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Community => Shootin' the Breeze => Movies, TV, Books & Music => Topic started by: Aazealh on November 28, 2014, 02:38:33 PM

Title: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on November 28, 2014, 02:38:33 PM
Star Wars: The Force Awakens trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOVFvcNfvE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOVFvcNfvE)

I'm not excited.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: IncantatioN on November 28, 2014, 03:05:19 PM
Same, that looked weak. Sounds like Benedict Cumberbach's voice in the trailer. That light saber looks cool but wonder what the purpose of the two lateral beams are, maybe it has an advantage in close combat when both users are close to each other.

Should we have a separate Star Wars topic, bet there'll be a lot to discuss in the months to come!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on November 28, 2014, 03:44:29 PM
I thought it looked awesome. Can't wait!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: ryOtoha on November 28, 2014, 03:53:37 PM
Never been a Star Wars fan but i got to say, i'm pretty interested to see what Abrams will do with this franchise. Can't be as bad as the previous films.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on November 28, 2014, 04:02:35 PM
Star Wars: The Force Awakens trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOVFvcNfvE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOVFvcNfvE)

I'm not excited.

I don't blame you. There's nothing to be excited about in that teaser. It's indicative of nothing other than that a new Star Wars movie is coming. That narration was truly awful, though...

That light saber looks cool but wonder what the purpose of the two lateral beams are, maybe it has an advantage in close combat when both users are close to each other.
More likely that's the lightsaber version of the guard on a longsword.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Joe Chip on November 28, 2014, 04:29:23 PM
Sounds like Benedict Cumberbach's voice in the trailer. That light saber looks cool but wonder what the purpose of the two lateral beams are, maybe it has an advantage in close combat when both users are close to each other.
Yeah that sure sounds like Benedict.
I'm sure that they wanted to add a new light saber design, so they came up with this variation. I don't really like it though.

I thought it looked awesome. Can't wait!
Ditto, i'm really excited for this movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Salem on November 28, 2014, 04:41:47 PM
That light saber has been in the star wars universe for a long time, just not in the movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: asic on November 28, 2014, 04:43:19 PM
Kinda lackluster teaser it didn't hype me at all. Besides the Zweihander Dark Souls saber scene there wasn't any atmospheric shots to bring me into the Star Wars mood. Still it's nice seeing new Star Wars nonetheless.

Btw the "LightZweihander" (that's what I'm gonna call it from now) is not a new thing, I believe it's in a Star Wars book or comic so it's nice to see something new and a sword that would be quite handy in duels given the weight of Lightsaber vs LightZweihander probably isn't that different compared to a katana vs medieval style swords.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: JoeZeon on November 28, 2014, 05:04:45 PM
88 seconds of not very much. I like JJ Abrams work so I'll have to wait and see. Still, that x-wing shot though.....
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on November 28, 2014, 06:52:09 PM
Still, that x-wing shot though.....

I thought that was actually the most informative shot we got, in terms of Abrams' interpretation of Star Wars. I liked it. Didn't care for anything else though.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on November 28, 2014, 07:00:53 PM
Looks like the EU is strong with this one (the only significant reveal is confirmation that dumbsaber from the lowest depths of glorified EU fanfiction is real, yikes)! Due to them just having wrapped I wasn't expecting much and that's what was delievered (actually, it showed more than I thought, but just nothing important). It was sort of a throwback in that today usually trailers are more tightly produced than the films themselves, and this was clearly just what they had lying around. Almost like a fan trailer really, when I heard Cumberbatch I questioned whether I was watching the real thing. Anyway, there was an easy way to make this special, and that was to end it with old bearded Luke on screen, no fan could have resisted, but they went with a cgi B shot of the Millenium Falcon more reminiscent of the prequels than the flesh and blood they're supposedly trying to restore to the franchise. So, that was a missed opportunity to create a moment out of this. I mean, would that have been so hard or revealing (unless he's holding the dumbsaber and wearing spanx)? I'm not all down on it though, it looked like Star Wars and like I said I don't think this trailer is indicative of the final product either way; whether you were optimistic or skeptical, I didn't see anything to change your mind. The name is less stupid if the force has in fact been dorment or something for 30 years, but now the DAHRK SEYED has returned! :magni:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on November 28, 2014, 07:05:01 PM
Should we have a separate Star Wars topic, bet there'll be a lot to discuss in the months to come!

Alright.

That light saber looks cool but wonder what the purpose of the two lateral beams are, maybe it has an advantage in close combat when both users are close to each other.
I'm sure that they wanted to add a new light saber design, so they came up with this variation. I don't really like it though.
That light saber has been in the star wars universe for a long time, just not in the movies.

Yeah I'm not a fan of that design either. It might have been in the EU but it's still terrible (the EU was scrapped for a reason :iva:). A traditional guard is meant to protect the hands and to lock the opponent's sword, but here because of how a lightsaber works it has a big design flaw: the cross-section for the guard, the place the opposite blade naturally comes to rest in, is vulnerable...

the "LightZweihander" (that's what I'm gonna call it from now)

This doesn't look particularly like a Zweihander... It just has a guard.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on November 28, 2014, 07:12:02 PM
Anyway, there was an easy way to make this special, and that was to end it with old bearded Luke on screen, no fan could have resisted, but they went with a cgi B shot of the Millenium Falcon more reminiscent of the prequels than the flesh and blood they're supposedly trying to restore to the franchise.

God, you're right... even my cold heart would have been swayed for that.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on November 28, 2014, 07:28:45 PM
Yeah I'm not a fan of that design either. It might have been in the EU but it's still terrible (the EU was scrapped for a reason :iva:). A traditional guard is meant to protect the hands and to lock the opponent's sword, but here because of how a light saber works it has a big design flaw: the cross-section for the guard, the place the opposite blade naturally comes to rest in, is vulnerable...

Yeah, purely decorative, and it could have worked if it were just a regular lightsaber handle with two extra beam holes on the sides with little metal hand guards underneth, protecting the users hands and the handle from other lightsabers; they could have even played around with the lengths and which one is the "primary" blade at any given time). Btw, notice how the blade looks all rough around the edges too? Clearly a less refined lazer metal! I can't wait for the light-Dragon Slayer and light-nunchuks.

God, you're right... even my cold heart would have been swayed for that.

Yeah, that should have been a no-brainer, it was basically all I was expecting out of this. That's the most worrisome indicator here concerning their decision-making (though Abrams has proved surprising unsavvy with marketing in the past, e.g. Khan). The only decent explanation is they didn't want to cash in that chip already, but fuck that I'd go to that well early and often. It's like they're trying to minimize the hype.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on November 28, 2014, 07:33:37 PM
It's like they're trying to minimize the hype.

Well it is still a year away, so I can see why they'd want to wait till, say, Q2 2015 before showing some of the real goodies.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on November 28, 2014, 09:00:31 PM
Well it is still a year away, so I can see why they'd want to wait till, say, Q2 2015 before showing some of the real goodies.

Sounds like the Lakers strategy this year, "Don't go for the slam dunk!" I just don't know if they're aiming low to manage expectations like you say or if they really think this IS awesome. I think they think they can get away with anything marketing-wise and it'll work, and they're probably right (in any case it's unimpressive by today's standards, and I would have seized the moment). Also, more importantly for future returns, now I worry the reason they didn't reach for that piece of low hanging fruit is they've already picked a lower one and Luke is in that Darth Maul 2.0 costume, possessed by the awakened ghost of Siddius or something! :troll:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: buttonmasher on November 29, 2014, 01:24:22 AM
I was reading another thread where they hypothesized a few reasons for that light saber.  The first idea is that it is meant to be a guard but the emitter is inside and not in any danger of being damaged by an opposing saber.  The protrusions on the sides of the saber are acting as protection for the wielder so as to not accidentally slice his hand in half.  The other idea was perhaps this is an ancient, custom,  or amateur job and the saber requires venting because it is over powered and the creator improvised this solution.


I'm a big fan of redlettermedia, especially their reviews of the prequels.  Not everyone's cup of tea but I highly recommend them as they take the films to task in a straight up film analysis while being very entertaining.  I also enjoyed The People Vs. George Lucas.  I am anticipating the film just because I think it has to be better than the prequels and i can watch Star Wars again without getting angry!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on November 29, 2014, 02:09:34 AM
I was reading another thread where they hypothesized a few reasons for that light saber.  The first idea is that it is meant to be a guard but the emitter is inside and not in any danger of being damaged by an opposing saber.  The protrusions on the sides of the saber are acting as protection for the wielder so as to not accidentally slice his hand in half.  The other idea was perhaps this is an ancient, custom,  or amateur job and the saber requires venting because it is over powered and the creator improvised this solution.


I'm a big fan of redlettermedia, especially their reviews of the prequels.  Not everyone's cup of tea but I highly recommend them as they take the films to task in a straight up film analysis while being very entertaining.  I also enjoyed The People Vs. George Lucas.  I am anticipating the film just because I think it has to be better than the prequels and i can watch Star Wars again without getting angry!

If you want to watch Star Wars without getting angry, watch seasons 1-6 of Clone Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Skeleton on November 29, 2014, 04:45:21 AM
I liked the shot of the X-wings.

The Millennium Falcon didn't do anything for me.  I didn't like or dislike it.

I wasn't a big fan of the (I assume) Tatooine scenes.  They remind more of Episode I's Tatooine than Episode IV/VI's Tatooine which isn't a good thing.  I kind of wish the movie wouldn't revisit that planet.  But the two people who shook up the Star Wars universe the most started on Tatooine so maybe they're giving a nod to that fact by having the new protagonist(s) start there?

For the record, I hate strongly dislike the new lightsaber design.  :femto:

All in all, my level of excitement is "meh" right now.  We will see how it goes when new information comes out.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on November 29, 2014, 10:30:03 AM
I was reading another thread where they hypothesized a few reasons for that light saber.  The first idea is that it is meant to be a guard but the emitter is inside and not in any danger of being damaged by an opposing saber.  The protrusions on the sides of the saber are acting as protection for the wielder so as to not accidentally slice his hand in half.

(http://i.imgur.com/4ZrWQ30.jpg)

Look though, you see how the hilt itself isn't protected? It would be exceedingly easy for an adept opponent to cut through it.

Yeah, purely decorative, and it could have worked if it were just a regular lightsaber handle with two extra beam holes on the sides with little metal hand guards underneth, protecting the users hands and the handle from other lightsabers

Yup.

I just don't know if they're aiming low to manage expectations like you say or if they really think this IS awesome. I think they think they can get away with anything marketing-wise and it'll work, and they're probably right (in any case it's unimpressive by today's standards, and I would have seized the moment).

Well, like I told Walter yesterday, my two immediate male coworkers, who are not in any way big Star Wars fans, had noted the exact time the trailer was going up and proceeded to frantically search for it, declaring it awesome as soon as they'd seen it. Marketing and a big legacy will do wonders.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Salem on November 29, 2014, 11:26:56 AM
I'm not in the group of people who thought the pineapple express was hilarious,  but as soon as I saw that light saber that's all my mind could see.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: IncantatioN on November 29, 2014, 02:21:26 PM
Sounds like Benedict Cumberbach's voice in the trailer.

Correction - Andy Serkis is who we hear in the trailer.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Skeleton on November 30, 2014, 01:57:34 AM
"There's been an awakening.  Have you felt it?  The dark side . . . And the light."
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/c9867ac7a9453dae6bb42de91062c717/tumblr_nfs242WfuN1r88u00o1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: IncantatioN on November 30, 2014, 02:16:44 AM
From 1 pyyyzzcccccssshhhhhhuuu to 3 now ...

Original trilogy baddie

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/121031085533-darth-vader-story-top.jpg)

Second trilogy (partial) baddie

(http://cdn3.whatculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/darth-maul1.jpg)

New trilogy baddie

(http://filmonic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Star-Wars-The-Force-Awakens-sith-saber.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on November 30, 2014, 02:47:48 AM
I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't give a shit about how the saber looks=/
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on November 30, 2014, 03:06:52 AM
Look though, you see how the hilt itself isn't protected? It would be exceedingly easy for an adept opponent to cut through it.

Or you have to be so adept to effectively block with it there's little point. As designed it really only makes sense offensively for cutting other lightsaber handles or to give your opponent something else to worry about up close. (and to look kewl =). I'm sure it'll work for Luke... I mean, the mysterious Sith guy!

BTW, if anyone is curious what he may look like, an image of him with that sword has been floating around for a while.

Well, like I told Walter yesterday, my two immediate male coworkers, who are not in any way big Star Wars fans, had noted the exact time the trailer was going up and proceeded to frantically search for it, declaring it awesome as soon as they'd seen it. Marketing and a big legacy will do wonders.

Yeah, but I was stating what would have actually made it worthy of such praise and excitement. And I saw plenty of acquaintances online declaring it incredible as well. These were the same people telling me how Phantom Menace wasn't so bad 15 years ago. Once again, time will tell (except for me, I'll know right away again =).

I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't give a shit about how the saber looks=/

Not the best perspective for constructive analysis. Your previous statement implies you think it looks "awesome" though. :guts:

Which isn't necessarily a bad position, I think it looks neat myself if a bit anachronistic (that whole shot looks like Star Wars crossed with The Hobbit), it's just so clearly about style and change for the sake of change over any kind of sense. Not that that's ever been a problem in Star Wars, the series that brought us Imperial walkers and two fatally flawed Death Stars.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: IncantatioN on November 30, 2014, 03:17:26 AM
I love the sith and this light saber I'll admit looks cool. How it's used in battle is left to be seen but I don't know if I'll like it. I loved the way the original series handled saber battles, especially Darth Vader's style (uses the force a lot more) or even Luke's in episode VI. The saber fights had less flashy acrobatic light weight swinging moves aka episodes 1-3.

Do you think the rule of two is unfair since there can be a whole lot more jedi masters in comparison? How does that work.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on November 30, 2014, 03:41:49 AM
I love the sith and this light saber I'll admit looks cool. How it's used in battle is left to be seen but I don't know if I'll like it. I loved the way the original series handled saber battles, especially Darth Vader's style (uses the force a lot more) or even Luke's in episode VI. The saber fights had less flashy acrobatic light weight swinging moves aka episodes 1-3.

Do you think the rule of two is unfair since there can be a whole lot more jedi masters in comparison? How does that work.

No, Darth Bane instituted it because there was constant in-fighting within the Sith order, so it made a ton of sense. The only one to not follow it to a T was Sidious. He trained several (Maul, Dooku, Anakin), but never fully took on the rule until Vader came into play, and even then he was ready to get rid of him in favor of Luke possibly succumbing to the dark side.

Once Sidious killed his master, Plagueis, he embraced the rule of One because he thought the Rule of Two was unnecessary. He made it his because he destroyed the Republic one move at a time over the course of 50 years.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on November 30, 2014, 03:54:54 AM
I hate all that stuff about as much a midichlorians, honestly. This whole thing is bringing out my elitist original trilogy only mentality, where none of that exists. When they first discussed there only/always being two, a master and an apprentice, I just assumed it was a vague way to say it's a safe assumption there's another out there because there's always a master and apprentice in such relationships, even with Jedi. For all I know that may have been all George Lucas' intended but then obsessive nerds and EU writers had to quantify the shit out of it (or he took from them like the Anakin/Obi-wan fight).
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Skeleton on November 30, 2014, 04:42:39 AM
I like the Sith as much as the next guy, but a large part of me hopes they are gone for good with the deaths of Palpatine and Vader.  They had a good run (kicking around for thousands* of years ain't bad), but I think there's better directions to go in by making the next generation of baddies dark Jedi who aren't affiliated with the Sith Order.

As far as why I don't like the new lightsaber?  I think Griffith hit the nail on the head.  The changes serve no practical purpose so what's the point?  Plus I'm not a big fan of how it looks.  It looks cool enough that I'd drool over it if it was a magic sword in a fantasy game.  But as a lightsaber in Star Wars?  Eh.  But then again, compared to the EU's lightwhip this new lightsaber design is a work of art so maybe it's not that bad.   :ganishka:

*Before they made the EU non-canon, of course.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on November 30, 2014, 11:01:29 AM
I like the Sith as much as the next guy, but a large part of me hopes they are gone for good with the deaths of Palpatine and Vader.  They had a good run (kicking around for thousands* of years ain't bad), but I think there's better directions to go in by making the next generation of baddies dark Jedi who aren't affiliated with the Sith Order.

And in the original trilogy that's all Vader and Palpatine were as far as anyone knew. All the dark lords of the Sith crap was the EU and the prequels, and it's not like it was great stuff (rule of two, rule of one; sounds like rules for the bathroom). It basically just made the dark side of the force and the Star Wars universe seem smaller.

Plus I'm not a big fan of how it looks. It looks cool enough that I'd drool over it if it was a magic sword in a fantasy game. But as a lightsaber in Star Wars?

Yeah, that's the problem I have with it, it looks too much like some fantasy sword, or a lightsaber ripoff.

*Before they made the EU non-canon, of course.

Eh, in my mind the EU is just as canon as it ever was for better or worse, and this movie isn't necessarily any more so. Like those other works, the only thing that will legitimize this is its quality.


Anyway, just for fun here's a mock up of the trailer with Luke added (skip to about 50 seconds in if you don't want to watch the whole thing again):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzFC5Xk7cBc
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Delta Phi on November 30, 2014, 03:33:29 PM
Belaboring the point to include my (worthless) $0.02. I hate to be that guy, but I really liked the lightsaber, even though it was basically the Darth Maul lightsaber reveal all over again, and was significantly less exciting. :schierke:

Then again I was 7 or 8 when I saw the first trailer for Episode I, and even The Phantom Menace seemed like it was a great movie until I watched it again in high school.

