Episodes 365 & 366

I also want to also state the continuation has helped me a lot with processing the loss of Muira and I don’t know how to explain, but simply I already feel so much better about all things Berserk.
I totally agree with this. It has been impossible for me to accept Miura's passing. This continuation is slowly helping me grieve and let go bit by bit.
I'm happy for you guys, but I'm unfortunately experiencing the reverse.

For me the continuation only threw into higher relief how much we lost with Miura's passing, which has caused me to revert from acceptance to bitterness about what happened.

Hope this changes soon and I'm definitely grateful we will at least get to know what he had planned for the rest. I wish the team all the best in their endeavors.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I also want to also state the continuation has helped me a lot with processing the loss of Muira and I don’t know how to explain, but simply I already feel so much better about all things Berserk.
That's strange. These episodes made me feel what was lost even more acutely. Or at least reignited my feelings of emptiness now that he's gone. Because you can clearly see that what made Berserk special was Miura's touch. "What would Berserk be without Miura?" is no longer rhetorical: We can see it on each page.
 
Well, I'm certainly glad to see many of you also expressing confusion over the "Guts swinging his sword at Griffith" scenes, as I really didn't get what was going on there.
For me they should just remove that page... Without it reads better
 
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Death May Die

"That day you left, that's when I knew."
I’m happy to have a active Berserk project and that it includes Muira’s studio, and his best friend. I know it’s never going to be what it could had been with the definitive touch of Muira. I simply don’t expect that but personally I didn’t feel a bottomless loss of talent reading the new pages. I precieved these pages as what they were, that Miura’s team had made these, and these are how they are carrying Berserk on in Miura’s honor. This is their tribute to him. Prehaps that’s what I’m finding that makes me feel better overall. That they are trying to do something with Berserk, that it’s these particular people involved. The backstory of how this all came together makes me feel better. I’m perceiving it all as a tribute. People close to Miura working on a Berserk project makes me feel better. The work itself, I’m finding I’m the most passive about. It won’t ever be as good as Miura. Whether Mori would had done a interview, or maybe a chronicle novel, I would be all about it. I’m sure those too would had really lifted me up from where I was because losing Miura was so damn devastating to me.

In my own world, in my own way, Berserk was a living thing in my life. Berserk passed away with Miura, and this is the tribute to him. I can’t help but feel happy to see it. Good or bad.
 
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Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
That's strange. These episodes made me feel what was lost even more acutely. Or at least reignited my feelings of emptiness now that he's gone. Because you can clearly see that what made Berserk special was Miura's touch. "What would Berserk be without Miura?" is no longer rhetorical: We can see it on each page.

I think it's all within a normal range of responses depending on how one views, interacts with and experience(d)s Berserk; there's no right and wrong way. I don't think anyone has to love or hate this to react to it the properly, and it's probably just going to feel weird for a while, if not forever. Even yours is like a 10,000x more positive reaction to "Berserk without Miura" than I think under any other circumstances. I mean, the very notion is just antithetical, right? It's an oxymoron, and yet... The only thing that even makes this worth checking out is the idea they're carrying out his will.

BTW, on the pod you used the word "treacherous" to describe the hazard and difficulty of this endeavor, which is so perfect since it also implies the constant risk of betraying that mission! :stop:

For me they should just remove that page... Without it reads better

Yeah, I thought of this during the pod, if you just edited down what was already here it could be better, but they might not have felt comfortable communicating it that way, and it seems like they couldn't flawlessly execute it according to their intentions period, at least not how we're accustomed to.
 
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For me the continuation only threw into higher relief how much we lost with Miura's passing, which has caused me to revert from acceptance to bitterness about what happened.
The continuation of course reminds me of his great talent and the lack of it we have now. However getting berserk back and atleast having access to some of his ideas is comforting me in a strange way. So hopefully by the end I will have made peace with everything.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
The continuation of course reminds me of his great talent and the lack of it we have now. However getting berserk back and atleast having access to some of his ideas is comforting me in a strange way. So hopefully by the end I will have made peace with everything.

