Will Guts be able to control the armour and subdue the beast?

After going through some of the discussion here... This idea struck my mind... As we know, it was guts wound by Slann that provoked the beast... But what if the wound is heal after they reached Elfhelm? Will that mean Guts will be able to control the armour better?

Will Guts be able to tap his power from the beast one day while still remaining conscious (We all know how powerful is the Beast Guts)?

Quick! I need a translator! Babel fish doesn't have idiot to english!


(all in good humor smith)

Kart said:

Quick! I need a translator! Babel fish doesn't have idiot to english!


(all in good humor smith)

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If I can leave you alone... Can you do the same please?

Smith said:

After going through some of the discussion here... This idea struck my mind... As we know, it was guts wound by Slann that provoked the beast... But what if the wound is heal after they reached Elfhelm? Will that mean Guts will be able to control the armour better?

Will Guts be able to tap his power from the beast one day while still remaining conscious (We all know how powerful is the Beast Guts)?

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No I don't think so... In my opinion the Armor and the Beast will get the best of Guts and the story will start heading in a whole new direction. (Like what happened after The Eclipse.)

I don't know if gutts "Taps into" the power of the beast. Because the beast doesn't "offer" power, rather he's a seperate style of fighting, abit rougher, and with use of the armor he is quite abit stronger. But i dont think he offers up any power.


As for whether gutts can control his armor, I think if his wounds get healed he may be able to control it better.

And I think heres another thought, the armor will turn someone into a demon. Does that mean just because he takes the armor off he will no longer suffer any lasting damage from using the armor in the first place?

Hmmm, I doubt his white hair will return to its normal color, if that's what you mean. He may regain some of his senses when he gets to Elfhelm, but there may be some irreversable scars that will never fade away.

Smith said:

But what if the wound is heal after they reached Elfhelm? Will that mean Guts will be able to control the armour better?

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Most probably. Actually I don't think a thread was needed to answer this, it's already been discussed a lot.

-rob- said:

In my opinion the Armor and the Beast will get the best of Guts and the story will start heading in a whole new direction. (Like what happened after The Eclipse.)

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I know you're just speculating, but could you provide us with some facts or elements that lead you to believe this? As well as a more detailed view of what the new direction of the story would be? Also, let's not forget as I've repeated in the past that the Occultation occured during a flashback. Rather than overturning the story, it tied it to the Black Swordsman arc and the present day. And the story will head in a new direction after Elfhelm no matter what happens in there, since their goal was to reach it.

Kart said:

I don't know if Guts "Taps into" the power of the beast. Because the beast doesn't "offer" power

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Indeed, this is a wrong conception. I think it has been explained enough times already. "Power of the Beast"? "Beast mode"? What's with this?

Kart said:

rather he's a seperate style of fighting, abit rougher, and with use of the armor he is quite abit stronger.

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The Beast of Darkness is just the manifestation (personification) of the dark part of Guts' ego. While wearing the armor Guts entrusted himself to it completely and thus fought without any restraints, hurting himself in the process (the armor allowing him to go on fighting, even while wounded).

Kart said:

And I think heres another thought, the armor will turn someone into a demon.

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That's referring to the Beast and the rest (the armor's Od being an everlasting flame, etc). The fact that someone wearing that armor will fight to the death without discernment. He's not going to grow horns or anything.

Kart said:

Does that mean just because he takes the armor off he will no longer suffer any lasting damage from using the armor in the first place?

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Like yota821 said, I doubt his hair to regain its color, but I guess (and hope) he could get some of his senses back to normal, and at the very least they would stop deteriorating.

So you're saying, that the armor will not actually turn someone into a demon and it was just a metaphor?

Kart said:

So you're saying, that the armor will not actually turn someone into a demon and it was just a metaphor?

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Yes, of course.

I say the opposite in that case.

Kart said:

I say the opposite in that case.

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That he'll physically transform into a horned demon in the sense "monster from hell"? Then you're wrong.

Well this is speculation on my part but I guess its possible for the armor to turn you into something other than human, not a demon, but look at skull knight. He donned the armor once and while we dont know if its what lead to his current state of affairs (a hollow armored suit with incredible fighting skills), it might have influenced it or not. Who knows so far...

