The Moonlight Boy

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Well that's good and all but I'd like to remind you that this thread is about the Moonlight Boy, guys. So let's please drop the Femto/Griffith talk, especially since it's been discussed in countless other threads already.
 
It's just speculation, but maybe the God Hand was summoned and the kid controlled the body during this time.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Mudo said:
It's just speculation, but maybe the God Hand was summoned and the kid controlled the body during this time.
There's one thing going against that possibility though: in the Dreamcast game, the God Hand is summoned and we only see four of them appearing (Femto's missing). Of course the game isn't fully canon, but it does reflect Miura's intent in many ways.

Additionally, I don't think it would have taken that long for the God Hand to appoint a new apostle. From the way the scene is depicted, it's implied that the boy stayed with the group for several hours.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
Its been discussed before I'm sure, but just rehash a bit, is there any correlation between these pics? I was speaking with another fan not too long ago and they mention these pics and it was something I didn't pick up on. The way the moonlight boy is shown to be all light is similar to the way Griffith appears to Ganishka. Even the way the light is described. Is this just another obvious piece of evidence connecting Griffith to the moonlight boy?



 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Very likely, yes. I remember seeing that scene with Ganishka and making the connection without even thinking about it, really. For me personally, it's been a given that there's a connection between the child and Griffith since that shot of Zodd was revealed. Though, admittedly, the concept has never been directly addressed in Berserk yet, so there could be many other mitigating factors.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
Yea even though it hasn't been addressed in the manga yet, I thought it would be useful to post the two shots side by side just to give a little more insight to anyone since I don't remember them being addressed personally. I know we've seen a lot of the "light" recently in the manga but up to this point it's only been shown a few times, so it kinda helps to sort out when it's shown because it could very well supply some connections that are interesting.
 

Walter

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Staff member
Aazealh said:
I wouldn't say it's "very likely".
Well, OK... but it's certainly not a stretch of the imagination to make that connection. If they share the same body, and the same power, it would make sense that they appear the same, when viewed through astral vision.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Walter said:
Well, OK... but it's certainly not a stretch of the imagination to make that connection. If they share the same body, and the same power, it would make sense that they appear the same, when viewed through astral vision.
Yeah, but they don't have to share anything for their astral bodies to look like they're made of light, that's my point. The same goes for Schierke, Farnese or even Guts when he was hit by the astral wave in episode 305. The only actual similarity is that they both lack detail, but that also falls apart if you look at them closer.

When Ganishka looks at Griffith, he sees his armor, his cloak, everything. But it's just an outline, made to convey that he can perceive him astrally (and we see Ganishka's astral form as well). When Guts looks at the boy, he doesn't see his silhouette but something a lot more abstract, closer to a pure spirit. No clothes, no legs, the hair looks like a flame... It's very specific and definitely done that way for a reason. Not to mention that the boy moves close to him and even touches him in astral form, while physically still in Casca's arms.

So while Griffith and the boy may share something, I don't believe these two scenes prove anything at all.
 

Panicfactorx

"Guess I should say you did well for a human..."
Wow! This thread just consumed two hours! But I wanted to be sure to read the entire thing before continuing....


I'm pulling loosely hear, but: the boy in his astral form reminds me of a spirit (ie: the sylphs, salamanders, etc...) and I wonder (since the moon was out) if the child's nature is like that of the moon. I believe Schierke said her attribute was water, or maybe I misunderstood.

I'm interested in Zodd's presence. Clearly Zodd is important... I wonder if Griffith allowed him to witness this intimate encounter, or if Zodd stumbled upon this accidentally (I say accidentally very loosely...).

As to the child stopping Guts: If it is indeed Griffith and Griffith is in some sort of control, maybe he stopped Guts from killing everyone because he knew they had a greater purpose to serve. He is a member of the God Hand and they are the servants of the IoE... I don't know... just thoughts... I like this thread though.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Panicfactorx said:
I wonder (since the moon was out) if the child's nature is like that of the moon.
What's that supposed to mean? What is the moon's nature?

Panicfactorx said:
I believe Schierke said her attribute was water, or maybe I misunderstood.
I'm not sure who you're talking about here, but yeah you misunderstood.

