Author Topic: Adonis...collateral damage?  (Read 3659 times)

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Offline Hot Chic

Adonis...collateral damage?
« on: May 16, 2014, 08:52:42 PM »
I was just reading the manga version of this and I was just wondering, when Griffith sent Guts to kill Julius did Griffith intend for him to be killed too along with his father or was Adonis trully just collateral damage? Griffith wanted Julius out of the way but did include his son as well, I know it was not offical but I think Julius intended for Adonis to marry Charlotte when he was older and Griffith was aiming to put himself as her suiter. So I was wondering did Griffith some how factor in Guts tendacies that he might have been killed as well? I mean Guts is headrly mister stealth guy. I assumed the reason Griffith sent Guts to kill Julius (instead of someone more nimble and stealth like) because he trusted him the most...but did he have an ulterior motive that Guts would probably kill anything that got in his way as well?

Offline Mammon

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Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2014, 09:47:39 PM »
You got that idea from the amazing "official Berserk wiki" didn't you?  :serpico:

Online Walter

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Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2014, 10:29:14 PM »
No, Griffith couldn't have known Adonis would have been assassinated as well. He wasn't even mentioned in his briefing to Guts. It simply worked out in Griffith's favor, as always. There's a slow reveal of his evil smile upon hearing the news of Adonis. He was clearly surprised by that extra development.

I also think it was beyond Griffith at that moment to have intended such a thing, but all the better for him that he didn't order it.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2014, 10:32:56 PM »
It was a "lucky" happenstance.

Offline Patou244

Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2014, 05:02:26 PM »
I think Griffith planning Adonis's assassination  along with his father would make him appear way too evil and heartless then what Miura was intending for his character. There is no way he could have known no matter how good a tactician Griffith is. Adonis's death was linked into Guts personal drama not Griffith's.

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2014, 07:21:13 PM »
I think Griffith planning Adonis's assassination  along with his father would make him appear way too evil and heartless then what Miura was intending for his character.

That's not really the point though. We do know how Griffith reacted to the news of Adonis' death, and it does tell the reader something about his personality. But that's not something he could have conceivably planned in advance. Furthermore, with Julius out of the way and in the event of marrying Charlotte, Adonis' life or death would have been of no consequence to Griffith.

Offline Hot Chic

Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2014, 08:43:49 PM »
You got that idea from the amazing "official Berserk wiki" didn't you?  :serpico:

no I didn't I thought of this on my own when I read the manga recently. And by your attitude on the site I am guessing that wiki is held with quit a bit of disdain around here?

as for the topic, I always imagined that Guts was sent instead of someone more appropiate (someone more stealthy) because of his habit of slautering everything in sight. Also (and I am going by the anime translation here) Griffith mentioned that he always considered his tendencies when he made his plans.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2014, 08:54:50 PM »
as for the topic, I always imagined that Guts was sent instead of someone more appropiate (someone more stealthy) because of his habit of slautering everything in sight.

Guts was sent because he was the most capable person Griffith knew and the only one he trusted for the job, not to mention the fact someone else might have refused the task. Your comment here denotes a pretty serious lack of understanding of the characters involved, notably Guts.

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2014, 09:37:01 PM »
no I didn't I thought of this on my own when I read the manga recently. And by your attitude on the site I am guessing that wiki is held with quit a bit of disdain around here?

To answer this, typically wikis are a great way to spread misinformation. Most all of the Berserk wikis are pretty serious offenders whether it's spelling (I would put an example here, but the website corrects to the proper spelling), or misinterpretation of translations, meanings, (fate vs. causality; chapter vs. episode), etc. Perhaps they've gotten better over the years, but personally, I don't trust most/any place outside of SK.net

Offline Hot Chic

Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2014, 10:49:24 PM »
Quote
Your comment here denotes a pretty serious lack of understanding of the characters involved, notably Guts

thats a little unfair  :sad:  I know that Guts is more than that but at the same time he does have penchant to charge and cut down his enemies. I was just thinking of how he ran up the stairwell of the dungeon rescuing Griffith and hacked his way though the gaurds, or how he killed 100 men by himself. My point was that Griffith sent him when he knew he is power house of a fighter rather than a stealth one like Judo. But you made a good point that he trusted Guts more.

