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Berserk => Speculation Nation => Topic started by: ThePhoenixOfDarkness on December 22, 2017, 10:00:55 AM

Title: Guts vs Griffith theory
Post by: ThePhoenixOfDarkness on December 22, 2017, 10:00:55 AM
Hello,I'm new to the forum but I wanted to share my theory with you.

I believe Guts will have to give up his violent emotions in order to stand a chance against Griffith.

We know that the beast of darkness came from his violent negative emotions.We also know that the Godhand exists everywhere where a large amount of negative emotions are concentrated.I believe the beast of darkness is some kind of manifestation of the Godhand's manipulation.We saw the beast forcing Guts to kill Casca.I believe it was the Godhand's doing because they know Guts will eventually stand a chance against them.If Guts wouldn't have been able to resist the beast,Casca would have died and Guts would have no other choice but to go after Griffith and die in the process.

Furtermore,Skull knight stated that to rival Griffith he will have to exist outside the reason of the world.He also said by being branded Guts made half a step towards existing outside reason.So I belive the other half of the step would be to give up his rage so the Godhand will have no control over him.

And also if we look at the first duel between Guts and Griffith we see that Guts was angry and Griffith was calm.At the second duel Griffith was the one losing his calm and Guts stayed level-headed.It was the calm side who won both times.

I don't have many proofs for this but I believe that Griffith's battle power is becoming more powerful the more darkness his opponent bears.We see him easily see him killing a bunch of apostles easily in the Eclipse and while fighting Ganishka he doesn't seem to be trying harder.Also Ganishka had immense amount of darkness in him after his second reincarnation.

If these two theories will prove to be true the I think Guts will almost be ready to face Griffith.He would also need the mages of Elfhelm.

I would like to hear your opinions and correct me if I'm wrong somewhere.

 
Title: Re: Guts vs Griffith theory
Post by: Cyrus Jong on December 22, 2017, 11:47:52 AM
If the God Hand consider Guts a credible threat, they wouldn't need to resort to the convoluted and indirect mind games you're suggesting they're doing. They'd just kill him and be done with it. And even if they didn't have the power to just reduce him to a smear of blood with a wave of their hand, which they can totally do, they'd certainly make a far more concentrated effort to kill him than they've demonstrated so far. All their behavior has suggested the opposite: he's not a danger to them, he's an amusing novelty at most. Guts winds up in the middle of the Count's Occultation Ceremony, and they laugh off the idea that he poses any kind of threat to them. Griffith meets Guts at the Hill of Swords and simply leaves after letting Guts and Zodd duke it out for a bit. Slan appears in Qliphoth to play with Guts, and is orgasmically delighted when he strikes her down.

Also, merely letting go of his rage is hardly going to put Guts "outside the reason of the world," and free him of the God Hand's influence. Most of the people in Griffith's domain don't have a fraction of Guts' rage, or the negative emotions swirling in him, but they're still incredibly susceptible to Griffith's influence. We've seen this with Sonia, the Pontiff, and Mule; none of them are particularly dark characters fueled by inner anger. But in all their cases, merely seeing Griffith was enough to completely enthrall them.
Title: Re: Guts vs Griffith theory
Post by: ThePhoenixOfDarkness on December 22, 2017, 12:11:20 PM
When the Godhand offered the count a second chance I don't think they considered the possibility that Guts would eventually let go of his rage.So It just didn't matter to them that Guts lives or dies.

On the hill of swords Griffith didn't leave because he got bored or anything.It was because the demon child made him want to leave because of it's feeling for it's parents.

Slan would have definitely killed Guts in Qlipoth if it weren't for skull knight.It's because of him that Guts had a chance to stab Slan.

And about letting go of his anger I meant really letting go of everything.I'm sure Sonia,Mule, the pontiff and other characters as well still bear some sadness and anger in their hearts.I'm not talking about anger toward Griffith but anger towards anything.

Title: Re: Guts vs Griffith theory
Post by: Menosgade on December 22, 2017, 12:13:29 PM
Hello Phoenix, welcome to the band!