Panicfactorx said:
As to the child stopping Guts: If it is indeed Griffith and Griffith is in some sort of control, maybe he stopped Guts from killing everyone because he knew they had a greater purpose to serve.
That isn't at all consistent with Griffith's behavior or with how the scene is presented, and it seems extremely far-fetched to me to assume that Griffith was "in control" of anything when the boy stopped Guts. The same goes for the group's hypothetic greater purpose, since at this point they're not very likely to serve the God Hand's interests in the future.
 

Oburi

All praise Grail
Aazealh said:
I'm not sure who you're talking about here, but yeah you misunderstood.
I'm sure he meant what Schrieke said in that volume when she says something Flora use to tell her, about the ocean, how its connected to the astral world. Still does not mean anything according to this scene with the boy, but that must be what he read. :serpico:
 

Panicfactorx

"Guess I should say you did well for a human..."
I misunderstood the scene where Schierke summons the water spirit in Enoch village.
"I am kindred of the water, the spirit of the river that runs through this land". She also later tells the water to assemble under her and she uses the word 'kindred'. I wasn't realizing that she was still performing her magic and speaking for the spirit.

As for the moon: I'm wondering if the child is a spirit of the moon. Salamanders represent fire, undines water, sylphs wind... maybe the boy is the spiritual representation of the moon. Maybe Zodd was there because there was a powerful being present and he wanted or was told to check it out.
 

Walter

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Yet he appeared in the physical world as a human, not as a spirit like all the other elemental entities the group has encountered.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Panicfactorx said:
As for the moon: I'm wondering if the child is a spirit of the moon. Salamanders represent fire, undines water, sylphs wind... maybe the boy is the spiritual representation of the moon.
Even aside from what Walter pointed out, from what we've been told there are only four elements: earth, fire, wind, water.
 

BiQ_

" ... "
My thoughts about it are these: First Guts and Casca's son was tainted by Femto, afterwards Femto takes over his physical body. I believe that when this happened, Moonlight Boy lost his physical body but his astral body and ego (or significant part of it) were left to him. Also, when Femto took over his body, he took the evil with him, leaving Moonlight Boy to exist as a "cleansed" astral being. What happened on the beach was simply the fact that depths of sea (connecting to the astral world) and full moon (which seems to strengthen all kinds of astral things in Berserk world) allowed him to manifest to meet his parents... and that's it. I don't see why there needs to be any more elaborate reason for his appearance at the beach but child's yearning for his parents and circumstances that allowed it to happen.

Griffith's reactions to Casca and Guts are "just" lingering effects, and I don't see Griffith being in any kind of "remote control" of Moonlight Boy or vice versa, let alone them being any kind of "two 'bodies' & one mind" phenomenon. The simple fact that Guts' and Casca's brands were in peace during the family kodak moment should put that theory to rest imho.

What really intrigues me is, if these theories are in any way close to being true, since Moonlight Boy is an astral being, does the merging of worlds mean that he could now be permanently on the same world as his parents? (and everyone else for that matter)


EDIT: /me goes to the corner.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
BiQ-- said:
What happened on the beach was simply the fact that depths of sea (connecting to the astral world) and full moon (which seems to strengthen all kinds of astral things in Berserk world) allowed him to manifest to meet his parents... and that's it.
One has to wonder why the last shot of him we see is atop a cliff then (with the moon as a backdrop). Not the direction of the sea.

BiQ-- said:
I don't see why there needs to be any more elaborate reason for his appearance at the beach but child's yearning for his parents and circumstances that allowed it to happen.
I don't think anyone's really questioning the boy's reason for showing up. Nor his identity (even though there's no hard proof), for that matter.

BiQ-- said:
Griffith's reactions to Casca and Guts are "just" lingering effects
That's very debatable if you look at the scene in volume 22. There's no way to assess the exact relation between Griffith and the boy. So even if you put aside the fact Zodd was on the cliff (could have just been reconnoitering, looking for signs of the Kushans), there remains the question of how can the kid still exists within Griffith (his presence strong enough to compel him to action and to make Casca view him as her child despite his physical appearance) while showing up in another body, with supernatural powers but cleansed of any evil. And before you say they could have been separated between volumes 22 and 28, sure, but how?

