What the f**k took you so long, Mage?

[SexyCharlotte]

I'm a 35 year old conceited drama queen who relies on her MOM for translations and the Hawks? Jesus what the fuck took you so long to realize the obvious? I've been here on this board over 8 months. I thought you were smarter than that.

LPL

 

[Vampire_Hunter_Bob]

Maybe Genn wasn't so bad after all.

 

[medievald00d]

ya know, you seemed so nice when i joined this bbs...Have you been having a bad week?

 

[Olivier_Hague]

Locked? I was just getting started...
Ah, well, nobody will miss _this_ topic, I guess, so...

Didn't Olivier say in a previous post that translations are OFTEN inaccurate?

No, I didn't.

Shierke did say that the shadow element was either dangerous, hard to control, or unstable

Flora was talking about that, not Schierke.

I care about proving my point that the translation I have says VATICAN and that it was clearly mentioned.

Who cares about what your translation says? It's just a translation. It doesn't prove anything.

Olivier and I seem to be looking at the definition in two different ways: there are different definitions that could cause the translations to differ themselves...

The original word, "Hôôchô", is clear enough.

what makes his the 'right one' and my translation the 'wrong one?'

Simple: your translation doesn't make sense.

Olivier clearly stated that the word VATICAN itself was NEVER USED in the translation.

No, I didn't. I said that the word "Vatican" wasn't used _in the series_. And it isn't.

It's rubbish to YOU because you feel you have to be right.

No, it's rubbish because the translator didn't take the time to think about it.

The Holy See and the Vatican were mentioned in Berserk, end of statement, end of my argument.

And you're wrong.

Why would a wise man be a martyr for Mosguz?

Can't you read? Why would a _wizard_ be a martyr as far as Mozgus is concerned?

How do you explain then how SK knew Slann if there's no 'connection' between Gaiseric, Slann, and Void?

He's been fighting the God Hands for a thousand years. I'm not surprised he knows some things about Slan.

it was Charlotte who mentioned the angels.

No, it wasn't. It was Judo.

I can send you that scanlation as well.

How many times do I have to tell you that I don't care about your translations?

And I can send you the one where Mosguz talks to Farnese and Serpico about the wise man who was being tortured who called down the destruction of the empire as well.

I'm sure you can, but why would you do that?
(as a side-note, Mozgus didn't say anything about the angels destroying Gaiseric's empire)

Now Olivier, either I've got a completely different set of translation DVDs than you

1) I don't rely on translations
2) DVDs? What?

my mother's kanji and Japanese is really bad even though that's her first language

If she thinks that "tenshi" can mean "king", yes, her Japanese is terrible.

He's the one who thinks his translations are set in stone. They're not. No translation is.

Some translations are more accurate than others.

I have someone in my own family whose first language is Japanese and who can read and write kanji more fluently than anyone here on this board, including him.

And still, she thinks that "tenshi" can mean "king"...

Olivier's point was that there was NO MENTION of the specific word Vatican in the manga. I say he's wrong. There was mention of it.

No, there wasn't.

I think everyone agrees there was some connection between SK( Gaiseric) and particularly Slann.

No, we don't agree about that.

this wise man being tortured called down the four/five angels.

Mozgus didn't say anything about the number of angels.

 

[Kart]

she really must be, PMSing or some shit, but oliver, please define what this arguement is about, I see you making two points, one is her translation is wrong, one that you use no translations, there for making yourself above any type of slander of what you read, so we really have no clue what the hell this means without translations, you can say all of theorys are wrong but you really need to make some clearly stated points rather then these responses, not to say either one of you is doing a decent job in this debate.


also, i lookd around abit and found this.



tenshi
(n) angel; (P)


tenshi
(n) the emperor


tenshi
(n) nature; natural elements


tenshi
(n) heavenly gift; imperial gift


There ya go

 

[Olivier_Hague]

you really need to make some clearly stated points

I believe I do?

tenshi
(n) angel; (P)

That's the one.

 

[Kart]

I'm referring more to the fact you said her mother is terrible at japanese, when "emeror" (also known as a king) was listed under tenshi.

your points arn't getting accross very clearly, I cannot understand any of this, the points have gotten mixed in with ego, And also the fact it says "natural elements" make it's just as possible the four elements were the ones who destroyed geasrics kingdom.


and if you take into account Vatican also is the official residence of the pope.


The official residence of the pope in Vatican City.
The papal government; the papacy.


then add in what the pope can mean

often Pope Roman Catholic Church. The bishop of Rome and head of the Roman Catholic Church on earth.
Eastern Orthodox Church. The patriarch of Alexandria.
The Coptic patriarch of Alexandria.
The male head of some non-Christian religions: the Taoist pope.
A person considered to have unquestioned authority: the pope of surrealism


You can have vatican basically mean the city in which the religious leader resides.

so a person well aware of the meaning of words could have simple used Vatican because he thought the obvious leader of such a religion would be a pope.


