TV Series: Lost

[Aazealh]

Re: Lost Season 4

I checked the episode (Maternity Leave) to be sure. Rousseau doesn't actually say anything about a vaccine, Claire notice that Aaron has a fever and Rousseau shows up and says "He's infected, isn't he? Your child is sick." Claire tells her to get away and Rousseau responds "You don't remember, do you?"

Yeah, well this is still pretty much what I said. Aaron was sick and they went to that bunker to get the serum. And Rousseau related his problem to what happened to the people she came on the island with at some point, which Claire believed. It's mentioned more than once, too. For example Kelvin told Desmond about it, and they both used it for a while. This is the same stuff Ethan gave Claire.

Then the flashes appear when Ethan says "It's a vaccine, we don't want him to get sick." (of course this is a lie and the vaccine is really one for Claire that Juliet made.)

Sounds dodgy to me. See, the problem is that Kelvin and Desmond used the same vaccine (CR 4-81516-23 42), and it's clearly not something Juliet made. Furthermore, Ethan repeatedly states that there's not enough of it for both Claire and the baby, and he injects it directly into her womb, in the way people inject products to foetuses when they have a problem. That's not something he'd do if he wanted to inject it to Claire. And then, there's the fact that a "vaccine" can prevent a disease by making a system immune to a virus, but that doesn't really fit the description Juliet makes of the problem the island causes with pregnant women to me. It fits the mysterious sickness more. Then again, the fact an injection is required every nine days seems weird for a vaccine, too.

Well it never worked before Claire's case since those women got pregnant on the island while Claire got pregnant pre-island. It makes sense that the vaccine for Claire is different from the other Dharma vaccine in the hatch so I don't think it was a retcon.

Wait, Dharma vaccine? Isn't it supposed to be Juliet's stuff? How can it be from Dharma then? =) And really, all this means is that Claire could give birth and not the other women. The fact she got pregnant outside the island only implies that ALL women that do so will live, regardless of using Juliet's useless antidote or not. Basically, Claire's case doesn't mean anything in regard to Juliet's serum, which I doubt was actually her serum at all considering it's from Dharma. It only proves that getting pregnant outside the island will allow you to give birth on it without problems. Besises, in the same episode she tells Claire that she's getting withdrawal from it, Ben reveals she was implanted with something to fake the effect and get people to trust Juliet. Hehe, despite your good will to rationalize everything, the holes and contradictions are just too big to be overlooked.

Anyway, Rousseau's original description for "the sickness" in season one is interesting. Rousseau seem to imply that the Others brought "it" back from The Black Rock.

Didn't she rather say that her people got it after their first visit to the Black Rock, and that the Others are the "carriers"? That's what I remember. The problem being that she apparently never saw anyone before Sayid & friends... Then suddenly she saw the Others and had no problem with that. Whatever, but anyway, remember how what she called the Others were the strange whispers in the woods? Another thing left unexplained ever since. Could be a manifestation of Jacob or the smoke monster or yet another mysterious thing. Ah, and she also said that they got the disease two months after arriving, so I'm going to rule out any connection to Desmond's problem.

She's talking in a very cryptic and confusing way but when Rousseau and Sayid are pointing their rifles at eachother Danielle says that she took away the mechanism on Sayid's rifle and that "Robert didn't notice either" when she shot him (can't wait to see this stuff in a flashback!)
Sayid asks why and Danielle says that he got "sick" and "took them one by one". Hmm. I'm also curious why Danielle's "research expedition" was carrying guns. Sayid asks this but Danielle never gives an answer.

Yeah, I remember that I also would like to learn more about it.

Yes, but it seemed like Desmond suffered the "side effects" because he had been exposed to electromagnetism, that was Faraday's theory anyway. If anyone can suffer these side-effects regardless of having had future visions or not then how could Danielle, the 815ers, Juliet (the sub), Naomi, and the helicopter go in without any side effects? Not to mention Frank and Sayid who were with Desmond on the same baring?

I'm pretty sure it'll be explained by the presence of some radioactive material on the freighter later on, that those two had been in contact with.

It wasn't that much time fuckery in this episode, nothing that would create an outright paradox big enough to alter the present.

