Would Casca be able to handle the branded life?

ZoddTheImmortal

I Seek Only The Strong
If Casca didn't become mentally unstable do you think she would have fought with Guts or cowered to the darkness? She handled herself pretty good in the beginning of the Eclipse (before apostles started changing), she kept her cool. But do you think after realizing that Griffith sacrificed all her comrades do you think she would think the same as Guts and want revenge? Give me some of your thoughts.
 
Interesting question...

Personally, i think Casca would have helped a lot the guts' fights, but i don't think she would have followed him passively. I imagine her arguing with guts several times about the vengeance thing, about the path to follow and how to reach it...

An other thing if the question was referring to the actual casca, i mean, if casca recover her mind will she be of any help?

This is much different, and leads us to the possible "near" future... In this case, i don't think casca would be useful in battles, cause she didn't draw a sword for a lot of time, maybe guts could make her regain her strenght/ability, with training, but i am not sure she would like to fight again.

And i am confident she wouldn't meet griffith again...
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Phemt81 said:
An other thing if the question was referring to the actual casca, i mean, if casca recover her mind will she be of any help?

This is much different, and leads us to the possible "near" future... In this case, i don't think casca would be useful in battles, cause she didn't draw a sword for a lot of times...
Wait, huh? Casca's very adept with a sword, and even put Guts on his toes in volume 9. Look at her fight with Adon in volume 7-8. She also slaughtered three dudes who tried to rape her, with little effort. I'm not sure where you were misled, but Casca's pretty much a badass.

As for the main point of the thread, once again I think you're underestimating a woman's rage and determination. Did you forget that Casca led the Hawks during their flight from Wyndham for more than a year? Those were rough times. All evidence points in the direction that Casca will be a powerful member of the group when she's back. I have no doubt of it, and I honestly wonder why you guys do.
 
Walter said:
Wait, huh? Casca's very adept with a sword, and even put Guts on his toes in volume 9. Look at her fight with Adon in volume 7-8. She also slaughtered three dudes who tried to rape her, with little effort. I'm not sure where you were misled, but Casca's pretty much a badass.
Phemt81 said:
(...), cause she didn't draw a sword for a lot of time, maybe guts could make her regain her strenght/ability but i am not sure she would like to fight again.

And i am confident she wouldn't meet griffith again...
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Nice, but what you initially typed implied she had only rarely drawn her sword. Period. Now I know you're trying to say she's out of practice, but clearly it's not the case. As I said, she put down those rapists with ease.

Are we really going to argue whether or not Casca has lost her abilities? Because there's more than one example of her showing them off even Post-Eclipse.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Yeah, she's apparently better at killing guys than feeding herself; so in the event she regains her sanity, I don't think fighting is going to be a problem if she needs to. =)
 

ZoddTheImmortal

I Seek Only The Strong
"Griffith No More!" said:
Yeah, she's apparently better at killing guys than feeding herself; so in the event she regains her sanity, I don't think fighting is going to be a problem if she needs to. =)
Yes but it's much different now. She's no longer fighting soilders and mercs. She's fighting Ghosts, Demons and apostles. Casca would stand absolutely no chance against zodd or grunbeld.. Picture casca trying to help Guts fight :zodd: at the hill of swords it would be a massacre all guts would be doing is protecting casca lol. Casca is indeed a good swordsman but her skill compared to guts now is nothing his sword is enchanted with souls or something like that ( correct me if I'm wrong plz ) and he has the berserker armour.... But yes against regular soilders she would probably best most of them.
 
