I recently checked out the new manga released by Dark Horse titled "Kurosagi Corpse Delivery Service", and there was one there. So I dunno......Funkmasta Zeph said:Its called a glossary. Common tactic used by other companies.
[quote author=Volume 14 Summary]BayJumper said:Also, notice something interesting about this particular one here. For the first time ever in 3 years, we've been spared those godawful "manga mosh-pits". Instead, in its place we have a nice little paragraph dedicated to Miura's "Berserk: The Prototype".
Well, since you don't know what they are, guess you have no point here, right? Because "GPA", "BAZHM", "GACHING" or "HMMMM" aren't telling you anything more than the original Japanese kana do. In fact they're telling you less.QuestionMark said:I thought the SFX were a bit over the top, but I prefer to know what the sounds are, to having no boxes at all.
I believe the word you're searching for is... "gape". Or perhaps, maybe even, "agape."Funkmasta Zeph said:"GPA" Makes me think of the sound a person might make if they open thier mouthes dramatically.....
I'm sure thats not what it was though...
A sound can't be translated. "Aaaa" is the same sound in every language. It's not even a matter of language, it's just a sound. We're talking about sound effects here. Onomatopoeia. Mimetic words that can represent anything from an actual sound, to an action, a situation or even an emotion (Japanese SFX are categorized, but I'm going to leave that aside for clarity's sake). That's a very important distinction, and it's both surprising and disappointing that you're not making it at this point in the thread since it was brought up in previous posts. A dog will bark the same way no matter what country he's in or what language his owners speak, but people have different sound effects for it in different languages. SFX aren't just sounds, especially in Asian languages. If you don't understand this then I don't think you should keep posting about it.QuestionMark said:Well, yeah, if the sounds are mistranslated-- if the Japanese sound affect doesn't literally translate as the "GPA!" sound-- then that would be what I would call a mistake.
What do you think "Yami no Kemono" sounds like in English? It sounds like "Yami no Kemono." Is that sounding smart or dumb? I'm not sure how you tell. Now, what does it mean in English? That's a more interesting question, don't you think? What applies to real words also applies to SFX.QuestionMark said:But, to me,if that's the sound in Japanese, then whether or not its a dumb sound, I'd like to know what it sounds like in English.
You can't tell if it has meaning or not in your current situation. And once again, we're not talking about sounds here, but SFX. These aren't what you'd hear if what's in the manga happened in real life, and it's why I think this paragraph perfectly highlights your mistake. The sound effects you're describing aren't meaningless in English. You can tell what they mean, even if it's vague and not clearly defined. That's the nature of SFX, and the fact they're not particularly similar to the sound one action or another really makes in real life is totally irrelevant. Don't you understand? No word is directly related to what it depicts (well, save for ideograms I guess). The word "table" in itself doesn't evoke a table, you know what it means because you speak English. The same goes for SFX, both in English and in Japanese. "Gaching" doesn't evoke anything to you because you don't speak Japanese, but to a Japanese person it's "the sound of a hard surface hitting another hard surface" (usually metal). If you wanted to "translate" it in English, it could be something like "clank," "clunk," "clonk," "bonk," etc. Or in the case of apostles snapping their jaws shut while trying to eat Guts, maybe "clack" or something? That is an attempt at translating the SFX. Just writing "gaching" on the page isn't. Now in my mind there's no doubt that the easiest and clearest way to explain and detail stuff like this is through an appendix, as you can't just write whole sentences on the artwork for the sake of explicit SFX, but that's another discussion.QuestionMark said:Does it have meaning?? No, but the sounds are part of the reading experience. I mean, there are all sorts of absurd sound effects in English language comics that have no real relationship to the actual action they are depicting-- "ker-pow", "smash", "blam", "swoosh". What do any of these "mean"? We know how to "read" them, but that's because of cultural history, not because the words are somehow directly related to a real-world equivalent of the moment they're depicting.
