ARGH!!!! Censorship!!!

[Mizar]

There's a credible argument to support the view that 'Guts' is a poor translation.

No, there isn't. Maybe you should consider taking some Japanese lessons first before criticizing other people's translations and making a fool out of yourself in here.

But anyway, changing the subject now, I must say it's an interesting interview you found there, I haven't seen this one before. Maybe it's a good idea if someone provides a full translation of that interview for the ones that don't understand a word of German? I'd do it, but since I'm not from Germany it will be somewhat difficult for me.

One of the things that caught my interest is that Miura mentions in this interview that he's an atheist and that he personally believes (like he portrays in the manga) that 'God' and the 'Devil' are merely products of the human mind. He also says that he only uses the words 'God' and 'Devil' in a metaphorical sense in his work, and that he doesn't want to limit the world of Berserk by actually introducing a real 'God' and/or 'Devil'. And that this was also the reason - and here comes the interesting part - why he didn't want to include 'Chapter 83' (the Lost Chapter) in the manga.....

Well, I always thought the lost chapter was left out because he thought it gave away too much of the story. So, judging from this new piece of information (for me it is at least), could it be possible that 'Idea' doesn't even really exist at all?

 

[Ravant]

People are free to translate anywhichway they want. But there are such things are good and bad translations.

OMG you are so right! I always thought Guts was stupid, but so is
G atts! So I always called him Gibraltar, cos it just SOUNDS better!

Like in Bebop Spike Spiegle sounds dumb and cliche, and it's close to Steven, so I called him Steven Segal cos I think that's what Watanabe really wanted, he just didn't want to go against THE MAN!

And Tymos is pretty stupid, so I'll just translate it (cos there's no limit and no wrong way to do so) and call you FUCKING STUPID.

*end sarcasm*

Even when faced with the fact that it's been officially stated his name is Guts, you people won't drop it. Why? Part of being an adult is being able to admit when you're wrong without acting like a bitch.

Take an example from Griffith. He admitted it might've been harsh for him to squelch all the idiocy, and did he make a big deal about it? No, until of course you pushed him back for it.

So fucking WHAT if you don't like "Guts". It's his NAME! So you'll call him whatever you please? Do you realize how childlike that is?

 

[puella]

Oh well, as long as I can say GutsI'm happy. I don't care if it's 'official' to say Guts, it just sound plain silly to me.

Nice to be back by the way... *grins*

*tests* Guts...

And if Walther takes that in the 'spelling correcter' too, then I'll simply make up a new one. So there.

Walther... You always call Walter Walther and now cry for your freedom going against the cenosorship?
You seem to be very stubborn when you call someone whatever way you like, Fish. ;)
But don't call me "poella", please.

 

[Nasferatu Zodd]

Fuck you and the confused horse you rode in on, shit for brains. Yeah, I felt kind of like a tool lifting the ban considering how I loathe people that can’t get GUTS fucking name straight and will go to ridiculous lengths to bastardize the story over their fucking personal preference. “It sounds dumb.” Fuck you, don’t read Berserk then, or at least don’t bring that bullshit around here. I guess the holidays and Fish coming back got me all warm and fuzzy for the old days when this place wasn’t overflowing with assholes like yourself. Moment over. Fuck anyone that can’t type Guts.

Brilliant, sheer brilliant. *applause*

 

[Fishbomb]

Walther... You always call Walter Walther and now cry for your freedom going against the cenosorship?
You seem to be very stubborn when you call someone whatever way you like, Fish. ;)
But don't call me "poella", please.

*Blinks* Oh, he spelled it without an 'h' *grins*

Sorry Walter, got stuck in the way that people around here usually spell it.

*blinks as Puella* Nah, I can see no reason why I should do that?

And yeah, I'm very stubborn. *grins*


As fot the discussion between Griffith and Tymos...

I mean come on guys. I know both of you and this kind of discussion is demeaning to you both. If you have to argue do it politely at least... Otherwise it is just pointless insults.

 

[Nasferatu Zodd]

Look, just grow up. All that is acceptable now is Guts. If you dont like the rule, then simply find another site to go bitch to.

Someone please lock this topic!

 

[xechnao]

Fuck you and the confused horse you rode in on, shit for brains. Yeah, I felt kind of like a tool lifting the ban considering how I loathe people that can’t get GUTS fucking name straight and will go to ridiculous lengths to bastardize the story over their fucking personal preference. “It sounds dumb.” Fuck you, don’t read Berserk then, or at least don’t bring that bullshit around here. I guess the holidays and Fish coming back got me all warm and fuzzy for the old days when this place wasn’t overflowing with assholes like yourself. Moment over. Fuck anyone that can’t type Guts.

