Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin

[Aazealh]

http://www.konami.jp/gs/game/dracula_ds2/

Official site launched today, with some new screenshots on it. I'm considering getting the game in Japanese this time around. If I do I won't get the details of the dialogues but:

1) There will be translations online.
2) Who cares about the ever insipid dialogues anyway.

Hmm, hard decision...

 

[handsome rakshas]

Hmm, hard decision...

Do it! I'm considering getting the JP version myself since everyone has the release date of this game scheduled for December 5th in the states. That will be too much of a long wait for the game I've been looking forward to the most this year.
Plus, if you get it early and I don't you could post your impressions of the game and make me drool! I say go for it, because an extra 2-3 weeks wait for this game would be not worth it!

 

[Aazealh]

Do it! I'm considering getting the JP version myself since everyone has the release date of this game scheduled for December 5th in the states. That will be too much of a long wait for the game I've been looking forward to the most this year.

Well, the problem is that the game is scheduled for a November 24 release here... Before you guys (for once). It's only 8 days after Japan, so I'm not sure it'll be worth it. I love the Japanese SFX and digital voices though, so I'm seriously hesitating. Plus I imagine there'll be a "Dragon Slayer" (Ascalon) sword like in the 2 Sorrow games, and I could finally know whether it's written like in Berserk or not (making it a really undeniable reference).

 

[handsome rakshas]

Well, the problem is that the game is scheduled for a November 24 release here... Before you guys (for once). It's only 8 days after Japan, so I'm not sure it'll be worth it. I love the Japanese SFX and digital voices though, so I'm seriously hesitating. Plus I imagine there'll be a "Dragon Slayer" (Ascalon) sword like in the 2 Sorrow games, and I could finally know whether it's written like in Berserk or not (making it a really undeniable reference).

Hmm, this really is a hard decision! I can't help you out on this one since its really up to personal preference. I'm glad to hear that your side will be getting it earlier than us in the states. 8 days really isn't that long, but now you got me curious about whether or not the "Dragon Slayer" sword is really a Berserk reference. Anyone who picks up the JP version, could you please take a screen cap of the item description if Aaz doesn't beat you to it? Thanks!

 

[Aazealh]

now you got me curious about whether or not the "Dragon Slayer" sword is really a Berserk reference.

Well, just to be clear I really think it is, the name being the same would just make the reference even more obvious. Anyway, I could never find a screenshot of the weapon's name in Japanese for either Aria of Sorrow or Dawn of Sorrow to confirm it, and I've been too lazy to play a JP version on emulator to check it myself. Maybe I'll do that today.

EDIT: Well I found it, the text is "竜殺しの剣."

In Berserk it's written "ドラゴンころし," however it's basically the same thing. In the game it's just kanji instead of kana, plus "の剣" added which simply means "sword of." So Ascalon is a "sword of Dragon Slaying" [Ryû Koroshi no Ken] and in Berserk we have the Dragon Slayer [Doragon Koroshi]. Ryû meaning dragon. Works for me, it's pretty much what I expected. The way it's worded coupled with the sword's appearance in AoS makes it an undeniable reference.

 

[handsome rakshas]

EDIT: Well I found it, the text is "竜殺しの剣."

In Berserk it's written "ドラゴンころし," however it's basically the same thing. In the game it's just kanji instead of kana, plus "の剣" added which simply means "sword of." So Ascalon is a "sword of Dragon Slaying" [Ryû Koroshi no Ken] and in Berserk we have the Dragon Slayer [Doragon Koroshi]. Ryû meaning dragon. Works for me, it's pretty much what I expected. The way it's worded coupled with the sword's appearance in AoS makes it an undeniable reference.

Whoa, I forgot to check back on this. I have been asking around for some screencaps of the item description of the Ascalon. Glad to see that you found it, thats pretty awesome.

