Berserk:God's Hand[RPG]

[pippin22]

I couldnt imagine how anyone could re-enact these scenes with pixilized sprites

You make me sick... it can be done.

 

[IsolatioN]

It's not the how its the why? Only Casca's rape scene is important to the plot. Personally I think Griffith copping a feel would be a lot more humorous for a rpg then a pixilized rape scene. It could leave Guts just as pissed!

Actually, Guts being raped by Donovan was just as important. Remember, Guts probably wouldn't of killed Gambino/fled the Mercinary band he was with if he hadn't of been sold out to Donovan.. And in tun he wouldn't of met the Band of the Hawk, Griffith wouldn't get captured, casca wouldn't get raped..

In a sense, it's all Donovan's fault. But I suppose I'm just playing the "simplifying game". You could blame it of Shizu(sp?) for picking up Guts, or on Guts' biological mother for dieing.. Really depends how deep you look into it.

 

[Aazealh]

Only Casca's rape scene is important to the plot.

Don't state ridiculous stuff like that please.

 

[Ramen4ever]

Actually, Guts being raped by Donovan was just as important. Remember, Guts probably wouldn't of killed Gambino/fled the Mercinary band he was with if he hadn't of been sold out to Donovan..

Actually.. Guts killed Gambino by accident out of self defense and not out of revenge for being sold to Donovan. He fled because he had to.

And Aaz I was being serious. For a RPG game (unless you want to make a boring replica of the story, full of the non essential stuff) Only Caska's rape scene could ever be relevent. It is one of the fuels that keeps our Guts burning for revenge against Griffith. It establishes a "why" in the story ..but personally I don't wanna see any rape scene.

 

[IsolatioN]

Actually.. Guts killed Gambino by accident out of self defense and not out of revenge for being sold to Donovan. He fled because he had to.

That is true, but you can't deny the rape by Donovan played a roll in it. An example of this would be the dialogue between Gambino and Guts in Vol.4, page 50. Gambino reveals "Remember on the night of your first battle? Donovan bought you, for three silver coins. And I'm the one who payed"

Guts is shocked and saddened by this, and in addition to self defense I think he was also a bit angry.. Look on page 56 of the same volume, middle panel. As Guts is stabbing him, his face has anger displayed (he looks mad, gritting his teeth) of course the next panel is followed by shock at what he had just done.

 

[Ramen4ever]

Actually, Guts being raped by Donovan was just as important.

I'm not denying it had a impact on guts but you have to admit it's not as essential as you point it out to be. Casca left a far bigger impact on Guts. Also how would this go in the game, a flash back? and why would it go into the game? It explains why Guts doesn't like to be touched but I really doubt that would be important. Anyway its all up to JamieZ  His game, His thread. I recommend we stop littering in it
~My apologies

Edit: I love the sprites, the faces all look the same though... but I guess thats okay. I think Miura-sensai should make more characters with beards .. if only I had photoshop!

 

[osca]

I actually wouldnt mind helping, I worked with RPG maker 2k. Back in the day. I wouldnt mind working on the world dynamics/terrain sculpting, or whatever needs help. But im not very good with the programming, but it may have gotten easier I havent played with the newest version.

 

[madd.dawgg]

I'm sorry but I don't think this RPG thing will work if it continues the direction it is going. What I have gleened from the thread is that it's mostly going to be a retelling in sprites of the cartoon.

That's not a video game.

I like the idea of an RPG Berserk a lot. I also think your sprites look great. You need a different angle to make this work as a video game though. I think the most important thing is that the game is enjoyable.

An RPG is fun for different people for different reasons. However, there are some constants. Watching the characters evolve as we overcomes obstacles is gratifying for all players. This evolving is done in two ways.

Firstly, characters statistacally evolve by gaining levels, abilities, etc. Characters also gain new items. This is one of the biggest parts of any RPG. Items usually are one of the main ways a player can tweak their team. Ability trees also allow a player to tweak his team.

Secondly, character's personalities evolve and unfold before the player. Most RPGs have very event oriented stories. In some games, the player gets to make choices which changes the ending. In others, the player learns about the characters based on the choices that the characters make.

Think about those two things and how they might work in a Berserk game. There are a lot of problems. I'll list the ones that I'm thinking.

