I've been re-reading my early volumes (the Black Swordsman arc) and I've been wondering about the DS' properties. It's specifically referred to as being a "slab" or a "heap of raw iron," and it got me thinking; wouldn't it be more effective if it were sharp? I mean, it would be a lot easier to slice and dice apostles if it were, right? Any thoughts?
The Dragon Slayer's Effectiveness
- Thread starter Tenro
- Start date
- Status
Well, I dont know how sharp or dull it is, but It DID cut the snake baron and a few other people in half so I think it is pretty effective the way it is now and just because it is referred to as being a huge heap of iron doesnt mean its really dull, but I know the sword that he used while in the Hawks was very dull, but it is not the same as the Dragon Slayer, So I think it is kinda inbetween from being dull and very sharp.
In volumes 1-3;14-16, the Dragon Slayer "couldn't be called a sword." But, as you've seen, it was already quite effective. But in volume 17, Godo reforges it, making it even more monstrously powerful. The Guts vs Bakiraka fight in the opening of volume 18 exemplifies its "rebirth". Guts even specifically mentions that the blade has improved.Tenro said:
note: Admittedly, my understanding of sword tempering and forging comes from Zelda: Link to the Past. So, bear that in mind before forging an opinion *nyuk nyuk*
T
T.portal-G.
Guest
I have recently bought a katana. The price ill keep to myself, I can tell you it wasn't cheap. My sword is made from tempered Damascus steel. It has a full tang which means the blade runs through the handle and is held together by two pins. This makes the blade easier to absorb strikes from other swords and stronger to endure a lot of punishment. My katana is razor sharp and weighs about 2 pounds. Now the dragon slayer is very different. Looking at how the sword is made in the manga it cant possibly be forged in real life and be as effective as it is in the berserk series. I'm not sure the DS was a full tang blade because of the gigantic blade that it has. The Blade width and its handle does not match up. I don't know what is holding the handle to the blade. There's a skinny handle but huge blade, i would think that the blade being so heavy would just break off the handle. But in the manga Guts is able to destroy monsters and endure extreme punishment with the DS. And about the dragon slayers sharpness i think it would have to be sharp since no blacksmith would make a sword that wasn't. This sword was made by the master Godo and intended to be used to slay a real dragon. So a sharpend blade would be automatic feature for the sword.
Tenro said:
Well, like Zelz said, I don't think the sword was dull at all... Though it is emphasized that it can't be called a sword (due to size, thickness, etc), it's still sharp and the panels make it quite obvious to me...
Even in practice, at the end of volume 1, Guts cuts a soldier's hands to free Puck from his grasp very cleanly.
Zelz said:
Duller than other swords because of the thickness, and because it had been in quite a lot of fights without sharpening/care (that's why it eventually broke). That's the reason Guts says so during the 100 men fight. I mean it wasn't a mace, you can see shots of it as reasonably sharp in the Golden Age volumes.
Walter said:
That kind of line is recurring in the manga though, Isidro wonders about it in the same way in volume 18, and Serpico clearly says so in episode 256 for example. It refers to the Dragon Slayer's extraordinary dimensions (and power) rather than its sharpness or anything else, IMHO. For info, I've seen the Ram Dao (what Zodd uses in volume 22) classified under "executing axe" by historians...
Walter said:
I think he really just "repairs" it, renewing the blade and erasing the scars of 2 long years of hard fights. A "rebirth" for the sword like you say, but concerning its condition rather than its "level of performance" (Guts didn't seem to have trouble cutting things in half with it
).Walter said:
I don't remember reading this. In volume 18 after fighting members of the Bakiraka clan Guts praises Godot, but that's all there is to it. Or maybe you meant another scene?
SaiyajinNoOuji
I'm still better than you
Adding on to this.. while those 2 years of constant fighting the apostiles and other nasties. Gut's had no idea that the DS was "absorbing" energies from all the evil spirits/beings that he was killing. So with the "rebirth" of the DS, he began to notice it and it wasnt till they meet up with Schierke and Flora that he discovered what had been happening to his weapon of choice.Walter said:
EDIT for spelling!
Walter said:
Because it's in better condition, like I said? What's your point again? Ah yeah, Guts specifically saying it has improved, which he doesn't. And if by improved you mean refurbished from the poor state it was when Guts brought it back to Godot, I think that's obvious, and I said so in my previous post. Now if you're trying to imply that it's more functional than it was in its original undamaged form in volume 14, I disagree and I'd like to know what elements lead you to this conclusion.
SaiyajinNoOuji said:
He doesn't seem to be noticing anything to me, in what panels would that be? Also, Schierke didn't tell him about it, it's Skull Knight that said he could harm Slan with the DS (unlike with the cannon or another conventional weapon), explaining that it had been imbued over the years.
The specific dialogue I was referring to isin volume 18, when Guts praises Godo for his work on reforging it. Inferring the quality of the sword was better than previously. Guts certainly looks pleased with his "reborn" sword. That's all I was trying to get across. But better than in volume 14? Who's to say? (and does it even matter? The sword is effective.) I'd just like to think Godo gave the reforging extra effort as it was his final work for Guts, but I'm not going to try to back it up with dialogue.Aazealh said:
Walter said:
You're ignoring the two distinct meanings I pointed your statement could have. It has improved compared to what? On what basis? I don't see the need for vagueness.