Edit of utter remorse: My friends, I have screwed up big time! Not being able to resist the temptation of spoilers for this game I have went ahead and totally ruined (no pun intended) this game for myself. I watched a video of this game (Don't know if its real, but probably is) showcasing bonus characters unlocked after beating the game. I was both horrified and excited, so I warn people who are stoked for this game to be wary of any new vids you watch! This was the game I have been most excited for all year and I blew it! Let me just say that playing as Alucard in Dawn of Sorrow is NOTHING compared to the bonuses in this game! Resist the temptation, I wish I did!

 

[Aazealh]

My friends, I have screwed up big time! Not being able to resist the temptation of spoilers for this game I have went ahead and totally ruined (no pun intended) this game for myself. [...] Let me just say that playing as Alucard in Dawn of Sorrow is NOTHING compared to the bonuses in this game! Resist the temptation, I wish I did!

Wow man, you've already said too much. Please, no more. And sorry you ruined it for yourself.

 

[handsome rakshas]

Neat interview with Iga up at IGN
http://ds.ign.com/articles/734/734980p1.html
And the best news yet, both Japanese and English voices!
Also some intersting WiFi info.

 

[Aazealh]

And the best news yet, both Japanese and English voices!

Wow, that's just fanstatic! Man, do I love Iga. And thanks for the info dude! Now I can buy the European version without regret.

 

[NTSC-J]

Regarding the Dragon Slayer, I think it being a reference to Berserk may be reaching a bit. "Dragon Slayer" is a pretty generic and cliche name for a sword in a fantasy manga, Miura isn't the first to use it. There's an RPG series called Dragon Slayer, they are stores online that sell swords called Dragon Slayer, there's even a movie called Sword of the Dragon Slayer. It may look like Guts' sword, but most Japanese fantasy stories have a guy with a big sword. However, if the item's description in the game says something along the lines of "on loan from Guts" I'll concede.

I'm pretty well done with this style of Castlevania, but would be more than happy to buy another 2D platformer if they were inclined to make one.

 

[Aazealh]

Regarding the Dragon Slayer, I think it being a reference to Berserk may be reaching a bit.

Well I think you're wrong about that. Did you play the game or are you familiar with the way Castlevania developers name weapons in the series? They're often references to legends, myths, or popular works of literature. It's not a secret. You have swords called Mormegil and Mournblade in these games, among a lot of similar examples. Then you have this sword that is not only similar in appearance but also in the way its description is worded (note that its name itself is yet another reference, but to St George). There's hardly a way to make it more obvious save for writing "Berserk" on it.

"Dragon Slayer" is a pretty generic and cliche name for a sword in a fantasy manga, Miura isn't the first to use it. There's an RPG series called Dragon Slayer, they are stores online that sell swords called Dragon Slayer, there's even a movie called Sword of the Dragon Slayer.

Actually that's simply not true. There aren't that many swords named "Dragon Slayer," and in fact I'd really like you to tell me in what fantasy manga the name was used for a sword before Berserk came out, since you apparently know plenty of them. Oh and there's a movie called "Dragon Slayer" that came out in 1981, but it's not about a sword at all, and neither is the old game series you talked about. On top of that they're also written differently in Japanese. So that's not much of a point, I'm afraid.

It may look like Guts' sword, but most Japanese fantasy stories have a guy with a big sword.

I'm going to call bullshit on that one (no offense intended). The sword in the game is unmistakingly a miniature reproduction of the DS from Berserk, it's not just a big sword. Even its stats are fitting. Seriously, I couldn't make it more resembling if I wanted to within the limits of the game's graphics. And you're welcome to cite me Japanese fantasy stories anterior to Berserk and featuring similar swords. I don't mean a sword that's a bit longer than usual, I mean one as huge as the DS, bigger than its owner, and if possible with the same look. Save maybe for Pygmalio by Shinji Wada, I'll be surprised if you can name anything (and even then that's more a symbolic than esthetic reference).

 

[handsome rakshas]

They're often references to legends, myths, or popular works of literature.

Geez, tell me about it. The number of Lord of the Ring references in Symphony made me cry. Maybe as Castlevania games move more into the future we'll get some holy trilogy references. (There was a kinda lightsaber weapon in Curse of Darkness, though.) Yeah, NTSC-J, look up some of the weapon names, you'll be pretty entertained with some of the stuff you'll find. I know I was.