That said, I immediately questioned the cross guard's practicality and thought it would probably be more dangerous to the user than the opponent, not to mention the design doesn't even allow it to function in the intended way. Wonder if they'll fix it in post after all the fans have finished complaining about it.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on November 30, 2014, 04:35:16 PM
Wonder if they'll fix it in post after all the fans have finished complaining about it.

If they follow in the foot steps of Lucas, then no, no they won't.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on November 30, 2014, 07:07:55 PM
Wonder if they'll fix it in post after all the fans have finished complaining about it.

I don't think there's been that much of an outcry, just the gentle ribbing and nitpicking the Internet is made of. The reception overall seems pretty positive.

If they follow in the foot steps of Lucas, then no, no they won't.

But Lucas was the one changing everything, we just wanted him to stop. Speaking of which, Episove VII Special Edition Trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v93Jh6JNBng

 :ganishka:

Anyway, the new filmmakers have already proven to be far more receptive to fan desires, which you could see as smarter and less stubborn, or lacking in integrity (I don't think Lucas had integrity, he was just an a-hole, but as a result of that and the prequel aftermath Disney seems desperate to please with "Star Wars made the right way"). After the "final" cast photo came out and there were the inevitable complaints about lack of diversity they declared, "but we weren't finished yet!" and immediately drew Lupita Nyong'o and Gwendoline Cristie right out of the comments section and current events (Oscars and Game of Thrones, respectively). It was either an amazing coincidence or some of the most craven fan appeasement I've ever seen. I guess we'll find out when we see what roles they actually have in the movie.

BTW, after being known only as Episode VII for so long, why have they completely ditched the Episode designation? I'd like to think they're trying to get away from Lucas' episode number insanity and trying to get back to them just having titles like The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi (but it's not like they came up with a great title logo). Or, to simply disassociate from the stinkiness of prequels and the pressure of being the successor to original trilogy. Though, I also suspect it's to homogenize all the movies and help legitimize the cheesy standalone spinoffs that presumably won't have episode designations at all. So, Star Wars: The Force Awakens and Star Wars: Han and Boba Fett Go To White Casle won't seem so different in stature.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on December 01, 2014, 12:21:25 AM
Found on Reddit.

(http://i.imgur.com/1STDEa3.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: IncantatioN on December 01, 2014, 12:27:26 AM
:isidro: frakin awesome!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Salem on December 01, 2014, 02:39:44 AM
Found on Reddit.

(http://i.imgur.com/1STDEa3.gif)

The light slayer
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on December 01, 2014, 08:22:22 AM
But Lucas was the one changing everything, we just wanted him to stop. Speaking of which, Episove VII Special Edition Trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v93Jh6JNBng

Best thing to come out of all this so far. :ganishka:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Delta Phi on December 01, 2014, 01:42:36 PM
But Lucas was the one changing everything, we just wanted him to stop. Speaking of which, Episove VII Special Edition Trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v93Jh6JNBng
:ubik:

I laughed (loudly) way more than I anticipated.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: buttonmasher on December 03, 2014, 05:48:49 PM
This is what I was trying to describe
http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/umsrnb/lightsaber-controversy
Skip to 3:30
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on October 19, 2015, 11:32:53 PM
Well, I managed to get December 17th, 7pm Star Wars tickets before it choked the Internet. :ganishka:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on October 19, 2015, 11:39:14 PM
Well, I managed to get December 17th, 7pm Star Wars tickets before it choked the Internet. :ganishka:

But who is Kylo Ren?!?!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on October 19, 2015, 11:59:22 PM
But who is Kylo Ren?!?!

Darth Luke Girls-Guywalker!? :magni:

Anyway, despite this...

http://www.polygon.com/2015/10/19/9572067/amc-theaters-fandango-crash-during-pre-orders-for-force-awakens

...I managed to procure tickets from both sites (ju$t in ca$e  :carcus:). Though I'm happy to see people making the obligatory asinine complaints about the servers predictably not holding up under what's probably an impossible demand, "GAWD, CLEARLY THESE IDIOTS WEREN'T READY FOR WHEN TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ALL WENT ON THEIR SITE AT ONCE!" You know, as any responsible web host is prepared for and can easily manage with a few extra servers (if there's enough physically available on Earth at the time, that is =).

I want to see how insane the pre-sales are. Will this movie make a billion dollars before it comes out, or just a few hundred million? Man, it's going to be a real letdown! :ganishka:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on October 20, 2015, 01:47:21 AM
Well, I managed to get December 17th, 7pm Star Wars tickets before it choked the Internet. :ganishka:

I think everyone was caught up in thinking they wouldn't be sold until the trailer was released, so I was able to get mine right at 7pm CST. Got the 7pm showing on the 17th.

Very excited for this.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: IncantatioN on October 20, 2015, 01:58:16 PM
I want to see how insane the pre-sales are. Will this movie make a billion dollars before it comes out, or just a few hundred million? Man, it's going to be a real letdown! :ganishka:

‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ Tickets Already Being Sold on eBay For $10,000 (http://screencrush.com/star-wars-tickets-ebay-insane/)
 :magni:

For once I'm gonna stay out of the crazy madness of opening weekend, big queues for preferred seating and all. All the places I could find in New York that had reserved seats are sold out : /. Edit - just realized, the amount of crazy fans and reactions during the film will kill a lot of scenes for me, so I'll wait a few weeks after it's out to see it. I think *in such a dilemma*

'He Is Dragon' looks beautiful, trailer's in Russian and I have no clue what they're saying. Fans of Peter Jackson's work, check it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV7y0ODcooE
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on October 21, 2015, 06:26:43 AM
I think everyone was caught up in thinking they wouldn't be sold until the trailer was released, so I was able to get mine right at 7pm CST. Got the 7pm showing on the 17th.

Yeah, I used my powers of common sense to realize the series of events as described didn't make sense and to just be online around the time the trailer was said to go up/tickets sold because the sites would probably just go for it regardless of the trailer and it'd be a clusterfuck. I think I was wise to go directly through AMC too since fandango went down pretty fast, though AMC became basically worthless shortly thereafter.

For once I'm gonna stay out of the crazy madness of opening weekend, big queues for preferred seating and all. All the places I could find in New York that had reserved seats are sold out : /. Edit - just realized, the amount of crazy fans and reactions during the film will kill a lot of scenes for me, so I'll wait a few weeks after it's out to see it. I think *in such a dilemma*

Yeah, though I scored decent seats at a huge theater that'll likely make an even bigger spectacle of the whole thing, I'd much rather pay-per-view it. It can work the other way too though; I saw Crystal Skull at the midnight showing and I swear we all left the theater convinced it was a good time, because the act of all these people that loved the movies growing up going on one last unexpected hurrah with Indy was a good time, even if the movie itself turned out not to be.

Speaking of which...

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/what-if-the-new-star-wars-sucks-too-1737539377

I had mixed feelings on the last trailer. I was initially underwhelmed; maybe because it was more like a regular movie trailer for what's, presumably, just going to be a movie, rather than the return of some cultural phenomenon. It didn't hit me like the last one did right away ("THAT'S LUKE SKYWALKER TALKING, AND THAT'S HAN FUCKING SOLO!"). The presentation in the middle of a FOOTBAW GAME might have something to do with that too (just weird). Anyway, I felt it looked a bit underwhelming and familiar (desert and forest planet wuth X-Wings and Tie Fighters.. again!), bordering on overly nostalgic and self-aware (like Han basically talking about how awesome the original trilogy was and the bad guy being a literal Darth Vader cosplayer with Toys R Us voice changer). But, it's grown on me. I mean Han talking like that was cool, and the bad guy's fetish could really pay off depending on his identity and they should literally and figuratively pay respect to their roots, and it looking like a real movie and keeping it simple could serve it well in the long run (if the hype is impossible to live up to, at least just make me feel something, besides disappointment =). I'm maintaining that the best case scenario is a better Star Trek 2009, worst case a more disappointing, but only by default, Into Darkness.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on October 21, 2015, 07:11:18 AM
I had mixed feelings on the last trailer. I was initially underwhelmed; maybe because it was more like a regular movie trailer for what's, presumably, just going to be a movie, rather than the return of some cultural phenomenon. It didn't hit me like the last one did right away ("THAT'S LUKE SKYWALKER TALKING, AND THAT'S HAN FUCKING SOLO!"). The presentation in the middle of a FOOTBAW GAME might have something to do with that too (just weird). Anyway, I felt it looked a bit underwhelming and familiar (desert and forest planet wuth X-Wings and Tie Fighters.. again!), bordering on overly nostalgic and self-aware (like Han basically talking about how awesome the original trilogy was and the bad guy being a literal Darth Vader cosplayer with Toys R Us voice changer). But, it's grown on me. I mean Han talking like that was cool, and the bad guy's fetish could really pay off depending on his identity and they should literally and figuratively pay respect to their roots, and it looking like a real movie and keeping it simple could serve it well in the long run (if the hype is impossible to live up to, at least just make me feel something, besides disappointment =). I'm maintaining that the best case scenario is a better Star Trek 2009, worst case a more disappointing, but only by default, Into Darkness.

You will feel like you feel about the Avengers movies. The people at Disney are too good to mess it up terribly like Lucas did with the prequel trilogy, but you can also be sure it will have been engineered to evoke all the right things for a variety of people, to the point where it's virtually impossible for it to live up to the true fan's ideal. That and the Star Wars universe has only been growing smaller and less amazing over time as they kept defining it around the elements of the first three movies, preventing it from expanding in the ways that matter.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on October 21, 2015, 08:13:24 AM
Pretty much spot on, but if it accomplishes for Star Wars what the Avengers movie did for Marvel, but as a reclamation project in this case, that wouldn't be bad at all. One problem is, Avengers 1 and a couple others aside, those Marvel movies epitomize cheerful competence and adequacy. Nice, but that won't be enough here.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on October 21, 2015, 08:15:00 AM
Pretty much spot on, but if it accomplishes for Star Wars what the Avengers movie did for Marvel, but as a reclamation project in this case, that wouldn't be bad at all.

Indeed. Better than to end on Revenge of the Sith...
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on October 21, 2015, 03:19:13 PM
Indeed. Better than to end on Revenge of the Sith...

If only it would end after this! Too bad the stated plan is literally to run it into the ground, and with such uninspired ideas (shrinking the universe as you said), like how the death star plans got stolen (I wonder how it will end!? Sequel idea: how DID those Bothans die!?) and movies focusing on characters that hinted at nothing larger and required no additional fleshing out, but for which they're just going to make up stories for anyway. I can't wait for the spinoff of the  Boba Fett franchise about the life of the Sarlac Pit, or how about Rancor Trainers: The Movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on October 21, 2015, 05:36:07 PM
I liked the latest trailer. Shouldn't we make a Star Wars thread at this point?
Title: Re: Movies to look forward to
Post by: Griffith on October 21, 2015, 06:29:18 PM
I liked the latest trailer.

Go on...? I think it's a bit more subtle, intimate, and less about advertising the return of STAR WARS than the last two. Basically, the first one was all about the big picture idea of STAR WARS returning "THE DARK SIDE... AND THE LIGHT...", the second was about nostalgia and signaling a return to form, "The force is strong in my family...", and this one had that but is also more about these characters, this story, and the actual movie, "I was raised to do one thing, but I have nothing to fight for." If they can pull off all those elements at once in the film itself, we'll have a winner, “Nothing will stand in our way, I will finish what you started.”

And don't ask about this quoting convention I employed, I have no idea. =)


BTW, here's an obnoxiously deep dive on the trailer that doesn't really reveal anything of substance, but if anyone is on a real kick:

http://io9.com/heres-a-shot-by-shot-breakdown-of-all-the-goodies-in-th-1737486310

Shouldn't we make a Star Wars thread at this point?

As usual, Aaz already did it a year ago. :ganishka:

http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14526.0
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Salem on October 21, 2015, 06:31:22 PM
Am I the minority here?  Kylo Ren looks identical to Darth Revan from KOTOR.  I know they ruled that character out as non canon, but damn. 
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on October 21, 2015, 06:39:18 PM
Go on...? I think it's a bit more subtle, intimate, and less about advertising the return of STAR WARS than the last two. Basically, the first one was all about the big picture idea of STAR WARS returning, the second was about nostalgia and signaling a return to form, and this one is about these characters, this story, and the actual. If they can pull off all those elements at once in the film itself, we'll have a winner.

Well, the first trailer didn't do anything for me at all. This gave me little goosebumps. In addition to all the new settings and scenarios we see in this new trailer, I think the music is what worked for me the most — an effective gut punch of nostalgia. Han going from skeptical rogue in a New Hope to saying "it's all true" 20 years later, was also a nice touch. Also, I just liked the angle they're taking. It's done a good job of dispeling my fear that this will be purely a story about consequences of the first trilogy, and more about exploring these three new characters.

Here it is for those who haven't seen it yet:


My wife has asked me to start searching for pre-order tickets now... And a babysitter.  :puck:

Quote
As usual, Aaz already did it a year ago. :ganishka:

http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14526.0

Aha! Split and merged new posts with the old topic.

Am I the minority here?  Kylo Ren looks identical to Darth Revan from KOTOR.  I know they ruled that character out as non canon, but damn.

Revan's mask is cooler. I'm still surprised how boring Kylo's mask is compared to, say, Vader's. For a project with thousands of artists, and this being the most iconic costume piece in the movie, it looks, I dunno... under-designed. Something about concentric lines doesn't strike fear into me in the same way as Vader's Sci-Fi Shogun helmet.

Anyway, KOTOR being non canon is perfect. Now they can pilfer whatever they want without having to tie it back to anything from the past  :carcus:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on October 22, 2015, 06:40:31 AM
Well, the first trailer didn't do anything for me at all. This gave me little goosebumps.

The first, first one (which was pretty underwhelming), or the Luke one (that's the one that first hooked me)? Anyway, I'm glad to hear you're in the spirit, "The Force is calling you... let it in." =)

In addition to all the new settings and scenarios we see in this new trailer, I think the music is what worked for me the most — an effective gut punch of nostalgia. Han going from skeptical rogue in a New Hope to saying "it's all true" 20 years later, was also a nice touch. Also, I just liked the angle they're taking. It's done a good job of dispeling my fear that this will be purely a story about consequences of the first trilogy, and more about exploring these three new characters.

I also feel like for a "next generation" story it's doing a damn fine job of making me feel like I'm being invited to be a part of it now through these new characters rather than resenting them for not being my old favorites. I think the obvious reverence the new kids have displayed in such a short time definitely helps (why are such characters usually portrayed as cynical pissants that need to come around after you already hate them?).

My wife has asked me to start searching for pre-order tickets now... And a babysitter.  :puck:

Well, I have a spare set of tickets at another theater if you and the missus don't mind seeing it in south L.A. :ganishka:

Revan's mask is cooler. I'm still surprised how boring Kylo's mask is compared to, say, Vader's. For a project with thousands of artists, and this being the most iconic costume piece in the movie, it looks, I dunno... under-designed. Something about concentric lines doesn't strike fear into me in the same way as Vader's Sci-Fi Shogun helmet.

Yeah, it's grown on me, but that's not saying much since it's so basic it had nowhere to go but up in my estimation. Taken with the helmet overall it's much more intriguing though, especially given the DIY Vader Impersonator nature of the character. Perhaps the whole character will be a critique of the petulant Anakin Skywalker of the prequels. :troll:

Anyway, KOTOR being non canon is perfect. Now they can pilfer whatever they want without having to tie it back to anything from the past  :carcus:

That would be a sound strategy for all their upcoming stuff, just mine the EU for gold, maybe change the names, and leave the shit in purgatory.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on October 22, 2015, 01:28:54 PM
The first, first one (which was pretty underwhelming), or the Luke one (that's the one that first hooked me)?

I meant the "Chewie.... we're home" trailer -- which was exactly what I didn't want from a new trilogy.

Quote
Anyway, I'm glad to hear you're in the spirit, "The Force is calling you... let it in." =)

Well, I'm still a little groggy at the prospect of more Star Wars. But I am AWAKENED.

Quote
I also feel like for a "next generation" story it's doing a damn fine job of making me feel like I'm being invited to be a part of it now through these new characters rather than resenting them for not being my old favorites.

Ever since I was a kid and learned that A New Hope is "Episode IV" in a trio of trilogies, I've had big ideas for what the third story arc would be. I've always wanted it to be removed from the conflict of the movies I grew up with. Because while I of course loved those movies, that conflict and those characters felt perfectly concluded by RotJ. So, I wanted it this new story arc to focus on a whole new set of characters, and I was glad to see them take the forefront in this trailer. Even if... the prospect of the remnants of the empire being the villain is more than a little disappointing to me.

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on October 23, 2015, 04:50:51 AM
I meant the "Chewie.... we're home" trailer -- which was exactly what I didn't want from a new trilogy.

You mean the one discussed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93uSIKzPmik ? :carcus:

Ever since I was a kid and learned that A New Hope is "Episode IV" in a trio of trilogies, I've had big ideas for what the third story arc would be. I've always wanted it to be removed from the conflict of the movies I grew up with. Because while I of course loved those movies, that conflict and those characters felt perfectly concluded by RotJ. So, I wanted it this new story arc to focus on a whole new set of characters, and I was glad to see them take the forefront in this trailer.

I think that closed ending left me satisfied so that I was always skeptical of the "other trilogies," even before the prequels came out. Not that I thought they would be so bad, just that George Lucas and his master plans were all PT Barnum bullshit (BTW, an excellent read on Star Wars and Empire producer Gary Kurtz and if you haven't seen it already, with all sorts of details about what Return of the Jedi could have been: http://herocomplex.latimes.com/movies/star-wars-was-born-a-long-time-ago-but-not-all-that-far-far-away-in-1972-filmmakers-george-lucas-and-gary-kurtz-wer/). Anyway, after Jedi, I didn't want or need more Star Wars per se, I just wanted to spend more time with those characters, so I'm arriving from almost the opposite direction.