Online Walter

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Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2014, 01:06:17 AM »
I know that Guts is more than that but at the same time he does have penchant to charge and cut down his enemies. I was just thinking of how he ran up the stairwell of the dungeon rescuing Griffith and hacked his way though the gaurds, or how he killed 100 men by himself. My point was that Griffith sent him when he knew he is power house of a fighter rather than a stealth one like Judo. But you made a good point that he trusted Guts more.

You're thinking way too hard on this one. If you run with your notion a little further, I think you'll see why it's farfetched.

By not telling Guts anything about Adonis and sending him in explicitly to kill Julius, while secretly knowing he'd take out everyone in the vicinity, do you think Griffith also planned for the lighting being inadequate in the doorway of Julius' chamber? Because that's why Guts kills Adonis... It's "luck" that it ended that way.
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Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2014, 02:23:07 AM »
By not telling Guts anything about Adonis and sending him in explicitly to kill Julius, while secretly knowing he'd take out everyone in the vicinity, do you think Griffith also planned for the lighting being inadequate in the doorway of Julius' chamber? Because that's why Guts kills Adonis... It's "luck" that it ended that way.

Or causality...

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Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2014, 03:58:38 AM »
Or causality...

Obviously. Hence my quotation marks.
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Offline Doc

Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2014, 12:05:42 PM »
I'm more interested in Griffith's perception of Guts after that little event. As far as I can remember, he never found out that Adonis' death was accidental. In his conceit, he must have assumed that Guts was simply tying up loose ends.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2014, 12:13:33 PM »
thats a little unfair  :sad:  I know that Guts is more than that but at the same time he does have penchant to charge and cut down his enemies.

He does that on the battlefield. That's not the approach he took when he killed Julius, so your comment is unwarranted.

I was just thinking of how he ran up the stairwell of the dungeon rescuing Griffith and hacked his way though the gaurds, or how he killed 100 men by himself.

See above. He ran up the dungeon cutting down the guards once they had been found out. It was the best possible reaction at the time.

My point was that Griffith sent him when he knew he is power house of a fighter rather than a stealth one like Judo.

Judo was not a particularly "stealthy" fighter. He used throwing knives, but that doesn't make him an assassin (as opposed to a member of the Bakiraka clan, for example). Had he been in charge of that mission, nothing guarantees it would have gone down any better. Adonis' witnessing of the scene was accidental and couldn't have possibly been expected. Guts' fighting prowess and quick thinking are what saved him then, and Judo couldn't have pulled that off.

Offline Heavenly Maiden

Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2014, 02:47:52 PM »
hm, hypothetical question, if the lighting had been adequate in Julius's chamber  and he had seen Adonis, how would Guts have handled that? I'm pretty sure Adonis saw his face which meant he could have identified him later as his father's killer. And even if the lighting had not been good enough for Adonis to make out Guts features he could have identified him still by his size and and other features.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Adonis...collateral damage?
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2014, 04:02:09 PM »
hm, hypothetical question, if the lighting had been adequate in Julius's chamber  and he had seen Adonis, how would Guts have handled that?

Hard to say. He could have escaped through the window he had entered, but that would have made him possibly recognizable. Might have meant having to run away. There are a lot of possibilities, but it doesn't really matter. It happened the way it did.

I'm pretty sure Adonis saw his face which meant he could have identified him later as his father's killer. And even if the lighting had not been good enough for Adonis to make out Guts features he could have identified him still by his size and and other features.

I don't think there's much doubt that Adonis saw Guts' face, though it was from a distance and the room was dark. As for identifying him by his "size and other features", that doesn't seem very likely. Some soldiers saw his silhouette during his escape and he wasn't found out, so there's no reason to believe it would have been otherwise with Adonis. Wyndham was a big place and tall guys or big swords must have not been hard to find, especially if they didn't look for them and were instead focusing on a foreign assassin.