 

[NTSC-J]

Actually that's simply not true. There aren't that many swords named "Dragon Slayer," and in fact I'd really like you to tell me in what fantasy manga the name was used for a sword before Berserk came out, since you apparently know plenty of them. Oh and there's a movie called "Dragon Slayer" that came out in 1981, but it's not about a sword at all, and neither is the old game series you talked about. On top of that they're also written differently in Japanese. So that's not much of a point, I'm afraid.

My point is that the name is so widely used for years, it could be referencing anything. There's generally an Excalibur in these games, are they referencing Final Fantasy? King Arthur? Doesn't really matter because, as you said, Castlevania games pull in names from all sorts of mythology (Medusa-heads, Merman, Beezlebub, fuggin Dracula, etc.) I bet if you asked Miura he'd say he pulled Dragon Slayer from books he read. I just think it's a bit much to say that Berserk itself was the inspiration when the name has been used all over fantasy lore for centuries. If it looks just like it that's cool stuff, I'd like to try it out to pretend I'm playing a 2D Berserk game.

But if you want me to point to others using the Dragon Slayer name, there's:

the movie Sword of the Dragon Slayer (that I already mentioned)
another movie called Legend of the Dragonslayer Swordthat claims the name comes from Martial Arts myths
this ugly thing you can buy
Valkyrie Profile has a sword called the Dragon Slayer (likely referencing the one in Norse mythology, rather than Berserk)
Lineage, an MMORPG, has a sword called the Dragon Slayer

The sword in the Castlevania game, according to the kanji you posted, means the sword of one who kills dragons, so it could be attributed to any Dragon Slayers in history for which there are many. Maybe the fact that it looks just like Guts' sword does mean it's referencing that exact design, but I still find that to be a reach.

Regardless, I hope you're right. While they're at it, throw in Griffith's helmet as an equipable item and I'll buy it no questions asked.

 

[Aazealh]

My point is that the name is so widely used for years, it could be referencing anything. There's generally an Excalibur in these games, are they referencing Final Fantasy? King Arthur?

Yeah, it references King Arthur. Just like the Mournblade references Elric and Mormegil references the Silmarillion. I don't see what's hard to get here? I mean the Final Fantasy games also don't hesitate to make small references here and there. It's even been said that the dev team of FFVII appreciated Berserk.

I bet if you asked Miura he'd say he pulled Dragon Slayer from books he read.

Well actually he didn't, but that's something for another thread.

I just think it's a bit much to say that Berserk itself was the inspiration when the name has been used all over fantasy lore for centuries. If it looks just like it that's cool stuff, I'd like to try it out to pretend I'm playing a 2D Berserk game.

But the name hasn't been used all over fantasy lore for centuries. It's a common expression, but it's not a weapon's name. I've asked you examples of swords named specifically like that in centuries old Japanese tales or whatever you were saying. Where are they? Anyway that's not really the question here. Every Castlevania enthusiast knows that the weapons' names are taken from popular stories/books/etc. Berserk isn't an exception, and people have made clear references to the DS from Berserk in other games before. I don't see why you find it so implausible. The most popular sword called "Dragon Slayer" in Japan is quite clearly the one from Berserk IMO.

the movie Sword of the Dragon Slayer (that I already mentioned)

Where's the link to it?

another movie called Legend of the Dragonslayer Swordthat claims the name comes from Martial Arts myths

Whoa, a HK straight-to-VHS flick made in 1996 that nobody's seen? Now that's some serious material here dude. I'm sure that's the real inspiration for that sword in Aria of Sorrow that looks exactly like the DS from Berserk.

this ugly thing you can buy

Haha, now that's even better. Are you proving anything here? You're not replying to what I asked, and you're actually ignoring the details of what I said. I didn't ask you to show me every little webpage with a picture of a sword and Dragon Slayer written on it, that's completely irrelevant to the discussion. You're really failing to support your previous claims here. Are these the most significant examples there are? Nothing more serious? From a major work? I don't want to sound too defensive or to derail the thread too badly (might be too late for both though), but I really think you need to view things from another perspective. It's not like Berserk's a webcomic started in 2002, it's sold over 25 million volumes in Japan and has been around for almost 20 years. It's reached a status where people make references to it in other works (even in stuff like Love Hina), it's a fact.