Even if... the prospect of the remnants of the empire being the villain is more than a little disappointing to me.

Or whatever it is. The First Order? Shouldn't it be "The Last Order?" I  mean, it makes sense that the war would continue after RotJ, since large empires don't disintegrate so easily as in montages, but I like the idea better that these guys are basically pretenders dressed in their parents clothes and holding onto something that isn't real anymore, including Vader. Speaking of...

A kill count with a story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZtqh5FK1yc

 :ganishka:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on October 23, 2015, 01:18:54 PM
(BTW, an excellent read on Star Wars and Empire producer Gary Kurtz and if you haven't seen it already, with all sorts of details about what Return of the Jedi could have been: http://herocomplex.latimes.com/movies/star-wars-was-born-a-long-time-ago-but-not-all-that-far-far-away-in-1972-filmmakers-george-lucas-and-gary-kurtz-wer/).

Quote from: Portion of article
The discussed ending of the film that Kurtz favored presented the rebel forces in tatters, Leia grappling with her new duties as queen and Luke walking off alone “like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns,” as Kurtz put it.

Kurtz said that ending would have been a more emotionally nuanced finale to an epic adventure than the forest celebration of the Ewoks that essentially ended the trilogy with a teddy bear luau.

He was especially disdainful of the Lucas idea of a second Death Star, which he felt would be too derivative of the 1977 film. “So we agreed that I should probably leave.”

That was fantastic, and it kind of breaks my heart, confirming everyone's worst fears. Thanks for sharing.  :judo:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: m on October 23, 2015, 05:33:04 PM

The other day I got my tickets for December 16th. So far I haven't watched any trailers and I have stayed away from any sort of spoilers; basically I know nothing about the movie other than the fact that it's a Star Wars movie and that familiar faces will be on it. My reason for going in blind is basically that expectations are a bitch, so I'd rather go in having none.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on October 23, 2015, 05:39:18 PM
The other day I got my tickets for December 16th. So far I haven't watched any trailers and I have stayed away from any sort of spoilers; basically I know nothing about the movie other than the fact that it's a Star Wars movie and that familiar faces will be on it. My reason for going in blind is basically that expectations are a bitch, so I'd rather go in having none.

Spoilers aren't a big factor for me personally. The recent trailer did an effective job of changing my level of excitement from null to interested.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on October 23, 2015, 07:15:32 PM
That was fantastic, and it kind of breaks my heart, confirming everyone's worst fears. Thanks for sharing.  :judo:

On the other hand...

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/return-of-the-jedi-was-great-you-ewok-slandering-fools-1738290933

The other day I got my tickets for December 16th. So far I haven't watched any trailers and I have stayed away from any sort of spoilers; basically I know nothing about the movie other than the fact that it's a Star Wars movie and that familiar faces will be on it. My reason for going in blind is basically that expectations are a bitch, so I'd rather go in having none.

Probably a good idea so you can really appreciate it if it's good; I may have already been spoiled, unfortunately.

Spoilers aren't a big factor for me personally. The recent trailer did an effective job of changing my level of excitement from null to interested.

If you liked that, I was even more impressed by this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTNJ51ghzdY

I mean, can we basically tie all the series' problems to Lucas becoming a stubborn king shit that force choked his own franchise as a result? Maybe Star Wars is actually hard to screw up when handled by adult professionals like the ones in the video above. :ganishka:


This was making the rounds today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIRoASL90EI

Pretty good! I just wish they'd completed that line from the last trailer too.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: NightCrawler on October 28, 2015, 02:49:48 PM
Isn't it funny that you'll never see the end of SW during your lifetime?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on October 28, 2015, 02:56:56 PM
Isn't it funny that you'll never see the end of SW during your lifetime?

Neither will our grandchildren.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on October 30, 2015, 05:36:59 AM
Isn't it funny that you'll never see the end of SW during your lifetime?

You know, when the Special Editions were coming to theaters in 1997, I remember thinking my life was literally leading to that moment; I literally hoped I didn't die somehow before I could achieve this fulfillment! Needless to say, since then I have no fear of death. :ganishka:


Anyway, more fascinating Gary Kurtz quotes on the original RotJ and even beyond:

Quote
One of the reasons Jedi came out the way it did was because the story outline of how Jedi was going to be seemed to get tossed out, and one of the reasons I was really unhappy was the fact that all of the carefully constructed story structure of characters and things that we did in Empire was going to carry over into Jedi. The resolution of that film was going to be quite bittersweet, with Han Solo being killed, and the princess having to take over as queen of what remained of her people, leaving everybody else. In effect, Luke was left on his own. None of that happened, of course.
Quote
It was about how are we going to resolve the story of these three people; one of the discussions was about Han Solo’s character being killed in one of the raids in the middle of the story. Harrison wanted it to be that way. He wanted his character to end that way.
Quote
It would have been quite sad, and poignant and upbeat at the same time, because they would have won a battle. But the idea of another attack on another Death Star wasn't there at all ... it was a rehash of Star Wars, with better visual effects. And there were no Ewoks ... it was just entirely different. It was much more adult and straightforward, the story.
Quote
The one story thread that got totally tossed out the window, which was really pretty important I think, was the one of Vader trying to convince Luke to join him to overthrow the Emperor. That together they had enough power that they could do that, and it wasn’t him saying I want to take over the world and be the evil leader, it was that transition. It was Vader saying, “I’m looking again at what I’ve done and where my life has gone and who I’ve served and, very much in the Samurai tradition, and saying if I can join forces with my son, who is just as strong as I am, that maybe we can make some amends.” So there was all of that going on in Jedi as well, that was supposed to go on. So the story was quite a bit more poignant and the ending was the coronation of Leia as the queen of what was left of her people, to take over the royal symbol. That meant she was then isolated from all of the rest and Luke went off then by himself. It was basically a kind of bittersweet ending. She’s not his sister that dropped in to wrap up everything neatly. His sister was someone else way over on the other side of the galaxy and she wasn’t going to show up until the next episode.

He has more to say about that last line concerning the next episode too, the idea of Luke going off alone to become Jedi supreme and playing the Obi-Wan/Yoda role training his sister (or perhaps now niece or daughter). Perhaps they're going to pick up where all those lost threads from Jedi left off; that would certainly be promising. Besides that, he has lots of interesting things to say about Star Wars, from the first one to the prequels, in general, and comes off rather reasonable and credible even though he obviously has an axe to grind. I mean, saying Episode I was disappointing doesn't exactly show bias, and the comparison of Jedi to Indiana Jones was something that's occurred to me before, though positively.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2002/11/11/an-interview-with-gary-kurtz?page=4

A good read for any Star Wars fan (and I wasn't kidding when I said I was doing a cut of Jedi based on his notes (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14824.msg237520#msg237520). STAR WARS: RECAUTERIZED =)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Tripas on October 30, 2015, 11:00:04 AM
Nostalgia is a pain in the ass! I remember when Disney bought the rights of the entire Star Wars franchise and announced the production of a new episode. My initial thought was: "this will be commercial bullshit. I'm not going anywhere near that thing!". Nowadays, with the release so close, I can't wait to see it. I hate myself!

Thanks for that interview, Griffith. Although it isn't anything new for the most part, it's good to see from time to time how they throw at our faces what might have been and wasn't... :judo:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on November 07, 2015, 05:15:52 AM
International trailer made up of largely new footage:


And a poster to go with it:

(http://i0.wp.com/bitcast-a-sm.bitgravity.com/slashfilm/wp/wp-content/images/Star-Wars-The-Force-Awakens-Korean-poster.jpg)

BTW, the simplicity of the Kylo Ren design has grown on me. Particularly because you can't tell me he wouldn't' look right at home on this stage:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Kd1BGIJtDYU/U9AtaqAMFZI/AAAAAAAAYVo/D_RTWO57p2s/s1600/bounty-hunter-line-up-empire-strikes-back.JPG)


P.S. More new footage in a TV spot but you guys don't want to geek out with me on this anymore. You want to talk about people watching other people play video games. Fine, I'll bitch here in an edit you won't see. =)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: IncantatioN on December 09, 2015, 08:17:00 PM
I'll be visiting Bombay for three weeks starting Dec 21 to be home for Dad's first anniversary and while I'm there my Mum wants us to watch the movie together. I was originally planning to hold off seeing it till a month into the release but I'm gonna have to break that now. Funny thing, the movie comes out in Bombay on December 24 and tickets aren't even on sale as yet (!) but as I type that I realize how normal that's always been. Being in New York spoilt me with access to buying tickets a month or more in advance for bigger movies. There were never instances where fans would line up hours in advance to secure seats because the system was different - all tickets are assigned seat numbers by default, even when you purchase it online, you choose your seats. Reminds me of the time I watched my first movie in New York, Pan's Labyrinth, from the absolute front row because I was expecting a seat to be assigned when I bought the ticket :farnese:. Digressing a bit, I also notice all my friends here prefer to watch movies from the middle rows to be somewhat closer to the screen whereas back home we pay a premium fee for the last 3/4 rows.

Back on topic and speaking of lining up - ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ Fans Are Already Lining Up (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/movies/star-wars-the-force-awakens-fans-are-already-lining-up.html?_r=1) :isidro:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 15, 2015, 04:47:50 PM
First impressions from the Star Wars premiere are very positive, with the obvious caveat that it's almost impossible not to be caught up in the moment at this point (here's the obligatory disclaimer that people talked up Phantom Menace & Crystal Skull at first, etc etc). I won't even trust my own critical judgement for a while after seeing it (because if they have old ass Jedi Master Luke Skywalker commit an act of dramatic heroism at the climax my judgement will surely be impaired until my refractory period is over =), but it's better than if people were going, "..." and "It's not too bad!" The only bitch I've seen actually is that it apes the original trilogy too much. Oh yeah? I'll take it! :guts: (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/Themes/Recall_20/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on December 15, 2015, 04:50:51 PM
(here's the obligatory warning that people talked up Phantom Menace & Crystal Skull at first, etc etc).

Oh, I remember... I could barely speak with a friend of mine after he'd hyped up Phantom Menace after he caught an early showing it.

Griff, when are you seeing it? I won't be able to until Dec. 28-30. Wondering when we'll be able to talk about it on the podcast.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 15, 2015, 05:01:10 PM
Oh, I remember... I could barely speak with a friend of mine after he'd hyped up Phantom Menace after he caught an early showing it.

I still remember getting into an argument with a fan friend in high school because I took the somewhat radical position at the time that, "it was kinda bad." His response was basically, "Come on!" and "It's Star Wars!" To which I would say things like, "That's my point, WAS it?" followed by more "Come on"s.

Griff, when are you seeing it? I won't be able to until Dec. 28-30. Wondering when we'll be able to talk about it on the podcast.

I'll be ready at approximately 10:30pm this Thursday. :badbone:

(better make it 11 since there's probably going to be at least a half hour of previews)

Don't rush on my account though because Holiday crap is going to have me running all over afterward as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on December 15, 2015, 06:37:09 PM
I still remember getting into an argument with a fan friend in high school because I took the somewhat radical position at the time that, "it was kinda bad." His response was basically, "Come on!" and "It's Star Wars!" To which I would say things like, "That's my point, WAS it?" followed by more "Come on"s.

I'll be ready at approximately 10:30pm this Thursday. :badbone:

(better make it 11 since there's probably going to be at least a half hour of previews)

Don't rush on my account though because Holiday crap is going to have me running all over afterward as well.

I'm watching it at 7pm on Thursday.

I'll refrain from sending you spoilers.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Delta Phi on December 15, 2015, 07:14:20 PM
Despite remaining cautiously optimistic for a long time, I've become swept up in the fanboy hype ever since trailer 2 or 3 dropped. I'm basically a raving idiot any time I see a tv spot. It's going to have to pull some really stupid shit for me to not think it's incredible when I walk out of the theater. I love everything I've seen so far (even Kylo Ren's stupid fucking lightsaber, which I kind of groaned at when it was first revealed).

I'm out of control.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: IncantatioN on December 15, 2015, 07:26:47 PM
I'm out of control.

You're not alone! I realized last night in conversation with a pal how I'd been brushing it aside saying I won't watch it blah blah wait for a month or whatever but perhaps I was waiting for ANY excuse to see it sooner than that. Plus, the response from people who've seen it has been positive - link to CNN article (http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/15/entertainment/star-wars-premiere-reactions-feat/index.html). So it's hard not to get sucked in.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on December 15, 2015, 08:03:24 PM
My wife actually pulled my aside last night and asked me to stop talking about the premier on Thursday night. Apparently I've been talking about the premier since November of last year, and even moreso when each new trailer dropped. I've maintained radio silence on all spoilers outside of the trailers, but knowing it premiered last night has made me fight looking up anything related to the movie with almost every ounce of will I have.

I think seeing this movie on Thursday will be the end of a prolonged orgasm, be it good or bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on December 15, 2015, 08:08:18 PM
Welp, with the deadline fast approaching, I guess I'll be on radio silence for this thread until I see the movie.

Would you guys mind tagging anything remotely resembling spoilers moving forward?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 15, 2015, 08:43:43 PM
I'm watching it at 7pm on Thursday.

I'll refrain from sending you spoilers.

You won't have to because I'm also seeing it then, which is why I'll be ready to talk about it approximately 2-3 hours later. We can try PMing spoilers to each other depending on whose previews are longer, etc. "Oh, you won't believe this happens 38 seconds from where you're at! Sorry I spoiled it for you 30 seconds early!"

I'm out of control.
You're not alone! I realized last night in conversation with a pal how I'd been brushing it aside saying I won't watch it blah blah wait for a month or whatever but perhaps I was waiting for ANY excuse to see it sooner than that. Plus, the response from people who've seen it has been positive - link to CNN article (http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/15/entertainment/star-wars-premiere-reactions-feat/index.html). So it's hard not to get sucked in.
My wife actually pulled my aside last night and asked me to stop talking about the premier on Thursday night. Apparently I've been talking about the premier since November of last year

My enthusiasm actually cooled off this month, I peaked back around October/November with the tickets and new trailers, but the barrage of new TV spots and footage forced me underground and I've become strangely stoic and fatalistic since. I think part of it was the realization that such grand expectations will only lead to disappointment, after all, it's just going to be a movie, and how many times has someone set out to make something purported to be so great and that everyone will like and actually succeeded? So, by this week I almost didn't care anymore or it had almost become an obligation (it doesn't help that the logistics are going to be a nightmare =). But, the positive premiere buzz has quickened my enthusiasm once more, so I think I'm in a good place now, not too high, not too low, just ready to go. Bring it on. :daiba:

Would you guys mind tagging anything remotely resembling spoilers moving forward?

Han shot first in this continuity! :badbone:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: IncantatioN on December 15, 2015, 09:29:12 PM
But, the positive premiere buzz has quickened my enthusiasm once more, so I think I'm in a good place now, not too high, not too low, just ready to go. Bring it on. :daiba:

From all those tweets in that CNN article, I feel like I could really only trust Pat Oswalt's tweet, reinforced by Lucas's own admission (few days ago) that it's a movie fans have been looking for. Exciting times. If only Twitter existed when The Phantom Menace came out, we could compare reactions!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 15, 2015, 09:57:47 PM
From all those tweets in that CNN article, I feel like I could really only trust Pat Oswalt's tweet

Oh yeah?

http://viewaskew.com/press/menace.html

Not that they're the same guy, but I'd say they've occupied similar perches in their times. Right now, in the words of Lucas, "Don't trust anybody."

reinforced by Lucas's own admission (few days ago) that it's a movie fans have been looking for.

Translation: It's artistically bankrupt pablum pandering to the nostalgia of the lowest common denominator! They're MY movies! :mozgus:

I can't wait until he executes the secret "Order 66" clause in the contract, revokes the rights from Disney, and bars the film from release like the theatrical versions of the original trilogy. Then we'll know it's legit. :ganishka:

Exciting times. If only Twitter existed when The Phantom Menace came out, we could compare reactions!

Well...

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/12/10/watch-fans-react-to-star-wars-the-phantom-menace-in-1999

 :farnese:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: RaffoBaffo on December 16, 2015, 12:27:17 AM
I'm going to see it today.
Thankfully I found a Cinema with a 2D version  :serpico:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: m on December 16, 2015, 07:01:41 PM
So I just saw the movie. I don't know if my overall impression of the movie is a spoiler or not but I guess I better tag everything.

I think the movie was good but it wasn't great; there were things I really liked and there were others that I didn't. The story is basically A New Hope with some twists and some stuff from episodes V and VI. The locales are basically locales from other episodes in all but name, and one can't really help but be reminded of the original trilogy every step of the way, though I guess that was most likely the intention to cater to fans. I didn't quite like that there was a Death Star in the movie. I know, I know, it's not a Death Star, it's a Starkiller and it's much, much bigger. :schierke: Since they can be destroyed in basically the same way I guess they're not that different after all. I find it funny how after all these years the forces of the dark side didn't quite manage to design a Death Star thingy that is not vulnerable to the kind of attack that took down the first one. Another thing I didn't quite like was how Rey was able to accomplish so much in terms of using the force with no training whatsoever, especially when it seems to have taken Luke quite some effort to reach what I perceived as being similar levels; talk about being a natural. Speaking of Rey, I guess being in tune with the force automatically makes you at least decent when it comes to handling light sabers (I guess one could argue that she was already proficient with her own weapon and that perhaps that was a good enough start, or that perhaps she was already good with swords, but I don't really buy any of those arguments). Perhaps Kylo Ren really sucked as a fighter and that's why Rey managed to keep up both in terms of using the force and swordsmanship (and I don't think it was all due to Kylo Ren's injury). One more thing I didn't quite like was Snoke, not the character himself, but the CGI behind it, which I thought wasn't very good, but perhaps this was just an effect of the 3D screen.