"People are free to translate anywhichway they want. But there are such things are good and bad translations. If you don't agree with this, I'm sure you'd be just as happy if Dark Horse choose to translate 'Charlotte's' name to 'Dump truck'."

Here’s a “translation” of that: "I'm an idiot and I make abstract examples to sort of justify the point that I'm a fuckass"

Gee, I hope it doesn’t seem like I’m trying to curry favor among the ignorant masses?

Happy Turkey Day,

-Griffith

P.S. Oh, and YOU’RE WELCOME!

It's ok.
Fuck you.

 

[Olivier_Hague]

when someone attempt to link another site that has in the address one of the forbidden names the link fails.

Use tinyurl.

Lady Griffith and several other people spell Zodd, "Zoddo". Is that incorect, then?

Actually, "Zoddo" is the only official spelling of that name there is, as far as I know.

So Guts is the official translation, and that's that?

Yeah.

Funny, really. I recently read this interview with Miua

And you didn't understand it, obviously.

if I wanted to write Griffith as Grifisu I can do that...

Why you'd want to misspell a name is beyond me...

Berserk is for kids?

No, it's just that "Berserk" was first supposed to be a shônen manga, not a seinen manga.

From the interview (link and excerpt posted above), it seems obvious that Miura didn't pick the name for Berserk's main character because of its litteral meaning.

He picked that name because it was supposed to be a shônen manga. "Guts" = "konjô", i.e. a typical shônen manga thing.

I argue that 'Guts' is a poor English translation

It's a _name_. Who said anything about an "English translation"?

because it is a word with an undeniable litteral meaning.

So are "Void" or "Femto". Do I see you whine about "Void" or "Femto"?

There's a credible argument to support the view that 'Guts' is a poor translation.

No, there isn't. You don't know what you're talking about.

Dark Horse has finalized 'Guts' as their translation, making it official.

It already was before that.

If a translation looses the poetic qualities of the original

Again, you don't know what you're talking about. There never was any "poetic quality" about the main character's name.

 

[Fishbomb]

He picked that name because it was supposed to be a shônen manga. "Guts" = "konjô", i.e. a typical shônen manga thing.

PM: So what was Guts( ) original name? Did you already have a name for him?

KM: No (laughs). I only came up with the name shortly before i finished the story. I thought that a comic hero for adolescents had to have a tough name. This name somehow sounded german in my ears, therefore i liked it that much. There are thousands of nice, soft sounding names but i chose this brut sounding word as it was supposed to be a comic for kids. Later i came to know that there's also a noun that sounds similar, "Katze" (means cat in english - bob). I can't really recall it, "Kazze" or "Gazze". That seemed fitting to me for guts character who is similar to a wildcat. But that's just a strange coincidence which i was made aware of later.
........


Dunno... but it seems to me here that the likeness to the english word 'guts' was not as important as it was that it sounded tough and german... But that is just me.

 

[Olivier_Hague]

it seems to me here that the likeness to the english word 'guts' was not as important as it was that it sounded tough and german...

Why do you think he said anything about the manga being supposed to be a shônen manga? What does it have to do with the name "sounding German"? Nothing. But it has everything to do with the name being the English word "Guts".

 

[Fishbomb]

Why do you think he said anything about the manga being supposed to be a shônen manga? What does it have to do with the name "sounding German"? Nothing. But it has everything to do with the name being the English word "Guts".

Ahhh okay, I can see how it can be read that way now. Just didn't got hooked on the name sounding german. Because Guts just sound so... american to me. *shivers*

Ah well, I guess this turned into another discussion about Gatts name... when it was nothing about that at all.

Just didn't want what I wrote censored... other than that I don't care too much. I'll shut up now. *smiles*

 

[Mizar]

Just didn't want what I wrote censored... other than that I don't care too much. I'll shut up now. *smiles*

But it seems your whole effort was all for naught, since Griffith has re-implemented the censoring again. :'(

Can't blame him though, if people would have just accepted his name is Guts or at least had been asking nicely for an explanation, everyone would have been free to name him anything he/she wanted.
Anyway, in the end I think it's better this way, for all of us... ;)

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

Really, Fishbomb, it's not that big a deal. Just start calling him "The Guy With the Big Sword and the Iron Arm." ;)

 

[MangyKid Ver.4.3]

Either wizzay, his name makes no sense, so whatever dawgs. I have to disagree with whatever Griffith says though, and don't feel like reading all the bullshit in here, so change my stance on this to be the opposite of his if it already isn't. I'm a BSOM oldskooler too, just a neutered one, rememeber? Here's one for old times sake:

Griffith is a chipmunk with dildos for acorns!@!