You speak as if what you're saying had any solid basis, when it's not the case. An outright paradox? Big enough? Who gets to define this? Because a change is small doesn't mean it isn't a change. And as long as there's a paradox it's going to alter the present anyway. The producers don't want things to be nonsensical, but that doesn't automatically mean they can insert time travelling without it having any consequence on the rest save for the episodes concerned.

Desmond's past self recieved knowledge but it only helped to reinforce course-correction. There's also the possibility that entering the island force field (or whatever it is) causes memory loss. Faraday certainly seemed to have a problem with his memory last episode with the cards. And Penelope did remember that Desmond would call her, but since she didn't know why or might not even have believed it it doesn't change the possibility that she would still show up at the stadium etc... Basically, the consciousness in the past could change, but it will not alter the future state of the world in such a way that suddenly Desmond will find himself in an alternate 2004 like Heroes or Back to the Future part 2. (They even used those examples.) So while such a possibility *could* be explored with this concept if they wanted to, they will not actually go ahead and create alternate dimensions in the show. Mrs. Hawkings rules is law.

Lots of rationalizing that doesn't really work, IMO. The selective memory loss thing is the most plausible, but it's still sounds far-fetched. Who cares if they won't create alternate dimensions like in Back to the Future? That doesn't change anything.

To use this as an example, the likely scenario is that Faraday would soon be discovering those numbers and he gives them to Desmond so he will confirm it a bit earlier, and this could just be a week before Faraday actually gets the numbers right anyway (the fact that Desmond's numbers makes sense to him in the past confirms that he was onto them in the first place) thus nothing is really altered.

But that doesn't matter, it's still a timeloop in the end from that point on. Same with how Desmond tells Penny he'll call at the time he will because he already knows when he'll have to do it to survive. "Course-correction" doesn't change the fact that things are modified. Doing stories like these is just asking for plot holes and contradictions as long as a character in the past gains knowledge of anything from the future.

Yeah that was strange. How could the logbok (it looked like a logbook) end up in the hands of pirates and the actual ship on the island? Does this mean pirates attacked the ship and took the log before it disappeared?

That's the most logical explanation, I guess they could have attacked the Black Rock and then it got caught in a storm and ended up on the island. Something like that.

 

[Griffith]

Re: Lost Season 4

I like how there's some argument as to whether there can be time travel on Lost after the time travel episode where several things in the present clearly happened or were altered as a direct result of time travel.

Anyway...

I think you, me, and most everyone will say "Lost sure was an awesome show" and "those writers were genius" in the end.

I'm sure I'll be satisfied, but I'm not going to lose my mind and throw the word "genius" around over a cleverly entertaining prime time soap opera. Let's leave that to the Sopranos people. =)

What is this "crap" that is "currently going on"? Everything (except the relationship between Kate and Sawyer) is very interesting right now. This episode was awesome, but next week also looks like a good one. I see what you mean by the whole stand alone stories though, but it's probably a bit difficult to do those when we're in the beginning of the end.

That's your opinion that it's interesting, and that's fair, but I put a lot more of it into the Sawyer and Kate relationship category; predictable and boring. For the most part it's been a bunch of hurry up and wait scenarios that start out exciting and promising but result in the characters standing around on the beach again, etc.

 

[Aazealh]

Re: Lost Season 4

I like how there's some argument as to whether there can be time travel on Lost after the time travel episode where several things in the present clearly happened or were altered as a direct result of time travel.

Tell me about it...

 

[A.C]

Re: Lost Season 4

I managed to track down the article interview from the writer-producers regarding how they're handling the time/space plot, here's the quote:

LINDELOF: We're not going to tell you that we're against bending the time/space continuum. We are very for it. Carlton and I are PRO time-space continuum bending! But we're ANTI-paradox. Paradox creates issues. In Heroes, Masi Oka's character travels back from the future to say, ''You must prevent New York from being destroyed.'' But if they prevent New York from being destroyed, Masi Oka can never travel back from the future to warn you, because Future Hiro no longer exists. Right? So when we start having those conversations at Lost, we go, ''This show is already confusing enough as it is.'' To actually have characters traveling through time has to be handled very deftly.

CUSE: For example, the fifth episode of the season deals with time travel and operates in different time periods. It was a tough story to break. But we adhere to our rule: no paradox.

And the following was said in their podcast, I'll transcribe it here:

LINDELOF: We are very paradox averse. That is to say, when our characters are time-traveling nothing that they do can change the present or the future that you have seen which is different from conventional Back to the Future time-travel storytelling.