Regarding the things I did like, I thought Daisy Ridley and John Boyega were really good and that they had good chemistry. I really enjoyed Rey and Finn's relationship from the very start (Finn trying to help Rey when she clearly didn't need help) to the end (when she told him that she'd see him again). If the next movies will have more adventures with Rey and Finn sign me up already. I thought Harrison Ford was quite good too and I think this movie was a good send-off for Han Solo. Also, I found the humor in the movie to be really good, there were quite a few moments that had me laughing. The nostalgia factor kind of goes both ways for me, on one hand I was constantly reminded of the original trilogy, on the other hand there were really good nostalgia moments, among which I basically count the introduction of all the (literally) old characters. One moment that stood out for me was the introduction of the Millenium Falcon, i thought it was a really good gag. finally, I thought they did a good job in terms of setting up the next movies, for example, I'm really interested in finding out where Kylo Ren goes from here, and I also wonder if we're going to learn more about Rey's story (perhaps I'm reading too much into it but I wonder why Leia hugged her so affectionately at the end).

As I mentioned at the start of this rant I thought the movie was good, so I give it three damaged Darth Vader helmets out of five.

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: VengeanceQuest982 on December 17, 2015, 04:22:41 PM
...M did you see Creed because The Force Unleashed is the second film to do what it did : honor the spirit of the original while telling its own story. The new characters Finn and Rey were instantly likable as they synched so well with the returning cast from the OT.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: m on December 17, 2015, 07:29:51 PM
...M did you see Creed because The Force Unleashed is the second film to do what it did : honor the spirit of the original while telling its own story. The new characters Finn and Rey were instantly likable as they synched so well with the returning cast from the OT.

I haven't seen Creed, and I really want to, but it's not on theaters around here until February... :judo:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: MrFlibble on December 17, 2015, 08:00:47 PM
My initial impression, I have mentioned a few spoilers, but not the jaw droppers.

I really liked the movie, it surpassed my expectations. The creativity involved in the creature and machine designs is astounding, you could tell there was a lot of passion involved in making the movie, I especially liked the psuedo Jawa on the Nihei looking cyborg mount that tries to steal BB8. The main characters are compelling and they play off each other very well, especially Poe Dameron, who unfortunately doesn't get a lot of attention in the third act. The humour worked well, BB8 thumbing up with a lighter was hilarious  :puck:. The First Order is a great threat, the brutality of the combat has definitely increased since Return Of The Jedi, and it's not as over the top as Revenge of the Sith. I didn't think I would like Kylo Ren, to me he seemed like a safe Darth Vader re skin, but he turned out to be an unnerving character, his abrasive untempered aggression is a good contrast to Vader's intimidating but stoic demeanor, and his past makes him very pitiful. I didn't mind the nostalgia nods, they were firmly in the background where they belonged and they didn't rub them in the audiences face.

What I didn't really like was Starkiller Base, since the plot revolved around looking for Luke, shoehorning it in felt underdeveloped and unnecessary. It's a far more advanced and powerful weapon than the Death Star, taking out planets vast distances away without having to travel to its target. However since Four and Six spent more time developing the threat, it didn't feel as interesting. I'm also a little confused about the political landscape of the galaxy, since the Rebels defeated the Empire, the dichotomy should be reversed, The First Order should be the guerrillas and the Rebellion/Republic should be the dominant force, but the Rebels for some reason only have a small group of X wings despite being in power for 30 years. Where is the Republic army? why aren't they helping? And perhaps someone who has already seen it could clarify, was it Courscant that was destroyed by Starkiller Base?

Even though I liked Snoke, I don't think there was a need to make him CGI, since his character was humanoid anyway, they could have given Serkis actual make up and the effect would be the better, it doesn't help that his character is never in the same shot as Hux and Kylo, and having him appear three times was overkill for the mysterious big bad of the new trilogy, I'd prefer if they didn't even show what he looked like for now. It's very good, I'd say on par with ROTJ, I'd recommend 2D since apart from a very patient blaster laser you don't get a lot out of the 3D.


Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: jackson_hurley on December 17, 2015, 08:18:43 PM
Well I guess it's a good thing I don't watch Tv since a lot of people complained about all the TV spots and commercial things going around the movie. Heck, I don't even know if I'll go see it this year. I'm a little bit disconnected with movies these days. I still want to see it though ,cause I do like Star Wars movies in general.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on December 18, 2015, 03:05:34 AM
Just got out of the movie. Loved it all.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Lawliet on December 18, 2015, 04:40:01 AM
Got a confession to make: This will be my first Star Wars.  :farnese:

Will see it this weekend. Hope I won't be too confused  :???:

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 18, 2015, 05:55:08 AM
Debbie downer reporting in! (http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/azansalute.gif)

I'm ambivalent guys, which I realize isn't what anyone wants to hear about the movie. I feel this way for good reasons, though. I genuinely like the new characters and it had a lot of fun with them and their getting involved; it was like a childhood fantasy of yourself somehow joining your Star Wars heroes while playing with your toys. Problem is, that's a little too much what it felt like; fan-fiction or recycled EU, crossed with an early, awkward Star Trek: The Next Generation episode and without transcending either form. Ironically, I feel like they needed to let go of trying to be STAR WARS so much while reinventing it, to the point that the Star Warsy plot felt merely shoved on top the more organic stories of these characters and their potential is never reached because of it (I mean the plot's potential too, which contains what should be some universe shaking events but it's all covered almost as an obligatory aside, because it is). They also didn't rightly payoff the old cast; some big ideas, but opportunities missed in the execution. Basically, it's stuck somewhere between trying to capture the fun of A New Hope and the pathos of Empire and ends up being a half measure of both. I have lots more to say, some good, some bad; I could really nitpick it to death (it's not as embarrassing, but has quite a few similarities to Crystal Skull), or defend it's good intentions and boldness in other areas (it was irreverently inventive at times with character interactions). It made me smile and fascinated me at times, but it also underwhelmed and disappointed. It's a better movie than the prequels and won't shame the series the way they did, but it also doesn't really fit in with the old trilogy as much as it tries (I could feel my body rejecting it like an transplanted organ =). There's a new Star Wars, but it is what it is, a new enterprise, not my generation's, and not the natural extension to the original trilogy and antidote to the prequels some of us may have hoped.

tl;dr: From the very start of the movie I could just never quite embrace it and that alienation only grew as it went on.

Speaking of Crystal Skull, which I also saw the literal midnight show for, there was no euphoria at the end of this like with that movie. There was the usual clapping and cheers every time a classic character popped up, but at the end and during the credits I could see people quietly contemplating or debating the movie; lots of beard stroking and brow furrowing going on. I think this is mostly due to how guarded and self-aware we are about consuming this stuff these days, but it didn't exactly recreate the reaction to Star Wars in '77. =)


Update: Got caught up on the thread and m and Wenliinvictus I agree with pretty much everything you had to say, good and bad. A few other notes that popped out at me while watching:


Walter, don't read these because I know you might and ruin it for yourself. =)


I think Finn was my favorite. He was a pretty unique character and a great addition with behaviors that felt like they'd fit with the original trilogy while bringing something new. I liked that he was capable and could be quite brave, but not always, and not just because; so, his actions meant something. Even when he was being brave he could also be reckless, like lying to get back on the base. Basically, he's a scoundrel! Loved him an Han together too.

Rey was good, but she was a little more the typical stubborn heroic type, the chosen one, and somehow repeatedly her own deus ex machina.

The Millennium Falcon reveal was perfect.

I half liked Han's reprisal, he had some good humorous dialogue, but he was basically reduced to comic relief and his dramatic dialogue was clunky; Harrison Ford is in full old Indy mode here too (sorry). His exit, while the dramatic peak, could have been handled better and should have been more of the focus.

I'm still not used to big, fast-moving CGI aliens in Star Wars.

Carrie Fisher was used like a puppet of Princess General Leia, which was probably the best they could do. Speaking of puppets, Ackbar looked bad.

It was depressing seeing Leia and Han as like old, estranged divorcees with him riding in on his Harley. Overall, the old saying is true of the original trilogy cast; you can't go home again.

Why did they reveal Kylo as their son so early (I was just waiting to hear his original trilogy name btw, I thought maybe Luke, but Ben was a good choice)? It wasn't necessary to come out with it explicitly until the climax, they could have just referred to him as, well, "him" and we would have gotten the idea and saying the words during their face to face would have had more impact. Of course, they probably couldn't have resisted an "I am your father" joke then. Anyway, Kylo was compelling and has potential, but he already feels destined to be saved (him actually not being redeemable would be a good twist). Geez, this movie is like an allegory about fanboys (and girls).

3PO's introduction was perfect, too bad the payoff with Han and Leia was as awkward as... it might have really been. =)

Otherwise, 3PO and especially R2 didn't even need to be in the movie. R2 was in full McGuffin mode until the plot was over. "Hey, now he works and we can find Luke!" Couldn't that have happened any time after they got the missing part of the map? That is some convenient plot-driven garbage right there.

3PO should have been sadder about R2.

Hux looks and acts like he should be a bad guy in Animal House, not Star Wars.

Him, Phasma and Snoke amount to nothing, it's like they just made up Star Warsy names to fill in plot.

So, the entire Republic was destroyed, but it might as well just be a screen saver on your computer for all the attention paid to it and impact it had. Also, the First Order was basically destroyed as well. So much for world building. Oh well, the whole new Jedi order gone bad and Starkiller base are EU ripoffs anyway. The jokes about Death Stars and it just being bigger and there's always an exhaust port didn't help, but just highlighted how superfluous and gratuitous it was. I'll put it this way, it was already (re)done way better in Jedi.

None of that got Luke Skywalker's attention?

BTW, Luke Skywalker only gets a non-speaking cameo appearance? What a ripoff! He literally had more impact in the trailers he wasn't in. Also, not a great way to reintroduce the character at all. JJ said Luke's story is what brought him on board, well do something with it then. It was an odd way to end the movie, and just one of a few times I felt more like I was watching TV.

They should have just dropped the New Hope plot and stuck with Han and the kids dealing with Kylo and the First Order. Like imagine if during the dramatic moments of Empire they also forced in another Death Star run. It wasn't a mess, it just deluded focus from what should have been one of the biggest moments in the series, but was just a moment in the movie.

Chewie should have been howling for days after that happened...

That bugs me more than I like to think. Even though I knew it was coming... (biggest spoiler of my life)

So, Kylo's cousin Rey is already better than him? Not much drama left! How about she's really good but without training/seasoning she still needs Luke Skywalker to help her smack down that insolent pup? That would have brought the house down.

I don't really see how "The Force Awakened" or was asleep. That title, and too much else, almost seems like it was work-shopped/focus-grouped in a marketing meeting.

Not as good as Star Trek 2009, better than Into Darkness.

Better movie than the prequels, but they now strangely feel more authentic. This felt, naturally, like someone else's Star Wars related thing.

Rian Johnson can do better and has better material to work with now that all that's out of the way. Here's hoping he does. Holding back Luke was smart because he's their trump card, at least with me, but damn them for it.


Overall, the Original Trilogy is still what's Star Wars to me, and I'm putting this in the same category with everything else, good and bad, outside. Basically, it's EU, and I'm fine with that.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on December 18, 2015, 04:13:21 PM
Great points, Griff. I'm the opposite, however. I embraced it from the opening scene until the end.

I'm extremely biased though since SW has been an integral part of my life since I left my dad's ball sack.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 18, 2015, 04:43:07 PM
Great points, Griff. I'm the opposite, however. I embraced it from the opening scene until the end.

I'm extremely biased though since SW has been an integral part of my life since I left my dad's ball sack.

"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am." Re-watched the OT this week. :ganishka:

Well, I'm no less biased, and for that I don't even know if I'm going too easy on it or being unfair (I'm only holding it to the standard of my favorite movies ever from my childhood =); like did I really sit back and experience it as it was or was I so up in my head about it I was basically experiencing some paralleling meta dissonance (which the movie completely facilitates btw!). I mean, it's trying to be new and old Star Wars at once, and I actually liked the new better than their attempts to be the old, so it's like a missed opportunity on both counts? I don't know, I need to see it again with some perspective, but my first impression is it never quite rang true and my gut feeling is that's because it didn't (Immortan Joe: "MEDIOCRE!"), or worse...


Mutt Vader: "You need a teacher!"

"Part time."
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on December 18, 2015, 04:59:43 PM
"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am." Re-watched the OT this week. :ganishka:

Well, I'm no less biased, and for that I don't even know if I'm going too easy on it or being unfair (I'm only holding it to the standard of my favorite movies ever from my childhood =); like did I really sit back and experience it as it was or was I so up in my head about it I was basically experiencing some paralleling meta dissonance (which the movie completely facilitates btw!). I mean, it's trying to be new and old Star Wars at once, and I actually liked the new better than their attempts to be the old, so it's like a missed opportunity on both counts? I don't know, I need to see it again with some perspective, but my first impression is it never quite rang true and my gut feeling is that's because it didn't (Immortan Joe: "MEDIOCRE!"), or worse...


Mutt Vader: "You need a teacher!"

"Part time."


Maybe you're trying too hard to analyze it? Or maybe you were trying too hard to immerse yourself in it?

I just didn't feel those. I let it take me by the hand and I loved the ride. I had some issues with it, but it never didn't feel like a Star Wars movie to me.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 18, 2015, 05:23:38 PM
Maybe you're trying too hard to analyze it? Or maybe you were trying too hard to immerse yourself in it?

I just didn't feel those. I let it take me by the hand and I loved the ride. I had some issues with it, but it never didn't feel like a Star Wars movie to me.

The thing is, I wasn't trying, this was just what was coming to me, and while I disagree it felt like the Star Wars movies of old (or really did them justice), I think it was an entertaining movie that nobody has to be ashamed of enjoying. Like, normal people that aren't into Star Wars could like this, it might even be great entertainment, but I'm carrying too much baggage to simply enjoy it on that level. We'll see, I could be magnifying all the flaws vis a vis the OT, which are certainly there, while overlooking all it does well on it's own merits to just be a fun new Star Wars movie for a new generation. And since I plan to see it again at the next opportunity, they win either way! =)


Because I'm always interested in the Rotten Tomatoes consensus one-sentence write ups (which are sometimes amazingly insightful and on point), here's THe Force Awakens': Packed with action and populated by both familiar faces and fresh blood, The Force Awakens successfully recalls the series' former glory while injecting it with renewed energy.

Your mileage may vary on the how successful it is, but I can't disagree too much otherwise. Though, I also don't disagree with these negative summaries either:


http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_vii_the_force_awakens/reviews/?sort=rotten


More random thoughts:

Was it just me, or did that Rey vs. Kylo interrogation/force battle scene come off a little rapey? Was this intentional? Is it problematic or the ultimate in fangirl empowerment and pandering? Could that unfairly shame victims because there's no such equivalent force resistance in real life? Am I just trolling at this point? But seriously, someone's going to write a sincere 1000 word blog post on this at some point?

Anyway, it was certainly a bit ridiculous after a while of watching them strain and blink at each other, but so we're all her instant force powers, like during the fight, "Oh yeah, I'll just use the force powerup and win the game!"
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on December 18, 2015, 07:49:16 PM
More random thoughts:

Was it just me, or did that Rey vs. Kylo interrogation/force battle scene come off a little rapey? Was this intentional? Is it problematic or the ultimate in fangirl empowerment and pandering? Could that unfairly shame victims because there's no such equivalent force resistance in real life? Am I just trolling at this point? But seriously, someone's going to write a sincere 1000 word blog post on this at some point?

Anyway, it was certainly a bit ridiculous after a while of watching them strain and blink at each other, but so we're all her instant force powers, like during the "Oh yeah, I'll just use the force powerup and win the game!"


No, I agree. That whole scene felt pretty forced (pun heavily fucking intended, dammit). After a while it was like, Ok, we get it, you two are strong. I can't imagine them having done that scene in less than 20 takes. It was just so awkward and felt like something you would see on some late night comedy show. It's the only part of the movie where I actually was taken out of it because it was so silly.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on December 18, 2015, 08:32:17 PM
Spoiler tags, or it gets deleted. Pretty please.

Many users check the Recent Posts category, which shows everything that's happening, unless it's spoiler tagged. So even if you don't think it's a spoiler, please tag it, because some people are still trying to go into this movie not knowing anything about it.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 18, 2015, 11:45:20 PM
Yeah... sorry duder, got a little carried away and didn't figure on the "Recent Posts" factor hindering you from steering clear if you wanted. :farnese:

On a related note, I can't remember more official "non-spoiler" reviews popping up than for this movie. It's like everyone had to be first and didn't want to deter anybody. I'll even tag this purposely vague joke review and my subsequent anecdote about leaving the theater: "Read our review HERE, where we don't... talk about the movie? Well, first, I really like some parts that I'm not at liberty to mention. The cinematography really stood out as visible and the sound was perfectly audible too; music included. Also, one of my favorite characters was one of the main ones, which you'd think is a good thing, but I won't reveal if that trend continued in this film or not. Finally, in conclusion, I'll let you know what I think of the ending at another time."

BTW, NBC 4 was there for the midnight shows but I haven't seen a clip pop up anywhere so we must have sucked. I also couldn't help but do the Homer Simpson bit leaving the theater: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwZRFA0cLaM

I reflexively got dirty looks from incoming moviegoers before they realized the intel was old. :ganishka:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on December 19, 2015, 12:38:20 AM
Here's my take, not having read or heard any other opinion on it:

I enjoyed it. It entertains and pulls all the nostalgic strings. It's also just more of the same. Dense but too long. Almost more a reboot than anything really. In fact it reminded me of the first JJ Abrams Star Trek movie. Anyway, it's what the fans always wanted, but it's kind of sad to me that it manages to be even less creative than what Lucas did with the prequels. Makes it feel like the same kind of people are doomed to keep running into the same ships, the same kind of locales, and to repeat the same plots that end the same way.