 

[Griffith]

Thank you, Olivier. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

As for censorship: I tried playing the nice guy, but like all good deeds, it didn't go unpunished.

-Griffith

 

[Tymos]

I agree with some previous posters, who say this thread has derailed. I accept some of the blame, and will try to bring it back on topic.

Next, I'll say it's been interesting to see people reply to what I wrote. Especially the people who took the time to explain to me why they thought I was wrong. The point by point refutations of my arguments were the most informative. Thank you all, you've taught me a lot.

I'm not completely convinced I was wrong in everything I said, particularily not the bit about connotations, but I know now my case is weaker than I first thought.

Finally, I will say these things: I still consider it bad form of any and all of the posters who cursed and yelled instead of arguing against me.

To accept somebody else's opinion just because they are prepared to pour abuse your way, or because they say something that's more popular than you do, or because they have more authority, is wrong. It only invites conformism and self-censorship. (Yay! Back on topic!)

If I'm saying stupid things that are obviously false, prove me wrong. It should be easy. Sarcasm, swearing and patronizing behaviour in general will drag any discussion in the mud.

 

[Olivier_Hague]

I'm not completely convinced I was wrong in everything I said, particularily not the bit about connotations

You were. The main character's name has no "poetic quality" to it.

 

[xechnao]

You were. The main character's name has no "poetic quality" to it.

Who says so?
Haven't you ever heard in a script, dialogues to intentionally change characters' names?
Communication is an art. And art is an expression of taste.
Poetry is an art of communication.
So I believe the main character's name has "poetic quality" to it unless you wanna censor peoples taste.
Is this what you have in mind?

 

[kimchan]

I don't see how the alternate spellings (read: misspellings) have any more "poetic quality" than Guts. They all sound basically the same. Your argument sounds like bullshit to try and save face.

Or maybe it should be BS, that sounds more poetic. ::)

 

[xechnao]

I don't see how Guts/Guts/Gutz has any more "poetic quality" than Guts. They all sound basically the same. Your argument sounds like bullshit to try and save face.

Or maybe it should be BS, that sounds more poetic. ::)

Why did you say that?
Do you want me to tell you you are BS yourself?
Haven't you done your homework and you need be part of this?
This is what it seems.
Now read the whole thread and read also Miura's interview and try not to BS anymore.

 

[Griffith]

If only I could censor stupidity.

-Griffith

 

[xechnao]

If only I could censor stupidity.

-Griffith

Tolerance is the wise communicator's measure.
This is why complains come.

 

[Griffith]

Tolerance is wasted around here, pal. I have no respect for people that blatantly disregard the story for their own agenda. And listening to crappy invalid arguments and responding kindly is obviously a waste too. Olivier totally defeated Tymos' point with the arguments he was whining for, and Tymos just ignored him. I've seen this happen countless times, it's happened to me countless times. He'll think he's right even if Kentarou Miura himself tatooed Guts on his forehead. That's what stupid people do; and that's why I stopped wasting my time and tolerance arguing with them long ago.

It's much more enjoyable making fun of them, anyway.

Duh. ;)

-Griffith

 

[xechnao]

Tolerance is wasted around here, pal. I have no respect for people that blatantly disregard the story for their own agenda. And listening to crappy invalid arguments and responding kindly is obviously a waste too. Olivier totally defeated Tymos' point with the arguments he was whining for, and Tymos just ignored him. I've seen this happen countless times, it's happened to me countless times. He'll think he's right even if Kentarou Miura himself tatooed Guts on his forehead. That's what stupid people do; and that's why I stopped wasting my time and tolerance arguing with them long ago.

It's much more enjoyable making fun of them, anyway.

Duh. ;)

-Griffith

Is this a board hosting peoples' opinions or a board of dogma preaching Miura's or somebodies word?

Fun is welcome and much needed but it is acceptable to a limit. Respect allways is. Finding the right balance is the trick.

 

[Oltobaz]

Who says so?
Haven't you ever heard in a script, dialogues to intentionally change characters' names?
Communication is an art. And art is an expression of taste.
Poetry is an art of communication.
So I believe the main character's name has "poetic quality" to it unless you wanna censor peoples taste.
Is this what you have in mind?

I think you misunderstood him.Either that or Kimchan's explanation...
Berserk main character name is Guts.That's all there is to it.I know some got used to different spellings due to various translations (Italians,for instance, are used to G.a.t.t.s because that spelling has been used in the italian translation for quite a while now)but in the end it doesn't even matter if we like it or not (as a matter of fact,I do) since,well,that's his fucking official name!!