Problem 1: Gaining new gear/items really doesn't happen in the Anime that often. Even if it does, it's not anything special. There aren't Relics like FF6 to use. There aren't magical weapons to discover. There aren't potions to buy. Without these elements present, the RPG will lose a big part of the fun.

Problem 2: We already know the characters. Anyone who downloads this game has probably already seen the cartoon. Another good chance is that he's already read a lot of the comic book. He knows the story. He's going to be bored by a retelling.

Problem 3: Challenge? I'm not saying Guts has an easy time. I'm saying that Guts is a fighter type character. He pretty much just attacks. If you engage a monster, you're limited on options. Even if a monster is taxing on your HP pool or whatnot, it's going to be boring. The player just chooses Attack. Maybe Puck is more of a combatant?

There are probably more, but those are all I can think of right now.

If you want a suggestion on the story aspect, I'd say you need the game to be post eclipse. The world of Berserk gains a lot of RPG-like aspects, such as spells, magic weapons, party members, adventures, monsters, etc. In fact, I'd be very curious how an RPG would handle Shierke's unique way of casting spells. Also, the thought "to go into berserker mode or not" should be a part of every player's battle plan for Guts. There's just SO much here that makes a good RPG

Golden age Berserk is mostly warring. It's also pretty ordinary. I mean that it doesn't have anything to oooh or aaah. Zodd is about it, and he leaves as soon as he arrives. Unless you have some really bad ass fight system, playing Guts is going to be boring. You'll never change gear. You'll never have other options. It'll just be a boring recreation of the cartoon. Seriously, the thought of playing the 100 man slayer part doesn't sound appealing.

 

[Aazealh]

And Aaz I was being serious. For a RPG game (unless you want to make a boring replica of the story, full of the non essential stuff)

Yeah, you were being serious and that's why I told you not to be ridiculous. A boring replica of the story, eh? So you think the story is boring? Let me tell you, RPGs are full of boring and non-essential stuff in essence, that's part of what they are. And Berserk's story can't work well with that medium. But Guts' rape by Donovan is essential to the story and is the basis for half the events in the early arcs. If you can't understand that, then you don't understand anything about Berserk. I also don't see how it's boring, it's not like it goes on for ages.

Casca left a far bigger impact on Guts.

That's really, really debatable. You're pretty much just viewing everything through a simplifying prism here, events don't have to be more important than one another, it's not the question. What happened with Donovan plays a huge role in Guts' relationship to Casca, and who's to say it didn't affect how he perceived her rape? Using your logic, nothing is important besides superfluous fight scenes. Maybe you should re-read the manga.

Also how would this go in the game, a flash back? and why would it go into the game?

Why would anything go into the game? A RPG isn't adapted to transcribe Berserk's story, the characters don't have classes, nor levels, nor special powers. The fights are all enacted already, and they don't happen like they would in a game. There's a thousand reasons not to do this game, and your very view of how it should be done is one. Needless to say, JamieZ's plan not to follow the manga very accurately and to drop some (many?) parts while adding others makes your whole "point" useless. Now do me a favor and stop insisting that such or such thing isn't important, you're seemingly not qualified to judge that. If you think a game should focus on fighting stuff and leave plot elements to the minimum then say so, but don't go around telling others what's needed or not. Anyway you said it yourself, this is JamieZ's game, just let him do as he pleases.

What I have gleened from the thread is that it's mostly going to be a retelling in sprites of the cartoon.

That's not a video game.

There's no point in making a Berserk game if you don't follow the storyline of Berserk, you might as well just call it a game that vaguely took inspiration from a manga. And JamieZ didn't seem to be trying to retell the story with sprites from what he said, his scenario looked like it was rather loosely based on the original. He also stated that he was basing himself mostly on the manga, not the anime. Now don't get me wrong, it doesn't mean I think the game would work well like that. I think it can't work at all while staying faithful to the original, no matter what is done.

