The Dark Knight

[Majin_Tenshi]

Spoiler

Did anyone else think they went too far with Dent's two face special effect. I thought it was a bit too much. It looked cool but I didn't buy that he was running around with no cheek or eyelid and wasn't feeling any pain ( he didn't want any medication). He didn't have any bandages on either. I mean it was a cool looking effect but it reminded me of the bad guy from THe Mummy. I just wasn't buying it. Can anyone help me put that into perspective?

Spoiler

The design artisticly follows the classic design pretty closely. (on his left side, huge eye and openish mouth)
Two-Face normaly has hair on that side. Its lack escaped my notice while watching.

As for his dealing with the pain. I'd attribute that to the crazy and him having some time to get used to it. They did have a damp cloth over it at the start. We can only assume that the whole side of his face was cauterized by the fire, and being charcol wasn't at risk of infection.

 

[Walter]

Saw it. Liked it. Was entertained. Pencil trick was hilarious, even this old couple next to me laughed at that one, despite how morbid it is. Ledger stole the show, as expected. He was perfect. Easily my favorite Joker.

Now, onto my criticism. My biggest problem: this is a veeeerrrryyyy sprawling movie. It builds to about 3 separate climaxes before even going into the final one. It leaves the audience winded after what FEELS like 3 hours (actually it's only 152 min). I rarely look at my watch during a movie, but for this one I checked it on several occasions, just to gauge where we were in the overall story arc. It was pretty disorienting. And just like the first movie, I felt it went downhill after a certain point.

Spoiler discussion from here on out.

Spoiler

I also did not at all feel that Dent's character transformation was 100% justified. He didn't seem desperately attached to Rachel enough to throw his whole damned career, life, sanity, morals, good suit away. As for his make up, I felt it was a little much, honestly. That being said, I don't even know what I'd change visually. Clearly it's effective make up. I guess I just always thought his face was more sort of melty rather than crispy. But that's my beef, not Nolan's.

I don't think Ledger's death would hold the writers back from bringing some other guy back later on as The Joker. I've forgotten, has Nolan said he flat out won't replace Ledger?

Rachel's death felt very forced, to me. As if it were a last-ditch effort to draw emotion from the audience. And without any sexual tension built-in for the third flick, they'll have an uphill romantic sub-plot to work on for the next movie or it'll be a summer flop.

All that aside, like I said, I was still entertained. I just felt it could have been ... more. Overall, I give it 4 fancy two-face suits out of 5.

 

[Griffith]

I agree, although I didn't feel the time or have the same problem checking my watch (I don't wear one =), I certainly felt what you mean, it's something I always keep track of, pacing and everything, especially afterwards. How's the movie sit in my head, what's it look like in there, the shape of it, what's it feel like, what sticks out? It's a common problem today because movies of all kinds are so long now, and there's a certain ratio that must be followed for any length.
Take a five minute short, that five minutes can go by incredibly fast, or feel like a bloody eternity depending on the material and pacing. It can also feel rushed, and incomplete, but do it right, and the thing can have a sense of completeness and balance by the end, it was only five minutes, but you're totally satisfied with the journey. I think it's a lot harder to maintain that ratio and balance in a two and half hour movie, and Dark Knight is no exception.
For instance, I could have used more Joker, but when I thought about it later, he actually had a ton of screen time (including a scene that could have easily been cut, one I thought could have been cut the second it started), but there was just too much of everything else too, so your highlights get lost in a lot of, not filler, but you get the idea (scenes that if they were in the deleted section on the DVD, you would have understood why). Same thing with Batman. Again, it's the ratio, what's dominating the story arc and the movie? Nothing's missing for it to be a great movie, there's just too much. There wasn't a lot of unnecessary or so so moments, but it's the difference between a great movie with nothing but great scenes and a tight focused story/plot etc, and a good movie where the great stuff is competing with a bunch superfluous elements. I don't know, it's like every movie is 3 hours now whether they need to be or not, and we end up with a lot of good movies with great movies trapped inside if they'd just killed their babies and chip away the rough edges.