Valkyrie Profile has a sword called the Dragon Slayer (likely referencing the one in Norse mythology, rather than Berserk)

I don't find it all that unlikely to think that Berserk could have been a minor influence for it actually, especially considering Arngrim's uncanny resemblance to a certain character I won't name.

And I'm not aware of any sword specifically called the "Dragon Slayer" in Norse mythology, although Beowulf did kill a dragon using his sword Naegling. The sword "Hrunting" is recurring in the Castlevania series BTW (I'm on topic! XD).

Lineage, an MMORPG, has a sword called the Dragon Slayer

Haha yeah, that's pretty funny since I posted about this in a thread dedicated to Berserk references years ago. In Lineage 2 there's a sword that's a practically perfect copy of the DS too. And there's a teaching NPC called Guts and a guard called Pippin in the Newbie Island for humans (Korean servers). All coincidences I'm sure! Also in PSO there's a sword called "Dragon Slayer" that's a replica of the DS from Berserk, but obviously the fact it's graphically so similar is a coincidence too? What about the one in the game "Samurai Western" then? And the one in Power Stone 2? Sorry but your arguments aren't solid enough for me here man.

The sword in the Castlevania game, according to the kanji you posted, means the sword of one who kills dragons

No, it doesn't mean that, it means what I said in my earlier post. Sorry. In the end I wouldn't think twice about it if the sword wasn't a carbon copy of the DS at the scale of the game. The fact it's described with a wording so similar to the DS' name in Berserk only confirms something that is already evident from its look. Anyway I'm not going to argue with you about it, I mean if you don't want to believe it I'm not going to change your mind beyond what I already said. I secretly hope they'll throw in a beherit this time, BTW. If they do I'll keep you informed.

 

[NTSC-J]

I agree that this is far too nerdy and trivial of a thing to argue about, but my main point was that the name Dragon Slayer is pretty common and the creators of the game could have just thought of it themselves. If you do have a list of other games that have referenced Berserk I'd love to see it, would make for some good hunting.

A Beherit as a healing item or creature summon would be the best thing ever put into a game, btw.

 

[Aazealh]

Well my point is that your point is wrong...

If you do have a list of other games that have referenced Berserk I'd love to see it, would make for some good hunting.

Well references/homages have been posted in various threads over the years so it's not always easy to find everything, but you can start with this one: http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=4849.0 (move past page 1)

A Beherit as a healing item or creature summon would be the best thing ever put into a game, btw.

I'd like it as something that ups your luck a lot but kills your "holy" stat. Like +50 LCK -50 HLY, something like that.

 

[NTSC-J]

Thanks for the link. I don't really buy that most of those had Berserk in mind; like one of the posters said, it's just a big, flat sword. But that Power Stone 2 DS is it for sure, can't really get around that one. I still dislike the series, but they just won a few points from me. Streets of Rage 2 using Berserk names is pretty funny. I also hadn't realized how FFVII really did bite Miura pretty hard...makes sense to me now why that's my favorite one.

And I think if they do add a Beherit to a game, the player should have to take damage first and bleed on it. Or in a two-player game when one person gets a game over, they use it and it robs the other player of their spare life (like in Contra). These are great ideas, Konami...think about it.

 

[Aazealh]

Thanks for the link. I don't really buy that most of those had Berserk in mind; like one of the posters said, it's just a big, flat sword.

Well that guy pretty much missed the point so I wouldn't take him as an example, and in fact I don't think there's really anything debatable about the references in most of these games. Not just Power Stone 2 but the others I cited as well (PSO, Samurai Western, or even Drakengard... And that's not exhaustive). A few that were posted are unlikely (the WoW picture for example) but that's not the majority, nor does it lessen the fact that the others are obvious. I mean nobody's asking for opinions about it anyway; and no it's not "just a big, flat sword." In the end, that particular style of sword originates from Berserk so you know, I don't think there's much to discuss here. If it's really too hard for you to believe that Berserk is influential enough that people would make references to it in games I can't help it, but you should know that the DS is a one-of-a-kind sword, or at least was when Miura created it.