HawaiianStallion said:

He donned the armor once and while we dont know if its what lead to his current state of affairs (a hollow armored suit with incredible fighting skills)

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Well, at least we know that he's not wearing the Berserk's armor anymore, he's got another one. And the previous owner supposedly died in it, so... Of course, it's hard to predict for sure what the armor's side effects could do on the long term, but to clarify the "demon" thing, the word Schierke uses (鬼神) can have a lot of different meanings, from "ghost" to "freak", and it can be used in a variety of contexts too. What's sure to me is that she didn't imply Guts' body would transform into an apostle-like being.

reading the thread on elfheim, is it possible that skullies current armor came from the elves?

and clarifiy if you would what the translation could have, or may have ment.

I know you're just speculating, but could you provide us with some facts or elements that lead you to believe this? As well as a more detailed view of what the new direction of the story would be? Also, let's not forget as I've repeated in the past that the Occultation occured during a flashback. Rather than overturning the story, it tied it to the Black Swordsman arc and the present day. And the story will head in a new direction after Elfhelm no matter what happens in there, since their goal was to reach it.

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Hmm, can't really say I have many facts. It's just what I really wanna see happen. And like they say, "If you wish for it enough maybe it will actually come true!" Or something like that.

But some things you might find intersting..... Before the Eclipse happened, there was warnings for it right? Zodd in volume 5... Volume 11 had plenty of mentions of the Eclipse..... Well now we are hearing warnings about the Armor right? I need to refresh my memory but Zodd and SkullKnight did BOTH warn what the Armor could do right? It reminds me of the thread Fuxberg made earlier... I think history will repeat itself. We are constantly being reminded about the danger of the Armor, just like how we were constantly reminded about the Eclipse. Plus something sort of like this has been said by Miura: "Now that Guts got the armor, Berserk can truly begin!" Right? Plus on the Beach with the Armor when Guts almost hesitated to attack his own comrades... There are signs popping up everywhere of the Armor getting the best of Guts. Same with the Beast, when he almost raped Caska..... Plus as the "BlackSwordsman" (Volumes 14-27) how would he be able to take out the GodHand? We seen him fail miserably in volumes 3 and 26. He was tough back then, but uncomparably stronger with the Armor. I'm betting the Armor will make Guts the strongest being in Berserk. We barely even seen what it can do yet... Everytime Guts used it he was severly wounded... I just don't see the story ending without it in my opinion.

I hope that was the type of response you were looking for.

Kart said:

is it possible that skullies current armor came from the elves?

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Yes.

Kart said:

and clarifiy if you would what the translation could have, or may have ment.

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Didn't I do that already? I gave you my opinion, and told you that it didn't necessarily refer to the physical aspect of things. There are a lot of ways to take the word, nuances and all, and I'm not a translator. It can mean a "departed spirit", be used to talk about a "haunted house", or some guy being a "demon at work" or an "anime freak".

So as you see, the word is actually closer to what HawaiianStallion was alluding to (SK's state) than to the Judeo-Christian meaning of "demon".

Anyway, what I think she's referring to at the time is simply that by entrusting oneself (important part, it's not just about wearing it) to the flow of the armor's Od, the user will become berserk, to a point where he'll seem inhuman.

We really should only put the most expected outside good reason. I mean look how he's directed the comic so far.

We have 2 years prologue, then we jump all the way back to when he was a kid and follow it through the prologue and further than that. We could see any any amount of things happen from Guts going off on a journey alone because of what the armor is doing to him and not trusting it around comrades, to Casca regaining her sanity and fighting along side Guts, to someone in the party becoming an apostle.

And I dont think him being in perfect health will do much while he's wearing the armor, because he can't feel any wounds so it doesn't matter, right? It could possibly effect his ability to control the beast, but that even seems abit far fetched.

Aazealh said:

Didn't I do that already? I gave you my opinion, and told you that it didn't necessarily refer to the physical aspect of things. There are a lot of ways to take the word, nuances and all, and I'm not a translator. It can mean a "departed spirit", be used to talk about a "haunted house", or some guy being a "demon at work" or an "anime freak".