This post itself might ironically serve as an example of what I'm talking about. =)

 

[Walter]

Apparently Dark Knight has beaten all box office records for opening weekend. Even the precious Spider-Man 3!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/21/movies/20cnd-batman.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aRhlFVoApFSU&refer=us

 

[Vampire_Hunter_Bob]

Even the precious Spider-Man 3!

Precious? I've pretty much thought that movie was disliked by just about everyone.

 

[Walter]

Precious? I've pretty much thought that movie was disliked by just about everyone.

Precious because it was so hyped when it first came out, and Batman just squashed it.

 

[Guts intestines]

As much as I disliked Spiderman 3 that's still surprising nonetheless, and r.i.p Heath Ledger.

 

[Death May Die]

Don't get me wrong, I thought Ledger stole the show.

Spoiler

But to not get a man to recover the role of the joker would be a mistake. (Who is still alive at the end of the film.)

Batman with out Joker, goes against the entire concept of the Batman universe. I know they can't make 44+ movies of Batman vs. Joker. But to expect everyone to just "forget" about Joker would be a loss and more so would put creative blocks on writing a next movie.

A lot of people were in doubt about Ledger doing the Joker in the beginning. They said he couldn't out do Jack Nicholson. Well, IMO he did. Now, I still feel it would be a loss to say that there isn't a person out there that could continuing the role of the Joker. Someone that we could settle for to maintain the role. Again, all repect to Ledger. It really felt like a once in a life time performance but it would be a shame to see a Batman movie without a Joker, while the character of the Joker is avalible to be present. Of course it wouldn't be Ledger's take.

 

[Guts intestines]

Don't get me wrong, I thought Ledger stole the show.

Spoiler

But to not get a man to recover the role of the joker would be a mistake. (Who is still alive at the end of the film.)

Batman with out Joker, goes against the entire concept of the Batman universe. I know they can't make 44+ movies of Batman vs. Joker. But to expect everyone to just "forget" about Joker would be a loss and more so would put creative blocks on writing a next movie.

A lot of people were in doubt about Ledger doing the Joker in the beginning. They said he couldn't out do Jack Nicholson. Well, IMO he did. Now, I still feel it would be a loss to say that there isn't a person out there that could continuing the role of the Joker. Someone that we could settle for to maintain the role. Again, all repect to Ledger. It really felt like a once in a life time performance but it would be a shame to see a Batman movie without a Joker, while the character of the Joker is avalible to be present. Of course it wouldn't be Ledger's take.

Agreed, but it's not like they can clone him....YET! Muwahaha. Sorry bout that, but everytime I scroll down the pages of this thread my mouse accidentally triggers those spoiler warnings and the flash from them disorients me.

 

[nomad]

Despite all expectations I had, I must say this film took me by surprise. Not much is left to say that has not been mentioned, but I gotta say "props to you Nolan". Yes there are flaws here and there, but overall well delivered.

Spoiler

The funniest thing happened in the show that I went, the moment Rachel died about more than half the people in the room gave it a standing novation. Sorry, but I just keep laughing everytime I think about it. I strongly agree with Griff's last post, but I also liked how Nolan incorporated Two Face in the film. Though Walter was right about his "reasons". That was one character I wasn't aware who would come and go in this film. And I assume most people were expecting to see him "transformed" at the end. As far as boiling point, I'd have to say the Batman / Joker interrogation was my favorite part in the film.

 

[Oburi]

I fullheartedly agree with Griffith's post. Movies these days are overlong and overdramatic, even when it comes to action movies and comedies. However I didn't feel that way about the Dark Knight. It was so epic and like i said before some scenes seemed forced or rushed to me anyway so I wouldn't have minded so much if it went on for another 30 minutes. I wouldn't expect any audience to sit through a 3 hour Batman movie though. Hopefully the dvd will some holy box set packed with extras and extended scenes an such. Is there a dvd like that for Batman Begins? My copy only has the trailer as a special feature, that's it.