BiQ-- said:
What really intrigues me is, if these theories are in any way close to being true, since Moonlight Boy is an astral being, does the merging of worlds mean that he could now be permanently on the same world as his parents? (and everyone else for that matter)
Yeah, it's a possibility. Though you'll remember that the Demon Child was in the Interstice himself, like his parents. What limited him was sunlight, since he had been tainted by evil.
 
Nice find Aazealh. The figure at the top of the hills, the recurrent referrence to the moon, the way the moonlight boy looks like Casca and Guts, it all seems really significant. I find the multiple reference to the full moon even more convincing than the shadow over the ill.
The relation between the boy and Griffith is really puzzling though. There is no way Griffith could be there when Casca hugs the boy. On the field of swords, with Griffith harbouring no ill intent against Casca and Guts, his mere presence was enough to make Casca collapse in pain.

about this remark :

Oburi said:
So then the Griffith from the Golden Age is truly dead....
I'm not so sure when I think about the Count, Rosine, Ganishka, ... They all recovered their old self near the end, which seems to indicate that it survived in some way. I guess this has already been discussed in a more appropriate thread...
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
jaken said:
I'm not so sure when I think about the Count, Rosine, Ganishka, ... They all recovered their old self near the end, which seems to indicate that it survived in some way. I guess this has already been discussed in a more appropriate thread...
It has been discussed at length, and it's not the topic of this thread, but let me clarify that none of the apostles you mentioned "recovered" anything when they died. The Count still loved his daughter in spite of his state; his refusal to sacrifice her wasn't the result of a last-minute change in him. As for Rochine, in the same way, she had a certain affection for Jill right from the beginning. Their deaths were depicted that way to underline the dramatic conditions that led them to become apostles, and to show that they weren't "just" evil monsters. Same thing for Ganishka's remembrance of his past.

And then again, the process of becoming an apostle isn't like that of becoming a member of the God Hand. As can be seen during the Occultation ceremony, the changes undergone are quite profound. It's already been established in the manga that the person Griffith cared most about at the time of his sacrifice, Guts, means nothing to Femto. That's why having the child's feelings for his parents interfere with his actions is such a big deal. In conclusion, let me repeat what Oburi was reacting to:

Aazealh said:
The body Femto was incarnated in looks exactly like the man called Griffith did. However, this doesn't mean that the person known as Griffith up to the Eclipse is suddenly back like nothing happened. Griffith became Femto in volume 13. He was irremediably changed. The one we now refer to as Griffith is merely Femto wearing a Griffith flesh-suit. It's important that people understand this.
Now I'd appreciate if we could stick to discussing the Moonlight Boy.
 
Some time has passed and we've seen the Moonlight boy's appearance more than once now. :ubik:

Do you think Guts suspects anything? It seems like he's got other things on his mind to deal with first, but you could tell the Moonlight Child had more of his attention in 317. I wonder if in the back of his mind, he's tried connecting some dots.
 

Walter

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Staff member
spineylamb said:
Do you think Guts suspects anything? It seems like he's got other things on his mind to deal with first, but you could tell the Moonlight Child had more of his attention in 317. I wonder if in the back of his mind, he's tried connecting some dots.
We don't get as many glimpses into Guts' internal thoughts as we once did, when he was flying solo. But in volume 28, he was reminded of the demon child just after the group encounters the Moonlight Boy. So, that's a pretty big first step.

At this point, it's been established that he's starting to wonder about just who the kid is, since he's exhibited such power. Maybe he'll ask Schierke about him someday soon.
 

Gobolatula

praise be to grail!
It really seems like he's at least halfway there.

1) He knows the boy was the one who interfered with his berserker rampaging.
2) Like Walter said, back in volume 28 while watching Casca sleep with the boy, he thought of the demon fetus, wondering what he was up to.

He's gotta somehow realize that the fetus' appearance has changed. If only the boy would just say "PAPA!"

I hope the boy drops a hint for Guts before he leaves again. He will leave again. Probably, anyway...
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Jaze1618 said:
What if the boy fails to clear out before morning? Will the power of the moon fade? We shall see.
"The power of the moon" will fade with morning, yes. What that means for the boy is uncertain, just like everything else about him is uncertain...
 
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