Rey and Finn are easily the best characters in the movie, in that order. It was nice to see a diverse cast (especially a badass chick), although I can't help but feel it was a bit too calculated. I'm probably too cynical. Ah and I wish they had better explained why Finn out of all the troopers suddenly revolts. As it stands it feels completely arbitrary. I enjoyed the fact Kylo Ren kinda sucks, getting all angry over everything and not even being that good at his job. That being said I wish they'd found a better looking fellow. I can see why he wears a mask.

Anyhow, I guess Han Solo finally gets the death he rightfully deserved in Episode VI, so hurray for that? Too bad we could feel it coming from the other side of the galaxy though. It's also unfortunate Carrie Fisher's plastic surgery prevents her from speaking properly. That distracted me. Other than that, past the first 5 minutes hotshot Poe Flamingo was as boring as the trailers made him look. One dimensional ace pilot. Same deal for the Chrome Trooper, what is she there for again? Maybe her face to face with the compactor will turn things around in the next movie. Lastly, "Snoke" is a terrible name. And a boring character so far.


Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 19, 2015, 06:31:31 AM
Here's my take, not having read or heard any other opinion on it:

Well, be sure to read my opinion(s) for the definitive take: Whether you like the movie or not, because I'm trying both ways! :ganishka:

I enjoyed it. It entertains and pulls all the nostalgic strings. It's also just more of the same. Dense but too long. Almost more a reboot than anything really. In fact it reminded me of the first JJ Abrams Star Trek movie. Anyway, it's what the fans always wanted, but it's kind of sad to me that it manages to be even less creative than what Lucas did with the prequels.

I'm glad to hear you liked it, I was afraid I was being too kind even as I endlessly cataloged and bitched about the flaws that jumped out at me. Interesting that you mention the prequels in a kinder light as well since it also occurred to me that, while this is certainly a better movie, there was something more bold about the prequels, even in the unapologetic clumsiness of them. They dared to be downright bad like this movie never would. I think what's causing my ambivalence's is that it's trying to be all things to all people and make everybody happy. Abrams and I think Kasdan have explicitly said this, that they were trying to make something just "delightful" for literally everybody, appeal to old Star Wars fans and people that were seeing Star Wars for the first time. Well, you know what they say about trying to please everyone; I don't need the elements intended to appeal to or recreate the experience for first time viewers, and I don't think that's the natural way to go with Episode Seven organically, thus my dissatisfaction with that.

Makes it feel like the same kind of people are doomed to keep running into the same ships, the same kind of locales, and to repeat the same plots that end the same way.

Interesting way to put it, as I said above that was easily my least favorite element of it, especially since every blockbuster movie since has ripped off A New Hope so there was no reason this film needed to it so directly to establish itself as legitimate successor to STAR WARS. It just made it feel all the more derivative. The only rationale I can think of is what you said about it being like a reboot; Abrams literally wanted to recreate the original Star Wars in the process of continuing/reviving the saga. I mean, the case is all there that this was their intention, much as Ren is trying to reinvent himself as Vader and everyone else in the movie is trying to be someone from the past, rather than just laziness on their part. So, extremely uncreative or meta. Problem to me is I ultimately would have preferred a focus on Han and the new gang on the search for Skywalker. That was supposed to be the plot at the beginning after all, then the thing took a major detour down memory lane and we never got to the point until time ran out. It would have been so easy to have Luke sense the destruction of those planets ala Obi-Wan sensing Alderaan in ANH and have him leap back into action in time for the final confrontation (man did I want to see that green saber light up =). We should have seen him sensing that anyway, and/or Han's death, sometimes the movie was simply compulsive about its secrets and wanting to create some reveals at the expense of the overall experience (except where Kylo Ren and Snoke are concerned, "Yeah, your dad Han has it, sure you're up to killing him or are you a light side pussy after all? Brb gotta jump around for Planet of the Apes 3.")

Rey and Finn are easily the best characters in the movie, in that order. It was nice to see a diverse cast (especially a badass chick), although I can't help but feel it was a bit too calculated. I'm probably too cynical.

You're not being cynical at all. Abrams practically come right out with it it's so transparent, and they literally took casting cues from the Internet when there weren't enough women in that initial cast photo. But, it's all pandering anyway in the end, but instead of pandering to white males that'll see it in droves either way, he's pandering to everyone (same reason everyone that isn't old cast, like Hux, is some young-looking doofus). We're going broad, and we're going young! But they did a great job in the casting except for Hux, he sucked and added nothing but unbelievably that he's leading outfit (Sydow should have played that part). Anyway, of course Rey's the best character: she's the best mechanic, the best pilot, the best fighter, the best with the force; the best at everything! :schierke:

Ah and I wish they had better explained why Finn out of all the troopers suddenly revolts. As it stands it feels completely arbitrary. I enjoyed the fact Kylo Ren kinda sucks, getting all angry over everything and not even being that good at his job.

Agreed on both counts. Kylo is petulant Anakin done right, and thanks to acting and inference there actually seems like something more there than we even see with the simple idea that great scoundrels don't necessarily make great dads.

That being said I wish they'd found a better looking fellow. I can see why he wears a mask.

My wife agrees with you there. :carcus: I thought the look worked for the character though and I even see a superficial resemblance to Ford in there, not in handsomeness, but just certain features that further already suggested the connection from his casting.

Anyhow, I guess Han Solo finally gets the death he rightfully deserved in Episode VI, so hurray for that? Too bad we could feel it coming from the other side of the galaxy though.

Tell me about it; I read it in an untagged article, as an aside, on Making Star Wars like over a year ago. :judo:

Also, not quite the one he deserved in VI since he was supposed to die saving his friends, thus completing his arc from selfish opportunist to altruistic hero. In the context of this film it was more tragic comeuppance. Though it was a redemption for the character in the sense he was a total bore in Jedi and Ford was was completely phoning it in at that point. It was nice to see him invested and excited again, delivering the best lines and stealing scenes ("Escape now. Hug later." "That's not how the force works!" =) I still feel bad for Chewie though. =(


It's also unfortunate Carrie Fisher's plastic surgery prevents her from speaking properly. That distracted me.

Despite being a seemingly brilliant and talented woman she's clearly struggled with drugs and mental illness and come out looking/sounding rough for it. While it's too bad this was the best they could do now, look at her last year and tell me it's not a miracle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRGbJ67Ejzk

I saw this and was like YIKES! So she and the producers did an admirable job getting her prepped for this because beyond natural age she's clearly transformed drastically into almost a completely different person from the Leia character. She's only 59 but she looks almost as old as Ford, and she's seemingly aged 30 years in the last 15. Just look:

2000: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZEFznFE_Sk
2005: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ97s396kb0
2010: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqmdxFmk5a8
2013: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMSLF_NyX0Q

I wonder what combination of booze/smoke/age shot her voice too. Hamil and Ford are no prizes either at this point of course, another reason Luke should have done more in this movie while he's got something left, but Ford's in his 70's and Hamil went pretty downhill in appearance not long after Star Wars. Maybe the moral is that Carrie Fisher actually aged pretty damn well into her 40's all things considered and so the dropoff in her 50's was more steep.


Other than that, past the first 5 minutes hotshot Poe Flamingo was as boring as the trailers made him look. One dimensional ace pilot. Same deal for the Chrome Trooper, what is she there for again? Maybe her face to face with the compactor will turn things around in the next movie. Lastly, "Snoke" is a terrible name. And a boring character so far.

Yeah, those guys were rejects right out of the old EU. Poe has potential at least and wasn't really as important as the film's introduction might lead one to think, but unless Snoke is secretly Luke Skywalker in disguise ala the Wizard of Oz he's a pretty lame Palpatine clone (hopefully not literally).
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on December 19, 2015, 11:37:35 AM
I'm glad to hear you liked it, I was afraid I was being too kind even as I endlessly cataloged and bitched about the flaws that jumped out at me.

Well it was entertaining, it's really all I can say. Hard not to enjoy seeing the Force and lightsabers in action, or even just spaceship battles. However, having read this thread, I completely agree with every criticism you or m voiced and then some. It's tempting to nitpick the movie to death. That being said, I didn't mind the Force struggle between Rey and Kylo. Didn't feel "rape-like" at all to me, or having any kind of sexual connotation. Just a harrowing mental battle between two people. I liked that scene.

Interesting that you mention the prequels in a kinder light as well since it also occurred to me that, while this is certainly a better movie, there was something more bold about the prequels, even in the unapologetic clumsiness of them. They dared to be downright bad like this movie never would.

It's actually something I've often said about the Star Wars franchise: that its main fault was not widening the scope of its universe, making it instead feel smaller over time as every detail in the original movies became a template for everything in the universe. But for what it's worth Lucas made some new things up and tried to tell a different story. Meanwhile, this is like a comic book revamp of "A New Hope". Ultimate Star Wars!

I think what's causing my ambivalence's is that it's trying to be all things to all people and make everybody happy. Abrams and I think Kasdan have explicitly said this, that they were trying to make something just "delightful" for literally everybody, appeal to old Star Wars fans and people that were seeing Star Wars for the first time. Well, you know what they say about trying to please everyone; I don't need the elements intended to appeal to or recreate the experience for first time viewers, and I don't think that's the natural way to go with Episode Seven organically, thus my dissatisfaction with that.

The whole "episode" thing is kind of a gimmick in truth. This is a sequel in name only, with the old heroes only put in there so that they can pass the torch to the new generation.

I ultimately would have preferred a focus on Han and the new gang on the search for Skywalker. That was supposed to be the plot at the beginning after all, then the thing took a major detour down memory lane and we never got to the point until time ran out.

Yeah, it would have been more rewarding for it to take a slower pace, I think. Like Finn and Rey stumbling on Han and just struggling to get to the rebel base, and at the very end they'd meet Leia. Then the big showdown between Han and Ben could have happened in the next movie. That'd have felt more like "there, this is out of the way". As it stands, the second movie could have 30 min of Luke, 10 minutes of Leia and from then on, full on new cast. Which is fine, why not, but that's not how a proper sequel is constructed. Then again, it would have probably been difficult (and very expensive) to get Harrison Ford in two movies).

sometimes the movie was simply compulsive about its secrets and wanting to create some reveals at the expense of the overall experience (except where Kylo Ren and Snoke are concerned, "Yeah, your dad Han has it, sure you're up to killing him or are you a light side pussy after all? Brb gotta jump around for Planet of the Apes 3.")

Lol yeah, I had been spoiled Kylo Ren's identity on Wednesday (like, hours after the theater openings in the US) on some news site's comments section, but given how casually and early on it's revealed that was barely a spoiler at all. Strange choice.

You're not being cynical at all. Abrams practically come right out with it it's so transparent, and they literally took casting cues from the Internet when there weren't enough women in that initial cast photo. But, it's all pandering anyway in the end, but instead of pandering to white males that'll see it in droves either way, he's pandering to everyone (same reason everyone that isn't old cast, like Hux, is some young-looking doofus). We're going broad, and we're going young! But they did a great job in the casting except for Hux, he sucked and added nothing but unbelievably that he's leading outfit (Sydow should have played that part). Anyway, of course Rey's the best character: she's the best mechanic, the best pilot, the best fighter, the best with the force; the best at everything! :schierke:

Teen Star Wars! Yeah Hux is really, really lame. Completely unbelievable. And yeah they do make Rey the absolute best at everything. :ganishka:

Agreed on both counts. Kylo is petulant Anakin done right, and thanks to acting and inference there actually seems like something more there than we even see with the simple idea that great scoundrels don't necessarily make great dads. [...] My wife agrees with you there. :carcus: I thought the look worked for the character though and I even see a superficial resemblance to Ford in there, not in handsomeness, but just certain features that further already suggested the connection from his casting.

I don't really see the resemblance but it's fine, and yeah I enjoyed his acting at least; he played his part well. I already dread whatever lame motivation they'll find to justify why he betrayed his family to join the bad guys, though.

Tell me about it; I read it in an untagged article, as an aside, on Making Star Wars like over a year ago. :judo:

Also, not quite the one he deserved in VI since he was supposed to die saving his friends, thus completing his arc from selfish opportunist to altruistic hero. In the context of this film it was more tragic comeuppance. Though it was a redemption for the character in the sense he was a total bore in Jedi and Ford was was completely phoning it in at that point. It was nice to see him invested and excited again, delivering the best lines and stealing scenes ("Escape now. Hug later." "That's not how the force works!" =)

Awww, sorry to hear about that. But honestly it was so predictable that I expected it despite not having been spoiled that part. Anyway, you're right that it's actually not quite what Ep VI could have been, and it was in a way almost a death of convenience for the character. Not unlike Obi-Wan's, but with an even thinner justification. Speaking of Obi-Wan, who was the dude at the beginning even supposed to be? Because he just came across as a Kenobi lookalike to me.

Despite being a seemingly brilliant and talented woman she's clearly struggled with drugs and mental illness and come out looking/sounding rough for it. While it's too bad this was the best they could do now, look at her last year and tell me it's not a miracle

I saw this and was like YIKES! So she and the producers did an admirable job getting her prepped for this because beyond natural age she's clearly transformed drastically into almost a completely different person from the Leia character. She's only 59 but she looks almost as old as Ford, and she's seemingly aged 30 years in the last 15. Just look:

I wonder what combination of booze/smoke/age shot her voice too. Hamil and Ford are no prizes either at this point of course, another reason Luke should have done more in this movie while he's got something left, but Ford's in his 70's and Hamil went pretty downhill in appearance not long after Star Wars. Maybe the moral is that Carrie Fisher actually aged pretty damn well into her 40's all things considered and so the dropoff in her 50's was more steep.

Damn, yeah she did deteriorate super fast at some point, although I'm still not sure I like her better now compared to a year ago. And Ford's no prize either, that's for sure. He's just too old now. Too bad, makes me wonder what might have been if these new movies at been made in the 2000s, when they were still fresh (well, save for Mark Hamill lol).

Yeah, those guys were rejects right out of the old EU. Poe has potential at least and wasn't really as important as the film's introduction might lead one to think, but unless Snoke is secretly Luke Skywalker in disguise ala the Wizard of Oz he's a pretty lame Palpatine clone (hopefully not literally).

Hahaha, dude that's exactly what went through my head for the whole movie. The Wizard of Oz reference feels obvious and for him to be Luke is basically the only cool explanation there could be. Unfortunately given the movie's content that's pretty clearly not happening, so... Either a Palpatine clone or just a dude they pulled out of a hat. Oh well.

By the way, one thing that was really jarring to me is how contrived the political picture is. The First Order controls the remnants of the old empire's fleet and troops, but there's a Republic? And there's still rebels? What? Someone said it in the thread, but the First Order should be the ones facing a bigger opponent and not the other way around. Felt kind of ridiculous, and what to say of the Republic's significance when it was blown away in 2 minutes as a test run for the SUPER DEATHSTAR MAX 3000? It felt like they had to acknowledge the Republic but wanted to get rid of it as soon as possible.

P.S. Kylo's sword design is still stupid.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Slime_Beherit on December 19, 2015, 08:51:55 PM
Well at least we found out how the King of the Flower Storm looks, I can't wait for Luke to cure Casca. Seriously though, it must be pretty cool for Miura to have his main character arrive at skellig in the same year as the Star Wars protagonist.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: NightCrawler on December 19, 2015, 09:01:15 PM
It's funny how i've been reading a lot of complains over the politics in this movie. George Lucas knew what the fans wanted all along.  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: m on December 19, 2015, 09:14:23 PM
Otherwise, 3PO and especially R2 didn't even need to be in the movie. R2 was in full McGuffin mode until the plot was over. "Hey, now he works and we can find Luke!" Couldn't that have happened any time after they got the missing part of the map? That is some convenient plot-driven garbage right there.

And I don't think it was the only instance...

The thing is, I wasn't trying, this was just what was coming to me, and while I disagree it felt like the Star Wars movies of old (or really did them justice), I think it was an entertaining movie that nobody has to be ashamed of enjoying.

My opinion on this is closer to Johnstantine's. I came out of the theater thinking that this was indeed a Star Wars movie, for better or worse. But perhaps I need to mention that I didn't like the original trilogy as much as many other people did, and I didn't hate the prequels as many people did, so most likely my biases are different than Johnstantine's and yours. I recently watched all six movies, the prequels for only the second time, and my opinion didn't change overall. This time around it was clear to me that the prequels were worse than I thought on first viewing, but I didn't hate them.

It was nice to see a diverse cast (especially a badass chick), although I can't help but feel it was a bit too calculated.

I hear you, but I want to take it as a step in the right direction anyway.

Ah and I wish they had better explained why Finn out of all the troopers suddenly revolts.

I just assumed that the conditioning all Storm Troopers are subjected to doesn't stick the same way on all of them. But perhaps this is something that will be expanded on next time? Who knows, this could be the key to the next episodes just as Jar-Jar Binks was for the prequels. :troll: Kidding aside, it would have been interesting to have more information on this. On a related note, I think not explaining things in a good way is something I think this movie did on a few counts. I also got the feeling that the final movie ended up being a lot shorter that what it was meant to be, which is perhaps why some things are not as clear as they could be.

P.S. Kylo's sword design is still stupid.

I couldn't agree more. It was nice that he used the special design during a fight, but still.

One final thought: it would be great to listen to a Skullcast about this movie. Just sayin'...  :carcus:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on December 20, 2015, 12:00:00 AM
It's funny how i've been reading a lot of complains over the politics in this movie. George Lucas knew what the fans wanted all along.  :ganishka:

I doubt people would have minded had there been no space politics involved at all. But they not only put some in there, they half-assed it too... so frankly it's normal people complain.