 

[Rhombaad]

Is there a dvd like that for Batman Begins? My copy only has the trailer as a special feature, that's it.

There's a 2-disc special edition DVD with a lot of extra features, as well as an HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc that have those features plus a few new ones. There aren't any extended versions of Batman Begins that I'm aware of.

 

[Griffith]

http://www.spike.com/video/bat-thon-part-3/3006755

Part III in the Bat-A-Thon, this one might ruffle some feathers considering he brings up the overrated factor with Begins (the gas getting pumped into the theater was funny), which is true and refreshing to hear from someone besides me and Aaz (apparently he's taking major heat for it too, check the news page on his site =). Let me put it this way though, even I was taken aback by the nitpicking, though it's intentionally done so, and I agree with and have previously expressed the broader stuff he mentions myself in the past. Such as Batman being less realistic in a more realistic setting, etc. Can't say I agree with him on the Dark Knight though (except on those same broad strokes and length), and I loved the ending, at the least the very, very end.

He also reiterates my point that it's silly to compare Nicholson's Joker directly to Ledger's like they were both testing for the same part or something. While I agree Heath's performance is more impressive, that's at the moment, and you could argue part of the reason for that is hes' not even playing the Joker. It's his own unique creation and interpretation, which is part of it's appeal. Whereas Nicholson basically brought the Joker to a T to life, which I don't think he should suddenly be faulted for because Heath played an edgier psychopath in another movie. It's revisionist history. It's still no small feat what Nicholson did, and I question whether Ledger or anyone else could have pulled it off that way. The fact that people don't recognize the difficulty of that performance shows how effective he was doing it. Basically, I still think Nicholson played about the most perfect embodiment of the Joker we'll ever see on screen, while Ledger's amazing rendition transcended the character.

Everyone's a winner! =)

 

[ranemaka13]

I'm not sure why I wait so long to put my two cents in with these things (if I do it at all). The longer I wait the less I feel I'll actually add anything to the mix (which would explain my general absence in topics).
Let me start by admitting that I've yet to sit through the entirety of Batman Begins. Hm, let me rephrase, I did sit through it once before, only I was asleep. I tried again with my father and ended up leaving before it was over. I don't know why, since it seems such a popular movie, it just never really struck a chord with me. And it just felt too long, which is saying something since the majority of the films I own and enjoy have an average running time of 2 1/2 hrs, and most are slowly paced foreign films. I remember Bruce training to be a ninja and........ that's it. Something about the Scarecrow, too. I found myself not caring. (I know, what a bore I can be)
That said, I still found myself excited by this movie. Inexplicably excited. Ecstatic, even. It was the most excited I'd been to see a film in quite a while (at least since last December; what a month!). This was mostly in part to Ledger's performance, which was hyped up before he died (right?), and afterwards, well it was a no-brainer.
I'd never had an issue with Ledger as an actor, and I don't really recall caring all that much about Nolan's choice of casting him as the Joker. I've no ties to these things. If I'd ever mentioned anything about it in a negative way, it must've been an apathetic following of the crowd (I do that sometimes; don't ask me why). When news of his death was released, I found myself in a state of disbelief, more than I'd ever thought possible for an actor. Maybe it was because he was so young and had such promise (he was even readying to direct his own films!), it was a shame to see him go. And so suddenly, too.
That is to say, I was mostly excited to see his performance. I grew up watching Burton's Batman movies, and have fond memories of quoting various lines and scenes of Nicholson's Joker with my friends as a boy. And unlike Burton's recent incarnation of ...the Chocolate Factory (another childhood favorite), I never thought to compare this new performance with the past. And really, no one should. Griffy's right, they're incomparable. They are in no way similar, and are so different that they exist as two completely different characters. Or perhaps, two sides of the same coin (to throw in a Two-Face reference *winkysmileyface*)
I saw this at a midnight showing thursday, and though I was quite tired and had to go to work the next morning, I could not sleep during the movie. It was overall exciting. And the audience I saw it with was surprisingly respectful. They stayed hushed the entire time (except for one instance, that I may or may not get to), and not a soul reached for their cellphone, at least from what I could see.
The next day I was absolutely exhausted and I had trouble telling myself that it was all worth it. I'd even regretted it a bit. Why? Certainly, exhaustion makes us cranky and lethargic in mind and body. But if a film is damn good enough, it shouldn't've been so much trouble for me to be content with a decision to see it early.

