Author Topic: Episode 344  (Read 32349 times)

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TricksieThiefsie

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #150 on: July 03, 2016, 09:41:55 PM »
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It could, however, be tamed in a way that would make it more useful for Guts (Guts has already started this process).

This is probably very subjective but I think taming it would make it pretty much useless. Guts hasn't done anything really bad so far because of it. He wanted to kill his friends but in the end nothing really happened. I would like to see it actually going even further, not necessarily killing someone dear to him, just make Guts even more of a mad dog he used to be. Maybe it's me but I see Beast of Darkness as something separate, a being that feeds on Guts emotions and now he has more power than ever, it's just Guts who got also better at suspressing it. I wouldn't mind seeing Beast of Darkness being separated from Guts physically. That would be interesting to see how that would work but I doubt it will actually happen.



Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #151 on: July 03, 2016, 09:49:28 PM »
Well, I don't want to jump in on the quote-fest so I'll just make a small statement on the probability of Battlfield: Elfhelm.

It's not so much an assumption as an idea, and of course we're limited by what we know and what we don't. For all we know part of the point of breaking the seals is ultimately for the God Hand to attack and destroy Elfhelm (and whatever other advantages or benefits that may provide besides destroying one's opposition). Or not, I can also see Guts and co leaving on their own after going about their business, the suspense provided by the relativity of time and whatever trials they must pass to accomplish their goals (plus the inherent excitement and drama of Casca's potential recovery). But either way there's no end of credible scenarios Miura can build with this foundation, and a battle is seldom a bad guess. Of course I'd like to see something majorly consequential like that setting up a final showdown in Falconia, but we'll see how it unfolds. Miura usually surprises us by going even bigger, and more unique, than we expect.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #152 on: July 03, 2016, 09:55:35 PM »
This is probably very subjective but I think taming it would make it pretty much useless. Guts hasn't done anything really bad so far because of it. He wanted to kill his friends but in the end nothing really happened. I would like to see it actually going even further, not necessarily killing someone dear to him, just make Guts even more of a mad dog he used to be.

Well I think it really got quite near catastrophic a few times. I mean you don't usually survive being hit by the Dragon Slayer. While nothing bad's happened so far (and it did come very close), I think the danger of bad things happening has been a hindrance. If Guts can fully focus his anger on his enemies while his friends back him up, he'll be even more formidable than he has been so far. To me this is clearly the way things will go, as opposed to him having less control like what you're saying.

Maybe it's me but I see Beast of Darkness as something separate, a being that feeds on Guts emotions and now he has more power than ever, it's just Guts who got also better at suspressing it. I wouldn't mind seeing Beast of Darkness being separated from Guts physically. That would be interesting to see how that would work but I doubt it will actually happen.

This is actually a common misconception. The Beast of Darkness is a personification of Guts' dark side. What that means is that it's a literary device where a character embodies a concept. The Beast of Darkness is really just a part of Guts' mind, almost a figment of his imagination you could say. It's purely a mental, psychological construct. It represents all of his dark feelings: his fear, hatred, rage, guilt and even his drive for death. I guess you could say it also represents his trauma from the Eclipse. Just like Casca was rendered ill, Guts still deals to this day with the mental damage of what happened. In the episode where it speaks to him in his dreams, Miura even made it so the sentences in Japanese were like Guts was talking to himself.

So in short, the idea that it's a seperate being is wrong, and you'll never see it become its own thing physically, at least other than what we got in volume 16 (where specters took its form to taunt Guts). Maybe we'll see Guts fight it within his own mind or something, but that's it.

But either way there's no end of credible scenarios Miura can build with this foundation, and a battle is seldom a bad guess. Of course I'd like to see something majorly consequential like that setting up a final showdown in Falconia, but we'll see how it unfolds. Miura usually surprises us by going even bigger, and more unique, than we expect.