The problems you listed made me laugh, because they're so obvious. What do people expect? Berserk wasn't created as a game, of course it doesn't work well as one. And you're wrong if you think a Berserk RPG would work if you started from the Retribution or Millennium Falcon arc. Some more classical fantasy elements appeared in the story, but that didn't make it RPG-like, far from it. The characters gained some equipment once or twice, and they travel in group. Whoa, big change from no update, now you update automatically once in the whole game. And while they do travel together, their group can hardly be related to a RPG party past the first look. The fights also don't fit the RPG model at all. About Schierke's spells, you're curious of how it would work? I'll answer: it wouldn't. She called to elemental spirits 3 times in total in the story, used a different spirit each time of course, plus the 2 times she summoned a barrier using the powers of the four elemental kings. Now that's variety! Lastly, going berserk should be a part of each player's plan? What about the story? Guts lost it to the armor at precise times (3 in total), and the situation was very tight everytime he did (and what would it change for the player from the usual attacks? Nothing basically). Modifying that to adapt it to a game would just mess everything up and make the story nonsensical. Then think about how short the game would be, with all the "useless plot stuff" (yeah, I'm sarcastic ) removed.

Like I said, you'd be better off making an altogether different game, but inspired by Berserk.

Anyway, this thread isn't for debating guys, let's just stop here and let JamieZ update it with news from his project. That's what it's meant to be about. Thanks in advance to everybody.

 

[JamieZ]

Sorry guys for not responding for awhile, I've been away. But I'm back now and boy has there been a large debate going on. Theres also been (this might be a bit harsh but) quite a number of stupid comments with this project, and I can simply explain them out really easily too. first of all I'll just say,

THIS GAME WASN'T INTENDED FOR YOU PEOPLE IN THE FIRST PLACE, I ONLY POSTED IT HERE BECAUSE I THOUGHT YOU FANS MIGHT WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT. BUT IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE IDEA, FINE, I"LL STOP POSTING HERE THEN.

Now that we have gotten this out of the way I'll anwser these questions...

So if you're going by the manga does that mean your putting in the things cut out of the Anime like:
The Slug Count
Guts being raped when he was 9 by Donovan for 3 silver coins
Charlotte near rape by the King
Skull Knight's first meeting with Guts after he leaves BotH's
Guts trying to kill Casca
Charlotte telling about Emperor Gaiseric (who we think is Skull Knight)
and so on....

Personally I don't think all the RAPING is nescessary, the casca rape is fine mainly because it would be weird and un-appealling for people who have no idea about berserk. Everything else you mentioned will be in it I believe.

I'm sorry but I don't think this RPG thing will work if it continues the direction it is going. What I have gleened from the thread is that it's mostly going to be a retelling in sprites of the cartoon.

That's not a video game.

I like the idea of an RPG Berserk a lot. I also think your sprites look great. You need a different angle to make this work as a video game though. I think the most important thing is that the game is enjoyable.

An RPG is fun for different people for different reasons. However, there are some constants. Watching the characters evolve as we overcomes obstacles is gratifying for all players. This evolving is done in two ways.

Firstly, characters statistacally evolve by gaining levels, abilities, etc. Characters also gain new items. This is one of the biggest parts of any RPG. Items usually are one of the main ways a player can tweak their team. Ability trees also allow a player to tweak his team.

Secondly, character's personalities evolve and unfold before the player. Most RPGs have very event oriented stories. In some games, the player gets to make choices which changes the ending. In others, the player learns about the characters based on the choices that the characters make.

Think about those two things and how they might work in a Berserk game. There are a lot of problems. I'll list the ones that I'm thinking.

Problem 1: Gaining new gear/items really doesn't happen in the Anime that often. Even if it does, it's not anything special. There aren't Relics like FF6 to use. There aren't magical weapons to discover. There aren't potions to buy. Without these elements present, the RPG will lose a big part of the fun.

Problem 2: We already know the characters. Anyone who downloads this game has probably already seen the cartoon. Another good chance is that he's already read a lot of the comic book. He knows the story. He's going to be bored by a retelling.

Problem 3: Challenge? I'm not saying Guts has an easy time. I'm saying that Guts is a fighter type character. He pretty much just attacks. If you engage a monster, you're limited on options. Even if a monster is taxing on your HP pool or whatnot, it's going to be boring. The player just chooses Attack. Maybe Puck is more of a combatant?

There are probably more, but those are all I can think of right now.