That's another important facet to this, there's a preservation element, and Miura's ideas were certainly good enough to be saved and live on their own. As for that also being expressed in manga, well, that was his preferred medium, so what better form than the one he loved and elevated (we know he wasn't as much a fan of artbooks or revealing interviews =)? Also, presumably he wasn't always satisfied with how his own episodes turned out compared to the Berserk that was in his head, thus, the refinements in certain volumes and the overall insane increase in detail as the years went on. So, while it's fair to look at these episodes and think of what could have been or whether or not the new team could, or should, have done more, remember they could have done so much less, or nothing, and that wouldn't have necessarily been a great result for Berserk either. As it is, if we want to remain purists we can just stop at volume 41 on our shelves, but I have a feeling most Berserk and Miura fans will at least want the gist of these remaining episodes, volumes and plot points.
 
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That's another important facet to this, there's a preservation element, and Miura's ideas were certainly good enough to be saved and live on their own.

This is the most crucial aspect to me when it comes to staying positive about the continuation. Miura's spirit or atleast remnants of him will be scattered in the episodes and we will be able to feel him atleast for a little bit.

For example there were certain storytelling moments that felt like Miura to me atleast. The spiritual creatures reacting to Griffiths presence on the island felt like something Miura would have done or zodd coming out of the world tree branch to dive on guts.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
There's been much discussion around "What Now?" between Guts and Griffith, and now Guts and Zodd. That makes sense, because the stage has been set up very similarly to how things were back on the Hill of Swords. As a result, you can almost hear the next note before it's played. But there's one BIG thing that's different, and it hasn't been played yet: Casca.

What excites me more than anything in the next few episodes is imagining the possibilities of a post-Eclipse Casca no longer being a bystander in this conflict, but playing an active role, and beginning to change the established dynamic between Guts, Griffith, and Casca in a way that lifts the veil a bit for where the series is headed.

Guts had his face-to-face moment with Griffith on the Hill of Swords, but this is Casca's first opportunity to face him. And of course, she basically passed out as soon as she saw him. Her mind is still assembling events. The most traumatic memories are buried, only starting to come out piece by piece. So she doesn't even know the full experience of the Eclipse yet. She just knows that it's a ... thorny topic.

But I can imagine her squinting through the pain and the trauma, and screaming at Griffith. And her cries of anguish stir the boy to act, like on the Hill of Swords. Perhaps that's what shuts things down for Griffith here, causing them to pull back.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
What excites me more than anything in the next few episodes is imagining the possibilities of a post-Eclipse Casca no longer being a bystander in this conflict, but playing an active role, and beginning to change the established dynamic between Guts, Griffith, and Casca in a way that lifts the veil a bit for where the series is headed.

That would be nice indeed, and if I may add something, I feel that this situation would be the perfect opportunity for Guts to have a wake-up call regarding the armor, especially in a way that would echo Gaiseric's death (and that of his lover). If we go hog-wild on speculation, it could even go so far as the boy compelling Griffith to stop him. I'll say though, that does feel a little too close to the Hill of Swords for my taste.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
That would be nice indeed, and if I may add something, I feel that this situation would be the perfect opportunity for Guts to have a wake-up call regarding the armor, especially in a way that would echo Gaiseric's death (and that of his lover). If we go hog-wild on speculation, it could even go so far as the boy compelling Griffith to stop him. I'll say though, that does feel a little too close to the Hill of Swords for my taste.
It's true! I'm guilty myself of falling right into the groove made by the Hill of Swords. But I do think the armor + Casca make this fundamentally different. And I think Miura would have incorporated both of those new elements, somehow.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Do you guys belive that Griffith was moving or that It was Always kind of in the same spot?

These episodes clearly show him not moving. If he were dodging faster than the eye can see, it would have been depicted differently.
 
There's just that one confusing scene at the beginning of 366 where Guts swings at him and then Griffith is just behind him in the next panel. Did Guts go through him? Doesn't seem like it. Did Griffith move? Also doesn't seem like it. Did Griffith's powers make it so Guts somehow got turned around and missed even though he seemingly hit Griffith? Actually, IS that what's happening? We keep thinking the sword is going through Griffith, but perhaps we're just seeing what Guts thinks should happen only for the result to be different. He thinks he slashed Griffith, but he missed. He thinks he hit him right through the head, but he actually missed again, only plucking off one hair. I have no idea. That whole sequence is poorly conveyed.
 