If there's one thing we can be sure about, it's that whatever way Miura chooses to take the story, it'll be awesome. :guts:

TricksieThiefsie

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #153 on: July 03, 2016, 10:00:29 PM »
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This is actually a common misconception. The Beast of Darkness is a personification of Guts' dark side. What that means is that it's a literary device where a character embodies a concept. The Beast of Darkness is really just a part of Guts' mind, almost a figment of his imagination you could say. It's purely a mental, psychological construct. It represents all of his dark feelings: his fear, hatred, rage, guilt and even his drive for death. I guess you could say it also represents his trauma from the Eclipse. Just like Casca was rendered ill, Guts still deals to this day with the mental damage of what happened. In the episode where it speaks to him in his dreams, Miura even made it so the sentences in Japanese were like Guts was talking to himself.

So in short, the idea that it's a seperate being is wrong, and you'll never see it become its own thing physically, at least other than what we got in volume 16 (where specters took its form to taunt Guts). Maybe we'll see Guts fight it within his own mind or something, but that's it.

I can agree with that but I still would like to see BoD being separate. This not a rare theme where a part of you becomes an independent being, just it's not the best for Berserk. Doesn't make that much sense really, I was speaking strictly about "what if" kind of stuff.

Offline -cause

Re: Episode 344
« Reply #154 on: July 05, 2016, 06:36:49 AM »
If the Elf King's method of retrieving Casca's mind is similar to what we saw when Schierke was searching for Guts' sanity (so to speak) when he lost control with the Berserk Armor a while back and Schierke saw glimpses of Guts' past memories, do you guys think that we'll get to see some memories, perhaps with prolonged detail, concerning Casca's early childhood? For example, perhaps some background on her parents and her five other siblings and their lives together before Casca left with the nobleman; of course, more than we are already aware of.

I doubt we'll get that sort of attention to something so minuscule but it would be a treat to get more info on her early life.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #155 on: July 05, 2016, 07:12:26 AM »
If the Elf King's method of retrieving Casca's mind is similar to what we saw when Schierke was searching for Guts' sanity (so to speak) when he lost control with the Berserk Armor a while back and Schierke saw glimpses of Guts' past memories, do you guys think that we'll get to see some memories, perhaps with prolonged detail, concerning Casca's early childhood? For example, perhaps some background on her parents and her five other siblings and their lives together before Casca left with the nobleman; of course, more than we are already aware of.

Someone asked that same question earlier and my answer was that I think we'll see a bunch of her memories, but probably not too many new and unknown events in detail. I think it will be more events we already know about, but from her perspective, and especially the Eclipse, since that's where he trauma originates. That being said, let's not forget the wording we were giving: gallery of dreams. That means we might see some more surreal experiences that don't reflect reality. For example Casca could have surrounded herself in a fantasy world where nothing ever went wrong, and she could be unwilling to leave it because of what lays at the edges of it: the nightmares of the Eclipse. The King (and Guts?) would then have to convince her to dispel that comforting illusion and face the truth of what happened.

Offline Johnny Apples

Re: Episode 344
« Reply #156 on: July 05, 2016, 10:05:59 AM »
For example Casca could have surrounded herself in a fantasy world where nothing ever went wrong, and she could be unwilling to leave it because of what lays at the edges of it: the nightmares of the Eclipse. The King (and Guts?) would then have to convince her to dispel that comforting illusion and face the truth of what happened.

If that's the case, then would it be correct to assume that The King and Guts will be doing with Casca something similar to what psychiatrists do in real life with the survivors of rape? 

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #157 on: July 05, 2016, 10:32:37 AM »
If that's the case, then would it be correct to assume that The King and Guts will be doing with Casca something similar to what psychiatrists do in real life with the survivors of rape?

Maybe in the broadest sense (a kind of cognitive therapy), but I would caution against trying to relate it to real life stuff. Berserk remains a fantasy story, and everything in it reflects that. The circumstances of Casca's trauma are exceptional, as is her condition, and as will be the means of healing her.

