Episode 367

[Xenoskell]

Talking about Sonia, I wonder if she saw Guts or Casca's mind.
If she will reconsider her opinion about Griffith.

Yeah, I know she's completely loyal to Griffith.
And unlike Casca, she doesn't know his weaknesses.
But I think that seeing that terrible vision from the Eclipse would be will impact her in some way.

With this new direction with Koji Mori...
I really wonder if he'll explore this or not.

 

[Walter]

Talking about Sonia, I wonder if she saw Guts or Casca's mind.
If she will reconsider her opinion about Griffith.

Yeah, I know she's completely loyal to Griffith.
And unlike Casca, she doesn't know his weaknesses.
But I think that seeing that terrible vision from the Eclipse would be will impact her in some way.

Sonia needs an arc. And it would be pretty boring for readers if Sonia remained truly loyal to the end, despite her having already expressed despondency over aspects of her relationship with Griffith and those around him. She's perfectly poised to be among the first Falconians to know the truth behind their great leader.

 

[Odysseus]

For as much as I wish there was more dialogue, the more I've looked at this episode in particular the more I wish Guts had no internal thoughts at all. He should be worried about Casca, trying to restrain the armor, being upset and confused about the boy turning into Griffith, etc. Instead we get such riveting thoughts as "One after the next!" and "Bring it!" Lines that are completely inconsequential, which I have to imagine is why they were okay with including them in the first place, but in the current context it makes his priorities seem ridiculous. He seems annoyed, not like his literal worst-case scenario is happening right in front of him.

I know the goal is to not fill in the gaps, but in some cases like this, NOT making assumptions about some things equates to assuming those things don't happen, which leaves characters feeling flat and empty. I'll wait until this group of six episodes is over to really judge, but I'm leaning more and more on whishing we had just gotten that summery instead.

 

[Aazealh]

I know the goal is to not fill in the gaps, but in some cases like this, NOT making assumptions about some things equates to assuming those things don't happen, which leaves characters feeling flat and empty. I'll wait until this group of six episodes is over to really judge, but I'm leaning more and more on whishing we had just gotten that summery instead.

Yeah, we've talked about it earlier in the thread. The problem is that they actually are filling gaps in order to create a manga-like narrative, but since they can't invent things they don't know about, they add literal filler. It denatures the whole thing. I think just drawing the scenes they're confident about and letting the readers connect the dots would have been a better approach, but then they wouldn't be able to pump out 15 pages for Young Animal to publish. No doubt that weighed in the decision.

 

[Odysseus]

I'm really wondering how they could possibly do a whole new arc like this when the cracks in this approach are already so visible just in the wrap up of the ongoing one.

 

[Sir Schraffl]

I'm really wondering how they could possibly do a whole new arc like this when the cracks in this approach are already so visible just in the wrap up of the ongoing one.

It is going to be a bumpy ride.

 

[Walter]

I'm really wondering how they could possibly do a whole new arc like this when the cracks in this approach are already so visible just in the wrap up of the ongoing one.

The episodes closest to Miura’s passing will naturally have the most concrete material. But it's also natural for there to be cracks, given the constraints the team set for themselves to remain as faithful as possible. As a result, we're reading a rough approximation of the flow of the Berserk manga as we knew it. That's the path they chose.

But as the bullet points that Miura transmitted start to dwindle, there's no guarantee that the continuation will proceed exactly like this. These episodes are already getting thin. This episode is 15 pages, down from the traditional 19-21. And it sort of jumps around moments that should have been consequential (Zodd and Guts, and Farnese and Schierke facing Griffith). So, it's not inconceivable that as the direction gets thinner, we could start getting rough, summary-like episodes in the future. That'd be fine with me.

I'd actually prefer they get to that point more quickly because we're getting paper cutouts of moments that should feel impactful. Two examples just from 367: The tree losing its blossoms occurs on just two panels of a single page. It's flat-looking, and it's not clear what's happening. And Guts' attack on Griffith/Casca was similarly confusing, dull, and free of consequence when it should have felt like a big moment.

As I said on the podcast, I'm still enjoying myself through the rhetoric of discussing what's happening and considering the possibilities for what's next. The excitement is mostly in my head. Because the pages themselves as events are portrayed are a little flat. That might just be the new normal for us.

 

[Griffith]

Sonia needs an arc. And it would be pretty boring for readers if Sonia remained truly loyal to the end, despite her having already expressed despondency over aspects of her relationship with Griffith and those around him. She's perfectly poised to be among the first Falconians to know the truth behind their great leader.