And I think if they do add a Beherit to a game, the player should have to take damage first and bleed on it. Or in a two-player game when one person gets a game over, they use it and it robs the other player of their spare life (like in Contra).

That's unlikely to happen, I mean references or homages are rarely ever as thorough as that. And beherits don't necessarily require you to bleed on them either. But that's seriously off topic, let's just move back to Portrait of Ruin.

 

[Griffith]

Miura was not the first person to come up with the idea of making a sword oversized, I think that's a great point. Furthermore, I think Miura stole the Dragon Slayer name and design with his time machine, or evil magic, to make his unpopular and never referenced series, Berserk (a word Miura didn't even create, but took from books he's read, like the dictionary). He probably got the idea for Guts from Cloud Strife or some Kenshin stuff.

I feel sorry for all these guys that got ripped off by Miura before they could even do their idea originally, years after him. For shame.

 

[Maiku]

Didn't the Berserker in Lodoss Wars have a huge sword. Pretty sure those novels were also written in the 80s.

....not taking a side just adding to the conversation.

 

[CnC]

Berserk (a word Miura didn't even create, but took from books he's read, like the dictionary)

Seriously, you've got to put some kind of warning in front of lines like this. I nearly got in trouble for reading this and laughing at work.

 

[Aazealh]

Didn't the Berserker in Lodoss Wars have a huge sword.

Not really, it was barely bigger than the main character's longsword, and described as a greatsword (nothing out of the ordinary, just a typical 2-handed sword basically). It can't compare to the DS. And the first novel was published in 1988 (same year than the Berserk prototype) and didn't feature that character (Orson), which is anyway as much the embodiment of an AD&D class than a character in itself, like most of the characters in these books.

So yeah, all in all I don't think that's very relevant, sorry.

EDIT: Here, I even found you 2 shitty screenshots from the anime.

Nothing special as you can see. Anyway guys, I know this discussion is interesting and all, but it'd be cool if we could switch back to Castlevania.

 

[grendelrt]

You guys see the badass pre order bonus? Edit: Ah crap posted on Page 1, missed it sorry.
Pre Ordered mine, the coupon code SAVER will get you free shipping from EB games.

Order Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin for the Nintendo DS and receive a Castlevania 25th Anniversary Gift Pack FREE! Gift Pack includes a Soundtrack CD, DS Stylus, DS Game case that holds 2 games and a Castlevania art book! Offer good while supplies last.

 

[Aazealh]

Order Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin for the Nintendo DS and receive a Castlevania 25th Anniversary Gift Pack FREE! Gift Pack includes a Soundtrack CD, DS Stylus, DS Game case that holds 2 games and a Castlevania art book! Offer good while supplies last.

The more I see this the more I'm pissed off at not being able to get it.

EDIT: Well fuck, EBGames does take international orders on that game, so I'm getting it. It's costing me $65 though. And I'll get the game one month after it comes out where I live.

 

[handsome rakshas]

You guys see the badass pre order bonus? Edit: Ah crap posted on Page 1, missed it sorry.
Pre Ordered mine, the coupon code SAVER will get you free shipping from EB games.

Order Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin for the Nintendo DS and receive a Castlevania 25th Anniversary Gift Pack FREE! Gift Pack includes a Soundtrack CD, DS Stylus, DS Game case that holds 2 games and a Castlevania art book! Offer good while supplies last.

I was going to post about this when I found out but was too ashamed to admit that I missed the opportunity. As of about a week ago the online bonus was put into back order so Grendel and Aaz check your order receipt and make sure it dosen't say back ordered! I preordered at my local Gamestop so I hope the gift pack is not an online exclusive. If so, I will probably hurt myself or someone near and dear to me! Or just pay an outrageous amount on Ebay for it! Yeah, hey I'm I sorry I didn't post the info sooner but I'm really pissed off!