Did Griffith's powers make it so Guts somehow got turned around and missed even though he seemingly hit Griffith? Actually, IS that what's happening? We keep thinking the sword is going through Griffith, but perhaps we're just seeing what Guts thinks should happen only for the result to be different.
Glad I'm not the only one that was confused with this panel; I really was/am at a loss for how Griffith is suddenly behind Guts in that sequence.
Considering that the panel immediately after the one depicting the single strand of hair being cut is one depicting Guts having issues with his vision once again (similar to how it was shown in Ep. 364), you bring up a very interesting thought that he's still struggling to perform in combat without having to rely on the Berserker armor, and this sequence is giving us some insight as to how he's perceiving this encounter. If this indeed is the intent, I agree that the sequence isn't conveyed that great.
 
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Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
This being reminiscent of the Hill of Swords is an appropriate bookend to the beginning of this whole journey since it was inspired by that encounter. I think the biggest difference though, aside from the armor and Casca having her mind back (she's already been immediately incapacitated, of course =), is the presence of Skull Knight, Ged, an island full of magic users and beings, and most prominently of course, Danan. Like Aaz said, if all of them can't make a difference, it'll seem like nothing will. The potential possibilities seem endless, which is why the prospect of another Guts vs. Zodd match somehow seems like a relatively underwhelming diversion.

As for that though, it has its base appeal of course: Guts using the armor against Zodd would be a thrill, especially if we saw the old black lion on the defensive like Grunbeld. I think the only time we've seen him anything like that was in their last fight when Guts broke his sword. Otherwise, he's cool as a cucumber even when Guts or Skully tags him. Since they're not wasting time with the human vs humanoid fight, and Guts still hasn't been a match for Zodd transformed, it would make sense for the armor to be the next step (how cool would it be to see Zodd forced to change tactics, using speed and agility because he can no longer overwhelm Guts with power?). It is odd Guys would transform for Zodd if not Griffith, but of course the escalation is cumulative here, and if Guts really loses it without the talisman it could result in the wakeup call Aaz was talking about. I don't want to squee like a nerd, but what if Skull Knight had to intervene!? "Yield before you lose more than pride old enemy, the boy is my charge!" :SK:

Oh yeah, and Femto is still there! Plus, the Falcons potentially on the way... Yeah, this is really going to need more episodes in the next arc. We really don't need to change the gears and start anything new! Maybe end neo-Berserk now while everyone's already together? :guts:
 
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Dark Emperor

Dweller of the Lotus Moon
This being reminiscent of the Hill of Swords is an appropriate bookend to the beginning of this whole journey since it was inspired by that encounter. I think the biggest difference though, aside from the armor and Casca having her mind back (she's already been immediately incapacitated, of course =), is the presence of Skull Knight, Ged, an island full of magic users and beings, and most prominently of course, Danan. Like Aaz said, if all of them can't make a difference, it'll seem like nothing will. The potential possibilities seem endless, which is why the prospect of another Guts vs. Zodd match somehow seems like a relatively underwhelming diversion.

As for that though, it has its base appeal of course: Guts using the armor against Zodd would be a thrill, especially if we saw the old black lion on the defensive like Grunbeld. I think the only time we've seen him anything like that was in their last fight when Guts broke his sword. Otherwise, he's cool as a cucumber even when Guts or Skully tags him. Since they're not wasting time with the human vs humanoid fight, and Guts still hasn't been a match for Zodd transformed, it would make sense for the armor to be the next step (how cool would it be to see Zodd forced to change tactics, using speed and agility because he can no longer overwhelm Guts with power?). It is odd Guys would transform for Zodd if not Griffith, but of course the escalation is cumulative here, and if Guts really loses it without the talisman it could result in the wakeup call Aaz was talking about. I don't want to squee like a nerd, but what if Skull Knight had to intervene!? "Yield before you lose more than pride old enemy, the boy is my charge!" :SK:

Oh yeah, and Femto is still there! Plus, the Falcons potentially on the way... Yeah, this is really going to need more episodes in the next arc. We really don't need to change the gears and start anything new! Maybe end neo-Berserk now while everyone's already together? :guts:
Based on Guts’s previous performance against Zodd at the Hill of Swords, Guts as he is now with the berserker armor should completely fuck him up. However, it’s still a toss up as to how SG is gonna handle it if the armor didn’t act up even in the presence of Griffith. To be honest, with the amount of episodes still left in this arc, idk if they’re even going to have a full-fledged fight at all.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
There's just that one confusing scene at the beginning of 366 where Guts swings at him and then Griffith is just behind him in the next panel. Did Guts go through him? Doesn't seem like it. Did Griffith move? Also doesn't seem like it. Did Griffith's powers make it so Guts somehow got turned around and missed even though he seemingly hit Griffith? Actually, IS that what's happening? We keep thinking the sword is going through Griffith, but perhaps we're just seeing what Guts thinks should happen only for the result to be different. He thinks he slashed Griffith, but he missed. He thinks he hit him right through the head, but he actually missed again, only plucking off one hair. I have no idea. That whole sequence is poorly conveyed.