I believe the beast of darkness is some kind of manifestation of the Godhand's manipulation.We saw the beast forcing Guts to kill Casca.I believe it was the Godhand's doing because they know Guts will eventually stand a chance against them.If Guts wouldn't have been able to resist the beast,Casca would have died and Guts would have no other choice but to go after Griffith and die in the process.

I'm no authority on Berserk lore, sometimes I get confused, but I fundamentally disagree with these statements.

Firstly, there is no point in GH making him subconsciously instable rather than just kill him. They had plenty of opportunity for this. Quite a few times Guts has been in the presence of Femto / GH. For them, it'd be no effort to kill Guts. You said it yourself. Femto destroyed Ganishka without a sweat drop.

This leads me to other point, Guts standing a chance on them. Even if he was a threat, they couldn't know. Guts was supposed to die as a sacrifice. He didn't. From what we can imagine, this probably wasn't supposed to happen. He's a fish swimming against the stream. Yet, that doesn't mean he's a threat. Until now, everything is going as planned. Griffith is to be crowned king, Falconia is gathering hoards of submissive people. He didn't interfere this in any form.

However, I do agree with you about Guts' attitude. He already made quite some progress. Yet, the beast still lurks, waiting to take over.
Title: Re: Guts vs Griffith theory
Post by: Cyrus Jong on December 22, 2017, 01:42:06 PM
When the Godhand offered the count a second chance I don't think they considered the possibility that Guts would eventually let go of his rage.So It just didn't matter to them that Guts lives or dies.

If they think there's no chance that Guts will ever let go of his rage, why even try to enflame it in the first place?

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On the hill of swords Griffith didn't leave because he got bored or anything.It was because the demon child made him want to leave because of it's feeling for it's parents.

Never said it was because he was bored. Just said that he left and actively called off the fight between Guts and Zodd, which goes against the whole idea that he ever wanted Guts dead. Hell, before that, he didn't even try to kill Guts. He just stood by and watched. The whole purpose behind that meeting was for Griffith to gauge whether or not Guts could sway his heart as he did in the past, and departed once he got his answer. And while the child can influence him in some small ways, it's a stretch to say it can force him to go against his fundamental desires. The most it could do was likely what we saw: rescue Casca in a brief moment of intense distress. And even if the child made Griffith so incapable of getting rid of Guts so directly, there's nothing stopping him from just sending some Apostles out to mount Guts' head on a spike. I would expect him at the very least to try something, rather than completely ignore Guts otherwise. Because if he really felt Guts posed a threat to him, I would imagine someone as coldly pragmatic as Griffith (aka the guy who blackmailed an aristocrat he got suspicious of after seeing him give off one frightened expression) would do something about him.

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Slan would have definitely killed Guts in Qlipoth if it weren't for skull knight.It's because of him that Guts had a chance to stab Slan.

For someone who, by your arguments, seriously wants Guts dead because he poses a threat to her, she wasn't trying very hard. She tears his armor off, lets him slump around limply, mocks him, and dares him to defy her. Hell, she outright says she came to feel his rage and anguish. If she wanted him, dead, she made no sign of it. She also offhandedly mentions how she doesn't know or care what the rest of the God Hand were doing, which should tell you how disinterested they are in this Black Swordsman's business, in general and in comparison to her. And when Guts finally was able to wound her, all Slan did was urge him to strike her even harder, and was absolutely delighted when he impaled her. She came for pleasure and she left completely satisfied. That's not the reaction I would expect from someone who's trying to eliminate an enemy.

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And about letting go of his anger I meant really letting go of everything.I'm sure Sonia,Mule, the pontiff and other characters as well still bear some sadness and anger in their hearts.I'm not talking about anger toward Griffith but anger towards anything.

As I said before, they don't possess a fraction of the negativity that Guts has. Or that all Apostles have. Or that even Ganishka had when he turned into a swollen mountain of evil power. And yet they all fell like dominoes before Griffith. And even if Guts lets go of every bad thought in his head (which is impossible), so what? These are beings that are nearly impenetrable and can instantly kill you with a flick of their wrist. A spider might be scarier than an ant, but it takes just as much effort to kill.

And besides, we all know Rickert was deeply saddened and hurt by what happened to the Hawks, and probably even more than a little angry at Griffith for what he did to them. Yet he was still able to strike him.