ZoddTheImmortal said:
Yes but it's much different now. She's no longer fighting soilders and mercs. She's fighting Ghosts, Demons and apostles. Casca would stand absolutely no chance against zodd or grunbeld.. Picture casca trying to help Guts fight :zodd: at the hill of swords it would be a massacre all guts would be doing is protecting casca lol. Casca is indeed a good swordsman but her skill compared to guts now is nothing his sword is enchanted with souls or something like that ( correct me if I'm wrong plz ) and he has the berserker armour.... But yes against regular soilders she would probably best most of them.
Neither is Serpico or Isidro. If there is some magical items she can use, she might be starting killing apostle (She killed one very obviously during the eclipse). Regarding the event of Guts protecting sane Casca during Hill of swords, it wouldn't be much so! Ricket will be holding her back just like Judo did back in the battle with Wyald. You never know, she might went straight for Griff, with a weapon of course :casca:
 

ZoddTheImmortal

I Seek Only The Strong
Smith said:
Neither is Serpico or Isidro. If there is some magical items she can use, she might be starting killing apostle (She killed one very obviously during the eclipse). Regarding the event of Guts protecting sane Casca during Hill of swords, it wouldn't be much so! Ricket will be holding her back just like Judo did back in the battle with Wyald. You never know, she might went straight for Griff, with a weapon of course :casca:
True True but Griffith would defeat her you don't remember that Griffith was the best swordsman in the hawks until Guts got all that battle experience. Casca wouldn't stand a chance against :griff:. Unless she was wielding one of those enchanted weapons. She killed a wounded apostle who was weak not to mention (He mortaly wounded judo :judo:). Casca could never equal in swordsmanship against Zodd or Grunbeld.
 

SimplyEd

エンシェント カタストロフィ
Well, i'd say that once she regains her true self..rather her former personality..she will HAVE to cope with the situation, one way or the other. Seriously, in their current predicaments there's not exactly a lot of time to dwell on all those unfortunate events from the past. For one, Casca is one of those persons who can come to terms with incredibly difficult circumstances. Not that she'd have much of a choice anyway, since she is branded after all.

People might still be wondering about the matter of Griff. Well, i'm fairly certain that she'll understand that Griff is no more. :isidro:
And i'm also positive that she wouldn't have too many qualms with kicking Femtos butt, just as he deserves. There's still that tiny little bit of "humanity" left, a vestige of her and Guts's child, which will have some sort of impact later on, but i don't think it'll distract her or Guts from their objective to put a stop to Femto's meddling.

My two cents..which i could turn into top dollar, should I feel the need to contribute bigger posts. :ganishka:
 
ZoddTheImmortal said:
Casca wouldn't stand a chance against :griff:.
Name me one person in the physical world who would stand a chance against Griffith now

Anyway Ed, I do feel that if sane Casca decided to stop Griffith from dominating the world (It's like a monster taking over humanity), Guts will have one thing less to worry about. In fact Guts will no longer be confliced like in the past (to choose to protect Casca or revenge)

If Casca follows Guts group, Guts will be all out to stop Griff.
 

SimplyEd

エンシェント カタストロフィ
Smith said:
In fact Guts will no longer be conflicted like in the past (to choose to protect Casca or revenge)
Fortunately one doesn't exclude the other. Like i said, both of them don't really have much of a choice in that matter since they'll always be prime targets for each and every twisted being around them. Taking the fight to the main hobo is just the logical thing to do if you're cornered by enemies to begin with.
All chances are basically against them but neither of them would want to die like a scared coward, not as long as there's even the slightest possibilty for success.
 

Black_Devil

Punos Rey
Smith said:
Name me one person in the physical world who would stand a chance against Griffith now

Anyway Ed, I do feel that if sane Casca decided to stop Griffith from dominating the world (It's like a monster taking over humanity), Guts will have one thing less to worry about. In fact Guts will no longer be confliced like in the past (to choose to protect Casca or revenge)

If Casca follows Guts group, Guts will be all out to stop Griff.
There are people who can touch Griffith, He made a preemptive strike to take out Flora(who had longsince retired to her life in the woods) as a chance to have one less person who could pose a threat to him. You're mistaken, no one using PHYSICAL means can touch Griffith, you need a special power I believe(Flora had her magic). I'm sure Aaz will come out of somewhere and shoot down/reinforce some of this, but I'm sure I can safely say that although very few, there are some out there who can potentially pose a serious threat to Griffith(Guts included).

Also, Casca will be a powerful ally in Guts' group(assuming she STAYS with them once her sanity returns). Arguing about Casca not being able to defeat zodd/grunbeld is ridiculous. Those two belong to a group of 5 of the strongest apostles we've seen up to this point.
 