I immediately pointed out that the execution was a problem for these scenes in the chat when the episode was released, and as I later reiterated in this thread, I believe it would make sense if this were simply the same kind of "reality distortion power" Femto has displayed in the past. Whether in volume 3, during the Eclipse, in Shet with the arrows or on top of Ganishka in volume 34, he's shown he can manipulate the laws of physics to crush, repel or deflect things.

What he did with SK's strike is especially interesting: he twisted it like a ribbon despite the fact it was itself cutting through dimensions. With that in mind, it doesn't seem crazy to me that he could simply bend space so the Dragon Slayer hits empty air. The alternative is that it really does go through him and we just don't have an explanation yet as to why. Either way, we can only hope we will get a clue in the near future.

I don't want to squee like a nerd, but what if Skull Knight had to intervene!? "Yield before you lose more than pride old enemy, the boy is my charge!" :SK:

If the Skull Knight does anything, I think it'll be striking Griffith when he's distracted by something else.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
If the Skull Knight does anything, I think it'll be striking Griffith when he's distracted by something else.

Won't that be too reminiscent of on top of Ganishka!? Actually, you're right! Sometimes familiar scenarios are for precedent and foreshadowing (it's why we call back to Volume 3 and Qliphoth with our expectations of the Dragon Slayer in this scenario). Anyway, we already know Skully wants to do this, and his failure before likely hasn't changed his mind on his presumably decades, or century plus, long plan. We can use the familiarity and precedent of these scenes, Hill of Swords, Qliphoth, the battle at Flora's mansion, Guts and Zodd vs Ganishka, and the birth of Fantasia, to extrapolate a likely scenario. Here's one equation: Griffith, Zodd and potentially more of the war demons are here to burn down the island and take everyone's heads, Guts attacks Griffith and now he and Zodd will fight, Casca will naturally get caught up in the pandemonium and will be endangered, which will activate the child and compel Griffith to protect her, except this time... BOOM! Skully off the top rope with a Beherit Blade finisher to the fuckin' face!! Then Femto stumbles around grabbing his face, growling and shit, trying to keep his head from imploding on itself, which, with his power he probably can, but not without consequences. Hell, Guts can even charge in and impale him with the Dragon Slayer at this point ala Slan if you really want to rub it in. Then Griffith and his party are forced to depart, his aura of invincibility obliterated. :femto:

I just want to see femto take some kind of damage. He been cool and collected for far too long. Get him skully!

I'd say the perfect thing would be a gnarly cheek scar because aside from showing vulnerability, even to the smallest degree, it completely undermines his charismatic perfection act. Suddenly when he's giving one of his sweeping speeches people will just be staring at his scar and thinking, "Yeah, that all sounds good, but now instead of being caught up in your perfect fucking composure I think you're just some guy with a scar on his face." I don't know if Miura already doing this to Ganishka, though without any social consequences, makes it more or less likely. =)
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Won't that be too reminiscent of on top of Ganishka!? [...] Anyway, we know Skully wants to do this, and his failure before likely hasn't changed his mind on his presumably decades, or century+, long plan.

Yeah. It could be argued that it's "yet another attempt", but destroying the God Hand has always been his objective anyway.

Then Femto stumbles around grabbing his face, growling and shit, trying to keep his head from imploding on itself, which, with his power he probably can, but not without consequences. Hell, Guts can even impale him with the Dragon Slayer at this point ala Slan if you really want to rub it in. Then Griffith and his party is forced to leave, his aura of invincibility obliterated.

I would honestly be shocked if he sustained that level of damage. Which isn't to say that it'd be a bad development, but it would feel like a supernova.

Anyway, regardless of what goes down, I believe after that point they likely won't see each other until the finale. Griffith will be focusing on enacting his plans while the good guys will be trying to stop him (and his four buddies) before it's too late.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Yeah. It could be argued that it's "yet another attempt", but destroying the God Hand has always been his objective anyway.