Walter said:
Well, you said so, or at least implied it. ("In volumes 1-3;14-16 [...] but in volume 17...") And since nothing says so in the manga, directly or indirectly, I'd rather assume it wasn't the case. But that's just me.
Walter said:
Since you can't back it up with anything, I understand not trying. I like the notion of "extra effort" too, what's an extra effort exactly? The sword got +2 to elemental damage? It's like new, I think that's quite a feat already.
EDIT:
Walter said:
He just says Godot did a good job, that only infers what you want it to. Like you said, the sword was effective before. Does it appear to be more effective in volume 18? I don't think it does. That's really just what I wanted to point out.
The weapon actually isn't outlandishly unrealistic in terms of actual weapons. It seems to be essentially the thickness of a Zanbotai (horse killer) with a Scottish Claymore as the basic design for the weapon itself.
Guts would in fact have to be extraordinarily powerful to wield the weapon but it's not out of the physical realm of possibility for a man to use a sword in such a fashion as it's certainly easier to use than a Zanbotai that can only be swung up and down.
Guts would in fact have to be extraordinarily powerful to wield the weapon but it's not out of the physical realm of possibility for a man to use a sword in such a fashion as it's certainly easier to use than a Zanbotai that can only be swung up and down.
willowhugger said:
"Zanbatou" don't exist (no report of the term being used historically AFAIK), most people confuse them with Ôdachi, and I believe it's your case here. And the Dragon Slayer is unrealistic, there's really no doubt, its thickness is nothing comparable with real swords. As for the design, I hardly see how it's close to Scottish Claymores, aside from being big (and even so...).
well...touche.
Though the swords do exist NOW (spelling was wrong since I've only heard it pronounced). A friend of mine made one. Huge guy.
Though the swords do exist NOW (spelling was wrong since I've only heard it pronounced). A friend of mine made one. Huge guy.
willowhugger said:
Well, the "Zanbatô" in Rurouni Kenshin (most famous one I guess) is a Dragon Slayer rip-off for example, and different artists have different designs for it. Miura has Zodd call his sword a Zanbatô in volume 22 (making a pun), while the sword he uses is actually based on a historical weapon with a different name (Ram Dao).
So basically, I think a sword is a "Zanbatô" as long as you want it to be one, it's like calling one's sword a "demon killer" or a "soul bane", it's pretty much a question of how you call it and not a specific type of weapon per se.
If I recall correctly, Godo(godot?) forged the sword in his youth, or at least when he was younger. He was exiled after he made it. So the sword could have easily been made 20-40 years before he ever met gutts. In the time between its original forging, and it's "repairing" he likely improved so he probably used new techiniques or just did a far better job. I mean it was ment to slay a dragon, which he himself said was a stupid idea, therefore he may have just taken a hunk of iron and roughly forged it into a sword, he never expected it to be used.
Kart said:
Yeah, Godot made the DS when he was younger, and it's not precised how long ago it was. Although, while it's probable, nothing indicates that his skill improved. Anyway, he didn't forge a new sword, just refurbished it during the night, so I don't think "new techniques" would have much incidence since the original work on the sword wasn't altered. Perhaps making another sword altogether would have made a difference.
Kart said:
Nah, it's not like him. If you read his speech during episode 93, while he disses the sword he also clearly says that at the time he was only interested in powerful and effective swords (as opposed to ornamented and useless ones), and that if a dragon really existed, then the sword could kill it. He did his job seriously, that's why Guts could use it against apostles for more than 2 years. Then there's his speech in volume 17, as he's repairing the sword, when he says that a good sword can always be mended no matter how damaged it is.
Meathook
The World Eaters are here to save us!
I know Berserk isn't steeped in reality but I'll still make this post. I know (80%) that the midevil greatswords used in our history were, well.... swords, but they were not sharpened to the finest edge as they were going to be used again protected targets or hard targets ( IE: armored foes). I also am pretty sure, but i know my history is mostly bits and pieces I've picked up from hanging around dnd boards and RPGin' for 10 + years, so its not perfect and i could be wrong. But Berserk's creator uses a pretty good basis for reality and armor design, mostly the only thing that really stands out for equipment that is super far fetched is Gut's gear.
Now i know this doesn't take place on "Our Earth." But i though i would toss in my .02¢
Now i know this doesn't take place on "Our Earth." But i though i would toss in my .02¢
Well, the majority of historical greatswords were made longer than a normal two-hander, not wider as the DS is. The Claymore example, for instance, might have had a decent edge, but the massive weight of the sword came from its being a five foot plus sword. Then the blades that had width were also usually super-thin, and ornamental.
I really like swords. I know that majority of real-world info on this stuff, but I was more curious about how things were, as Meathook said, outside "Our World."
I really like swords. I know that majority of real-world info on this stuff, but I was more curious about how things were, as Meathook said, outside "Our World."
Lets not forget that there's probably no real person that could wield the DS. We already know that Guts' strength is impossible, and once it's impossible it can be as awesome as the creator wants it, because it's impossible. Thus, it doesnt really matter what Guts is using, because his abilities are made up. That means his weapons can be made up.
- Status