Dirty Dog

Avatar by CnC ^^
I think it all depends on where Miura decides to take it. Even before the eclipse, she was probably the most emotional character in the story.

I think that Guts is in for a little dissapointment if he expects to get Caska back exactly as she was prior to the eclipse.
I personally feel that if she is "fixed", she'll probably just try to kill herself... I personally wouldn't blame her.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
You guys think Casca can beat Goku? If not, she's obviously too weak to fight! Ugh, anyway...


SimplyEd said:
People might still be wondering about the matter of Griff. Well, i'm fairly certain that she'll understand that Griff is no more. :isidro:
And i'm also positive that she wouldn't have too many qualms with kicking Femtos butt, just as he deserves. There's still that tiny little bit of "humanity" left, a vestige of her and Guts's child, which will have some sort of impact later on, but i don't think it'll distract her or Guts from their objective to put a stop to Femto's meddling.
I'm not so sure she'll understand that, even Guts is wrestling with it, and I think it's more complicated than Griff is gone, now it's Femto meddling. I'm not even sure what that means, this is still the character Griffith, whatever else he may be. Femto is just an evil incarnation of him to begin with, and now something more in this reborn form; he's certainly not the human he was, but he's something more than Femto now as well. Further complicating the matter is that her child is Griffith's vessel, and vice versa. Assuming she were capable and had the chance, would she just attack him despite this? Even Guts forgot to kill him when he first laid eyes on him.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
"Griffith No More!" said:
... this is still the character Griffith, whatever else he may be. Femto is just an evil incarnation of him to begin with, and now something more in this reborn form; he's certainly not the human he was, but he's something more than Femto now as well. Further complicating the matter is that her child is Griffith's vessel, and vice versa. Assuming she were capable and had the chance, would she just attack him despite this? Even Guts forgot to kill him when he first laid eyes on him.
Those are all variables in the equation, for sure. But even with all that BS going on with Femto/Griffith, Casca rightfully has the most personal grudge against Griffith; even moreso that Guts. He raped her and drove her insane for more than 2 years. I don't think that's the kind of thing you cast by the wayside, even as dedicated as she was to him, and with his enhanced charisma.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Walter said:
Those are all variables in the equation, for sure. But even with all that BS going on with Femto/Griffith, Casca rightfully has rightfully the most personal grudge against Griffith; even moreso that Guts. He raped her and drove her insane for more than 2 years. I don't think that's the kind of thing you cast by the wayside, even as dedicated as she was to him, and with his enhanced charisma.
I didn't say she going to suck his dick or anything, though I wouldn't rule it out. :casca:

I'm just not jumping to any simple conclusions about a very complex situation. It's very easy to understand why she'd have a grudge, but a lot of people find Casca difficult to understand to begin with. Neither her nor the situation is that cut and dry. We don't even know what Griffith is as readers, what's he going to be to her? A man she loved? One that betrayed her? One she let down and lost? Sacrificed her? Saved her? Raped her? Killed her friends? Gave her life meaning? Took her child? Gave it a new life? Ruined her? Made her?

Furthermore, could she see the last remnants of that child in him? Will she feel her child emanating from him? Let's take it a step further into speculation, assume the Moonlight Child is some incarnation of her child, and it's life is tied to Griffith's life. If that's is the case, how is she to react?

Beside that, did she even have enough of her own identity aside from Griffith to hold a grudge against him? Does she now? I'd like to think she'll reach that place, but remember, her last act before the Eclipse was to send Guts away so she could take care of Griffith for the rest of her life; she had already sacrificed herself to him.


But, I don't know, and that's my point; it's all on the table, and nothing would shock me, the very same factors that could lead her to forgive him could just as well drive her to hate him even more, so how can we make a call?