Problem 1. You obviously haven't played many rpg's, rpg's are very flexiable. For Example, the equipment problem. I'm going to implement a Upgrade/Blacksmith feature you can upgrade your weapon when it gains enough experience and has fufilled any other requirements. Simple. The potions and that, what do you think this is? Do you think every single rpg has had a potion as the main healing item? Again you obviously haven't played many rpg's. WE DON'T NEED POTIONS! You may have noticed that they had BANDAGES back then, and can you believe it? They had doctors too(sarcasim). See its really flexiable.

Problem 2. As stated above, I didn't intend to upload the game to fan forums, this is mainly a personal project that I was posting on a rmxp forum. So if you know the story fine, DON'T PLAY IT.

Problem 3. Again you haven't played many rpg's maybe those old snes games and thats it. Ther won't be classes of course it wouldn't be fun if guts just did fighter attacks, I KNOW THIS, so solution to the problem is my battle system, its going to be a tactical battle system that has many more factors than any other game. That's all I'll say for now its kinda a surprise(if you still want to hear about it)

Thanks for trying to defend me Aazealh(for the lesser part) and your concerns has most likely have been solved via above.

On a side note, I'll state, I know what I'm doing guys. I've been working on this project for some time now, I have a team and I've heard all the issues people have with the project from other forums and they have been explained so don't take offence to this post, I'm tired and I'm getting annoyed by anwsering the same questions over and over. So yeah.

Thanks for the other comments guys, and osca...
Sorry mate but you would have to know rmxp cause 2k was crap, the graphics have changed the eventing has changed and you scripting. So your 2k skills won't be of much use unless your confident you can produce quality work like my sprites. But your offer was apreciated though.

 

[madd.dawgg]

Firstly, I didn't mean to offend you, JamieZ, in any way. I apologize for doing so. I was just expressing concern. My thinking was based on what I've experienced with other RPG maker games. They were very bland, very boring games. Also, they're usually a lot like SNES games (the one's you have no intention to imitate).

THIS GAME WASN'T INTENDED FOR YOU PEOPLE IN THE FIRST PLACE, I ONLY POSTED IT HERE BECAUSE I THOUGHT YOU FANS MIGHT WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT. BUT IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE IDEA, FINE, I"LL STOP POSTING HERE THEN.

What? I said exactly this, "I like the idea of an RPG Berserk a lot." I don't think you should stop posting here. I think everyone is very interested in your game.

Your solutions to my problems (no matter how obvious or trivial) are great. Like I said, I was just concerned. I'm now very curious how your battle system is going to work. But, if it's a secret I'll wait for the release patiently.

[quote author=Aazealh]The problems you listed made me laugh, because they're so obvious.[/quote]

Admittedly, they were off the top of my head. In all fairness, until JamieZ's most recent post I really hadn't read anything that absolved them as potential problems. Maybe I overlooked something in the thread?

Now Aazealh, you said after you blatanly said that I was wrong, "Anyway, this thread isn't for debating guys, let's just stop here and let JamieZ update it with news from his project. That's what it's meant to be about. Thanks in advance to everybody."

I don't think that's the right way to go about it, but I'll oblige your request as you have overwhelming seniority over me. Although, is it fair to say that you pretty much think that it's going to take some serious stretching from JamieZ's and his team to make the game work.

 

[Aazealh]

Maybe I overlooked something in the thread?

Yeah, maybe you should pay more attention to what people say and assume less about what you don't know.

Now Aazealh, you said after you blatanly said that I was wrong, "Anyway, this thread isn't for debating guys, let's just stop here and let JamieZ update it with news from his project. That's what it's meant to be about. Thanks in advance to everybody."

I don't think that's the right way to go about it, but I'll oblige your request as you have overwhelming seniority over me.

That was because a user requested it (rightly so). I was originally asked to plain remove all the discussion, be happy that your post still exists. Also, I don't care what you think is the right way to do things, and if you want me to explain everything to you point by point you can always PM me.

 

[madd.dawgg]

Once again, I apologize.

 

[Kagami]

I couldnt imagine how anyone could re-enact these scenes with pixilized sprites

They don't really need to re-enact the scenes, just give the idea of what's going down (have the dirty bastard sneak into lil guts tent, then fade to black[?]). Sometimes what you can't see makes more of an impact over what you can see.

 

[osca]

Alright just offering the help, I had some fun back when 2k3 was just out and people were making rpgs like crazy, and im still here if you need it.