Offline Feeblecursedone

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #158 on: July 05, 2016, 10:59:39 AM »
It's gonna be so interesting to see Casca's reaction to her whereabouts as well as her dynamic with the new party. Especially her inner thoughts on Griffith and Eclipse. I'm not even a fan of her yet the prospect of her returning in full force is quite exciting. I guess its time for her trademark warrior haircut to come back.

I wonder if Isidro's pranks will remind her of how Carcus used to annoy her and mess with her, but this time as a sad memory. Not exactly the same thing but i guess close enough.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 11:19:25 AM by Feeblecursedone »

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #159 on: July 05, 2016, 01:14:38 PM »
I've talked about it before, so maybe you're thinking of that? Anyway I think it would be more interesting than a repeat of what happened at Flora's place. A supernatural attack might also befit the place itself more than monsters ready for slaughter, what with it being the Elf capital, plus being populated by magic users.

Maybe. I think it would be more interesting, too. My wife and I were discussing this scenario the other day, and we thought it would be cool having Ubik and/or Conrad show up, but what if Miura pulls something even more unexpected out of his hat: Void?

That's not a supposition, Ged says so in the episode. It's basically what Flora had told Schierke in volume 27 "I'll see you in your dreams." Maybe we'll finally get to see that. :ubik:

Gotcha. My bad. I hope so. That would be pretty sweet. :guts:

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #160 on: July 05, 2016, 02:17:00 PM »

Another thing that's been in the back of my head since we saw the Wicker Man is how different magic users may have been during Gaiseric's time compared to now. That's a pretty big deal too. Watching the anime's first episode made me think again about the haunted tree and how the sacrificial ritual associated with it might have actually been used by real magic users to harness power (as opposed to crazy cultists). What I'm guessing is that not all witches were focused on nature and elemental magic back then. There might have been two or more factions, and the ones using "blood magic" may have been at the root of what is now the axis of evil: the Idea of Evil, God Hand and apostles. I'm very eager to learn more about this.



Aaz, you be might on to something there with your idea of magic user doing weird ritual way back in the past. I was reading the part about the tree being hunted and in one panel we do see 3 "heretics" with long robes and hoods on their head and 2 of them seem to hold staff in their hands. I can't wait to learn more indeed. But it seems very plausible to me now that you mentioned it.

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #161 on: July 05, 2016, 03:06:23 PM »
Aaz, you be might on to something there with your idea of magic user doing weird ritual way back in the past. I was reading the part about the tree being hunted and in one panel we do see 3 "heretics" with long robes and hoods on their head and 2 of them seem to hold staff in their hands. I can't wait to learn more indeed. But it seems very plausible to me now that you mentioned it.

Yeah, it's a cool idea. We've talked about the potential behind the possessed tree before, and those mysterious robed figures, on the Vol 14 podcast. But I think the appearance of the Wicker Man, powered by tortured souls, gives additional credence to the notion that there was an older, different school of magic.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #162 on: July 05, 2016, 03:25:12 PM »
Yeah, it's a cool idea. We've talked about the potential behind the possessed tree before, and those mysterious robed figures, on the Vol 14 podcast. But I think the appearance of the Wicker Man, powered by tortured souls, gives additional credence to the notion that there was an older, different school of magic.

Indeed. This could even, at some point,be linked to the theory that the wise man was some kind of magic user and delve into the deep abyss to meet the idea and bring back the first beherit.

Probably not this exactly but something in the likes would be interesting.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #163 on: July 05, 2016, 03:27:25 PM »
This could even, at some point,be linked to the theory that the wise man was some kind of magic user

That's what I was hinting at in the post you quoted just above.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #164 on: July 05, 2016, 03:39:24 PM »
That's what I was hinting at in the post you quoted just above.

Oups sorry, I read to quickly the last line!

But these theories are so intriguing to me! It's incredible how well crafted Miura's work is. This is very much why I like hanging around here. I have to admit I would have not develop these theories by myself and since I don't have many friends reading Berserk I'm kinda alone to talk about it. Thank you very much Skullknight for existing and a bigger thank you for those who keep running it. (You know who you are)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 04:08:03 PM by jackson_hurley »

Offline Henry Spencer

Re: Episode 344
« Reply #165 on: July 05, 2016, 04:46:18 PM »
Not pertinent to this Episode but I think Rickert may perhaps craft some fine weapons for Silat to use in the future? At least as a way of saying 'thanks', right? Or simply upgrade the tools he already has, at least.

