Author Topic: Episode 304  (Read 60570 times)

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #200 on: May 31, 2009, 12:18:24 AM »
Again, I'm going from the Dark Horse releases but Skull Knight refers to himself and 'others of our kind' as a reflection of the moonlight on the water, but points out that the brand puts Guts and Casca halfway between worlds and that he might just be a fish who is able to leap out of the water.

SK referring to himself and "others of his kind"? Honestly I think you need to quote the whole dialogue accurately here because half-sentences are just going to be confusing, and there are errors in what you're saying.

To me, that says that Skully sees Guts as more outside of the normal workings of the world, perhaps on a level that not even he is on.

Well that's completely wrong, as I already told you. Hell, we don't even know whether SK was branded or not at some point.

In my original post, I had assumed that Skull Knight and Guts were more or less on the same level, perhaps less predictable than most others.

It's not really a matter of predictability though. At least not like the way Femto expected SK to show up because he always does show up in such situations.

From the sounds of things (And as proven by the Eclipse and this episode), Skull Knight very well may have tried this sort of intervention more than we've seen.

SK has been opposing the God Hand for a thousand years. 'Nuff said.

(junction of times whatever that means, it seems Skully isn't sure either)

I believe SK knows what it means perfectly well.

Offline CowTip

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #201 on: May 31, 2009, 12:39:47 AM »
The specific text Skull Knight says is: "We already subsist within the current of causality. We who exist beyond the physical are still merely shadows on the water (I see now what you're saying, he is speaking of himself and Guts here)." At this point, Guts makes his proclamation that he carried himself this far and that he got out of the eclipse with Skull Knight's help and his determination to save Casca 'with my own strength'.

Skull Knight says: "Hmm...." turns to leave and responds: "Though minute, singular details certainly can occur at the time junction point that even they can't predict. I will in turn gamble everything on that point..... Furthermore, that brand carved into you, it may be of unanticipated aid. That is, the borderline between the physical and astral worlds. It's merely a half step, but you are outside the reason of the world. (I assumed this to be a reference to causality, I suppose now that he could maybe just mean physical rules like how normal people can't necessarily see fairies etc.) Maybe you aren't a shadow on the water, but instead a fish that breaches the water's surface." That's the full quote from the Dark Horse release. I'm not claiming it as how the original text meant it to be, just that it seemed strange to me that Skull Knight would say that he's merely a reflection but that Guts might be able to be something more (Maybe he thinks this of himself?) If this is getting too off topic like you said earlier, I can indeed stop posting about it, just again, curiosity.

And another thing, and this isn't meant to be an argument, but rather a simple question; If Skull Knight knows what the junction of times is, why does he keeping making these attempts? Would the Eclipse and the Ganishka part be considered separate junctions? I guess I assumed there would be only one chance (though I'm not sure why).

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #202 on: May 31, 2009, 01:09:50 AM »
At this point, Guts makes his proclamation that he carried himself this far and that he got out of the eclipse with Skull Knight's help and his determination to save Casca 'with my own strength'.
Actually, Guts says that last time (at the eclipse), SK was the one to save them. But this time Guts will rescue Casca by his own strength. Which is of course, exactly what happens.

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It's merely a half step, but you are outside the reason of the world. (I assumed this to be a reference to causality, I suppose now that he could maybe just mean physical rules like how normal people can't necessarily see fairies etc.)
Yes, SK means the physical world's limitations don't apply to Guts in the same manner as "regular" humans because of his existence in the border between worlds.

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it seemed strange to me that Skull Knight would say that he's merely a reflection but that Guts might be able to be something more (Maybe he thinks this of himself?)
SK doesn't say anything about him being a reflection, at all. You're misunderstanding the line. The moon is the only thing being reflected in the analogy. And SK and Guts are both leaping fishes in this analogy. Check vol 13, Slan uses the same analogy to describe SK's interference in the Eclipse, just as in vol 18 SK uses it to refer to Guts in his plan to interfere with the reincarnation ceremony. They're on equal grounds by this analogy.