And for what it's worth, my impression of her has always been that no otherworldly charm or coercion, like with Mule, was necessary, and maybe not even possible, with Sonia. Her infatuation with Griffith seems genuine and that of a true believer, which may be why he's always paying her special attention, to water that plant, and what could make her especially vulnerable to disillusionment down the line.


Of course, it's also worth nothing Sonia may not be the one to turn on Griffith at first, he may make the first move once he no longer needs her or he anticipates she's becoming compromised or more trouble than she's worth anymore. He has kind of history.

I'm really wondering how they could possibly do a whole new arc like this when the cracks in this approach are already so visible just in the wrap up of the ongoing one.

Well, it might even get easier because there may not be the awkwardness of being butted right up against where Miura's advanced visual storytelling equations ended while essentially just hoping to add up 2+2=4 with the remainder. As many have pointed out, they've taken on a large burden, or possibly done themselves a disservice, presenting this like Miura's Berserk when it can't possibly add up to the sum of those parts, let alone be great in that way.

 

[Kompozinaut]

The last two episodes left me with a fairly good feeling about the project. I wasn't happy with water Griff. It's fine.

But this episode really kind of put me off from the whole thing. People in the thread have posited some really interesting ideas about where Casca's story might go if she's abducted, but I'm really not okay with her getting swept up right now.

Ever since we finally landed on Elfhelm I've been excited for the prospect of Casca returning to form; getting strong again, showing everyone that she's an incredible fighter. I even had big dreams that Casca would teach Farnese how to fight as repayment for all the times she protected her. And more than anything, I've been hoping beyond hope to see her and Guts team up to take down some apostles together.

Abducting her here and now doesn't preclude any of that, of course. There's still time. Or there could be a great story ahead that doesn't involve any of my hopes. But right now, this doesn't feel good to me. Especially so soon after her recovery. I just really don't like it.

And maybe had Miura been the one to draw all of this, I would be bummed, but still openminded about what he was going to do. He never led me astray before. So, I'm probably not being fair to Mori and Studio Gaga, and I hate that, but man, it's hard to get past.

I'm definitely very curious to see what happens next. Maybe Griffith doesn't take her, maybe something awesome is about to happen with the island, but I'm definitely leaning to one side of the fence now.

 

[Griffith]

And maybe had Miura been the one to draw all of this, I would be bummed, but still openminded about what he was going to do. He never led me astray before. So, I'm probably not being fair to Mori and Studio Gaga, and I hate that, but man, it's hard to get past.

I'm being extra cautious not to feel emboldened, to "know better" than Mori and Studio Gaga, in Miura's absence (hell, half the fans thought they knew better than him what Berserk should be =) and to doubly apply the standard I used to with those proclaiming the series' downfall with each new episode release or plot development they didn't immediately like:

Now I wish that said "experts" rather than "critics," because we're all being critics, but none of us are experts on what hasn't happened yet, and that was always my point, patience; the story is a work in progress and incomplete, don't judge the latest episode like it's the last or like you've seen the whole picture.

Anyway, it's been easy for me so far because nothing has truly violated my expectations, Casca being taken this way, or us not getting some huge subplot centering on her recovery and how badass she is, isn't any weirder to me than Zodd following closely behind Griffith. It's more like, "this makes sense," even if it's not necessarily what I wanted as a fan (plus, that was ultimately going to suck anyway, that's why I'm reading Berserk and not writing one my own =). But on that note, another apt paraphrase:

What you wish for may not be what [Miura] wishes for.
 
 Unfortunately, because he's not here to execute his will, we may still never know how this would have all paid off like when he was alive; after all, a shell of Miura's story isn't necessarily Miura's story anymore as we're seeing viscerally illustrated in real time. A plotline Miura would have given tons of depth with lots of meat on the bone might just be the bare bones now, and that's not going to get the same point across, let alone satisfyingly. So, we'll just have to wait and see how to goes, but that's how I've been trying to stay open-minded anyway, can't promise it it will, or should, work.

 

[Walter]

Anyway, it's been easy for me so far because nothing has truly violated my expectations, Casca being taken this way, or us not getting some huge subplot centering on her recovery and how badass she is, isn't any weirder to me than Zodd following closely behind Griffith. It's more like, "this makes sense," even if it's not necessarily what I wanted as a fan (plus, that was ultimately going to suck anyway, that's why I'm reading Berserk and not writing one my own =).

Ssssssure, but... It's pretty rare throughout Berserk that I've been disappointed. And when it's happened, I've expressed it. Yes, even when Miura was still at the helm.