CUSE: For us, what we don't want is for the audience to not be invested in the flash-forwards. When you see them it would be pretty meaningless if they were a changable reality as far as time-travel goes. The hard part about this episode was actually structuring the time-travel elements, or "consciousness traveling" elements, and avoiding paradox.

LINDELOF: Mrs. Hawking basically explained those rules in the first [time-traveling] episode FLASHES BEFORE YOUR EYES where she basically said the universe has a way of course correcting. So even if you did something in the past that you didn't do before - somehow the sort of fabric of time like swoops in around you and fixes everything so things don't go off the rails. I assume probably after THE CONSTANT we're gonna get alot of questions like; Well did Penny know when she went to see Desmond in the stadium in 2001 that he had told her to wait by the phone back in 1996? All of these questions. And to that we just say, refer to the Mrs. Hawking scene in FLASHES BEFORE YOUR EYES. She gives a fairly good explanation of how everything works.

CUSE: More on destiny later in the series.

Maybe Daniel loses his memory because the fabric of time swoops in around him and erases his memory so that he would not remember his 1996 meeting with Desmond.

 

[Griffith]

Re: Lost Season 4

...​

Anyway, I find their logic to be... well, paradoxical. I mean, you can extend the course-correcting universe thing to justify any outcome you want, whether it be, or perhaps more appropriately, whether you want it to be, a paradox or not. Especially if you're going to throw even squishier concepts like destiny into the mix. Then you can effectively argue that nothing is a paradox. Or, going beyond this argument since they say they're "anti-paradox" or whatever, one could argue that destiny exists outside and over time and allows for or even relies on time paradoxes, which could even justify their Heroes example (-10 points to them for that reference BTW =), especially if you make the case that one or both of them aren't necessarily linear.

 

[Aazealh]

Re: Lost Season 4

What that tells me is that these guys throw around the word "paradox" way too much and seem to think it means something very specific when it's really just about a situation contradicting itself. I understand what they want to say, but they're just not explaining it very well, and the reasons they invoke are quite flimsy. I mean he can call it "time bending" if he wants, but when you change something it's changed, that's it. The fact it doesn't have major repercussions that complete change the future doesn't nullify that fact. Honestly, the guy would have been better just saying they won't have time travelling affect the story too much because they don't want it to be like BTTF. Trying to talk about it in serious terms like they're time travel scientists is a bad idea.

 

[A.C]

Re: Lost Season 4

I'm sure I'll be satisfied, but I'm not going to lose my mind and throw the word "genius" around over a cleverly entertaining prime time soap opera.

Maybe not use the word "genius" but I can hear people say "The answers did not disappoint" and "The Smoke monster was pretty cool looking after all."

 

[Aazealh]

Re: Lost Season 4

"The Smoke monster was pretty cool looking after all."

"Man, I never thought I'd say that one day, but after seeing that godawful final episode, I feel like in comparison to what we got after season 4 even the smoke monster looked cool after all."

 

[Griffith]

Re: Lost Season 4

I think I'll be satisfied, of course I really only have this feeling because of the season 3 finale, and this would obviously be a totally different thing (Hell, if they can set it up so the mega happy ending is satisfactory, I'll take it). But I don't think anything will make me like the smoke monster, which, as has been discussed, even flies in the face of the "better than nothing" defense because nothing was actually better. =)

Who knows though, maybe they'll do something incredibly awesome with it and change my mind.

 

[A.C]

Re: Lost Season 4

On another note, why does it feel like Ben's spy is shaping up to be Michael at this point? Ignoring the fact that it doesn't make sense, Michael is supposed to be a series regular this season and it feels like the spy is going to be someone we've seen before.

Ben: I have a man on their boat.

Sayid Who?

Ben It's a secret.

Minkowski: Looks like you have a friend on this boat.

If the Freighter picked Michael up then it makes no sense that they would keep him around and not suspect that he's a spy/sabotager, but maybe they didn't pick him up. When would Ben have established contact with him? I've been skeptical towards fans theories that it could be Michael but it would be typical LOST to throw all these questions up in the air and there's only three more episodes left before they make new ones. Michael is supposed to have made the cut.

 

[Aazealh]

Re: Lost Season 4

Well, the "looks like you have a friend on this boat" line doesn't necessarily indicate anything. At this point it could still be some anonymous agent I think. However, now that you mention it, it does feel like it could be Michael, knowing the Lost writers and their tendencies...

