link I posted of the best selling animated movies in Japan in 2011? Here are the top ones:

Kokuriko-Zaka Kara
Pokémon the Movie: White - Victini and Zekrom
Gantz
Detective Conan: Quarter of Silence
Gantz: Perfect Answer
Doraemon: Shin Nobita to Tetsujin Heidan - Habatake Tenshi-tachi


This in itself completely disproves the assertion that sparked this discussion. But beyond that I don't think the prevalence of "Moe" during the last few years is some sort of dramatic death of animation in Japan. It's just a trend, like there were other trends before it. Back in my day, people were outraged at Japanese animation's "ultraviolence" (referring to shows like Hokuto no Ken, Saint Seiya or even Dragon Ball Z) and what this would do to the kids watching it.

And yet there was also that "sexy" aspect that people didn't mind as much but that was clearly very present (City Hunter, Cat's Eye, Dirty Pair, etc.). The "Moe" trend is yet another thing (reminds me of discussions about the meaning of "kawaii" from 15 years ago), but I can't say I find it worse than the "Harem" genre for example. And meanwhile you have "typical" shounen series like One Piece, Naruto or Bleach that are still extremely popular.

As for video games, the new IP that's most popular in Japan would have to be Monster Hunter, and if anything it's a throwback to the oldschool hardcore design of the 80s. A kind of game, like the Demon's Souls/Dark Souls series, where skill is everything and you have to learn the game's rules in order to truly appreciate it.

I've read that 1up article and I don't find it pertinent. I can't agree with the sort of simplistic pseudo-analyses that have been floating around the web for ages regarding the differences between the Japanese and Western audience for video games. For one thing, when they say that Japanese games are still as good as ever, they're deluding themselves. A lot of big Japanese companies haven't been releasing titles as good as they used to (Square Enix, Konami, Sega).

They're also comparing cheap PC games made with zero budget (indie games, basically) to actual "serious" mainstream titles, which I find ridiculous. Lastly, taking a game that I imagine most people would think can only appeal to Japanese people: The Idolm@ster 2. Turns out it's actually a pretty good game in its own regard, a hybrid between a management game, a rhythm game and a graphic adventure. And it's built on the concept of those TV shows like "American Idol" that are popular all around the world. In the end it's no less appealing to me than a game like "Just Dance 2" that is a huge success in the West.

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 15856
  • Karma: 463
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: Berserk and the state of the anime industry
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2012, 01:37:54 PM »
Regarding that 1up story, I was just using it to provide context for what "moe" is and the effect it has (or doesn't have) on anime and manga industries in Japan. I don't necessarily stand behind it 100%, like I said. I think the article still left the phenomena poorly defined.

I'm really a bad person to engage in this argument, so I'll concede to Dark's knowledge of the subject. I have no experiential knowledge of the trend or anime in the last 10 years, so my primary source of inspiration are these shitty articles.

If "moe" turns out to be a trend that doesn't damage other series in its wake, I'll be happy.

:femto: :slan: :ubik: