The Moonlight Boy

[The Count]

lol sorry but,

The boy has appeared and disappeared many times throughout the series, and it wasn't always represented that way. It's not his signature move or anything. Anyway, we do see specters appear or disappear at will, for example in volume 13 when Guts is fighting them while the Skull Knight watches, and suddenly they go away (to Casca).

Well, there's fading in and out, then there's teleporting. You said im grasping at straws, but you're here thinking the kid just asks the spirits politely not to devour his mom. You're trying so hard not to be wrong I lol'd.

Oh but I understand it perfectly, it's just not true. Nowhere in the manga is there ever any mention of such a ranking system, and there's no reason to believe anything like that exists.

It was a metaphor, is this all really going over your head? You dont think the God-Hand ranks a little higher than most demons, with the worship they get etc? You know what, dont think too hard on it, forget it.

Agreed!

"Agreed!"

I wont respond anymore, you may carry on good sir.

[Aazealh]

Well, there's fading in and out, then there's teleporting.

Dude, why do you keep talking about teleportation? Do we see the boy beaming up across vast distances or something? No. No we don't. We see him appear and we see him disappear. Please stop embarrassing yourself. Oh and in the example I mentioned, the specters disappear from one location and appear at the next one right away as far as we can tell. Where's the distinction?

you're here thinking the kid just asks the spirits politely not to devour his mom. You're trying so hard not to be wrong I lol'd.

Uh huh, I'm the one who's trying soooo hard here!

And yes, that's exactly what I said! He's asking them very politely, "pretty please with a cherry on top"! Not just staring them down, which like I already told you is hardly evidence that he controls them, much like the Skull Knight did not control the Slug Count and Rochine when he stared them down until they left in volume 10.

It was a metaphor, is this all really going over your head? You dont think the God-Hand ranks a little higher than most demons, with the worship they get etc? You know what, dont think too hard on it, forget it.

A metaphor? Are you sure that's the correct figure of speech? As for the God Hand, why yes, they do actually "rank" higher (a lot higher) than apostles ("most demons"? What?), most definitely so. One could even say that they rule over them, like some kind of royalty! However... wait for it... Nothing in the manga ever hinted in the slightest that the boy was related to the God Hand prior to the Incarnation. And like I told you before, there are many elements in the manga that directly contradict this strange notion you're clinging to.

So as a conclusion: no, the Demon Child didn't "rank" higher than apostles on an imaginary ranking board. There are just the members of the God Hand and the apostles, no "demi-members of the God Hand" that have a special "rank" because of their "God Hand genes".

[Delta Phi]

It's too bad I can't post an image

But you can!

(with the text),

The text you'd most likely include may not be entirely accurate (such as Dark Horse, or...the Hawks ), and most times the text, (such as in this case) isn't necessary, but you can include the proper translation in your post if you need to, and SK.net has the best translations around.

I know I corrected you on this, but I'd like to point out, there's nothing stopping you from screen capping, doing some editing, and uploading your images. Even someone with minimual MS Paint skills (like me) can do this. As a fan you should have these resources readily available to you.

Even still, if you don't want to go through that trouble, then at least take the time to get the episode, and, to maybe a lesser extent, the page numbers correct so that panels and examples can be seen. Most times this isn't an issue since topics are pretty easily find-able in the manga.

A little effort to support your claims goes a long way though.

[Skeleton]

Honestly I think your quarrell here is that i might have been right with Walter? Not to seem pretentious but after that post(maybe it was my very first post) I think the negative karma rolled in, and I wasn't sure what I did wrong, wondering if maybe the karma came from my modifying of my posts, but I think i get it now. That this forum, although im sure great people, intelligent people, is not too welcoming to newbies with their own thoughts

Perhaps I need but simply have you guys warm up to me, or maybe we'll never get along who knows

The great thing about good internet forums like SKnet is that the only thing you need to do to stop digging a deeper hole for yourself is to stop digging.  If you just cut your losses here and put some quality effort into your next post then it'll be like this train wreck never happened.

[Walter]

I had the (stupid)idea in one theory that maybe the boy was being projected by a nearby Griffith, kind of like those other spirits, Walt said "yea but casca can touch the boy, you can't touch the other spirits" I said "not true man, here, look at this, you can touch them"

and our minds = blown

I can't speak for everyone else, but my mind wasn't "blown" because the panel you referenced has no bearing on the argument you were making. While indeed you correctly referenced a panel showing what appears to be a spirit grazing the cheek of his loved one, I think you'll agree that it's fundamentally different from the interactions the boy has with his parents. Therefore, I didn't see the point in going further with that reasoning, since I think the facts are pretty self evident: the boy is not the same as the spirits that gather around Griffith. Those spirits are weightless and aren't affected by gravity. The boy is. Is that even necessary to point out?

Honestly I think your quarrell here is that i might have been right with Walter? Not to seem pretentious but after that post(maybe it was my very first post) I think the negative karma rolled in, and I wasn't sure what I did wrong, wondering if maybe the karma came from my modifying of my posts, but I think i get it now. That this forum, although im sure great people, intelligent people, is not too welcoming to newbies with their own thoughts

For the record, I never gave you negative karma. In fact, I've only ever given you +1 karma, because in general I like revisiting big speculations like these. Even when they get messy. I'm probably alone in that regard... Of course, there's no record of these things, so you'll have to take my word for that. But I haven't replied since several days ago because the last time I checked, you had removed several of the examples I would have replied to (the full moon being one of them). So, for my part, I was done.

[TripleJMaster3]

Hello Everyone,

This is my first time posting on this forum although I have visited it several times and find many of the discussions quite interesting. If I do break any of the rules please feel free to correct me, more specifically regarding the panels.

Now to the topic at hand. Aaz, thank you for bringing your theory to light. At first I must admit I believed it was a bit farfetched, basing such a theory on a silhouette of Zodd, which I had also noticed while reading. But than the more I thought about it the more it made sense. Now I do not support the idea that Griffith controls the boy or even has the ability to summon him especially since the child seems to have more control over Griffith, at least in certain situations such as when Griffith saved Casca. Also, perhaps this is a simplistic thought, but I see a strange similarity in the way Casca holds the moon child vs the way Griffith holds Casca.

Prior to the theory of Griffith and the moon child being one I was satisfied with Schierke's idea that the child was linked to the Elf King, which still very well could be the case. However, the parallel between the two is impossible to ignore. Either way one fact that can be stated is that the child has exposed a major weakness in the seemingly unstoppable Griffith. Certainly, this weakness will come in to play later on.

[Aazealh]

Hello Everyone,

This is my first time posting on this forum although I have visited it several times and find many of the discussions quite interesting.

Hey there, welcome to the forum!

Now to the topic at hand. Aaz, thank you for bringing your theory to light.

No problem, although it's been quite a while now... Time flies!

Now I do not support the idea that Griffith controls the boy or even has the ability to summon him especially since the child seems to have more control over Griffith, at least in certain situations such as when Griffith saved Casca.

Indeed, I don't believe Griffith controls the boy or anything of the sort. It's pretty clear he's got his own mind and his own agenda.

Also, perhaps this is a simplistic thought, but I see a strange similarity in the way Casca holds the moon child vs the way Griffith holds Casca.

I don't think there's any deep connexion there honestly.

Prior to the theory of Griffith and the moon child being one I was satisfied with Schierke's idea that the child was linked to the Elf King, which still very well could be the case.

Eh, I'd honestly bet whatever you want that Schierke's wrong about this. I think the overall evidence is pretty clear.

[TripleJMaster3]

Eh, I'd honestly bet whatever you want that Schierke's wrong about this. I think the overall evidence is pretty clear.

Overall evidence? Although you have brought forth quite a convincing theory. I dont think we could bet the barn that the witch didn't get it right. I mean sure the moon child looks like Guts and Casca, but Im pretty sure the Elf King, as powerful as he is said to be, could easily transform himself to resemble the two in an effort to appear less threatening while observing their actions. Also, it would also give a reason for why Zodd was present as Im sure Griffith will eventually have his eyes set on conquering the island so it is not out of the question for him to want to observe the Elf King's powers. This occurrence would also support the idea of Guts' child still being within Griffith if in fact the moon child and demon child are separate entities. At this point I would support either theory although I must admit yours would be far more interesting.

[Skeleton]

Overall evidence? Although you have brought forth quite a convincing theory. I dont think we could bet the barn that the witch didn't get it right. I mean sure the moon child looks like Guts and Casca, but Im pretty sure the Elf King, as powerful as he is said to be, could easily transform himself to resemble the two in an effort to appear less threatening while observing their actions. Also, it would also give a reason for why Zodd was present as Im sure Griffith will eventually have his eyes set on conquering the island so it is not out of the question for him to want to observe the Elf King's powers. This occurrence would also support the idea of Guts' child still being within Griffith if in fact the moon child and demon child are separate entities. At this point I would support either theory although I must admit yours would be far more interesting.

In episode 327 we're shown the luminous body of the Moonlight Boy helping Guts escape from the Sea God.  He has hair that is very similar to Griffith's hair.  If Schierke is right then the king is trying to make it appear as if there's a connection between the Moonlight Boy and Griffith.

[Walter]

Overall evidence? Although you have brought forth quite a convincing theory. I dont think we could bet the barn that the witch didn't get it right. I mean sure the moon child looks like Guts and Casca, but Im pretty sure the Elf King, as powerful as he is said to be, could easily transform himself to resemble the two in an effort to appear less threatening while observing their actions. Also, it would also give a reason for why Zodd was present as Im sure Griffith will eventually have his eyes set on conquering the island so it is not out of the question for him to want to observe the Elf King's powers. This occurrence would also support the idea of Guts' child still being within Griffith if in fact the moon child and demon child are separate entities. At this point I would support either theory although I must admit yours would be far more interesting.

There are several, heavy-handed implications of the boy being Guts and Casca's son that are strewn throughout the episode he is introduced in and beyond. Him clinging to Casca / Casca clinging to him (just like with the demon child, and SK prophesized in vol 14: "all children yearn for their parents"), Casca detecting and seeking it out (three distinct, similar times: Vol 22 on the Hill of Swords, Vol 28 on the beach, and Vol 36 as Guts was fighting slugs), the group commenting that Guts, Casca and the child look like a family, Guts reminiscing about his lost son for the first time in forever on the same night he appears. Beyond that, the fact that it sought out Guts in Vol 37 (and when projecting his body underwater, had hair that resembled Griffith's), the evidence for this particular connection is pretty strong.

Also, if it turns out to have been the Elf King all along, it sure will make that "family" scene pretty awkward. 

[Aazealh]

Overall evidence? Although you have brought forth quite a convincing theory. I dont think we could bet the barn that the witch didn't get it right.

Wanna bet?

Anyway, Skeleton and Walter made excellent points in my stead, so you already have your answer from their posts. So instead of elaborating further I'll just poke holes in the alternate explanations you've proposed.

I mean sure the moon child looks like Guts and Casca, but Im pretty sure the Elf King, as powerful as he is said to be, could easily transform himself to resemble the two in an effort to appear less threatening while observing their actions.

And why in the world would he do that? What's in it for him? Also, from a storytelling perspective, considering that the group is traveling a great distance specifically to meet him, it'd feel like a big waste of time. Apart from that, the boy has the interests of a young child. He wants to cuddle with his mother, he's curious about what his dad is doing, he gets fed, etc. Why would a millennia old being masquerade like that, appearing and disappearing out of the blue in a disruptive way, if he simply wanted to observe? There's a myriad of other, much better ways to do that, including those Schierke's used herself, like possessing a bird. And the boy hasn't just observed things either, he's taken an active part in events each time he was around.

Also, it would also give a reason for why Zodd was present as Im sure Griffith will eventually have his eyes set on conquering the island so it is not out of the question for him to want to observe the Elf King's powers. This occurrence would also support the idea of Guts' child still being within Griffith if in fact the moon child and demon child are separate entities. At this point I would support either theory although I must admit yours would be far more interesting.

There's no reason to think Griffith has his eyes specifically set on conquering Elfhelm at the moment. And if he did, why would he need to send Zodd on a covert mission to spy on the appearance of the boy on the beach and his meeting with Guts and the others? That's worthless information, and to have Zodd be there right at that time would imply knowing it would happen in advance, which would then make it pointless to have to send Zodd just to briefly see it...

[jackson_hurley]

I like the fact that Schierke is probably (mostly) wrong about that assumption. It's just shows to me how she is still in learning and doesn't know everything since she is already aware of a lot of things on how the world functions. Such a great story!

[Walter]

Regarding the enigmatic name ジャンアーニン in Episode 243's title, I've come to a new conclusion that I think is pretty solid, for once: Jñānin. It's the most convincing explanation thus far because of way the accents / diacritical marks are placed. It goes hand-in-hand with the way the katakana elongates the A sound. It seems like a perfect fit. It had eluded us for this long because of these pesky accents. We'd been close many times. Dark Horse even spells it out sans accent. But without those accents to inform us of how it was pronounced, it wasn't very convincing.

So what's it mean? It's the romanization of the Sanskrit word describing one endowed with superior knowledge — a holy person. The Bhagavad Gita references jñānin a number of times as enlightened ones closest to Bhagavan (God in human form), and the ones who know him better than any other being.

"Of the highest of the Bharatas, four types of pious persons render devotional service unto Me; the distressed, the seeker of knowledge, the desirers of wealth and men of wisdom (jnanin). Among them, the man of wisdom (jñānin) always engaged exclusively in devotional service is superior; since to the cultivator of wisdom I am extremely dear and he is dear to Me."

Another translation of this passage: "Among these four classes of Bhaktas, who are all noble, the Jñānin surpasseth all, for he is My very Self"

Sound familiar yet?

So, why a Sanskrit word? It is a little strange, but consider the context for this episode. It was a time of Kushan influence for the series, during which we see several Sanskrit words thrown around. Daiba calls Guts wearing the Berserk Armor "Kshatriya of Durga" and Serpico "Kshatriya of Vayu." Ganishka's transformed state is also referred to as "Shiva." So then it makes some sense that this supernatural entity is called a being with superior knowledge with a close connection to god (Griffith, who among many other names is the "Absolute One"). It's kind of neat, another culture's interpretation of these phenomenon.

Case closed...?

[IncantatioN]

That's a really good breakdown Walter and I think fits since Griffith's one of the five God (Bhagavan) Hand. And, makes me think - a Jnanin's one of the four bhaktas (a bhakt is a commonly used term to describe a devotee of anything, for instance desh bhakt means devotee of a country and so on), so I wonder what that sort of literal meaning impacts our understanding of the boy or it shouldn't be considered. The boy's so young and yet considered a Jnanin is fascinating.

Off topic - Sanskrit words were always fun to read in Berserk since I studied Sanskrit in school for 2 years and terms like Kshatriya (warrior) or Bhagavan/ Bhagwan (God) come up so often in the Hindi language. Sanskrit's the backbone for Hindi and pure sanskrit's hard to follow for a casual Hindi speaker, I had a hard time in my second year. Vayu literally means wind; the comparison to Shiva the destroyer was nice since Shiva was terrifying in that sort of mode; Durga mata, one of the many manifestations of Devi, is a goddess first summoned to battle demons or rakshas's as they're commonly called and ever since, has manifested in many battles (though she's not as destructive as her incarnation as Kali mata). Durga mata had a lion she rode, which gave her absolute command over her own power, determination and will. So I wonder if we'll get to see an extension of that where Guts is concerned.

[ryOtoha]

Durga mata had a lion she rode, which gave her absolute command over her own power, determination and will. So I wonder if we'll get to see an extension of that where Guts is concerned.

That's quite interesting.

With the consistency through his own form Miura gave to many classical elements, i think that's a really cool possibility. Something more complex than a simple destrier.

I would like a mecha please