Good to see a dedicated thread, also good starter post, but I feel like you should've included both the story and gameplay breakdown from Vaati, for those of us more on the technical side.ryOtoha said:
Yes and no, for all the jumping and grappling, which is very cool moving around the world, when you get down to it with the big boys I'm still just circling, dodging, blocking, parrying, attacking. I'm still feeling that old, familiar frustration, but even moreso really because I haven't yet adjusted to the changes. It's early though, I'm definitely not used to the controls and still find myself doing counter-intuitive things, so we'll see how it feels when I get used to it. Bloodborne was less of a learning curve.Walter said:That all sounds good to me. The videos I've seen make it look like a Souls game with a lot more maneuverability
Again, Bloodborne; how's that going?Walter said:and more importantly, where the objective isn't to just nip the heels of every big enemy, but instead be forced to actively engage them.
Well, it's three straight if the Dark Souls games is specifically what you've been playing (in my mind the series' line of succession is DeS, DS, BB, and now Sekiro). Also, that's only one way to play those games, and my concern with Sekiro is that in trying to eliminate that they may have streamlined and limited other forms of engagement TOO much in the process. We'll see though, my guess is still that there's a lot more layers to this onion and I'll hopefully be in frustrated awe by the end.Walter said:That's an improvement after 3 straight games of rolling between buff dudes' ankles.
I hardly recognized it myself because of the changed names, added standard movement mechanics and the different colored menus.Bleac said:I actually don't think this is all that similar to Souls. They really tried to make a different game this time around and it's immediately obvious you have to play it differently as well. The only things that carry over in my opinion are the characteristic FromSoftware design elements (level design, NPCs, items and descriptions, look and feel), everything else from combat and combat scenarios, story, mobility (jumping, jumping over attacks, on and off of enemies, climbing, swimming, hanging off of ledges, using vantage points, stealth, eavesdropping) are in retrospect, an entirely different set of mechanics. It's easy to oversimplify it.
It's a pretty typical selling point, I'll see how much value it actually holds as I play. I did do a DS3 run once where I was basically invisible to all enemies until I attacked, and sometimes still was after, so there was always other ways to play if you got bored.Bleac said:Also Griffith, a great thing about this game is that you can play however you want and approach situations accordingly, it was after all a pretty big selling point.
I would disagree there thus far, I've been pretty sloppy with mobs and not faced much consequence. So far it's just the tougher enemies requiring multiple deathblows that necessitate more than blunt force or even just an overly-aggressive style. Frankly, a lot of them are annoying. I appreciate the game is basically forcing you to play good defense, but you could always do that before too. Anyway, it's fun and I see great potential to really take Souls combat to the next level, but the jury is still out (I still fear it's changes will feel more constrictive to a certain style than freeing).Bleac said:Using stealth and high places to spot enemies and take them out one by one might prove faster and a lot more satisfying, potentially solving your frustration issues. While the trash mobs are easy to rush down by themselves, they get especially dangerous when grouping up on you, more so than in previous FS games.
The exclusion of armour sets, weapons and other RPG elements is already bound to make it feel more constrictive. Fortunately, the game knows what it wants to be and the developers knew what they set out to do. Testament to the fact that this is nothing like Souls at its core. The freedom is mainly in how you choose to kill your enemies given a strict number of means, but even that will get old. The truth is you're not supposed to pile hundreds of hours in this game. It's meant to be a well crafted linear experience, and based on community feedback it seems to have succeeded in its goal.Griffith said:Anyway, it's fun and I see great potential to really take Souls combat to the next level, but the jury is still out (I still fear it's changes will feel more constrictive to a certain style than freeing).
It's actually got more RPG elements than I expected with the stat points, skill trees, and prosthetic weapon upgrades. I thought it was going to be more SL1/BL4 style.Bleac said:The exclusion of armour sets, weapons and other RPG elements is already bound to make it feel more constrictive.
Right, I can see now it's more of a Bloodborne/Nioh clone.Bleac said:Testament to the fact that this is nothing like Souls at its core.
I like the stealth kills, especially from high places, but it seems like there's a bit of an explicit philosophy that you figure out and use the right tool for the right job than just do as you will. I just hope in their attempt to elevate Souls-style combat with more specific nuances that they don't inadvertently lose the essence of what made it so appealing in the first place.Bleac said:The freedom is mainly in how you choose to kill your enemies given a strict number of means, but even that will get old.
Well, I was kind of hoping it would be more wide open and engrossing like its predecessors, but we'll see. Maybe it will be more that way to me, though so far the story is pretty standard and still leaves me cold, especially following the awesome homespun mythologies of Dark Souls and Bloodborne. But it's only been out a couple of days so I'm holding off on the definitive retrospectives of it and its place in the series' history, for now I'm just enjoying it. =)Bleac said:The truth is you're not supposed to pile hundreds of hours in this game. It's meant to be a well crafted linear experience, and based on community feedback it seems to have succeeded in its goal.