Quote
And another thing, and this isn't meant to be an argument, but rather a simple question; If Skull Knight knows what the junction of times is, why does he keeping making these attempts? Would the Eclipse and the Ganishka part be considered separate junctions? I guess I assumed there would be only one chance (though I'm not sure why).
I think I described it well in my post. It's just the critical moment when several threads of causality collide to create an effect. A good example would be of course the birth of Femto in 13, when SK appeared, the incarnation of Femto in vol 21 and of course, the moment in ep 303 when Femto was about to touch Ganishka. These are all critical moments where God Hand were involved, and SK showed up. These are all junction points in causality's web.

:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline CowTip

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #203 on: May 31, 2009, 01:24:13 AM »
Actually, Guts says that last time (at the eclipse), SK was the one to save them. But this time Guts will rescue Casca by his own strength. Which is of course, exactly what happens.

Sorry, I actually meant that, I just expressed it poorly with my sentence structure.

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SK doesn't say anything about him being a reflection, at all. You're misunderstanding the line. The moon is the only thing being reflected in the analogy. And SK and Guts are both leaping fishes in this analogy. Check vol 13, Slan uses the same analogy to describe SK's interference in the Eclipse, just as in vol 18 SK uses it to refer to Guts in his plan to interfere with the reincarnation ceremony. They're on equal grounds by this analogy.

I guess I thought Skull Knight was referring to himself more as a shadow, but pointing out what Slan said is indeed a good reference. I'm guessing that Skull Knight's pause before the jumping fish analogy was simply because Skull Knight always knew the potential was there for Guts to be more like himself, but that perhaps he wasn't sure of his determination and focus before that point. Guts says it himself, before that point, he was just swinging his sword around.

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I think I described it well in my post. It's just the critical moment when several threads of causality collide to create an effect. A good example would be of course the birth of Femto in 13, when SK appeared, the incarnation of Femto in vol 21 and of course, the moment in ep 303 when Femto was about to touch Ganishka. These are all critical moments where God Hand were involved, and SK showed up. These are all junction points in causality's web.

So yeah, you're saying that there's multiple points (or junctions in time) where there's a slight chance that Skully could do something. Again, I thought that there was only one, and there wasn't really any basis for it.

Hopefully I've got a decent enough idea about things now. Sorry if I was being a pest, but I appreciate the clear up.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #204 on: May 31, 2009, 01:53:16 AM »
Hopefully I've got a decent enough idea about things now. Sorry if I was being a pest, but I appreciate the clear up.
Not a problem I don't mind brushing up on complex shit like causality. And I understand you're new, but these are mostly things that have been covered dozens of times in the past. Next time if you have a question about something basic, just search for your answer or make a thread in an appropriate section. But Current Episodes discussion should be reserved for what it's named for.

Also, no need to respond to this post. Let's get back on 304.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #205 on: May 31, 2009, 08:21:30 AM »
Maybe you aren't a shadow on the water, but instead a fish that breaches the water's surface."
And SK and Guts are both leaping fishes in this analogy.

Sorry to be anal about this, but nothing is said about a jumping fish here. SK talks of a fish creating ripples in the water (actually illustrated earlier in their talk). Ripples that would distort the reflection of the moon on it, resulting in events happening differently. The moon shadow analogy and jumping fish analogy aren't perfectly compatible with each other, even though they're close in theme and meaning.

We already subsist within the current of causality. We who exist beyond the physical are still merely shadows on the water [...] it seemed strange to me that Skull Knight would say that he's merely a reflection but that Guts might be able to be something more (Maybe he thinks this of himself?)

That's why I asked you to quote every part specifically. I didn't remember whether DH had mistranslated some lines or not, but it's no surprise you were confused. The first sentence is "we are all within the flow of causality". The second one is "as long as we are in this world, we are nothing more than shadows on the water". The first part of the sentence is very important: as long as we are in this world. Not "we who exist beyond the physical". It's a really gross mistake and the resulting sentence makes no sense (it contradicts the rest of what he says). His statement refers to people in general and not just to him and Guts.