Note, The reason i'm arguing in this is because I feel too much ego is clouding the truth. (I'm not taking sides)

 

[Aquedesin]

Well "Tenshi" is kinda godlike or divine and thus reference better to angels, _but_ the Emperor of Japan (which is not a mere king but an Emperor) was suppose to be the son of the sun god if I recall correctly and thus of divine birth. That's why Tenshi may be use for emperor but only in the particular case of the Japanese Emperor. (After, some people may argue that most king were king by divine right...)

 

[Olivier_Hague]

I'm referring more to the fact you said her mother is terrible at japanese

Well, yeah.

when "emeror" (also known as a king) was listed under tenshi.

You mean "emperor"? That's another "tenshi" word. Different kanji.

And also the fact it says "natural elements"

Again, different kanji.
The "tenshi" we're talking about means "angel". And that's all.

and if you take into account Vatican also is the official residence of the pope.

In our world, yes. In the world of "Berserk", why would they call the Holy See "the Vatican"?

then add in what the pope can mean

What's the point? We know what kind of "pope" we're talking about, here.

You can have vatican basically mean the city in which the religious leader resides.

In our world, yes. In the world of "Berserk", it wouldn't make sense.

so a person well aware of the meaning of words could have simple used Vatican

Again, that's like calling any department of defense "the Pentagon", even when there's absolutely nothing "pentagonal" about it. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Aquedesin]

OK, I think (thus I am, oups sorry) I have finally understood your tenshi point of view olivier. May the various signification of the same word tenshi may be linked to different kanji explaining which signification is meant?

 

[Mage]

So not only are you insecure enough to PM me with this very same stupidity, you start a whole new thread about it, too! Haha, the truth must really hurt! And what, do you think I sit here memorizing the life story of every poster? If you must know, I completely ignored your rambling posts early on because they lacked the slightest common sense and I figured you were another crazy-ass incoherent foreigner like your name-sake (hence your nonsensical blathering). But with your recent posts being so -amazingly- absurd, I then checked your profile just to make sure, and found that not only do you live in an english speaking country, you're a middle-aged adult!

YOU'RE A THIRTY FIVE YEAR OLD WOMAN BICKERING ENDLESSLY ABOUT STUPID SHIT ON AN INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD, BRAGGING ABOUT YOUR SENIOR CITIZEN MOM'S TRANSLATIONS.

TOO BAD YOUR MOM DIDN'T GIVE YOU SOME OF THIS, TOO, GOD KNOWS YOU NEED IT!!!

 

[Olivier_Hague]

May the various signification of the same word tenshi may be linked to different kanji explaining which signification is meant?

Yes. They're different words. They may _sound_ the same, but the kanji (and meanings) are different.

 

[Fishbomb]

Yes. They're different words. They may _sound_ the same, but the kanji (and meanings) are different.

Which is honestly the thing I have most trouble with now that I'm learning japanese. The written is fine (I've passed the 300 kanji line and... there's still scarily many to go) but the spoken... so many words are pronounced exactly the same that it is easy for a beginner to get confused. Often I have learnt one meaning of a word and then a sentence doesn't make sense at all. Until I look it up and finds three other words which sound the same but is written with different Kanji.

Guess actually trying to learn the language has made me a whole lot more humble wbout how bloody difficult it is to translate properly.

And yeah... *grins* I know my weak spot there too... *pets lil' G*ttsu*...

 

[Kart]

Mage, this isn't concerning you, please just, go away, no one is talking to you and no one is bugging you, were arguing with eachother.


As to "why would they call the holy see the vetican"

Holy See
n. Roman Catholic Church
The see of the bishop of Rome.
The authority, jurisdiction, and governmental functions associated with the papacy.


There ya go, a perfectly good reason right there. and you can also assume there is a pope to this entire religious order just purly because it resembles the vatican so closely.


(PS, the papacy is a papal government)

 

[Olivier_Hague]

There ya go, a perfectly good reason right there.

Where?

and you can also assume there is a pope to this entire religious order

There's nothing to assume. The Pope ("Hôô") is mentioned in volume 1, page 170.

 

[Vampire_Hunter_Bob]

Mage, this isn't concerning you,

She did make a thread directed to him, so it does concern him.

 

[Walter]

There are people still trying to prove Olivier wrong? Pffff, amateurs.

 

[IgnusDei]

Methinks that if Miura wanted the holy see to be called the vatican, he'd have called it vatican and spelled it in katanaka (is that what it's called? i forget), or he'd have used an actual japanese word for vatican. since he used neither, it's safe to assume that the seat of the monotheist faith in the miuraverse is NOT called the Vatican.

Also note that Vatican and Holy See, as Olivier is trying to point out, are not synonyms. While the connection can seem as such, "Vatican" is to "holy see" as "tommy" is to "human", or "St Helens" is to "Volcano".

 

[Mage]

Mage, this isn't concerning you, please just, go away, no one is talking to you and no one is bugging you, were arguing with eachother.

Hey, dumbass, I think an entire thread ADDRESSED to me could, just ever so slightly, concern me. If people want to argue semantics in a thread titled "What the f**k took you so long, Mage?" they can go ahead; but I can damn well respond to the first post at the least.

 

[Kart]

true, i apologize for that.