I do look forward to seeing Skull Knight's return. Wonder if he ever got over his last loss. Imagine Guts turning up to some other part of the island and seeing Skully already sat on a rock crying out "he can't keep getting away with this!" (regarding Griffith) Jesse from Breaking Bad style.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #166 on: July 05, 2016, 05:11:45 PM »
Not pertinent to this Episode but I think Rickert may perhaps craft some fine weapons for Silat to use in the future? At least as a way of saying 'thanks', right? Or simply upgrade the tools he already has, at least.

Indeed he might, and I look forward to seeing what they might look like. I said it back then but the alliance the best engineer around with the Bakiraka, a clan of fighters who've pushed their bodies at their maximum, is going to be extremely cool.

I do look forward to seeing Skull Knight's return. Wonder if he ever got over his last loss. Imagine Guts turning up to some other part of the island and seeing Skully already sat on a rock crying out "he can't keep getting away with this!" (regarding Griffith) Jesse from Breaking Bad style.

While he got played last time, I don't think it would be like him to dwell on it in such a manner. The question is more: what's the next move?

Offline Feeblecursedone

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #167 on: July 05, 2016, 09:37:49 PM »
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may have been at the root of what is now the axis of evil: the Idea of Evil, God Hand and apostles. I'm very eager to learn more about this.

Care to expand on that Aaz? Do you mean like, roots of religion and its general influence on people and state of mind that lead to birth of evil in humans?

Quite interesting in any case. I'll have to re-read that scene. I like occult stuff.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #168 on: July 05, 2016, 11:22:03 PM »
Care to expand on that Aaz? Do you mean like, roots of religion and its general influence on people and state of mind that lead to birth of evil in humans?

I don't think you can talk of a birth of evil in humans, and especially not related to religion or any such thing. Humans always had negative emotions inside them, that's part of mankind. There's love and hate, hope and despair, trust and fear, generosity and envy, empathy and disdain, forgiveness and anger, happiness and sadness, etc. Our understanding of the world of Berserk is that evil, or more precisely evil power, stems from there. The world consists of three realms: Corporeal, Astral and Ideal. In the realm of Ideas (in the Platonic sense of the word), human souls are divided according to their karma (good or bad) and merged together in a great ocean. That ocean is connected to mankind's collective consciousness. At some point in time, the part of that ocean (a giant vortex) that corresponds to negative emotions and that houses the evil souls gave birth to an entity called the Idea of Evil. That sentient being embodies humanity's dark side and acts as a god.

There is an episode that was prepublished in Young Animal but that Miura decided to not include in the volumes, because it revealed too much about the world too early on in the story, and he felt it would limit its growth. It would have been in volume 13 and is numbered episode 83. That episode features a talk between Griffith and the Idea of Evil during Griffith's transformation into Femto. In that episode (which isn't canon but hasn't been invalidated so far), the Idea of Evil explains to Griffith that it was brought into existence to give humans reasons for all the bad things that befell them and that they couldn't understand. It produces these reasons by controling the fate of men, and it does so in part through the manipulation of the principle of causality.

Anyway, what I was referring to was more the establishment of the God Hand. The God Hand had to start at some point. Did the Idea of Evil reach out to its first member, or did a man reach out to the Idea of Evil? We know there is a tale of a "wise man", said to have been imprisoned by Gaiseric, who prayed until "an angel descended". Obviously the tale is unreliable, but there is no doubt a core of truth to it. Now let's go back to evil for a moment. We know that the God Hand as well as the apostles are fueled by the evil magic power that I detailed above. We also know that the Wicker Man, a creation that was taboo in Skellig, was powered by human souls harvested through sacrifices.