Guts exists beyond the physical world, even though it's by just a small step. That's why SK told him he could maybe do something. As for SK himself, he doesn't comment on it, but as Walter pointed out we've had plenty of occasions to see that he's not bound by the rules applying to the average Joe. Just looking at him is enough to realize it anyway.

So yeah, you're saying that there's multiple points (or junctions in time) where there's a slight chance that Skully could do something.

SK or Guts or a magic user like Flora.

Offline KazigluBey

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #206 on: May 31, 2009, 03:37:43 PM »
I already re-reading the whole thing from first book. I'm sure I've missed a lot.
Having 1001 mangas and animes that needs to be watched parallell with reading Berserk, I'm sure it will take more than a year.

Again, don't kill me, but I was sick of it all. Not that I'm not adult enough to accept a rape scene, but I think it was a bit exaggerated. I'm not a big fan of hentai, you know, not that I am categorising it as a one, but I think it's enough for a rape scene to be a lesser scene. I mean, man, it wasn't long before that, that Casca was about to be raped by Wyald. But, that is not an objective opinion offcourse.

It's in the Seinen category for a reason. If you think that is bad you should check out one of my favs Go Nagai, especially Violence Jack.

Besides there was a reason for Griffith's raping of Casca, it wasn't just for shock.
Now I ride with the mocking and friendly ghouls on the night wind
And play by day in the catacombs
I know that light is not for me, save that of the moon
Yet in my new wildness and freedom I welcome the bitterness of alienage
For I know always that I am an outsider...an outsider...stranger in this century...for a time
A stranger among those who are still...men

Offline Jaze1618

Re: Episode 304
« Reply #207 on: June 04, 2009, 05:18:39 PM »
There are three weeks in between releases this time because of a 5th Friday in May correct?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #208 on: June 04, 2009, 05:30:14 PM »
There are three weeks in between releases this time because of a 5th Friday in May correct?

Yes.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #209 on: June 04, 2009, 05:45:24 PM »
Hopefully by Tues.-Wed. we'll know at least a text summary of what happens in 305. I wouldn't anticipate anything before then though.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #210 on: June 04, 2009, 08:46:45 PM »
Think we'll see a preview image up on the Berserk Official Corner? :serpico:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #211 on: June 04, 2009, 09:09:52 PM »
Think we'll see a preview image up on the Berserk Official Corner? :serpico:

Well the site hasn't been updated in a long time, so I wouldn't count on it if I were you. That being said, we never know when they might decide to start livening it up again.

Offline Man With the 7 Brands

Re: Episode 304
« Reply #212 on: November 21, 2014, 02:42:01 AM »
First post ever!   :carcus:

So I'm kind of a new Berserk fan relatively speaking. Found and watched the 90's TV series and fell in love with it a while ago. Never truly have been an avid manga reader so it took me a while to get to there but about a month ago I decided to take the plunge and really start reading the Berserk manga simply because I was craving more Berserk and boy did I find what I was craving/looking for to the umpteenth power. Couldn't stop reading once I started and caught up in a couple of weeks. Needless to say Berserk has become not just one of my favorite anime or manga of all time but really one of my favorite stories of all time too.

More to the point, I was just a tad bit confused about the ending of the Millennium Hawk Arc/this chapter and was hoping someone could help enlighten me. I think I understand what happened but not necessarily why. I get that Skull Knight attacks Femto with his dimensional sword (I hear Sword of Resonance isn't the correct translation which is what I was accustomed to calling it  :farnese:) and Femto essentially manipulates the strike so that it hits Ganishka which in turn opens the floodgates and merges the Astral with the Ideal world (basically bringing about "Fantasia").

First off just wanted to throw out there I've only read through/caught up to Berserk once so far but I plan a reread very soon so apologies in advance if something really obvious went over my head. But I guess my main question is how was Ganishka's death/SK's strike able to trigger the merging of realms/worlds as it did?

Thanks in advance!

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #213 on: November 21, 2014, 01:01:17 PM »
Hi and welcome to the forum! :guts:

More to the point, I was just a tad bit confused about the ending of the Millennium Hawk Arc/this chapter and was hoping someone could help enlighten me.