I need to mention that I didn't like the original trilogy as much as many other people did, and I didn't hate the prequels as many people did, so most likely my biases are different than Johnstantine's and yours. I recently watched all six movies, the prequels for only the second time, and my opinion didn't change overall.

I find that... disturbing. :femto:

I hear you, but I want to take it as a step in the right direction anyway.

Yeah, I really liked how it ended up with those two characters, regardless of why it did.

I just assumed that the conditioning all Storm Troopers are subjected to doesn't stick the same way on all of them. But perhaps this is something that will be expanded on next time? Who knows, this could be the key to the next episodes just as Jar-Jar Binks was for the prequels. :troll: Kidding aside, it would have been interesting to have more information on this. On a related note, I think not explaining things in a good way is something I think this movie did on a few counts. I also got the feeling that the final movie ended up being a lot shorter that what it was meant to be, which is perhaps why some things are not as clear as they could be.

Oh yeah, lots of stuff basically came out of nowhere. If we start on this it'll take hours to list. As for the movie having been shortened, maybe. That would certainly explain why a lot of stuff comes and goes like it does. Thing is, I felt the movie was already trying to do too much at once, so having it even longer and packed with even more stuff would have probably made it a chore to watch.

One final thought: it would be great to listen to a Skullcast about this movie. Just sayin'...  :carcus:

Walter won't see it till after the next podcast unfortunately, but I think Griff and I will probably chat about it for a bit after the episode talk.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Nomad on December 20, 2015, 05:15:57 AM
Finally was able to watch it today and frankly, the 1st 10 minutes made me forget about the prequels which is an accomplishment on it's own.

One thing that I truly appreciate is Kylo Ren's position on self conflict in wanting to be joining the dark side. I find his praise towards Vader quite fitting given the circumstances on how fans have carried the character for all these years.  Though I don't know what the writer's intentions were, but it's a nice little detail that I appreciated. Force tantrums was also an interesting detail and displayed exactly on what level Kylo Ren truly is when he's in a pickle. If anything, I'd say it felt natural. I do agree with Griffith in the statement of him being beaten by a fresh-out-a the midiclorian meter (pun intended).  But I look forward in what else he's bringing to the table

Finn and Rey certainly made a good mark and I look forward on their developments as well.  Though I find a bit hard to swallow Rey's 30 minute self-teaching and development of the force.  I'm sure I'm not alone in this remark. I'm hoping for a not-so out of the bag origin that could support her errrrr atributes?  No complaints about Finn in any way.

The Solo thing really hit me only because I really didn't give it any thought pre-release. I'm not sure if I am at peace with it (starting to hate the confrontation walkway's with no railings). And though I can understand why, I'm not sure if the timing was right.

The overall experience was a positive one in my book.  I didn't mind the New Hope blueprint they used for this...Well, except for the Starkiller part (others have already expressed the dislike on the matter).  And I certainly look forward to the next ones to come.  The movie has flaws, but I feel relieved that we now are passed Return of the Jedi from long years of wishful thinking.

PS.  BB8 was a huge plus.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Salem on December 20, 2015, 12:43:12 PM
I enjoyed the movie and had no doubt I'd stumble upon people complaining, overanalyzing or just being debbie downers.  Some of that has merit, no doubt, but the sequel to this film really will tell us IF the force awakens is truly a good start.  So many questions that answers to could be meh or fantastic. 

Rey is obviously Lukes daughter and her random force awakening is in part due to her training as a child before her cousin killed everyone and Luke was like screw it I'm out.  Also wouldn't be out of the ballpark to say Luke could influence Rey telepathically like Luke and sis communicating.

Also, why haven't any of you brought up a certain "wise" new character possibly being a certain cloaked asshats original trainer?  Seems fairly likely.

Speculating, but let me reach a bit and quote.

"Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying." 

And say that this "snoke" will end up being Lukes grandfather, who created life in Anakins mother and was ultimately not killed by Sid.  Yep, that's what I'm going with.


Could be soooooo wrong, but I'll hold onto this until it's fleshed out.  Good luck to whoever writes the next one.  So much hinges upon that.

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on December 20, 2015, 01:20:07 PM
the sequel to this film really will tell us IF the force awakens is truly a good start.

I think this movie can stand judgment on its own without needing a sequel for validation. What the sequels will tell us is whether the entire enterprise is good or not.

Also, why haven't any of you brought up a certain "wise" new character possibly being a certain cloaked asshats original trainer?  Seems fairly likely.

Speculating, but let me reach a bit and quote. "Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying." And say that this "snoke" will end up being Lukes grandfather, who created life in Anakins mother and was ultimately not killed by Sid.  Yep, that's what I'm going with.

Do we really want this whole midichlorians bullshit back in the spotlight though? :magni: Other than that, it'd make some sense but where was the guy all this time? Also Han seemed to know some things about Snoke, given what he told Ben ("he's just using your for your powers, then he'll crush you"). Not sure that works towards your idea (that they're family).
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Salem on December 20, 2015, 01:38:11 PM
I really believe the mids will tie in and I do agree that they should leave it alone.  That being said I wouldn't be surprised if we went that route.  Snoke has some major wounds that appear to be from a lightsaber.  I know some are saying he isn't interesting, but neither was Palpatine at first.  I always got the creeps in jedi from that guy!  Another big reason I think Snoke is who he is was VERY similar music plays when snoke is introduced that is played when Palpatine explains to Anakin about his master....


This whole sequel thought comes from the fact that movies lately seem to hinge on the sequel.  Almost like we're watching some 3 episode series on cable.  There is so much that could really be a downer when it gets explained, or not.  It's as if we're watching part of a movie, knowing this is the first act, insert cliffhanger.

As to where he's been, I believe Palpatine had been after certain systems in the outer rim, which he claimed his power came from.  Highly conceivable that he is in some hidden cluster for "insert random reason".  Ultimately I hope whatever he is and why he's doing what he's doing is very memorable.  Would be a little strange for what appears to be a very ancient gollum to just be some leftover bad guy from any previous film, which still begs the question, where was he this whole time? 


Way too many people who grew up with fond memories of certain movies look to find every flaw to justify their memory.  Good lord, I love Star Wars, but they're all a little hokey.   :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on December 20, 2015, 02:17:11 PM
I really believe the mids will tie in and I do agree that they should leave it alone.  That being said I wouldn't be surprised if we went that route.  Snoke has some major wounds that appear to be from a lightsaber.  I know some are saying he isn't interesting, but neither was Palpatine at first.  I always got the creeps in jedi from that guy!  Another big reason I think Snoke is who he is was VERY similar music plays when snoke is introduced that is played when Palpatine explains to Anakin about his master....

Well the emperor was cool in the original trilogy because he was an old evil wizard who stayed mysterious (pulling the strings in the shadows) until the very end where it was revealed he was actually pretty badass (basically defeating Luke effortlessly). I don't think Snoke lives up to that. So... hopefully it turns out there's a cool twist in the sequels, we'll see. I'm not holding my breath though. I wonder if they'll just make him into a kind of Darth Yoda.

This whole sequel thought comes from the fact that movies lately seem to hinge on the sequel.  Almost like we're watching some 3 episode series on cable.  There is so much that could really be a downer when it gets explained, or not.  It's as if we're watching part of a movie, knowing this is the first act, insert cliffhanger.

Yeah I get what you mean, but to me that's not how movies should be considered. But certainly the next two episodes will retroactively affect how we think of this one.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 21, 2015, 02:42:58 AM
Way too many people who grew up with fond memories of certain movies look to find every flaw to justify their memory. Good lord, I love Star Wars, but they're all a little hokey.   :griffnotevil:

That doesn't really follow, and you're the one making a faulty comparison to justify something. If you have to bring the original Star Wars trilogy down a notch to try and elevate this film to the same level, that doesn't speak well of it. If you have explicit reasons, as others have already expressed, please share (so far I've found these opposing perspectives quite convincing), otherwise lighten up on the insinuations about who's being partial. I'm quite proud of the different takes in this thread, positive and negative, and how objective and reasoned they've been. Far more nuanced takes than the initial press reviews.

Well the emperor was cool in the original trilogy because he was an old evil wizard who stayed mysterious (pulling the strings in the shadows) until the very end where it was revealed he was actually pretty badass (basically defeating Luke effortlessly). I don't think Snoke lives up to that. So... hopefully it turns out there's a cool twist in the sequels, we'll see. I'm not holding my breath though.

Yeah, I don't get this, the Emperor was fine from the start and ended up being great in Jedi, unless we're counting the crappy prequels again? Which, again, we shouldn't.


Salem, you're not some prequel adherent, are you? I mean, if we're counting those then sure the new movie rates better, but that's not equivalent to the first three which were established as classics long before this debate had reason to exist. Here's a question: do we think this movie is good enough to be a classic or is going to be considered such? That may not be a fair standard, but it's also not fair to disregard that stautus of the old movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Delta Phi on December 21, 2015, 04:57:09 AM
Alright guys, I over-hyped it like I knew I would. I'll give some of my opinions:

I really enjoyed it (figuring out when I can go see it again), but as I walked out of the theater, I was a little unsure of how I felt over all. I think my biggest conflict was that the movie was clearly Star Wars, but it didn't exactly feel like Star Wars to me the same way that even the Prequels did. I think Griff mentioned something similar earlier in the thread.

As stated before by others, Finn and Rey's chemistry was great and I look forward to more of that. They really blew everyone else out of the water, in my opinion. However, a couple times where Finn was most excited, my suspense of disbelief cracked. John Boyega suddenly seemed to be playing a character from our universe who was trapped in the Star Wars universe. Not sure how else to describe it. Maybe I'm just used to the traditionally stiff acting in these movies. Anyway, it was still better than listening to Hayden "Cardboard" Christiensen regurgitate his lines at his co-stars. And the last thing I'll mention about performances is echoing Aaz on Carrie Fisher. Her literal stiff upper lip was pretty jarring.

I had actually stayed in the dark really well for this movie having only seen the trailers and some tv spots, and only heard about Abrams's interest in A New Hope after I had seen the movie. That said, in the beginning with the village invasion, secreting away of data in a droid, and subsequent arrival of Kylo Ren to do interrogation, I immediately thought to myself, "Wait, this is totally the opening to A New Hope." Of course from that moment on I kept seeing all the parallels throughout and I think it took me out of the experience a bit.

Captain Phasma, for all her build up and preconceived badassery, ended up being just the butt of a nostalgia joke. Disappointing. I had hopes for an awesome new Boba Fett analogue. Maybe in the next one, but, I don't know, I think I'm going to have a hard time taking her seriously when she shows up again.

I actually kind of appreciated not beating around the bush with Kylo Ren's parentage (I probably would have groaned at a dramatic reveal, honestly), and I have to admit, having not read ANYTHING about the Extended Universe except some tidbits here and there, I didn't expect he would be Han and Leia's child. I'm just glad it wasn't Luke, which was something I legitimately feared as the release date drew near. But after the nonchalant reveal, I thought they handled it too explicitly. "You're father, HAN SOLO...", "I saw our SON," etc. Again, I think Griff mentioned before that it would have been better just using pronouns and letting the audience simply put the pieces together. It just seemed like any time Han or Leia wanted to talk about it, they needed to explicitly remind us that he was their progeny.

Speaking of Han...that scene didn't really resonate with me like I thought it should.

And lastly, I thought the final fight between Kylo Ren and the protagonists was pretty awesome. Not flashy, certainly unrefined, kind of bridging the gap between the Prequels and OT. I especially enjoyed the development of the conflict with Finn being defeated and Rey stepping in to finish. I thought it was great, even considering Rey's uncanny ability to just suddenly be great a using the Force (something she presumably doesn't know a whole lot about since it was all just legend to her).


I'm sure I'm leaving out so much I wanna get off my chest, but I've been sitting here way too long  :serpico:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on December 21, 2015, 10:44:51 AM
If you have to bring the original Star Wars trilogy down a notch to try and elevate this film to the same level, that doesn't speak well of it.

Indeed.

Yeah, I don't get this, the Emperor was fine from the start and ended up being great in Jedi, unless we're counting the crappy prequels again? Which, again, we shouldn't.

We definitely aren't counting the prequels. Hell, I wouldn't mind just limiting the comparison to A New Hope... Nor would I mind dropping those tacked on titles and just calling it "Star Wars". :iva:

Here's a question: do we think this movie is good enough to be a classic or is going to be considered such?

Its nature as a quasi-reboot, immensely inspired from the first trilogy, makes it impossible for it to ever be a classic IMHO.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Salem on December 21, 2015, 11:11:52 AM
Griff,
I'm a little confused how you got all the prequel nonsense off my statement.  The emperor wasn't in a new hope and the only point I was trying to establish was Snoke will be a big deal, eventually.

My opinion, seems I struck a cord with calling one of my favorite series a little hokey, is TFU is on par with ROTS and most of ROTJ.  Does it surpass episode 4 and 5?  Lol

How did I bring the originals down a notch?  I usually avoid Sk.net simply because of the neverending negative opinions of anything non berserk related.  Couldn't help myself this time. 



Added spoiler tags. -Griff
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 21, 2015, 03:41:28 PM
We definitely aren't counting the prequels. Hell, I wouldn't mind just limiting the comparison to A New Hope... Nor would I mind dropping those tacked on titles and just calling it "Star Wars". :iva:

Indeed, I only watch the theatrical cuts (not that I'm some purist zealot :troll:).


Its nature as a quasi-reboot, immensely inspired from the first trilogy, makes it impossible for it to ever be a classic IMHO.

Yeah, and, partly because of that, I just don't think it's good enough on its own merits. It has potential, and if it had focused more on it's new characters in an original plot about the search for Skywalker or something it may have indeed achieved that. Though, part of me wonders if we'd give this the time of day at all if it wasn't "Star Wars." There's plenty of objectively enjoyable or entertaining young adult fantasy these days that I don't give two shits about. Anyway, looking forward to seeing this again with some perspective and properly attuned expectations.

Griff,
I'm a little confused how you got all the prequel nonsense off my statement.  The emperor wasn't in a new hope and the only point I was trying to establish was Snoke will be a big deal, eventually.

I was trying to reconcile your statement about the Emperor and making an inference based on your references to Darth Plagueis and midichlorians (and because Palpatine wasn't very impressive at first, if at all, in the prequels). Sticking to the original trilogy, I don't think Snoke and the Emperor compare very well just yet because the Emperor was this mysterious faraway figure in the beginning that didn't need to live up to anything other than being the guy Darth Vader bows to, whereas Snoke already had a literally large presence in the film and few scenes meant to make him imposing and an obvious Emperor analog, but he wasn't really anything special nor did I feel he lived up to that. Here's hoping he becomes more interesting and original once fully revealed, but I wouldn't say I'm looking forward to it or that I  find him intriguing thus far. He's just a figurative, and maybe literal, Emperor clone that serves a role but not much else.

My opinion, seems I struck a cord with calling one of my favorite series a little hokey, is TFU is on par with ROTS and most of ROTJ.  Does it surpass episode 4 and 5?  Lol

So, "no" then? Anyway, it was more that it was your second comment vaguely dismissing reasoned criticisms as merely some sort of defensive nostalgia which seemed to me defensive about the new movie.

How did I bring the originals down a notch?

Again, it was the insinuation that it was merely devotion to the originals coloring criticisms of the new film, rather than the originals being as good as advertised and the jury being out on this one. There's plenty of puerile stuff in the original Star Wars movies of course, but also elements that helped it transcend its genre conventions (Star Wars and Empire are considered legitimately great or important films), so it's fair to question whether this new venture lives up to that. Not that it has to in order to be worthwhile, but I wouldn't casually lump them all together either.

I usually avoid Sk.net simply because of the neverending negative opinions of anything non berserk related.  Couldn't help myself this time.

Well, thanks for brightening up our day with that bit of sunshine. You didn't have to self-immolate over it though, if that's what happened.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on December 21, 2015, 04:14:22 PM
Though, part of me wonders if we'd give this the time of day at all if it wasn't "Star Wars." There's plenty of objectively enjoyable or entertaining young adult fantasy these days that I don't give two shits about. Anyway, looking forward to seeing this again with some perspective and properly attuned expectations.

But what about THE HUNGER GAMES?! Actually, no kidding, the line for the last Hunger Games movie was as long as the one for Star Wars at the theater I went to, despite having been out for a month.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 21, 2015, 04:51:39 PM
But what about THE HUNGER GAMES?! Actually, no kidding, the line for the last Hunger Games movie was as long as the one for Star Wars at the theater I went to, despite having been out for a month.

That's another fear, that Star Wars isn't only being reduced to Harry Potter or The Hunger Games, but something like the Percy Jackson films. :ganishka: I mean all this chosen one blockbuster bullshit is already a rehash of Star Wars by other people to an extent, so is this really any different? Is it just distilling, or diluting, what made the old ones iconic while losing what nuance it had? "Oh yeah, I got FORCE™! I win!" I mean, if I think some of the Star Warsy stuff in this movie came off a bit goofy, or hokey to borrow the term,  what's a generation that doesn't give a shit in the first place going to think? I work around a lot of young people, and they indeed don't seem to give a shit about this. Anyway, I guess the fear that this would be too compelling a modernization that it would make people forget the original Star Wars were unwarranted, and it's still a better last impression than the prequels (though they were so bad you almost had to refer to the originals, whereas I don't know how I feel about this being the new default of what Star Wars is).
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on December 21, 2015, 07:24:07 PM
http://www.vox.com/2015/12/21/10634206/star-wars-force-awakens-box-office (http://www.vox.com/2015/12/21/10634206/star-wars-force-awakens-box-office)

No surprise there. Just glad it beat the shitshow that is/was Jurassic World.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 21, 2015, 07:38:12 PM
http://www.vox.com/2015/12/21/10634206/star-wars-force-awakens-box-office (http://www.vox.com/2015/12/21/10634206/star-wars-force-awakens-box-office)

No surprise there. Just glad it beat the shitshow that is/was Jurassic World.