So my reflexion is simple: what if in ancient times there was a subsection of magic users who tinkered with the power of the human soul and more specifically that evil side? What if there was a falling out between these magic users and those who were partisans of a strictly natural use of magic, based on elementals? What if the Emperor of the time launched a campaign of repression against these practices? He could have even turned on some former allies in the process, people who had helped him reach his status. Speculating some more: what if most magic had been outlawed or magic users had naturally migrated away from the giant capital erected by the emperor as a symbol of the power of man? That would have made it more vulnerable to those who delved into "evil magic".

One last thing, tangential but it's food for thought: why was the Astral World sealed away to begin with? Who did it, when, and why?

Offline -cause

Re: Episode 344
« Reply #169 on: July 06, 2016, 01:34:22 AM »
Ya, for all the reasons Aazealh and others gave, this past episode and the ones that follow truly are some of the most important of the entire series. I think it's safe to assume that the majority of big unkowns that fans having been wanting answers to for decades are about to be explained.

Probably one of the most exciting times to be caught up with the series.

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #170 on: July 06, 2016, 02:17:14 AM »
So my reflexion is simple: what if in ancient times there was a subsection of magic users who tinkered with the power of the human soul and more specifically that evil side? What if there was a falling out between these magic users and those who were partisans of a strictly natural use of magic, based on elementals? What if the Emperor of the time launched a campaign of repression against these practices? He could have even turned on some former allies in the process, people who had helped him reach his status. Speculating some more: what if most magic had been outlawed or magic users had naturally migrated away from the giant capital erected by the emperor as a symbol of the power of man? That would have made it more vulnerable to those who delved into "evil magic".

Wow! Hope you folks at home are sitting down, Aaz is taking a rare stab at the mystery of 1000 years ago!

I like many of your ideas here, and as you know, I gravitate to them too. That Gaiseric was all about the power of man seems grounded. But I can't imagine a scenario where a ban on magic by the Emperor like you've described would have so quickly affected the state of magic on the continent. I understand that you're trying to set up the scenario of a magical power vacuum, with the capital left defenseless for an all-out assault. But Miura's explanation for things as they currently are seems more feasible: The migration of magic away from the continent was a a gradual process, over centuries, as a direct result of the spread of the Holy See's doctrine.

That being said, such a ban could have been enforced internally, within the capital, and among his associates. I do very much like the notion of Gaiseric turning his back on his former associates. Perhaps using powerful dark magic powered by souls was all well and good while on the campaign to unify the continent, but after securing the capital and a time of peace emerged, he was prepared to bury it -- but not everyone was.

Another detail lingers, and it's significant for this whole puzzle — the wiseman was tortured, not just imprisoned or killed outright (and I'm with  you on this possibly being the genesis of the God Hand). I wonder what he could have done to incur the emperor's wrath in such a way...

Quote
One last thing, tangential but it's food for thought: why was the Astral World sealed away to begin with? Who did it, when, and why?

At question is whether the current state of the world is a wholly new order, or a return to how life was 1,000 years ago. Magic certainly held a more esteemed role on the continent back then, but were magical creatures always roaming around, prowling for human meat?

What I'm getting at is, I can't imagine it was magic users who erected such seals to maintain the integrity of the worlds. Afterall, it was the Holy See that assisted humanity in distancing itself from supernatural forces. I think those seals probably have existed forever, as a part of a natural balance, and Femto's campaign to extinguish them was intended to structurally weaken the barrier so that when he struck Ganishka, nothing could hinder the tidal wave of change — like a carefully planned demolition. Now the world is in true chaos, and my guess is that this state of affairs is more violent than 1,000 years ago.

I think it's safe to assume that the majority of big unkowns that fans having been wanting answers to for decades are about to be explained.