It would arguably be the fifth such attempt just that we've witnessed, starting back with the Eclipse, Incarnation, Qliphoth, and Fantasia's creation.

I would honestly be shocked if he sustained that level of damage. Which isn't to say that it'd be a bad development, but it would feel like a supernova.

Yeah, even a little cheek scar, if anything, would be hugely significant (I was only half-kidding above =). It would also be a nice little callback and constant reminder of The Slap.

Anyway, regardless of what goes down, I believe after that point they likely won't see each other until the finale. Griffith will be focusing on enacting his plans while the good guys will be trying to stop him (and his four buddies) before it's too late.

That makes sense now that the reveal with the boy is complete and all the stakes, personally and for the world, will be laid out. If Miura we're still writing it though I don't know if I'd agree simply because he was so... prolific isn't the right word, but he always did more than he had to. There was always some unexpected, additive element he'd throw in there, even if it was just some projection of Griffith haunting them at some point, "I see you, Tarnished!" :ganishka:

With this new completion project (this sounds less open-ended and blasphemous than "continuation" =) though I'd believe anything. The series could end here in the next arc. Realistically though, they just need to wrap this up now with the stakes made clear and then it's a matter of getting them to Falconia for the finale, and whatever's in-between is up to them and whatever Miura told them. My only other major expectation is obviously bringing Rickert, Silat et all back into the fold as well, but like I said, we know Miura would have done way more than expected, in quality if not quantity. Ten more volumes of great material in his head would have likely turned into fifteen to twenty volumes of transcendent material on the page, but now we might only get five of, hopefully, mostly good stuff from his executors.
 
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Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
I’ve been wondering if we’ll switch back to Rickert’s side of things after the end of the upcoming four episodes. It feels like a natural place to do it, and like something Miura would pull. He loved to leave us wanting more of whatever we just left, like the master storyteller he was.
 

Beelzebud

[...] Into the abyss will I run [...]
I’ve been wondering if we’ll switch back to Rickert’s side of things after the end of the upcoming four episodes. It feels like a natural place to do it, and like something Miura would pull. He loved to leave us wanting more of whatever we just left, like the master storyteller he was.
With just four episodes left to finish the chapter, think that's more probable if the chapter ends with a great event on elfhelm, and then on the start of the next chapter we get a glimpse of another perspectives, such as Rickert and Silat.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
It would arguably be the fifth such attempt just that we've witnessed, starting back with the Eclipse, Incarnation, Qliphoth, and Fantasia's creation.

*Puts on full nerd costume* Well, ackchually he tried to prevent the incarnation by killing the beherit apostle before it could happen but didn't make an attempt on Griffith himself then, and didn't take a shot at Slan directly in the Qliphoth either. But yeah, it's a pattern and there's little doubt he's been pestering them like that for a thousand years.

Yeah, even a little cheek scar, if anything, would be hugely significant (I was only half-kidding above =). It would also be a nice little callback and constant reminder of The Slap.

Agreed, I have pondered before just how significant a small scar, even one easily hidden by his hair, could be for the people of Falconia. Could "break the spell" a little bit, especially for those who knew him when he was human.

That makes sense now that the reveal with the boy is complete and all the stakes, personally and for the world, will be laid out. If Miura were still writing it though I don't know if I'd agree simply because he was so... prolific isn't the right word, but he always did more than he had to. There was always some unexpected, additive element he'd throw in there, even if it was just some projection of Griffith haunting them at some point, "I see you, Tarnished!"

True, but I think that's where his goons could come into play. Whether hunted down by Irvine in some gigantic forest, pursued by Rakshas in damp tunnels or hounded by Locus' apostles corps in open terrain, I feel like there'd be no lack of challenge on their way. Not to mention, of course, Femto's amigos who slipped in when Fantasia was unleashed.:ubik:

But you're right, Miura would have no doubt gone above and beyond our expectations...

With this new completion project (this sounds less open-ended and blasphemous than "continuation" =) though I'd believe anything. The series could end here in the next arc. Realistically though, they just need to wrap this up now with the stakes made clear and then it's a matter of getting them to Falconia for the finale, and whatever's in-between is up to them and whatever Miura told them.

Yeah, based on what they've said, I don't expect much more than the bare minimum, and that's probably for the best. I'd be fine with them having clear time lapses where it's understood stuff happened and it's up to us to fill it in.
 
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