Casca doesn't exactly have the same type A personality Guts does; swing first and ask questions later, and her relationship with Griffith was quite different (a relationship which plays a part in Guts' anger). I think it's going to be a lot harder for her to come to grips with everything than Guts, and it hasn't been easy for him either. Though, with the foreshadowing that the two of them might not see eye to eye, I can't help but think that Guts would be just as incredulous as most of us if she's not as hot for revenge as he is. He understood that Rickert couldn't hate Griffith, but might he expect it from Casca after what he did to her (and furthermore, be hurt and resentful if she didn't)?

:griff: :???:


We can only hope for this eventual scenario...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC1es2w3Rk8
 

SimplyEd

エンシェント カタストロフィ
"Griffith No More!" said:
Long post
Well, all of that certainly has its merits though i'd still like to follow my line of argumentation from before.
I think it goes without a saying that she had great admiration for Griffith in her heart when we are talking about the Golden Age, leading up to the Eclipse. Personally, i wouldn't confuse this kind of admiration with love, i mean, the kind of love she showed for Guts. She loved Griffith for what he stood for and what ultimately lead to his downfall, his desire, as it was staged by the Idea for what? hundreds of years, millenia? This is, in essence, way more abstract and ideological than what she shared with Guts, who himself seemed to value some of Griffiths qualities in that regard.

So yeah, Femto is the twisted/evil incarnation of Griffs desire. Why did he choose to take that easy way out? Because he wanted to achieve his goal without getting apprehended by his own humanity/mortality ever again. Which is to say, even though that thing is still an incarnation of Griff, it's still no longer what Casca valued so much. Because now he's only driven for this very desires' sake and no longer for what this was supposed to achieve in the end. Not to mention all those horrible things he has done to her and Guts over and over again.

Guts (and probably Casca) hesitated at first because of their own sentiments towards the old Griff, which was intensified by the fact that the reincarnation looks just like the Griff they knew. Add to that that Casca might as well have felt that presence of her own child inside the reincarnation.

Now, i'm not saying that she'd renounce that basic admiration she had for the old Griff, but i'm quite certain that she's able to understand that all of that is long since gone and was replaced by Femto.
I don't think she'll just deny all the atrocities that were commited by his "ascension" and happily join up with him or sit idly by while even more evil is being done just because Griffith was a sore loser.
Plus, if not for herself, i'd guess she'd put an end to Neo-Griff for the sake of the injustice that was done to her own child.
It still remains to be seen how this will play out in the end, but, imho, a cured Casca will do the right thing at the right time..whatever that may be.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
SimplyEd said:
Well, all of that certainly has its merits though i'd still like to follow my line of argumentation from before.
Well, I feel like your line of argumentation doesn’t have the same merit, it isn’t consistent with all the facts of her character; as a matter of fact, your first point is to disregard them in favor of your opinion of how she SHOULD feel based on some general morality code. She was changing at the time of the Eclipse, and maybe you're speculating as to the results of that developing change, but I'm simply talking based on the her relationship with Griffith in general, which wasn't exactly normal and healthy to begin with.

SimplyEd said:
I think it goes without a saying that she had great admiration for Griffith in her heart when we are talking about the Golden Age, leading up to the Eclipse. Personally, i wouldn't confuse this kind of admiration with love, i mean, the kind of love she showed for Guts. She loved Griffith for what he stood for and what ultimately lead to his downfall, his desire, as it was staged by the Idea for what? hundreds of years, millenia? This is, in essence, way more abstract and ideological than what she shared with Guts, who himself seemed to value some of Griffiths qualities in that regard.

So yeah, Femto is the twisted/evil incarnation of Griffs desire. Why did he choose to take that easy way out? Because he wanted to achieve his goal without getting apprehended by his own humanity/mortality ever again. Which is to say, even though that thing is still an incarnation of Griff, it's still no longer what Casca valued so much. Because now he's only driven for this very desires' sake and no longer for what this was supposed to achieve in the end. Not to mention all those horrible things he has done to her and Guts over and over again.
Look at it the other way around. She followed him and his dream because she loved him, she loved him from the moment he saved her and didn't want to let him go, that's why she followed him like he was some demi-God. It's made pretty clear throughout Golden Age that she loved him, the tragedy of it was that she couldn't be with him, so she dedicated herself to being the best instrument towards his dream. It's a very naive and human thing, and she certainly didn't take up with him because of ideals she didn't even know about at the time. Griffith may have well been a mere thief, and it would have made no difference. Love came first, or obsession and worship, and admiration was born out of it.