I'm excited too, but I really doubt we'll get an explanation of "the majority of big unknowns" in the next few episodes. I actually think Ged's explanation will be about phenomenon we weren't even privy to before now, but absolutely I'll eagerly accept a light shined on a few of the series' big mysteries.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 02:28:39 AM by Walter »
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Offline Kaladin

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #171 on: July 06, 2016, 03:04:03 AM »
when we do get a Gaiseric flashback, how long do you guys think it will be? and how long would you want it to be? a few episodes? a volume? multiple volumes? the longer the better in my opinion, would be pretty great if we get a really detailed flashback on the events that happened 1000 years ago. sk deserves it  :badbone:

Quote
Not pertinent to this Episode but I think Rickert may perhaps craft some fine weapons for Silat to use in the future? At least as a way of saying 'thanks', right? Or simply upgrade the tools he already has, at least.

that could definitely happen, he'll probably make some new equipment for guts as well, a present for when they meet again. it would also be pretty cool if he actually did some training with the bakiraka and learned some of their fighting techniques, if we do get a timeskip of 5-7 years, a lot could happen in that time frame.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #172 on: July 06, 2016, 09:16:34 AM »
I like many of your ideas here, and as you know, I gravitate to them too. That Gaiseric was all about the power of man seems grounded. But I can't imagine a scenario where a ban on magic by the Emperor like you've described would have so quickly affected the state of magic on the continent. I understand that you're trying to set up the scenario of a magical power vacuum, with the capital left defenseless for an all-out assault. But Miura's explanation for things as they currently are seems more feasible: The migration of magic away from the continent was a a gradual process, over centuries, as a direct result of the spread of the Holy See's doctrine.

I didn't mean continent-wide, just in the capital city itself. I don't think it's incompatible with a gradual disappearance in the wider world.

Perhaps using powerful dark magic powered by souls was all well and good while on the campaign to unify the continent, but after securing the capital and a time of peace emerged, he was prepared to bury it -- but not everyone was.

That's what I was hinting at, yes. There could also be another way to see it. Magic was difficult to use in the capital because of the extreme concentration of people, same as what we saw in Vritannis but on a much bigger scale. Elementals and such weren't found there. But a dedicated scholar found (or just focused on) a new type of power instead, and became fascinated by it. Did some gruesome rituals and experiments to harness it. Maybe even had a following within the city. That could have been what led the emperor to send him away, and to want to make him pay.

At question is whether the current state of the world is a wholly new order, or a return to how life was 1,000 years ago. Magic certainly held a more esteemed role on the continent back then, but were magical creatures always roaming around, prowling for human meat?

Yes, this is a central question. It could go both ways, but I like the idea that astral creatures already existed back then, but that magic was prelavent enough that they did not represent the same existential threat to mankind that they do today. It seems odd to me that it would have only been elves (who were confirmed to be more prevalent) and nothing more. The vision I have is that every village had its witch and they knew how to make sure trolls or goblins left them alone. It wasn't heaven on earth, but they could live and prosper well enough.

What I'm getting at is, I can't imagine it was magic users who erected such seals to maintain the integrity of the worlds. Afterall, it was the Holy See that assisted humanity in distancing itself from supernatural forces. I think those seals probably have existed forever, as a part of a natural balance

Given that the seals were apparently forests of spiritual trees, a natural origin seems most plausible. But let me speculate about the other possibility just for the sake of it. The Holy See rose, sure, but it didn't make dragons disappear. It just very gradually stirred people away from the use of magic, and together with time made them forget about what had been before. But just like Farnese's faith didn't shield her from Puck's antics (or from being possessed by specters), the Holy See itself couldn't have possibly made the entire Astral World disappear. So then there's two possibilities: either it never was like it is now to begin with, or the separation had another concomitant trigger. The seals fit that bill. And the fact they were trees mean they slowly grew and that could explain the gradual aspect. As the trees became stronger over hundreds of years, so did the seals, and the Astral Word faded away.

Now we're back to my question though: who did it and why? Well, maybe the Emperor of All Men wanted for his people to truly prosper. Maybe he felt that those roaming beasts you mentioned held mankind back from a greater future. He could have ordered the seals created (that presumes whoever helped him could travel all over the world though). Another possibility is that after the first member of the God Hand rose, magic users all around the world felt the great danger he posed. They erected the seals in an attempt to shield mankind (and the world) from this threat. To confine it. We can even imagine a battle taking place between magic users and the forces of evil that decimated a lot of them, and this being a last resort. Maybe that's why there aren't many adults in Skellig's Witch Village, because they went into the wider world to do their part. Going further, this opposition would also explain why the Holy See's temples are "often built on top of spirit shrines", basically replacing them, as Schierke revealed in volume 24. It's a systematic attempt to snuff out the use of magic from the world, most likely engineered by the God Hand.

Or maybe the strength of the seals simply has a natural ebb and flow, like a real forest where old trees will die and new ones regrow. That could explain it too. Obviously this is all high wire speculation, but I feel like there's more to those seals than having existed since time immemorial. If we look at volume 24 for example, Schierke explains that Flora's tree attainted its status because it had been worshipped by arboreal animists. That's why its astral self kept on existing even after its corporeal form died off. There's even a small text mentioning that such a tree could take a monstrous form under certain circumstances... a clear reference to the haunted tree from volume 14 to me.

By the way, was the tree Rochine had chosen as her lair a spirit tree? Sounds possible to me. Way to go, Guts! :puck:

Offline Feeblecursedone

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #173 on: July 06, 2016, 12:09:25 PM »
Damn. Once again, Berserk proves there's so many layers wrapped up in layers which are wrapped up in more layers! I just have to find time and re-read volume 14 and 24. This talk on World's background, soul powered dark magic and what not really hyped me up. Now I really want to see Void's backstory.

So if Void was the first scholar/sorcerer who experimented with souls, particulary evil ones, perhaps he's the one who came up with the sacrifical brand and beherits themselves. Maybe beherits are made from dead human souls as well, particulary ones filled with dark emotions? Maybe the reason why Beherits react the way they do when the time is right and ascension to apostlehood/godhandhood is about to begin because of the very material that is made of, entrapped souls reacting to a person's soul in distress, which then opens up a portal to God Hand, because of that human connection and connection to IOE.  and calling upon godhand ( well at least the technicals behind it ) .  Since corporeal world and ideal can't interact directly, it would make sense if the first member of God Hand created a medium for it.

Also, this has been bothering me for a while

Quote
who prayed until "an angel descended"

If Void was the first God Hand member, who's the angel? Maybe IOE had a way to establish contact with via an illusion, or through a vision and so it chose to present itself in a physical form.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 12:19:50 PM by Feeblecursedone »

Offline MrFlibble

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Re: Episode 344
« Reply #174 on: July 06, 2016, 12:32:16 PM »
I doubt there will be a Elfhelm war demon siege, if Griffith were going to attack Skellig he would have done it already, he has as much of a chance now than as he did before Falconia, in fact he's in a worse position to do so now since he has less apostles, with some being occupied providing safe passage for refugees. There might be a reason why he can't attack them directly, they might have some kind of anti demon barrier erected or apostles might be unable to fight toe to toe with mages. Or it could be that Griffith is unaware of their existence. Also a similar event has played out already, Flora provides safe refuge, apostles arrive and burn down the place, it would be repetitive to do the same thing again.



So if Void was the first scholar/sorcerer who experimented with souls, particulary evil ones, perhaps he's the one who came up with the sacrifical brand and beherits themselves. Maybe beherits are made from dead human souls as well, particulary ones filled with dark emotions?


The behirits come from the Idea of Evil, they form as droplets in the deep astral world and become stones in the physical world, the IOE uses the vortex of souls to transform Griffith into Femto, the Eclipse ceremony world was composed of souls, apostles are forged out of souls, and behirits that ascend from the vortex itself are likely created the same way.


If Void was the first God Hand member, who's the angel? Maybe IOE had a way to establish contact with via an illusion, or through a vision.




The angel was likely him, from an outsiders perspective, the Wiseman is tortured, and a spooky brain man appears. But it is the wise man transforming into Void, an angel "Made" by the idea to descend.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 07:49:08 PM by Wenliinvictus »