For example—Serpico, Puck, and Azan being sidelined for the development of other characters? I understand why that choice was made. It's a big group. Not everyone gets the spotlight. But I'm nevertheless disappointed at their lack of development over a wide portion of the story. And Casca's abduction, if it does indeed play out that way, is one of those times too. I understand where the story could go, but I'm disappointed that we may not see all the things I had in my head, and where it felt like things were headed.

 

[Aazealh]

after all, a shell of Miura's story isn't necessarily Miura's story anymore

Indeed...

 

[Griffith]

Ssssssure, but... It's pretty rare throughout Berserk that I've been disappointed. And when it's happened, I've expressed it. Yes, even when Miura was still at the helm.

Blasphemer!

Just kidding, but by the way, how weird is it still to say, "when Miura was still at the helm"?

As it becomes clearer his spirit is not in fact guiding them from the great beyond it's only going to become harder to accept.

For example—Serpico, Puck, and Azan being sidelined for the development of other characters? I understand why that choice was made. It's a big group. Not everyone gets the spotlight. But I'm nevertheless disappointed at their lack of development over a wide portion of the story. And Casca's abduction, if it does indeed play out that way, is one of those times too. I understand where the story could go, but I'm disappointed that we may not see all the things I had in my head, and where it felt like things were headed.

Of course, and different strokes for different folks and all that. I may have had something else in my head anyway, or wasn't looking forward to the same thing to the same degree. I could also just be reading more passively, taking what I'm given, and retroactively rationalizing it's how it was meant to be; that certain characters weren't more developed because there wasn't more development for them to be had, etc.

In this case, it's not that I wasn't looking forward to the Casca & The Gang Show... Though, speaking of disappointment, that had already been a bit tempered by her continuing, forced by circumstances beyond their control, estrangment from Guts; which, as we've been saying, I get, but I also couldn't help but feel like gratification had again been delayed or deferred with her and we were just kicking the can down the road some more.

Through that lens, this isn't that unwelcome a change of pace to me, and could even hold some heretofore unexpected potential. Basically, rather than reacting with disappointment for one plot, I was excited by the gravity of this one and the shake up to the status quo (usually when something shocking and unexpected happens we aren't immediately disappointed =). I think we might actually be underplaying the significance of this, sort of handwaving away Griffith fucking taking Casca as "a kidnapping plot, yaaawn." Of course, to bring it full circle, some of that is undoubtedly execution not getting that point across and leaving something to be desired.

And hey, as some are hoping, for all we know she's going to wake up and slap the shit out him or something.

Indeed...

It still bothers me more than anything they didn't use a Miura piece for volume 41's cover. That's where the true muddying of the two projects happened!

 

[DANGERDOOOOM]

I see a lot of arguing over Sonia. I could be remembering wrong, but hasn't she been shown to be telepathic and show people images in their head? Or at least talk to the individual? Couldn't she just have told Zodd in his mind, "hey take a left up ahead and at the very end take a right." when he was traveling through the World Tree?

Perhaps she could be coming with other winged apostles in the next episode or two and Zodd had just rushed ahead.

Guess we will find out eventually

 

[Aazealh]

It still bothers me more than anything they didn't use a Miura piece for volume 41's cover.

Yeah, I don't get it either. There are several existing illustrations of Guts (alone or with the group) that would have been fine for it, and if needed the staff could have added a specific background to make it more topical. My guess is Miura had started working on it and they decided to just finish it, but the result simply feels inauthentic.

Couldn't she just have told Zodd in his mind, "hey take a left up ahead and at the very end take a right." when he was traveling through the World Tree?

The way Sonia describes traveling through the tree, it has endlessly dividing branches and just taking your eyes off the person navigating for a moment would be enough to get lost. It's not something you could get through with simple instructions.

Perhaps she could be coming with other winged apostles in the next episode or two and Zodd had just rushed ahead.

She could already be hanging out with another apostle up in the sky, having been told to wait there. But there would be no real point to keeping that reveal for later. A more interesting possibility would be her coming out somewhere else on the island, on the ground, while Zodd cut the trip short and jumped down right next to Griffith. Would that make sense with the current narrative, though? Either way, we'll know soon enough, but I'm not holding my breath for an explanation.

 

[Stronglight]

Hello masters of the SkullKnight network, have been silently following for much over a decade now. I wanted to share my thoughts now that we are witnessing the most prominent change of tides in Berserk with the Mori takeover.

Berserk is one of the most influential and I presume financially successful mangas of all time and therefore it makes absolute sense (to me) to continue the series. I understand that the purists suggest to let it remain unfinished and after the last three rumbled down episodes they surely have to right to boast around: “told you it will be a rough ride”.