 

[Griffith]

Re: Lost Season 4

[quote author=Griffith No More!]I wouldn't mind more of this as it was actually done quite nicely, especially compared to a lot of the other crap going on (and what unfortunately looks like it's going to be more of next week).[/quote]

[quote author=A.C]What is this "crap" that is "currently going on"?[/quote]

THAT! =)

Spoiler

See, told you, do I know this show or what? And I'm being generous with the rating throwing in that Sayid neck break because I was more or less entertained by the end. This episode was largely rubbish, bored me within the first 15 minutes, and was the first full-fledged filler plot I'd say, as the Juliet flashback felt like a clip show, and the gas plot was another useless running in a circle jungle chase. But the Ben stuff was interesting as usual, though I'd guessed Widmore would be the bad guy last week when he was bidding on the Black Rock, but Locke couldn't possibly be any dumber (unless he was Jack), so that's a little disappointing. I don't know why they're making it so obvious now that Michael is the guy on the boat (unless that's just what they WANT is to think! =), and I guess Aaron is one of the six, unless I misheard the promo? I thought it said we knew 5 and we'd find out the last next week (which would probably mean some combination of Sun and/or Jin if Aaron doesn't count).

Oh, and it's nice to see that despite being an evil genius, Ben is still a hapless nerd with the ladies. =)

 

[NightCrawler]

Re: Lost Season 4

Episode sucked, best line was "Red Sox?" "I tapped it over".

 

[A.C]

Re: Lost Season 4

Spoiler

This episode was largely rubbish, bored me within the first 15 minutes, and was the first full-fledged filler plot I'd say, as the Juliet flashback felt like a clip show, and the gas plot was another useless running in a circle jungle chase.

This episode

Spoiler

didn't do much for Juliet

and it certainly felt like a

Spoiler

"fill in the blanks" episode,

but it was in no way

Spoiler

a "filler plot".

This was foreshadowed in CONFIRMED DEAD with the

Spoiler

gasmasks.

It was a required episode at this point. It was

Spoiler

predictable, but at least it confirmed alot of things like Charles Widmore being behind the Freighter, that Ben isn't the one writing the lists, and how the Hostiles managed to gas the Dharma members in the past.

Also, Charlotte was

Spoiler

pretty cool.

I cheered when she

Spoiler

knocked out Kate.

Spoiler

Did anyone else think Harper was a manifestation of Jacob or the Monster? I thought this was going to be a test for Juliet to see if she would kill them. Ben couldn't have had anything to do with it and he said the rest of the Others didn't care about him anymore. I think we'll learn that Harper died in the raid on the beach camp or that she never left the Temple at some point to confirm it was the Monster. What do you think?

 

[Griffith]

Re: Lost Season 4

This episode

Spoiler

didn't do much for Juliet

and it certainly felt like a

Spoiler

"fill in the blanks" episode,

but it was in no way

Spoiler

a "filler plot".

This was foreshadowed in CONFIRMED DEAD with the

Spoiler

gasmasks.

It was a required episode at this point.

It was required because they shot it already, this is the type of material they're likely cutting out when they start shooting their compressed season.

Spoiler

The masks could have been explained away with a sentence, and it's not like it'd be the first, or the biggest, thing they just left hanging without explanation. It was a circular red herring of a plot, "We have to stop something that isn't happening and obviously won't happen anyway because it's sole purpose is for us to run through the jungle to stop it from never happening!" It really did nothing to advance or even have anything to do with the plot aside from a few details they could apply to any filler plot you can think of, which would be fine, except it was just lame (not to mention every character had to act ridiculously stupid for it to proceed, I was really trying to be kind in my review before and not undress the whole episode because it certainly wasn't their worst or anything). Anyway, you call it "fill in the blanks", I call it "filler", it's the same weak episode either way.

It was

Spoiler

predictable, but at least it confirmed alot of things like Charles Widmore being behind the Freighter, that Ben isn't the one writing the lists, and how the Hostiles managed to gas the Dharma members in the past.

Also, Charlotte was

Spoiler

pretty cool.

I cheered when she

Spoiler

knocked out Kate.

Those things are fine, but could have fit anywhere anyway, like a much better episode, this was a clear cut case of a mid-season dog day outing.