It's box office success pleases me as well, now it just needs to avenge Phantom Menace against Titanic and take down Avatar and all box office grudges will be settled!

Funny you contrast it positively against Jurassic World though; debates of subjective quality aside, isn't that in the same mold and basically it's closest equivalent (along with Star Trek 2009 for different reasons)? A "soft reboot" that technically exists in the same continuity but is basically a remake/revival with some modern wrinkles? I saw Jurassic World again recently and enjoyed it much more the second time because I knew exactly what it wasn't; so, who cares if it's truly of "classic" quality if it's basically just a reproduction anyway (that may redeem The Force Awakens for me, ultimately)? Plus, the second time I could focus on just how much it was also ripping off Aliens and kind of appreciate the nobility of that pursuit. But yeah, it's purely junk food while The Force Awakens at least has some compelling characters, accompanying story threads and some genuine forward momentum).
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on December 21, 2015, 08:52:00 PM

Funny you contrast it positively against Jurassic World though; debates of subjective quality aside, isn't that in the same mold and basically it's closest equivalent (along with Star Trek 2009 for different reasons)? A "soft reboot" that technically exists in the same continuity but is basically a remake/revival with some modern wrinkles? I saw Jurassic World again recently and enjoyed it much more the second time because I knew exactly what it wasn't; so, who cares if it's truly of "classic" quality if it's basically just a reproduction anyway (that may redeem The Force Awakens for me, ultimately)? Plus, the second time I could focus on just how much it was also ripping off Aliens and kind of appreciate the nobility of that pursuit. But yeah, it's purely junk food while The Force Awakens at least has some compelling characters, accompanying story threads and some genuine forward momentum).

I've never been a huge fan of the Jurassic Park stuff. I actually preferred JP3 to JW. JW was just not...good. Hence why I called it a shitshow. Even after (forced) multiple viewings, it got worse for me. But, again, I'm not the right person to ask about it.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Skullgrin140 on December 22, 2015, 02:41:35 PM
Saw it yesterday and for the most part, I enjoyed it. It was not a great or perfect movie by any stretch of the imagination but it was a good Star Wars movie all around. Especially with how I feel by now everyone has been sullied by the prequels and everyone's resentment towards them The Force Awakens turned out to be just what the series needed to reignite the excitement the series used to have before everything became somewhat sour. Sort of excited to know where everything goes from here now actually.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Tama on December 22, 2015, 02:56:34 PM
This will probably sound really dumb, but I have never experienced the Star Wars prequels. I watched the original trilogy growing up and loved them, but never went to the theater for those. Are they as bad as people make them out to be, or is it exaggerated? I'm still debating if I should watch them all before the Force Awakens. Thanks everyone! :)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Skullgrin140 on December 22, 2015, 03:07:08 PM
This will probably sound really dumb, but I have never experienced the Star Wars prequels. I watched the original trilogy growing up and loved them, but never went to the theater for those. Are they as bad as people make them out to be, or is it exaggerated? I'm still debating if I should watch them all before the Force Awakens. Thanks everyone! :)

It's not dumb in the slightest, I'd say go watch the Prequels then form your own opinion. Everyone is split between either liking them or despising them until the cows come home, That said they do have their moments and there are little elements from the Prequels that are worth getting into.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on December 22, 2015, 03:27:23 PM
This will probably sound really dumb, but I have never experienced the Star Wars prequels. I watched the original trilogy growing up and loved them, but never went to the theater for those. Are they as bad as people make them out to be, or is it exaggerated? I'm still debating if I should watch them all before the Force Awakens. Thanks everyone! :)

I would recommend watching episodes 1 and 2, then watching all of the Clone Wars series, then episode 3.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 22, 2015, 04:05:45 PM
This will probably sound really dumb, but I have never experienced the Star Wars prequels.

Sounds really smart, actually. :slan:

I watched the original trilogy growing up and loved them, but never went to the theater for those. Are they as bad as people make them out to be, or is it exaggerated?

They're worse than you're imagining, trust me. Bitching about them at this point has become asinine, but they're just not very good movies and look even worse compared to the originals. The best I can describe it is think direct-to-video quality but made with unlimited resources. Yeah, it's bewildering.

I'm still debating if I should watch them all before the Force Awakens.

No, just don't. Unless you want to re-calibrate your expectations because you haven't seen a truly bad Star Wars movie yet. But just think, you can spare yourself from a universally reviled experience and be happier for it! I envy your position, don't give it up out of some false sense of completion. I've worked hard to scrub my brain of those films. I'm proud to say I confuse people when discussing the saga because I keep involuntarily referring to The Force Awakens as "the fourth movie."

Thanks everyone! :)

Don't thank the previous posters who responded to your query; they gave you bad advice. :ganishka:

I would recommend watching episodes 1 and 2, then watching all of the Clone Wars series, then episode 3.

Warning: Based on that statement this man is a possibly a sadomasochist. :troll:


But yeah, I guess you could just watch them and decide for yourself. *shrug*
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on December 22, 2015, 04:31:16 PM
Warning: Based on that statement this man is a possibly a sadomasochist. :troll:

I wish that weren't the case, but as I've said on the board in the past...watching the Clone Wars series actually makes the prequels better tolerable. I actually don't mind them anymore.

Phantom Menace still sucks, though.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 22, 2015, 04:57:13 PM
I wish that weren't the case, but as I've said on the board in the past...watching the Clone Wars series actually makes the prequels better tolerable. I actually don't mind them anymore.

I don't mind that they exist, but bad is bad. I never watched Clone Wars but I've heard from you and others it's the best thing to come of the Star Wars prequel revival (movie looked terrible though).

Phantom Menace still sucks, though.

Yeah, too bad it inspired a new generation of CGI blockbusters. It's interesting to look at the evolution of those films: the first one Lucas hadn't directed a movie in over 20 and you can tell, it's just a bunch of ideas and CGI clips strewn together like in a lab. The second movie he remembered the importance of things like three acts, arcs, pacing, events, etc and made a bad movie but a movie nonetheless. Finally, he made what was on paper what a Star Wars prequel should have been (it's really the only one worth watching at all since the other two are basically meaningless), but it was such an over the top, overcompensating and operatic, self-satirizing mess (it's almost so bad it's good) that it's best appreciated like a play. Maybe it should have been a musical.

ANAKIN: "I'M TURNING TO THE DARK SIDE!"
CHOIR: "HE'S TURNING TO THE DARK SIDE! WOOOOOOOOE!!!"
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on December 22, 2015, 05:19:52 PM
Finally, he made what was on paper what a Star Wars prequel should have been (it's really the only one worth watching at all since the other two are basically meaningless), but it was such an over the top, overcompensating and operatic, self-satirizing mess (it's almost so bad it's good) that it's best appreciated like a play.

I agree with you completely.

Also, the Clone Wars movie wasn't too bad. It was actually supposed to be the first three episodes of the series, but Lucas wanted it in theaters. The CGI sucks, but the story isn't too bad. It leads to the best Star Wars since ESB, in my opinion. The whole series makes you really enjoy Anakin a lot and makes it actually feel sad knowing that this:

Quote
ANAKIN: "I'M TURNING TO THE DARK SIDE!"
CHOIR: "HE'S TURNING TO THE DARK SIDE! WOOOOOOOOE!!!"

doesn't happen overnight like it did in the movies.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Tama on December 22, 2015, 05:43:51 PM
Thank you Griffith and everyone for the input. One other question I had; are most of the prequels solely dependent on CGI? I grew up in the 80s and 90s and I love practical effects like The Thing or Ray Harryhausen's work, and while I heard the Force Awakens has more traditional models and props like this, I'm not sure about the other trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on December 22, 2015, 05:58:30 PM
Thank you Griffith and everyone for the input. One other question I had; are most of the prequels solely dependent on CGI? I grew up in the 80s and 90s and I love practical effects like The Thing or Ray Harryhausen's work, and while I heard the Force Awakens has more traditional models and props like this, I'm not sure about the other trilogy.

90-95% of the movies are green screen. And they look awful.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on December 22, 2015, 09:22:27 PM
This will probably sound really dumb, but I have never experienced the Star Wars prequels. I watched the original trilogy growing up and loved them, but never went to the theater for those. Are they as bad as people make them out to be, or is it exaggerated? I'm still debating if I should watch them all before the Force Awakens. Thanks everyone! :)

Don't waste your time.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Spectre on December 23, 2015, 04:07:10 PM
Don't waste your time.
Why not? They are still part of the Star Wars universe and as bad as they are (honestly ROTS isn't so bad) they will give him/her a lot of exposition about what happened before the original movies and how all of this came to be.

As for TFA:

Honestly, the movie was good, but not amazing or anything close to that. Too similiar in structure and characters to ANH, it's basically a copy of it.

Kylo's motives for wanting to be evil are nonexistent, his duel with Finn and Rey was absolute clusterfuck considering they were two newbies who grabbed a lightsaber for the first time in their life, while he was an experienced sith. Bowcaster or not, the fact that he lost there was ridiculous. And what's with the magical earthquake that saved him? Rey's managing to resist his force powers is also highly improbable.

Then we have Luke, who I'm extremely dissapointed with. Luke was never the type of guy to quit so easily and exile himself. What's with the jedi's and their hiding? Everytime they fail in something they go hide.

The Death Star v3 is also annoying as f*ck. That planet destroying was too casual.


Overall though, as I said, I liked it. I don't think it's a great movie by any means, but it's a start. After the prequels I'll take what I can get here. And ffs, it's Star Wars.[/spoiler
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on December 23, 2015, 04:37:06 PM
Why not? They are still part of the Star Wars universe and as bad as they are (honestly ROTS isn't so bad) they will give him/her a lot of exposition about what happened before the original movies and how all of this came to be.

Because they're unneeded to appreciate the new movie and because I find them pretty terrible, including ROTS. Tama is better off leaving what happened before the OT to her imagination, for it's guaranteed to be better than those prequels.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Slime_Beherit on December 23, 2015, 06:40:15 PM
Because they're unneeded to appreciate the new movie and because I find them pretty terrible, including ROTS. Tama is better off leaving what happened before the OT to her imagination, for it's guaranteed to be better than those prequels.

Honestly I feel it makes them worse. Who would have thought Vader had such ridiculous back story. It really try to forget prequel Anakin and Vader  are the same person. Not to mention it literally takes away the magic from the force.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 24, 2015, 09:10:51 PM
Speaking of the prequels being a net negative to Star Wars, I appreciated their almost total irrelevancy to the new film. Snoke was just a believably evil looking guy and no stupid Sith lore or contact lenses for him or Kylo Ren, just the power of the Dark Side. If I never hear another fanboy talk about "the rule of two" like it matters again it'll be too soon.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on December 31, 2015, 02:39:20 AM
I know I’m extremely late to this party, so I won’t bother dwelling on all the things you guys have surfaced about the successes and failings of this movie.

I liked it! Right out of the gate, before we get started, you know what surprised me the most? Just how much I liked Kylo Ren as a villain. Aaz can vouch for this: I’ve been making jokes about that guy for months as a result of the overbearing marketing (buy Kylo Ren’s gloves! Buy the Kylo Ren Matchbox drag racer! The Kylo Ren flamethrower! Who the fuck is Kylo Ren and why should I care?!). But he’s the kind of character I had hoped Lucas would explore with Anakin in the prequel trilogy: A character courting the dark side, and we see that transition from apprentice to master. After the way this first movie ended though, I do have trouble forseeing his character arc. I'm not sure a "redemptive" path would be an easy sell at this point (Griff, I was also spoiled about the Han thing, months and months ago!).

I was also very impressed with Rey. Subverting the gender expectations for a female character — placing her at the center of things AND to be the most competent character (in the whole galaxy, apparently!) — was nice to see in such a blockbuster movie. But didn't it feel like she was pulling her punches a bit in the acting department? She's a little stifled in all her scenes. Maybe that's just because she's paired with Fi-"WHOOO! NOW THAT'S AN ACE PILOT!"-nn.

But all those thrills, all that excitement, it all feels a little too safe. I walked away feeling that this movie was exactly what it needed to be for the franchise's continued legacy — but not much else. In short, it wasn’t as bold as I had hoped it would be. There are indeed new characters going on new adventures, folding in the cast from the previous films — all of that feels prerequisite. But did they have to cover the exact same territory as the origin trilogy? The names here are different, but the conflict is the same as it ever was. It felt like Abrams drawing with tracing paper over experiences everyone gas already had. And that was precisely what I had feared going into this whole thing — that they wouldn’t take enough chances. This is all very frustrating to watch, because the new additions to the formula here: a stormtrooper developing a conscience, Rey rising up to strike down a more experienced opponent, Han grappling with his choices as a father; are all pretty fucking fantastic. But why are these merely small patches in an overall pattern that repeats itself?

I should say: As a father perpetually exposed to the machinations of toy store marketing campaigns, it’s difficult for me to divorce my feelings about this movie from the business realities about its conception. Because this isn’t just Star Wars: Episode VII. It is Disney’s (successful) attempt at relaunching a once-vital brand, with the potential to reawaken one of the mightiest merchandising machines in the history of cinema. That’s what it is at its core, not merely the continuation of the most beloved movie franchise in history. And because that's the structure of its origin, that informs the final result: A very calculated production that doesn't do much more than it is programmed to achieve.

A final thought. I know that Disney trashed the Star Wars Extended Universe. I wasn't that familiar with it anyway, honestly. But one of my only exposures to those series of novels was one I read when I was a teenager called "Dark Apprentice." Here's a plot summary from Wookiepedia:


Quote
But as the battle for a planet rages, an even greater danger emerges at Luke Skywalker's Jedi academy on Yavin 4. A strong but untrained student named Gantoris delves dangerously into the dark side of the Force and unleashes the spirit of the ancient dark side master Exar Kun, who instructs him in the creation of a unique, three crystal lightsaber that can be focused to extend beyond the normal length to that of a spear. The spirit of Exar Kun also tries, with disastrous consequences, to entice him toward the dark side. Although unsuccessful, this sets the stage for another of Luke's students, Kyp Durron, to face the same choice as Gantoris. Working together, they may become an enemy greater than any the New Republic has ever fought...more powerful than even a Jedi Master can face.

A few elements here are very familiar to what we saw regarding Luke in Force Awakens. Luke launches a Jedi Academy, but one of his students turns against him and the others, guided by the ghost of a sith lord. It sounds plausible to me that's what Snoke will end up being.



Kylo's motives for wanting to be evil are nonexistent,

We don't know his full story yet. But he wants to take up Vader's mantle. That was enough for me in this movie (we didn't know Vader's motivations either...)

Quote
his duel with Finn and Rey was absolute clusterfuck considering they were two newbies who grabbed a lightsaber for the first time in their life, while he was an experienced sith.

Kylo Ren is not a sith. (http://www.slashfilm.com/kylo-ren-is-not-a-sith-in-the-force-awakens/) At most he's a dark jedi apprentice.

Quote
And what's with the magical earthquake that saved him?

You mean as the planet was basically collapsing from the explosion of the giant death ray?

Quote
The Rey's managing to resist his force powers is also highly improbable.

Again, I think you're probably overestimating the extent of Kylo Ren's actual abilities.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on December 31, 2015, 04:14:20 AM
I liked it!

Glad to hear it. I've seen it a couple more times since giving my first impressions and the experience was night and day, especially the second time where I could just sit back, smile, and enjoy everything they did right. It's to the point I'm basically a full convert now. Again, I think the problem was I was looking for a continuation of The Empire Strikes Back (I couldn't help it =) instead of a modernized revival of Star Wars as a franchise, which this accomplishes pretty perfectly.

After the way this first movie ended though, I do have trouble forseeing his character arc. I'm not sure a "redemptive" path would be an easy sell at this point (Griff, I was also spoiled about the Han thing, months and months ago!).

Yeah, that was a real bitch to find out in a random production article! Anyway, I hope that sacrifice is a sign they plan to subvert expectations and continue to make Kylo Ren truly irredeemable rather than replaying the Vader/Anakin arc.

didn't it feel like she was pulling her punches a bit in the acting department? She's a little stifled in all her scenes. Maybe that's just because she's paired with Fi-"WHOOO! NOW THAT'S AN ACE PILOT!"-nn.

"DID YOU SEE THAT!!?"

I did notice that a few times with Rey, like Ridley could turn the charm on to 11 with her smile when she wanted and it was almost jarring because for the most part she played it stoic and earnest, which worked. Bonus points for her channeling Hamil's tempted Luke face from RotJ when she was in the process of besting Kylo Ren.


But all those thrills, all that excitement, it all feels a little too safe. I walked away feeling that this movie was exactly what it needed to be for the franchise's continued legacy — but not much else. In short, it wasn’t as bold as I had hoped it would be. There are indeed new characters going on new adventures, folding in the cast from the previous films — all of that feels prerequisite. But did they have to cover the exact same territory as the origin trilogy? The names here are different, but the conflict is the same as it ever was. It felt like Abrams drawing with tracing paper over experiences everyone gas already had. And that was precisely what I had feared going into this whole thing — that they wouldn’t take enough chances. This is all very frustrating to watch, because the new additions to the formula here: a stormtrooper developing a conscience, Rey rising up to strike down a more experienced opponent, Han grappling with his choices as a father; are all pretty fucking fantastic. But why are these merely small patches in an overall pattern that repeats itself?