Also, if she truly admired his ideals which were to do anything to reach his goal (remember, he wasn't trying to be King for the good of the World or anything, it was simply his ambition and Casca knew this), then it makes even less sense that she'd be opposed to him now than what I'm saying (she'd be a hypocrite, though maybe she will be =).

SimplyEd said:
Guts (and probably Casca) hesitated at first because of their own sentiments towards the old Griff, which was intensified by the fact that the reincarnation looks just like the Griff they knew.
Well, it's the continuation of the same character. It's not like it's not Griffith anymore, if anything, the Griffith from before was always meant to be this person. Like he's fully realized now, for better or worse.

SimplyEd said:
Add to that that Casca might as well have felt that presence of her own child inside the reincarnation.
Well, that's part of my point, if she feels that way, that's a huge can of worms to deal with aside from her feelings about Griffith, though they'll surely mix. I mean, how much harder would it be to stand against him knowing she's possibly destroying her child, another thing her and Guts haven't seen eye to eye on?

SimplyEd said:
Now, i'm not saying that she'd renounce that basic admiration she had for the old Griff, but i'm quite certain that she's able to understand that all of that is long since gone and was replaced by Femto.
I don't think she'll just deny all the atrocities that were commited by his "ascension" and happily join up with him or sit idly by while even more evil is being done just because Griffith was a sore loser.
Plus, if not for herself, i'd guess she'd put an end to Neo-Griff for the sake of the injustice that was done to her own child.
It still remains to be seen how this will play out in the end, but, imho, a cured Casca will do the right thing at the right time..whatever that may be.
Yeah, but she had already acknowledged the length to which Griffith would go for his dream, all the men he had to sacrifice and the people he had to kill. She understood this far better than Guts ever did. I'm not saying she won't be mad personally for being one sacrificed, but like Guts, she didn't have a problem when Griffith was doing it to others, and was in fact quite complicit. This was the same woman who once would have killed a fellow member of the Hawks on Griffith's order because she felt they were absolute. I don't think she was the same woman in the end, but the original nature of their relationship can't be ignored when analyzing them, and it can't be viewed as a prototypical male/female relationship where she's now a woman scorned. Griffith was her whole life up to a point, and she was still willing to spend the rest of it taking care of him, spurning even Guts in the process; again, her child only complicates the matter; in a sense, he's her father, brother, lover, and little boy (yeah, I just referenced the band Mr. Big =).

Anyway, I don't think you're wrong; personally, I'd like to see her finally stand up to Griffith and stand by Guts, I just don't think it's going to be that simple at first, all things considered. One thing is for sure, it's going to be compelling and somewhat surprising either way, whether she initially holds a grudge or not.
 

SimplyEd

エンシェント カタストロフィ
"Griffith No More!" said:
Another good and long post
Yes, fair criticism i'd have to say. I agree to have tackled this topic on a more subjective note. I guess we'll see how Miura-sensei wants to play his cards in a not so distant future,ne? ^^
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
SimplyEd said:
Yes, fair criticism i'd have to say. I agree to have tackled this topic on a more subjective note. I guess we'll see how Miura-sensei wants to play his cards in a not so distant future,ne? ^^
Yeah, to me it's one of the biggest mysteries of the series, the only thing guaranteed at this point is that it's going to be well done and probably surprise us one way or another.
 

KazigluBey

Misanthrōpos
Being betrayed in such a fashion by someone you considered your personal savior would definitely spark thoughts of sweet sweet revenge.
 

CnC

Ad Oculos
:chomp:
KazigluBey said:
Being betrayed in such a fashion by someone you considered your personal savior would definitely spark thoughts of sweet sweet revenge.
what guts wants may not neccesarily be what she wants, though...
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
CnC said:
:chomp:
what guts wants may not neccesarily be what she wants, though...

"You keep using that a phrase... I do not a think it means what a you think it means."
 
Top Bottom