So as you see, the word is actually closer to what HawaiianStallion was alluding to (SK's state) than to the Judeo-Christian meaning of "demon".

Anyway, what I think she's referring to at the time is simply that by entrusting oneself (important part, it's not just about wearing it) to the flow of the armor's Od, the user will become berserk, to a point where he'll seem inhuman.

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Ah that explains it alot better. So rather then "be a demon" he'd be "like" a demon. And has anyone wondered what skullies thorns and roses signify?

-rob- said:

Before the Eclipse happened, there was warnings for it right? Zodd in volume 5... Volume 11 had plenty of mentions of the Eclipse...

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Yeah, we also knew that Guts would be sacrificed and that Griffith would become Femto long before it happened in the manga. We knew about what beherits were used for. Zodd or SK's warnings to Guts weren't much in comparison.

-rob- said:

Well now we are hearing warnings about the Armor right? I need to refresh my memory but Zodd and SkullKnight did BOTH warn what the Armor could do right?

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Not really, everybody agrees that it's a dangerous object, but nobody told Guts that something would happen for sure, SK just warned him about the side effects, and told him that he wouldn't be able to control it in spite of what he and Schierke were thinking.

-rob- said:

We are constantly being reminded about the danger of the Armor, just like how we were constantly reminded about the Eclipse.

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I don't think it can really compare though, it's two different kind of things. The armor is very dangerous, but the Occultation was prophetized as ineluctable.

-rob- said:

something sort of like this has been said by Miura: "Now that Guts got the armor, Berserk can truly begin!" Right?

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No...

-rob- said:

Plus on the Beach with the Armor when Guts almost hesitated to attack his own comrades... There are signs popping up everywhere of the Armor getting the best of Guts.

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You just cited a moment where Guts didn't control himself. That's the worst it's been so far.

-rob- said:

I'm betting the Armor will make Guts the strongest being in Berserk. We barely even seen what it can do yet...

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Well I think we did see most of what it can do, and I severely doubt that just donning it will make Guts the strongest being in Berserk. Hell, he should be the strongest already.

Kart said:

We could see any any amount of things happen

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Yep.

Kart said:

And I dont think him being in perfect health will do much while he's wearing the armor, because he can't feel any wounds so it doesn't matter, right? It could possibly effect his ability to control the beast, but that even seems abit far fetched.

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The astral wound he got from Slan in the Qliphoth is what always triggers the armor, so having it cured will help, I'm convinced of it. It will also make Guts a lot less dependent on the armor, since the reason he wore it in the first place is because he couldn't fight without it due to his condition (Slan's wound, again). Schierke said that with such a wound a normal human should have been in a coma...

Anyway, normal wounds shouldn't affect it much overall, although fighting without being wounded is always better; I'm sure he won't suffer from fighting without having his limbs and ribs broken.

Kart said:

And has anyone wondered what skullies thorns and roses signify?

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Lots of people did. I personally have been attributing them to Flora since we learned about her. Otherwise we don't have any information, except for episode 261 and Schierke's familiars, which confirm in a way what I've been thinking.

I don't understand one thing though.

HOW would not having any wounds effect the way he fights with the armor on? (without the spiritual wound)

Doesn't it get rid of any pain he would feel?

Kart said:

HOW would not having any wounds effect the way he fights with the armor on?

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I think my previous post covered that point well enough. The armor doesn't heal the wearer, it masks the pain and from what we've seen crudely mends the bones when needed (by transpiercing the body). So while being wounded shouldn't affect someone using the Berserk's armor too much during a fight, essentially it still has repercussions on the wearer (since the armor wounds its user even more when "fixing" his bones), eventually leading to death if he doesn't stop (Guts is tough and look what it did to him). Now, having a couple of flesh wounds or not isn't going to fundamentally change anything... The big deal about Guts' state is the astral wound. Hell, pain never really was a problem to him before anyway.

Kart said:

Doesn't it get rid of any pain he would feel?

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Depends whether he fights or not, and probably also how much he abandons himself in the battle (see his talk with Schierke on the beach).

Yes, yes I understand it. but it doesn't effect his combat ability, which was my original point.