Sorry, I think I may have been rambling.

*Spoilers herein*
Note: I'm not going to bother putting up spoiler tags, this is a discussion topic of the movie. If you haven't seen it, and wish to avoid spoilers, you probably shouldn't be reading a topic about people's reaction to it, now should you?

Spoiler

Anyway, I had problems with a few things:
1)I didn't see the point in the Scarecrow's brief (read: 2 minute) cameo in the beginning.
2)I can't stand Bale's Batman voice (it just sounds like he can't breathe in his suit, and it's annoying). I kept thinking why people weren't asking him if he had a cold or something, like, "what's wrong with your voice Batman? You talk funny."
3)I ultimately felt Two-Face was a complete waste of time in this. That is to say, I didn't care about him.
4)I also didn't care about Rachel.
and 5) it felt way too long.

I felt this could've easily just been about the Batman vs. the Joker. Why bring in a second villain that only lasts 30 mins? In fact, I was waiting for the next Joker scene most of the time. Those were the best and the most exciting.

Don't get me wrong, overall I liked this movie and was glad that I saw it. I liked that they killed off Rachel, not because I felt she was ultimately a useless character that lacked any chemistry with Bruce Wayne, but because it demonstrated that they weren't afraid to kill a character that had played a larger part in the two films as opposed to throw away characters that are written in just to die. I felt from that point on, anything could happen.
But, to be honest, and as I've said already (like, a thousand times), the best scenes were the ones that involved the Joker. I don't think anyone denies that.

Um, okay, I'm done.

 

[Griffith]

I added the spoiler tags for you, so your hands are clean as far as your ideology on the matter. I hope you won't resent me for it, but I can take it, because I'm not a hero, I'm The Dark Admin. =)

Pretty much agree with your review, although I liked Harvey, especially how they juxtaposed him with Batman and the Joker. He wasn't just there for the sake of it, even if the movie could have done without. And yes, the Batvoice, I felt the same way with Begins, mostly because that's what I sound like when I try to do a growly voice... and I've never thought I was quite effective at it. =)

Though I'm happy to have lucked into the impression, and found it better in this film, less strained, more comfortable, genuine, and effective. I've always liked the idea of it, to add to the separation of Batman and Wayne, for both psychological and practical reasons.

 

[ranemaka13]

Thanks for doing all the work for me. =) Apologies for being a lazyass.
Next time I'll let you write the review for me. ;)

I should add that I didn't disagree with Harvey Dent being in the film at all, I actually didn't mind his character. I see him and Two-Face as being different characters, if that makes sense. And I agree with the juxtaposition he added.

Spoiler

I just didn't feel there was enough time invested in the character by the time he became Two-Face and then died. A third film of the Two-Face switch & battle would've, I felt, been much better.

(see, I'm not ALWAYS lazy)

The funniest parts with the voice in this one are where he just finished fighting, and he's obviously out of breath, yet he's still speaking with that horrible impression of a dark and brooding voice. Seriously, I was laughing.

 

[Griffith]

Speaking of which, Bateman is another one I feel has been prematurely crowned the BEST EVA NO CONTEST! Certainly the most complete though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC249jPbBDY

Yeah, aren't you glad they got away from the light campy children's movie atmosphere of this one for the "dark grittiness" of Batman Begins? NINJA! =)

 

[Vampire_Hunter_Bob]

edit Never mind!