Personally i prefer Bloodborne than DS trilogy. I'm 40h in Sekiro and so far, i love it. Moving so fast, parry every move and dueling with ennemies feels refine and thrilling. The setting is obviously amazing and i feel like Fromsoft find a pleasing balance between world building and tell a story, The verticality is refreshing and i don't feel any loss in term of exploration and progression.Griffith said:Right, I can see now it's more of a Bloodborne/Nioh clone.
It's definitely more like Bloodborne because of the speed, but surprisingly it reminds me most of Nioh, and not just because of the setting but a lot of the mechanics and skill options. It's hard to say if this is complete coincidence, like this was just a logical evolution and Nioh got there first, or if FromSoft took some notes on that interpretation of their work.Tabris said:I've been having a ton of fun with this game. It personally reminds me of a lot of how I'd play Dishonored bur from third person, mixed with a bit of Bloodborne.
It absolutely has the souls DNA. But, while all those games have the same parenthood, this really is the brother of the series that fucked off and did its own thing. Until I see Patches and the Moonlight Greatsword, I'm not sure how connected this will really be (I joke!).
Yeah, so far I'd say the low level enemies and mobs are easier to handle than in Souls, but the mini-bosses and up are a pain in the ass. It's like every big fight is some minor variation of Maria now. I think I started getting the hang of it last night and took out all the bosses and mini-bosses in my way so far (used every trick in the book for one general; lots of ash in the face =).Tabris said:Most of it has been pretty easy so far. It's typically pretty simple to stealth kill. Yet, as usual, there'll pop up a monster of some type that will remind you that you suck at the game and don't know shit. Those learning curves once learned will give you an edge up on the game until you repeat this process on the next thing that kicks your ass.
The Shinobi (Cheesy) Way: Stealth kill all his goons, run away and and repeat as necessary, then stealth hit him for one deathblow, run to summon the samurai in the swamp to make the next deathblow a piece of cake.Tabris said:So far the drunk asshole and Lady Butterfly have been a bit rough. I'm pretty choked at the drunk jackass, since I nearly killed him at one point and he managed to somehow lose agro (I wasn't even stealthing!) inside the house and came back at me with full health. I was not pleased. At all.
I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath because that was immediately engrossing and only got crazier. This is pretty standard fare to start, I'm not crazy about the kid and your motives, and there's already plenty of now thrice re-branded Souls concepts (Dragonrot!). Hope I'm wrong though, I'd be a bit shocked if things didn't get a little bit weirder before it's over, though it doesn't have to be a stealth Bloodborne prequel or anything. =)Tabris said:Cool game though. I'm really hoping it'll do what Bloodborne did later in the game and really open up the world to some amazing sights and mythology.
The Dark Souls games are basically Demon's Souls and Bloodborne clones to be sold multi-platform.ryOtoha said:Personally i prefer Bloodborne than DS trilogy.
This is exactly what I did hah! Though it's pretty easy to quickly slaughter all the guys at once avoiding drunken fuckface. With a good deathblow and the dude to tank, he was a cakewalk.Griffith said:The Shinobi (Cheesy) Way: Stealth kill all his goons, run away and and repeat as necessary, then stealth hit him for one deathblow, run to summon the samurai in the swamp to make the next deathblow a piece of cake.
Eh, it's still limited as far as RPGs go, and I think that is in order to have the player spend as little time as possible in the menus and instead focus on the world, story and the skill based aspects of the elevated combat system.Griffith said:It's actually got more RPG elements than I expected with the stat points, skill trees, and prosthetic weapon upgrades. I thought it was going to be more SL1/BL4 style.
This statement causes me great turmoil.Griffith said:Right, I can see now it's more of a Bloodborne/Nioh clone.
I mean, just because there is a most optimal way to play a game doesn't mean you have to play it that way. The problem with free will in video games in general is pretty much always the same, you're bound by the mechanical constraints of said game.Griffith said:I like the stealth kills, especially from high places, but it seems like there's a bit of an explicit philosophy that you figure out and use the right tool for the right job than just do as you will.
The combat in Souls is fundamentally pretty simple. You have many weapon classes with individual movesets and animations that give you an illusory sense of freedom, but in reality it's all a very grounded system that comes down to 2 pivotal things: spacing and timing. The real freedom in Souls comes from the range of playstyles and builds, but that's where the RPG elements and numbers come in and combat design leaves the equation.Griffith said:I just hope in their attempt to elevate Souls-style combat with more specific nuances that they don't inadvertently lose the essence of what made it so appealing in the first place.