And I have to admit that this rudimentary approach is disappointing. I really hope and wish the team gets more familiarized with the subject (sounds funny but is a difference if you are at the helm) and Miura looks down from above so they will be granted with greater virtuosity in the upcoming months/years.

According to the official declarations for me it sounds like they have the key bullet points and they don’t want to come up with things they do not know for absolute sure. And this is a major problem.

If you ask me they should use those bullet points that they have as barriers and move their plot between those guardrails. Yes. They should rename the new episodes somewhat like Berserk Plus because it will surely differentiate anyway and so that the common reader (who is not an insider like you dear readers of this forum) knows what is going on.

They should move between the guardrails and take comprehensive (as needed) logic steps so it is easier to follow and not try to hop from one bullet point to another which is just very clunky and ruins the entire experience. Sideline stories have been extensively used as a cement material to wall in the pivotal plot bricks ever since. Miura was a master in character development and foreshadowing and if you get rid of all that because you only want to stick to the survived material you won’t get a fluid and very logic Manga – sorry - as the French God Hand Aazealh and the mighty administrator Walter have emphasized very often already.

Miura was also a specialist in combining tiny comic reliefs and dialogs in single panels, which reminds me of Don Rosa, but I know that would be the icing on the cake we cannot demand. But this was the tone of Berserk with lots of on-going running gags and childish jokes that were in stark contrast the brutal other aspects of life. But that is what life is about anyway isn’t it?

So if you want to continue this opus magnum you will surely not reach that exact tone and quality but I think you have to at least try as hard as possible and if it means to recruit external expertise – why not? If the team struggles to come up with a fitting (!) dialog why not ask for advice from some advanced writers in Japan? Maybe even engage another top manga artist for making rough drafts of the pages. The problem is not the drawing quality but the pacing and the allocation of the pictures.

I know it has something to do with ego and pride and on the other side that too many cooks may spoil the broth. But money can solve a lot of problems and I really hope they know that they have only this one chance. After this is settled it will be done.

And if they only want to create a rough clunky experience then I fear that the brand Berserk will eventually suffer, despite all the excuses the devs may write on social media in the near future.

I do not talk about background/evolving stories to all the side characters we’d surely love to see but based on the fact that they know the ending, the major plot twists and the material we already have they could create meaningful sideline stories in order to make it as fluent as possible. It is Berserk Plus anyway and despite the targeted ending nobody knows if Miura wouldn’t have changed it anyway.

We have seen similar kind of projects in the past for example the continuation of the “Game of Thrones” series after the book reference was completed. Although the author was still somewhat on board you could see that there was something off in the precision of the dialog and the finishing touch was simply not there. Nevertheless I think it was a good decision to end it anyway, despite all the criticism.

I wish you the best and thank you very much for the nice podcasts :)

 

[Sir Schraffl]

The French God hand I'm dying

 

[Ascended Jonas]

Ssssssure, but... It's pretty rare throughout Berserk that I've been disappointed. And when it's happened, I've expressed it. Yes, even when Miura was still at the helm.

For example—Serpico, Puck, and Azan being sidelined for the development of other characters? I understand why that choice was made. It's a big group. Not everyone gets the spotlight. But I'm nevertheless disappointed at their lack of development over a wide portion of the story. And Casca's abduction, if it does indeed play out that way, is one of those times too. I understand where the story could go, but I'm disappointed that we may not see all the things I had in my head, and where it felt like things were headed.

If this translation of a interview with Miura from 2019 is accurate when Casca is most likely going to be successfully abducted by Griffith/Femto

Casca has regained her consciousness finally in the recent volume 40 of Berserk. Many fans must have wished and waited for it.

I’m also filled with emotion. However, Casca's real problem has started from now on. She herself should analyze, understand and solve what happened to her. She should confront what Griffith or the monsters did.

 

[Aazealh]

If this translation of a interview with Miura from 2019 is accurate when Casca is most likely going to be successfully abducted by Griffith/Femto

I took the liberty to edit your post, since that's literally a repost of our own translation here on this forum, just through enough hoops that the source is obscured. Speaking of which, @Hitoshura, reposting our translations on Twitter without asking isn't cool.

Anyway Jonas, to answer what you're actually saying... No, it doesn't mean an abduction is more or less likely. With that response, Miura was simply stating that Casca would have to deal with the psychological trauma of the Eclipse. That refers to her repressed memories and the panic attacks she's been having everytime they're brought to the surface. She needs to accept the truth of what happened in order to move forward.

If anything, the part with the most foreshadowing in that interview is this one:

Where are we in the whole story of “Berserk”?

Around the later part. With the revival of Casca, the Chapter of the Elf Island is going to be ended and you can expect very surprising developments after that.