 

[JamieZ]

They don't really need to re-enact the scenes, just give the idea of what's going down (have the dirty bastard sneak into lil guts tent, then fade to black[?]). Sometimes what you can't see makes more of an impact over what you can see.

Thats exactly what I was thinking of, and its pretty much all we can do.

Alright just offering the help, I had some fun back when 2k3 was just out and people were making rpgs like crazy, and im still here if you need it.

Well, rmxp is different again, but what knid of help are you offering?

 

[JamieZ]

We got some news now people.

Thanks to our newest member we will be getting our own website(YAY!) We'll post info and updates on their from then on, but I'll still post here saying, "We've updated the website with some more screenies" or something like that.

Also we've(well I have, since I'm head spriter I get to pick^^) changed the sprite style/template. We have chosen a new style that is perfect for our game, because they sprites look more anime-like than any other sprites. Heres the template...

Yes I know it looks clumsy, but it works great. I've made an example of it...

and heres one my new member did(he's going to be a spriter for our game^^)

Comments?

 

[Walter]

Also we've(well I have, since I'm head spriter I get to pick^^) changed the sprite style/template. We have chosen a new style that is perfect for our game, because they sprites look more anime-like than any other sprites.

But, neither the Berserk anime nor the manga are drawn "anime-like." I understand you're doing your own thing here but, since you have the freedom to supercede the generic anime look, why not take it?

You could always just make this the final product, and do Berserk: Area 51 instead

Good luck dude.

 

[JamieZ]

But, neither the Berserk anime nor the manga are drawn "anime-like." I understand you're doing your own thing here but, since you have the freedom to supercede the generic anime look, why not take it?

When I said "anime-like" I meant the closest style we can get to being anime.

You could always just make this the final product, and do Berserk: Area 51 instead Carcus

Haha, I guess we could.

 

[IsolatioN]

Yes but Berserk isn't supposed to look anime-like. I believe one of Miura's goals when making Berserk (or at least the Golden Age arc) were to not go with a traditional anime/manga character feel, but rather a proportionally correct European-inspired characters and architect designs.

 

[Aazealh]

I believe one of Miura's goals when making Berserk (or at least the Golden Age arc) were to not go with a traditional anime/manga character feel, but rather a proportionally correct European-inspired characters and architect designs.

Miura's goal? He just drew characters like he wanted to... Few good mangaka follow that so-called "anime style", and Miura simply isn't one of them. It has always been the case, even in his earliest art (definitely not specific to the Golden Age arc). As for the "traditional manga feel", what is it supposed to be? Osamu Tezuka's artistic style?

 

[JamieZ]

Yes but Berserk isn't supposed to look anime-like. I believe one of Miura's goals when making Berserk (or at least the Golden Age arc) were to not go with a traditional anime/manga character feel, but rather a proportionally correct European-inspired characters and architect designs.

And how exactly do we replicate that? With the resources that we have you're asking for the impossible.

 

[CnC]

I don't see how a description of the style miura draws in is "asking for the impossible"

 

[JamieZ]

Look people just drop it. God, it seems after every update/post I make, someone seems to post something that disagrees with what I post. I said I'm following the manga's storyline but I'm didnt say I'm going to base everything on that.

 

[IsolatioN]

Miura's goal? He just drew characters like he wanted to... Few good mangaka follow that so-called "anime style", and Miura simply isn't one of them. It has always been the case, even in his earliest art (definitely not specific to the Golden Age arc). As for the "traditional manga feel", what is it supposed to be? Osamu Tezuka's artistic style?

Perhaps "goal" was too bold of a word. What I was trying to get at was that Berserk just looks.. Different then other mangas and such that I've seen. I dunno. I'm not the biggest manga/anime fan so I really don't know much of what else is out there, except for the ones everyone knows about. Compared to Pokemon or Dragon Ball Z, Berserk looks a lot more realistic. Faces and proportions look correct to how they do in real life. While there are some exceptions, I think you get what I generally mean?

I was simply trying to say that Berserk looks allot more "real" then some of its other competitors. Don't really know what I was getting at with "traditional manga feel" since I obviously don't have enough experience with manga to make proper judgement.


Good luck with your game, JamieZ. Don't get upset, people are just offering input into your project. We aren't (or atleast I'm not ) trying to pick on you. Just don't want to see Berserk done incorrectly.