Well obviously they're not meaningless in Japanese. Obviously they're indicating something. Why include them otherwise? Just to take up space? Seriously, did you re-read that before posting, or even pay attention to what I said? And are you saying that it doesn't matter if the "English SFX" you like so much are complete gibberish and thus useless to you? Because that's not a very smart point.QuestionMark said:I guess my point is that if "GPA" or other sounds they're using are gibberish, that shouldn't matter-- unless they're not gibberish in Japanese-- which I can't tell from your example.
I'm sorry but that's a pretty stupid opinion, I hope you realize that. It's not like an appendix would hinder your reading experience if you didn't want to use it. To include one or not wouldn't change anything in that case. It can only be beneficial no matter your stance on the subject. And the point wouldn't be to use it as you read, but after the reading, as an in-depth analysis kind of thing. Besides, if you made a minimal effort, it could even help you recognize and understand the original SFX all by yourself overtime. That's not really the question here though, don't think I'm trying to convince you.QuestionMark said:(and to me, having it in an appendix absolutely breaks any flow in the reading experience enough to make it absurd-- don't even include an appendix at all, is my opinion).
Well, why do you think I suggested it in the first place? I think I've already explained enough about all this. It's not a question of mistranslation, it's about simply transcribing words instead of adapting them in English. Take "ドキドキ", I can tell you it's "Doki Doki," but that doesn't mean anything to you. I can also tell you it symbolizes a fast heartbeat, and then a scene of a guy seeing a girl he's got a crush on takes another dimension. There are hundreds, probably thousands of example like this, such as "gooooooo" representing a roaring fire or "go go go go go..." denoting a menacing atmosphere or a threatening situation. Talking about "ゴパ", it's actually a difficult one. Usually people use it when one makes a violent effort, which in this case would be Guts slashing at ghosts with SK's sword. In any case, it sure doesn't mean "GPA" in English, which doesn't mean anything at all.QuestionMark said:I would love to know, though, what the Japanese sound really translates as-- is it a sound only? Or does it have some "meaning" as you were suggesting? If so, what's the meaning? Are we talking about "Gush" or "Ka-ching" or something like that? Just trying to wrap my brain around how they mistranslated the sound, as an example of some of your issues with the SFX in general.
It's a sound effect representing silence. It's not the word "silence" written there and it's not a sound you can hear, it's just a sound effect. Sound effects don't necessarily describe something audible, in spite of how paradoxal that may seem to you at first. You should have known all of this before posting... Anyway, if you're really interested by this stuff, I don't think SK.net is the best place to ask for more information to be honest. We're not SFX experts or anything like that. I recommend you to buy books on Japanese Onomatopoeia, I'm sure that'd answer any question you might have.QuestionMark said:Also, what about the "the sound of silence" SFX-- was it an actual "sound" in Japanese? Or literally "silence", written the way I'll sometimes see "blink, blink" as a FX?
Yeesh, when I asked people to find the meaning of "GPA", I should have included it was a trick question. Perhaps it was too subtle.Aazealh said:FX: ZING!
Wow, they've really outdone themselves. This is so ridiculous it doesn't even make me angry (although it should...). Maybe this is the real reason behind the current Berserk hiatus. That whole statement about putting more detail into the coming episodes was all a ruse, when in reality Miura got a peak at this little summary and hasn't recovered yet.BayJumper said:"Burn, baby, burn!"?! What the fuck is that supposed to mean?! Does this garbage even has anything to do with Berserk?! And what about "toasted readers"?! My God, it seems like Dark Horse is really out of control now. This is just fucking great. Last time, we were served up with "Speak, hands for me!" bullshit that was supposed to be a reference to a Shakespeare play. But now, we get a disco tune. This is really getting on my nerves now. Since vol 14 and 16 do not feature those "manga mosh pits", why does this shit has to return? Now I'm thinking that DH has been intentionally putting this shit up just to piss us off.
Now why would they do something like that? You know they love the fans so much, they'll put fan-pleasing FX boxes all over the art when a humble reader such as yourself sends them some letters.BayJumper said:Now I'm thinking that DH has been intentionally putting this shit up just to piss us off.