It's the Millennium Falcon arc (it's a Star Wars pun). The chapter that ended with the arc is the Chapter of Falconia, and this thread is about episode 304. Just so we're clear about the terminology. :slan:

I get that Skull Knight attacks Femto with his dimensional sword (I hear Sword of Resonance isn't the correct translation which is what I was accustomed to calling it  :farnese:)

You can just call it a "beherit sword", which is essentially what it is. "Sword of Resonance" is indeed a mistranslation.

And since you're a big fan of Berserk, I recommend you to buy the manga instead of just reading online scans. Not only will you find less translation mistakes in there, but you will be officially supporting Berserk's author. Dark Horse, the official editor of Berserk in the USA, sees so little demand for it that reprinting the older volumes is almost seen as a gamble for them. And yet there are more English-speaking fans than ever before! That's just not right. Without real support from the fans, the risk is that someday support will be dropped altogether. I think that would be very sad.

merges the Astral with the Ideal world (basically bringing about "Fantasia").

Actually the astral world merged with the corporeal world.

how was Ganishka's death/SK's strike able to trigger the merging of realms/worlds as it did?

After what happened in Vritannis, Ganishka knew he just couldn't stand against Griffith. Aside from his army of apostles, Griffith himself just was too strong, and had such an influence over Ganishka that he could bring him to his knees without effort. Ganishka had to become more powerful.

Desperate, with no contingency plan but to make a last stand, Ganishka decided to plunge himself into the "artificial beherit" he and Daiba had created. That contraption used captured apostles to create a portal to the depths of the astral world. They had been using it to create the Daka. So Ganishka went down the "vat", descended at the bottom of the astral world, and absorbed as much power as he could.

The experience changed him. He was transmuted again, not just an apostle anymore but something more. Much, much more. He had tried to gather enough power to match that of a member of the God Hand, and so his corporeal form (his physical body) wasn't enough for it. If you'll remember, members of the God Hand cannot normally materialize themselves in the corporeal world. That's because they have way too much power. When Femto came into the world, incarnated into a new Griffith, it was a "once in a thousand years" event that had likely been carefully planned. Ganishka's self-made method ended up with him having that gigantic body, to contain an equally gigantic power. But beyond his body, Ganishka himself couldn't quite handle all that power. He became half mad.

Anyway, for all his efforts, he was still no match for a member of the God Hand. He had brought back a mind blowing amount of power, but Femto pacified him with ease. Then came the Skull Knight. Always ready to strike at every tenuous opportunity. So much so that this time his attempt was expected. He struck, but Femto deflected his blade. And it wasn't just any blade. The Skull Knight had been collecting beherits for a long time, storing them inside his body. He thought the resulting weapon would be potent enough to deal with the God Hand.

But what does the sword do? It cuts through the layers of the world. It does so thanks of the beherits it uses. In volume 13, the beherits are called "Ikai e no Yobimizu". That roughly translates as "drops of primed water leading to another world". They come from the deepest depths of the astral world, the abyss (as we can see during the Eclipse). When they are activated, they create a link between the corporeal world and their place of origin. By coating his weapon with them, the Skull Knight turns it into a "Yobimizu no Tsurugi". A sword that can "prime a pump". Unfortunately the meaning of the expression does not translate well into English, which is why we just say "beherit sword".

And now, for your actual question: when SK's sword struck Ganishka, it cut right through him. But it didn't just pierce his skin like a normal sword would. It cut through him on the astral level. Like an overblown balloon that tears in the middle, Ganishka was ripped inside out. All of the vast power that he had brought back into the world and had tried to contain within himself then spilled over the corporeal world, covering it integrally in one big wave of light. Thus were the worlds merged.

It's worth noting that this had been the God Hand's plan all along. It went off without a hitch.

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #214 on: November 21, 2014, 10:15:39 PM »
First off just wanted to throw out there I've only read through/caught up to Berserk once so far but I plan a reread very soon so apologies in advance if something really obvious went over my head.

Not to dissuade you from actually reading the manga, but if you want a really nice detailed companion to your re-read, I suggest checking out the SkullKast lead by the forum admin. You can find all of them here. So far they've covered up through volume 12, and all of it is fantastic.