I really enjoyed this,

Spoiler

I think what helped make the joker was good writing and coming up with these events to help emphasize on how crazy he is. Just the part where the one boat could blow up the other was awesome and helped show how depraved the joker is.

Spoiler

I also have to add I don't believe Harvey Dent is dead. He was the same height as the mob boss when he was dropped and has so many enemies faking his death makes a lot of sense when you really think about it.

 

[Griffith]

Thought I'd address another point from Rane's post, er, I mean, the peregrine falcon...

Spoiler

Anyway, I had problems with a few things:
1)I didn't see the point in the Scarecrow's brief (read: 2 minute) cameo in the beginning.

Spoiler

Dual purpose, they needed an opening Batman fighting crime action scene appetizer to reestablish our hero anyway, and since Scarecrow obviously wasn't in their longterm plans for this movie, it was a nice way of bridging the two films and tying up that loose end with him. So, it was really a pretty good idea in a scene that also established a ton relevant story elements: mob, copycats, batsuit, dogs, etc. Though I know what you mean in that Scarecrow was rather unremarkable; until the mask came off, I wasn't even sure they got Cillian Murphy to reprise the role. =)

Anyway, even that works since Scarecrow was serving in the time-honored tradition of the hapless second-tier supervillain who's all too easily foiled by the likes of Batman. "I'll get you next time Batman!" *shakes fist*

 

[Oburi]

Excellent post The Perineum Falcon, your first (lazy) one. That's close to my feelings as well. And I agree with the batvoice, it bothered me in both films. Did anyone else notice that batman ended both movie by reciting quotes that other characters said earlier in the movie. In the first one it was the (batvoice) "It's not who am I am inside that defines" crap and in the new one it was something about either die a hero or living long enough to see yourself a villain. I hope this doesn't become a gimmick. These are a little corny anyway.

 

[Griffith]

Here you go, the pretentious dialogue topped off with Batvoice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCtxyCEa1RY

I also think they missed out on a golden marketing opportunity here...

"It's not what I am underneath, but the DEEEEW that defines me!"​

Here's a story more Bateman than Batman:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Movies/07/22/bale.questioned.ap/index.html

LONDON, England (AP) -- Batman star Christian Bale was arrested Tuesday over allegations of assaulting his mother and sister, police and British media said.

This is not what you want to DOOOO to define yourself.

Allegedly.

 

[avidwriter]

Here's a story more Bateman than Batman:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Movies/07/22/bale.questioned.ap/index.html

This is not what you want to DOOOO to define yourself.

Allegedly.

Yea I saw that I call BS. I'm thinking they got left out of something, money perhaps?

 

[Griffith]

I was going to ask why make such a judgment call about total strangers, including Bale, when he hasn't even issued a statement yet, but Bale DENIES!

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0265183/

Christian Bale's attorneys released a statement Tuesday denying assault allegations that led to the actor's arrest in London: "Christian Bale attended a London police station today, on a voluntary basis, in order to assist with an allegation that had been made against him to the police by his mother and sister," the star's lawyers said in the statement. "Mr. Bale who denies the allegation, co-operated throughout, gave his account in full of the events in question, and has left the station without any charge being made against him by the police. At this time, there will be no further comment by Mr. Bale."

And the family members in question have no comment except to say it's a family matter:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Movies/07/22/bale.questioned.ap/index.html

And here's a related video. Warning, it may be shocking:

http://www.news.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/07/21/Bale.assault.mxf.news

 

[Walter]

I also think this whole shenanigan is BS, mostly because Bale hasn't been charged yet, and the police are only willing to speak about it off the record. If the information were more credible, I might be more convinced.

It's also just too convenient for this mess to come up RIGHT as the movie premieres.

"Well, sir I find it decidedly INconvenient that the evidence was never found."​

 

[Vampire_Hunter_Bob]

Hey guys I found the video of Bale beating up his mom; http://youtube.com/watch?v=W8LcKev4k1Q