 

[Radzeke]

AVAST! THAT IS ALL TRUE MAGE! PEOPOLE KEEP GETTING INVOLVED THAT NEED NOT! OF COURSE ITS OKAY FOR ME TO GET INVOLVED BECAUSE IM THE ADMIN AND THEREFORE EVERYTHING THAT GOES ON ON THIS BOARD IS MY BUSINESS!!! SO MIND YER OWN OR I’LL SLAP YOU!! BTW, GOOD POST INGUS_GAY! YOU SEEM TO HAVE SOME KIND OF STRANGLEHOLD GRIP ON REALITY, WHICH JUST PROVES MY THEAORY THAT THE BIGGER THE AVATAR, THE SMARTER THE GUY!!!HAHA! UNLIKE THE REST OF THESE GUYS! FOR THE FIRST TIME I LOOKED IN A DIFFERENT SECTION BESIDES THIS ONE AND CURRENT EVENTS AND REALIZED EVERYONE HERE IS A TOTAL NERD! IN THAT SPECULATION STATION SECTION THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT WHO IN BERSERK SHOULD MARRY WHO AND IF ZOODO WOULD BEAT GRUNBELD IN A PIR EATING CONTEST AND IF GUTS WEARS BOXORS OR BRIEFS! IT WAS EMBARASSING! NERDS!!!!

SKuLL LoRD ------)----@

 

[SexyCharlotte]

ya know, you seemed so nice when i joined this bbs...Have you been having a bad week?

Actually I'm having a great week. And I'm not really that nice of a person.

LG

 

[SexyCharlotte]

she really must be, PMSing or some shit, but oliver, please define what this arguement is about, I see you making two points, one is her translation is wrong, one that you use no translations, there for making yourself above any type of slander of what you read, so we really have no clue what the hell this means without translations, you can say all of theorys are wrong but you really need to make some clearly stated points rather then these responses, not to say either one of you is doing a decent job in this debate.


also, i lookd around abit and found this.



tenshi
(n) angel; (P)


tenshi
(n) the emperor


tenshi
(n) nature; natural elements


tenshi
(n) heavenly gift; imperial gift


There ya go

Typical male response to talk about PMS. Did it occur to you that your level of testosterone remains constant all month long to make you a basic jerk?

Your mother had PMS. That's probably why she decided to get down with your dad and get herself knocked up with you.

Quit using the PMS shit as some kind of broad explanation for a woman holding her own no matter what you've been taught by society.

 

[SexyCharlotte]

Locked? I was just getting started...
Ah, well, nobody will miss _this_ topic, I guess, so...No, I didn't.Flora was talking about that, not Schierke.Who cares about what your translation says? It's just a translation. It doesn't prove anything.The original word, "Hôôchô", is clear enough.Simple: your translation doesn't make sense.No, I didn't. I said that the word "Vatican" wasn't used _in the series_. And it isn't.No, it's rubbish because the translator didn't take the time to think about it.And you're wrong.Can't you read? Why would a _wizard_ be a martyr as far as Mozgus is concerned?He's been fighting the God Hands for a thousand years. I'm not surprised he knows some things about Slan.No, it wasn't. It was Judo.How many times do I have to tell you that I don't care about your translations?I'm sure you can, but why would do that?
(as a side-note, Mozgus didn't say anything about the angels destroying Gaiseric's empire)1) I don't rely on translations
2) DVDs? What?If she thinks that "tenshi" can mean "king", yes, her Japanese is terrible.Some translations are more accurate than others.And still, she thinks that "tenshi" can mean "king"...No, there wasn't.No, we don't agree about that. Mozgus didn't say anything about the number of angels.

And I'm the one here who has to get the last word in? Dude, that thread was locked, I'm not even going to take it any further. You're the one who decided to. I'm done arguing with you because we're not on the same page or even the same mindset about translations and definitions.

 

[SexyCharlotte]

So not only are you insecure enough to PM me with this very same stupidity, you start a whole new thread about it, too! Haha, the truth must really hurt! And what, do you think I sit here memorizing the life story of every poster? If you must know, I completely ignored your rambling posts early on because they lacked the slightest common sense and I figured you were another crazy-ass incoherent foreigner like your name-sake (hence your nonsensical blathering). But with your recent posts being so -amazingly- absurd, I then checked your profile just to make sure, and found that not only do you live in an english speaking country, you're a middle-aged adult!

YOU'RE A THIRTY FIVE YEAR OLD WOMAN BICKERING ENDLESSLY ABOUT STUPID SHIT ON AN INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD, BRAGGING ABOUT YOUR SENIOR CITIZEN MOM'S TRANSLATIONS.

TOO BAD YOUR MOM DIDN'T GIVE YOU SOME OF THIS, TOO, GOD KNOWS YOU NEED IT!!!

LOL how can the truth hurt if I already know it? Sorry, sweetcheeks, but I was never one to shy away from my own faults and flaws.

Oh, and by the way, hon, I find it hard to fathom that you can SIMULTANEOUSLY ignore my posts and yet, be able to describe them as rambling and incoherent. You can't ignore and describe something at the same time. So you just put your foot in your own mouth...damn!! And here I am 35 and even I can figure out your hypocrisy. Yes, I'm sure you ignored my posts...AFTER you read them. LOL