 

[RaffoBaffo]

https://twitter.com/MangaMoguraRE/status/1549339945168674817

 

[Griffith]

https://twitter.com/MangaMoguraRE/status/1549339945168674817

Neat, another color page; I genuinely liked the previous poster of Guts, would make a fine cover for Studio Gaga's work.

Speaking of Young Animal, so the one I got with Miura's last episode, 364, obviously had Guts on the cover and I guess was a tamer issue overall, like I only recall it having bikini girls basically (maybe I just wasn't looking), because when I thumbed through the next one I got with 365/366 it was SO INAPPROPRIATE!! Like, some of the other mangas were straight up softcore porn, if not worse, basically. Another reason the new team's efforts will not be as prominently or proudly displayed in my home, that issue was quickly wedged in the back of the high bookshelf between some dictionaries.

 

[blarpus]

Neat, another color page; I genuinely liked the previous poster of Guts, would make a fine cover for Studio Gaga's work.

Speaking of Young Animal, so the one I got with Miura's last episode, 364, obviously had Guts on the cover and I guess was a tamer issue overall, like I only recall it having like bikini girls basically (maybe I just wasn't looking), because when I thumbed theough the next one I got with 365/366 it was SO INAPPROPRIATE!! Like, some of the other mangas were straight up softcore porn, if not worse, basically. Another reason the new team's efforts will not be as prominently or proudly displayed in my home, that issue was quickly wedged in the back of the high bookshelf between some dictionaries.

I have the issue of young animal that 364 is in as well, unfortunately the work that comes right after Suicide island starting on page 67 is straight up porn

 

[Supreme King Gaizeric]

Speaking of Young Animal, so the one I got with Miura's last episode, 364, obviously had Guts on the cover and I guess was a tamer issue overall, like I only recall it having bikini girls basically (maybe I just wasn't looking), because when I thumbed through the next one I got with 365/366 it was SO INAPPROPRIATE!! Like, some of the other mangas were straight up softcore porn, if not worse, basically. Another reason the new team's efforts will not be as prominently or proudly displayed in my home, that issue was quickly wedged in the back of the high bookshelf between some dictionaries.

I have it as well. It is one of my most prized possessions, currently. I own the CUTIE1 Skull Knight figure as well as a print from the exhibition (unrelated, my apologies. I'm just really excited about my small Berserk collection!) and when I show it to my friends I always make sure to let them know where to start/stop reading because they will find softcore stuff in there.

However - there are a couple manga I found interesting, I'd love to learn more about them but I can't read japanese so I'll have to figure it out somewhere.

Also, a bit unrelated once again but this is my first and only Young Animal issue and my god the art is massive! I love how it all looks, I would've been happy to read Berserk every week/month through the magazine. It all looks so sharp and beautiful, befitting of the master.

I am soaking all of your opinions here, but I have to say - our fate as devoted fans of this manga sure is grim. There are so many times I've wished for Miura to still be with us in this physical realm. It felt like an absolute nightmare last year, and it still does. Having this new adaptation of Miura's intent really really stings when you guys point it out. Kentarou Miura's Berserk is forever gone. We will only get a glimpse of what could've been, and even though I found solace in the fact that we are getting that glimpse to begin with, I sure hope the team takes its time to polish up, or maybe get some people experienced in writing manga and storyboards so we could get a better reading experience moving forward.

 

[4M4M]

Neat, another color page; I genuinely liked the previous poster of Guts, would make a fine cover for Studio Gaga's work.

Speaking of Young Animal, so the one I got with Miura's last episode, 364, obviously had Guts on the cover and I guess was a tamer issue overall, like I only recall it having bikini girls basically (maybe I just wasn't looking), because when I thumbed through the next one I got with 365/366 it was SO INAPPROPRIATE!! Like, some of the other mangas were straight up softcore porn, if not worse, basically. Another reason the new team's efforts will not be as prominently or proudly displayed in my home, that issue was quickly wedged in the back of the high bookshelf between some dictionaries.

My wife already thinks I'm a pervert for the Futari Ecchi ^chapter on YA's issue from last year with Berserk ep. 364...

 

[Odeon]

Can finally comment. Wanted to say that I do like that it continues. I think the work is respectful. all I can say is that I would’ve prefered if this continuation was called “berzerk legacy” or something. To me the dialogue was the most important part of berserk, I just went through all the gore and rape (not really my thing) to be able to see the story progress. It’s probably the most moving story I have ever read, it’s just sad that it now seems mute. I do appreciate the line work, but it’s not why I read it. I’m not seeing this as part of official berserk anyway, personally I would’ve liked if they took some more liberty with the text. We will see.