I think like the first Avengers movie it'll take some time to get past expectations, truly consider the degree of difficulty, and realize the full success of the project. Knowing that they essentially "meant to do that" with the remake of ANH and the Death Star helps me appreciate the ambition of that, rather than just seeing it as a retread as far as the continuing cinematic story of Star Wars goes. I think it depends on how one defines Star Wars and themselves as a fan. I'd wager Abrams, as a filmmaker, is a bigger fan of the original Star Wars (1977) and it's impact on movies than the franchise and it's story overall, thus why essentially remaking the original to relaunch the franchise would be a more gratifying challenge to him than trying to continue from Jedi or live up to Empire from a pure storytelling perspective (I also don't think that's his strength).

I should say: As a father perpetually exposed to the machinations of toy store marketing campaigns, it’s difficult for me to divorce my feelings about this movie from the business realities about its conception. Because this isn’t just Star Wars: Episode VII. It is Disney’s (successful) attempt at relaunching a once-vital brand, with the potential to reawaken one of the mightiest merchandising machines in the history of cinema. That’s what it is at its core, not merely the continuation of the most beloved movie franchise in history. And because that's the structure of its origin, that informs the final result: A very calculated production that doesn't do much more than it is programmed to achieve.

I think that's where my expectations led me into trouble the first time watching. I was looking at it thinking this is the last chance for them to make something better than that, but that was rather naive since there was so much riding on this it had to be handled "perfectly" from the start. Even the way they downplayed it as "Episode VII" and opted to market it more standalone with that focus-grouped non-title, "The Force Awakens" looks so obvious in hindsight. Of course, bringing on Rian Johnson to write and direct the next one is actually a rather curious decision in that regard. Maybe that's an indication that since they played it smart and safe with this one, and won big, they're willing to take more risks with the next...? I'd much rather they try to copy Empire's model simply by making the second one the best rather than by trying to literally make The First Order Strikes Back. Johnson at least has a chance at that (and Colin Trevorrow can make the mediocre third one =).


A final thought. I know that Disney trashed the Star Wars Extended Universe. I wasn't that familiar with it anyway, honestly. But one of my only exposures to those series of novels was one I read when I was a teenager called "Dark Apprentice."

A few elements here are very familiar to what we saw regarding Luke in Force Awakens. Luke launches a Jedi Academy, but one of his students turns against him and the others, guided by the ghost of a sith lord. It sounds plausible to me that's what Snoke will end up being.

What I find most interesting is how much of the EU essentially ended up back in canon in this film, I mean we joked that they'd rip it off or would logically have to cover the same territory, but check it out: Luke's aforementioned failed new Jedi order, Ben Solo/Jacen Solo, Suncrusher/Starkiller, Kylo Ren/Darth Revan (appearance), and more. I'm surprised there wasn't a "Grand Admiral Prawn" on Starkiller base because at this rate Rey's mother will turn out to be "Jara Made." Anyway, for anybody that was upset about the EU being scuttled, it's pretty much alive and well and was remade in this film as much as ANH.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Aazealh on January 01, 2016, 01:14:38 PM
I don't know if you guys have seen this yet, but it was kind of sad to watch:



The full, hour-long interview: http://www.charlierose.com/watch/60665244 (http://www.charlierose.com/watch/60665244)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Oburi on January 01, 2016, 05:02:16 PM
I don't know if you guys have seen this yet, but it was kind of sad to watch:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/O8hQVlRgFlU?rel=0&showinfo=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


The full, hour-long interview: http://www.charlierose.com/watch/60665244 (http://www.charlierose.com/watch/60665244)



"Yea bla bla bla WHITE SLAVERS bla bla bla"

wait, what was that?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on January 02, 2016, 07:42:46 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-lucas-apologizes-clarifies-comments-about-new-star-wars/

The best part is he's apologizing for his insensitivity to Disney, not, ya know, slavery. :ganishka:

He definitely seems to have seller's remorse. I think it goes to the core of his rift with the fans and why even he didn't see the potential of this when Disney clearly did. Of course, he couldn't have matched Disney's marketing capabilities and synergy even if he tried, but he certainly could have hired the same people to make Star Wars movies at his discretion. Hell, that's what he already was doing in the 80's with Empire and Jedi and even into the 90's with the EU (Thrawn Trilogy, Shadows of the Empire, Lucasarts, etc). Things were all good until the late 90's too, Disney is just following his own playbook but has put production into overdrive with a clear emphasis to cater (pander) to fans. Anyway, I think he had long realized he fucked up at this point and that 4 billion is nothing compared to what he's given Disney (and what they stand to make on this), and that's on top of losing his authority and being told to fuck off. He should have put in a stipulation that, whatever else they did with the property, they had to follow his outline for the sequel trilogy. He probably figured he didn't need to because of course they would want to stick to his great ideas (and it certainly seemed that way at first, and was likely the impression he got before he signed). You played yourself, George.

Btw, he's not wrong in what he says about Disney essentially making a retro fan film homage. I'd be very curious to read those outlines and see how they differ from the Disney product (which is why it's unlikely to happen). I'm actually surprised he didn't get a story credit considering how vague the whole passing the torch to the next generation thing is and how liberally the WGA sometimes demands those credits be doled out (though Lucas may not be a member). In any case, how different and better/worse can they be? However more authentic and pure his storytelling intentions, his recent history makes it hard to believe we're missing anything but another shameful letdown. "Luke Skywalker passes the force on to his son Duke Skywalker so he can defeat Darth Plagueass and the SITHHHHH once and for all! Plus a bunch of awful CGI-based comic relief/merchandising ensues and your childhood withers and dies some more."
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Joe Chip on January 04, 2016, 07:59:38 PM
I watched it a few days ago, it came out at 24th of December in my country (no idea why). I loved every minute of it,  but by the end i was very skeptical.
Some things bothered the hell out of me, you guys mentioned it before but at times i felt that the writing was really sloppy.
Ok now we don't have a death star, we have a bigger death star (granted it destroyed multiple planets at once but they could have thought of something else)
R2-D2 waking up conveniently towards the end and revealing the whole map bothered the hell out of me.
The last part was the earthquake, Rey was standing above Kylo then seconds later there was an ridge seperating them. Maybe they removed some seconds for the final cut, dunno seemed kinda dumb.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on January 05, 2016, 01:46:03 AM
The New Yorker has weighed in: http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-george-awakens

Quote
“The Force Awakens” makes it once again possible to think about George Lucas as a man of imagination, of conviction, and (minus Jar Jar Binks) of taste—as a brilliant appropriator rather than an average one. It took a forgery to get him called an artist.

Well uh. Certainly not the reaction I expected!
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Skeleton on January 05, 2016, 02:48:14 AM
The New Yorker has weighed in: http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-george-awakens

Quote from: From the article
Bryan Curtis is a former staff writer at Grantland.

I just can't see why ESPN dropped Grantland. :troll:

Seriously though, I haven't seen the new movie so I'm not really qualified to comment on this, but while I was reading that article my eyes rolled so far back into my head I was afraid I was having a seizure. I'm surprised Curtis was able to write that article with his head so far up George Lucas' ass.

I do agree though that having a creative idea/movie that risks being bad is preferable to a safe, perfectly average movie. And ending the trilogy that started with Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back with a teddy bear dance party is highly creative so. . . Great point, Curtis?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on January 05, 2016, 04:24:31 AM
Yes it was quite amusing  :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Griffith on January 05, 2016, 07:16:42 AM
Beyond some BOLD declarations, mainly about Abrams and the new movie, I actually found the article much more nuanced overall than the money quote at the end. Some of that stuff rang true, and since it's acknowledging the objective awfulness of the prequels, I don't see the problem with the author also giving George Lucas credit for... ya know, creating Star Wars (that's a big deal if you like Star Wars =). So, considering the all-too-common reaction perhaps this is most insightful part:

Quote
After Lucas directed the “Star Wars” prequels, the last of which came out in 2005, he found himself in a different critical vice. The new generation didn’t care about the ideals of the sixties. They cared about the ideals of the late seventies and eighties—the blockbuster era. For them Lucas had desecrated a second sacred cultural moment: one that promised not radical change but comfort—the warmth of Tatooine’s twin suns. These people also had Web browsers. Lucas was blasted by everyone from smart-asses in Ain’t It Cool News’ comments section to Red Letter Media’s Mr. Plinkett, who showed, excruciatingly and shot by shot, how Lucas had screwed up.

I still don't really understand how one hates Lucas for "destroying" Star Wars without appreciating him in equal measure for creating it and spearheading or bankrolling everything we loved about Lucasfilm/Lucasarts until 1997 (pretty damn good 20 year run there). It's especially strange to blame him for the former without crediting him for the latter (which many do these days). That sort of reaction to Lucas now says more about us than him at this point (though it speaks to how insufferably he handled everything). It's not to the same degree because there's no equivalent artistic malpractice at issue, but it reminds me of the "fans" that insult Miura for his perceived scheduling trespasses (or going "too light"), or those fans that think old George R.R. Martin owes them the rest of his life because they bought some fantasy books he wrote decades ago, or really any fanbase that thinks a creator owes them anything other than to presumably share their craft if one supposedly appreciates it so much. George Lucas did a pretty good job flushing his Star Wars legacy down the toilet all by himself, but now that he can't really do that anymore we have the luxury of just remembering fondly why we cared so much about him doing that in the first place and appreciate that he's ultimately responsible for that as well. I think that's better all around than holding an eternal grudge for some bad CGI and hardheadedness.

And beware, Ridley Scott; you're sailing into some hazardous waters. :daiba:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Joe Chip on January 05, 2016, 09:45:37 PM
I would recommend watching episodes 1 and 2, then watching all of the Clone Wars series, then episode 3.
Ok that's it, you've convinced me. I am going to start watching the Clone Wars. Should i start from the beginning ? I remember you saying that season 1 isn't that good compared to the others. I don't really mind skipping one or two seasons.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Walter on January 06, 2016, 12:00:26 AM
Why should anyone watch Star Wars: Episode 1?
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Johnstantine on January 06, 2016, 04:44:39 PM
Ok that's it, you've convinced me. I am going to start watching the Clone Wars. Should i start from the beginning ? I remember you saying that season 1 isn't that good compared to the others. I don't really mind skipping one or two seasons.

Watch them all, including the movie. There is tons of payoff down the line.

Why should anyone watch Star Wars: Episode 1?

It isn't nearly as bad if you've watched Clone Wars. In fact, and as I've said tons of other times, the prequels are worlds better after having viewed the series.

Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Master Finn on January 11, 2016, 11:15:35 AM
I saw the Force Awakens with my family, first with just my brother on the day it came out then again with my family a week later.  It was a phenomenal experience both of the times I saw them.  I've seen all the star wars movies, grew up watching them so seeing it again in theaters after 10 years was truly incredible.  I surprisingly didn't have much trouble with the crowd, one guy tried to get me to move out of my seat and I kindly let him know that was never going to happen.  Other than that, everyone behaved very well during the movie and there weren't too many fanboys yelling at every new scene.  But yeah, the movie itself was great I had a lot of fun watching it and I was so engaged with these new characters.  I feel bad for the people who went in to make comparisons to the original trilogy instead of going in to enjoy the film, they truly spoiled their own experience.  Most complaints with this new movie I find are either nit picky or just not real problems imo.  I don't mind criticism as the movie certainly wasn't flawless, but a lot of the complaints come off as nitpicky.  It had it's problems, however I don't think there are as many problems as naysayers proclaim them to be.  I think this is the third best star wars film to date.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: JMP on January 17, 2016, 05:21:20 AM
Just saw it last weekend and again this past week. I'm not sure if spoiler tags are even necessary at this point since I'm probably one of the last people to see it, but I'll do it anyway just in case.

I thought the characters were engaging, especially Finn, who I found the most relatable. As far as why Finn revolted my question is why haven't more storm troopers done the same already? They seem to be living in such a restrictive system where people are being treated like they're machines. No way that's sustainable. Even though the First Order's been brain washing them from a young age, some are bound to rebell. I think it would be cool if in the next movies Finn's rebellion and escape has inspired at least a few other storm troopers, fermenting aid of the fall of the First Order from within.

I thought the acting was very good and I liked the casting choices. Daisy Ridley came off as a bit wooden to me at times, but maybe that was supposed to be grit or awkwardness or a mix of both, a result of Rey's character having to tough it out on her own for such a long time. I think Ridley resembles Natalie Portman as Padme, which I thought was neat since Rey is most likely her granddaughter. I couldn't disagree more with the opinion that the actor who played Kylo Ren is unattractive. I think Adam Driver is pretty cute and don't even get me started on that gorgeous hair which resists all crushing by the helmet.  :ganishka: General Hux looks like a particularly obnoxious micro-manager I once had the misfortune to work with, which is how Hux's character comes off to me anyway. It made Hux extra irritating to me. :mozgus:

There were some good funny moments. I think my favorite was after Rey escaped from Kylo Ren and he sees that she's gone and goes into a temper tantrum. The two storm troopers are walking down the hall toward where he's throwing his fit and rampaging with his light saber and they just turn back around and head the other way, like “Oh hell no!”. :magni: I like it when a movie doesn't try to take itself too seriously.

I know the idea is that Rey's naturally strong ability with the force allows her to utilize it's power better as a newbie than would be normal, but it seemed a bit much at times. It didn't bother me overly, though, and I'm sure the subsequent movie will feature her training with Luke to hone her talents into something that will be really badass.


Anyway, I thought it was an enjoyable movie and overall I really liked it! :guts: I'm looking forward to seeing what will happen in the next installment.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: IncantatioN on February 07, 2016, 10:43:26 AM
The one "OH SHIT!!" excited moment in my head I remember was when Rama and Mad Dog were in a scene, had no idea they were part of it. 

A month's passed since I first watched it and tempted to go see it one more time in a less anxious or excited-to-see-a-new-Star-Wars movies kinda mindset.
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: JMP on April 04, 2016, 08:28:10 PM
Looking forward to this coming out on Blu-ray/dvd tomorrow!  :ubik:
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/star-wars-force-awakens-highlights-dvd-extras/story?id=38138691 (http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/star-wars-force-awakens-highlights-dvd-extras/story?id=38138691)

Here's info on some of the different exclusives being offered.
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/147054/20160404/which-retailer-exclusive-version-of-star-wars-the-force-awakens-on-blu-ray-is-best.htm (http://www.techtimes.com/articles/147054/20160404/which-retailer-exclusive-version-of-star-wars-the-force-awakens-on-blu-ray-is-best.htm)
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Skeleton on April 06, 2016, 03:52:42 AM
I literally just finished watching The Force Awakens for the first time so this is more of a gut reaction than anything else:  I absolutely loved it.  I think it falls right in line with the original trilogy and is a worthy successor to it. 

I'll write more about it tomorrow when I have more time so gird your loins, SK.net!  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Post by: Skeleton on April 07, 2016, 04:32:52 AM
I hope your loins are properly girded, SK.net.  :carcus:

I'll start with the one thing I wish they had done better:  I wish they had better explained the First Order-Resistance-New Republic political situation in the opening crawl.  While there's enough information throughout the movie to form a general idea of what's going on, I felt like it would've been nice to know, within the movie, about things like the fact that the Resistance from the original trilogy didn't reconquer all the Empire-held systems or that the old Resistance became the New Republic or that there was in-fighting within the systems that the former Empire still controlled or that the Republic and former Empire-held systems were in a cold war-type situation where the Republic refuses to get into a direct confrontation with the Imperial systems but secretly supplies/supports the Resistance.  Okay, maybe not all that.  I don't need to know about trade negotiations.  But I do feel like they could've described the situation better in that opening crawl like they did in the original trilogy.

Now onto the things I enjoyed.

I enjoyed the fact that the movie goes out of its way to show the characters learning/evolving.  Rey doesn't just immediately figure out how to fly a starship.  She mentions she's flown some before, and then we're shown her beating the shit out of the Falcon as she tries to figure out how to fly the thing.  There's a nice, realistic process there.  She doesn't just jump into the pilot seat and away she goes like most other movies would have her do.

It seems like they did that with every aspect of the young/new characters (specifically Rey, Finn, and Ren), as far as their technical abilities go.  For example, Rey's expertise at fixing/repairing/operating ships is explained by the fact she has spent her entire life crawling inside of Imperial and Resistance ships and walkers, learning the ins and outs of all of them: where everything goes and why, what something does, what has the most value from a technological standpoint, etc.  And what's great is they even add a bit more realism to that by including her mistake on Han's ship.  What happens when she tries to mess with Han's ship, one she would've never encountered on Jakku?  She has the technical knowledge to figure out what needs to be done to the ship to get the results she wants, but she's not familiar with that type of ship so she accidentally releases those creatures.

Not only does that add realism to the characters, but I really felt like I was watching the new, young generation as they started "growing up."  There was a nice contrast in the film between the old generation who were confident and assured and set in their ways (Han, Chewie, Leia, and the Resistance) versus the bumbling kids who were banging into walls as they were trying to figure things out for the first time  (Rey, Finn, and Ren).  I liked that.  It gave me the warm and fuzzies and has me looking forward to seeing them grow into their own over the course of the next two films.

I also liked the story.  I thought they took it in a direction that seemed like it flowed naturally from the end of the original trilogy.  It didn't enrich the world of Star Wars much, but I don't think it hurt the original trilogy's world at all like the prequels did.  (The badass Galactic Empire only lasted ~20 years before it fell?! Fuck you, Lucas!*)

Anyway, I'm running out of time so I'll wrap this up by saying I think the perfect word to describe The Force Awakens is solid.  As I was watching the film it actually reminded me of the first Pirates of the Caribbean film.  Both films absolutely nailed the entertainment factor and were borderline good/great.  They won't ever be considered the greatest films of all time, but they didn't make any mistakes either.  They're both just solid, good films that are super entertaining.  And I enjoyed them both immensely. 

Would I like to see the next two films swing for the fences?  Sure.  But if they end up going the same route as The Force Awakens I won't be upset either.

*I have actually had a change of heart when it comes to Lucas.  But that's a story for another time.