Spoiler

Also, even I don't hate Kate THAT much, and since Charlotte is already more annoying than Kate, I'm saving my cheers. I like this hatred in you though, give in to your anger. =)

Spoiler

Did anyone else think Harper was a manifestation of Jacob or the Monster? I thought this was going to be a test for Juliet to see if she would kill them. Ben couldn't have had anything to do with it and he said the rest of the Others didn't care about him anymore. I think we'll learn that Harper died in the raid on the beach camp or that she never left the Temple at some point to confirm it was the Monster. What do you think?

Spoiler

Yeah, that was my first thought too, had to be some monster illusion like Eko's brother, or some similar island phenomenon (of course, that's what they WANT us to think! Then boom, Harpers among the others =). In any case, I wouldn't assume too much about Ben's part in it though, we don't know the full range of his powers and connections on the Island or how they work. What Harper said may just be BS, as the whole things sounds that way, but if Ben was already talking to a ghost in a cabin, then it's too late to worry about his somehow sending Harper or the monster as unreasonable.

 

[Walter]

Re: Lost Season 4

Your spoilerific post makes Future Sayid weary.​

Reading through these spoilers is pretty obnoxious, but I know they're necessary...

Spoiler

Ben putting the hamhanded moves on Juliet made up for the rest of the episode for me.

Spoiler

The macguffin of the episode was really a bunch of BS, from the information we've been given. So the new guys had to COVERTLY disable the poison gas, but couldn't tell anyone about it ... why? Why would the Islanders be against it?

However, I honestly don't mind a few stinker episodes. God knows we've sat through our fair share of them. It comes with the LOST territory.

I have to say, the more we learn about Ben, the more I think of him as a Bond villian, ruling a SECRET FORBIDDEN ISLAND

Spoiler

filled with DEADLY GAS!!

On a sappier note, when Harper mentioned that Juliet "looked just like her" I'm guessing she meant Ben's childhood ... uh..., girlfriend, from The Man Behind the Curtain? The one we saw so mysteriously little of, and whose fate was ultimately left up to our imaginations.

 

[A.C]

Re: Lost Season 4

[quote author=NightCrawler]
Episode sucked, best line was "Red Sox?" "I tapped it over".
[/quote]

Spoiler

Oh yes, does that mean that Ben recieved that footage through the Flame Station after he showed the game to Jack?

 

[Aazealh]

Re: Lost Season 4

Can't say I was very thrilled by this episode. The flashback part is a good example of how "more is less" to me. It made all the characters involved lamer than they were before. The worst is Ben of course, with his obvious non-understanding of the human mind (which severely contradicts his supposed genius when it comes to social skills and manipulating people). At least he reads good books (P.K. Dick), must be where he gets his super ideas from. So Goodwin died because Ben wanted it, uh? Nice retcon there. And awwwww, he was such a nice guy too, well, except that time when he murdered a poor guy in cold blood. Anyway, Juliet's love story with him (he HAD to be married too, not enough drama otherwise) sucked IMHO, and Ben's awful moves were funny but mostly embarrassing. At least I smiled when he asked Locke if the rabbit had a number tattooed on it. Oh and I was glad that Jack and Juliet finally kissed, though seeing how heavy-handed everything was I expected Kate to be witnessing it from inside the facility with a hurt look on her face.

I found the whole premise of the episode pretty bad, and not well put together if you start thinking about why the gases were about to explode at that time while the guy taking care of them died long ago. Those people that just arrived on the island got to the station without a hitch, right in time to stop the deadly countdown, just one second before it killed everybody. Hearing about the magic voices again was nice, at least we know the writers haven't forgotten them, and having the confirmation that Widmore is Dr. Claw was welcome too. Locke is as clueless as ever, and the end of the episode had me rolling my eyes up. And what about Kate, how dumb do you have to be to kneel down while turning your back to people you're suspecting of being up to no good? Just about everything was retarded in this episode.

I'd guessed Widmore would be the bad guy last week when he was bidding on the Black Rock

Didn't we all guess this in season 2/3? It was so obvious they didn't even bother to make it dramatic. "So this is Widmore, he's the bad guy and he's an evil capitalist, here's a file on him."

I don't know why they're making it so obvious now that Michael is the guy on the boat (unless that's just what they WANT is to think! =), and I guess Aaron is one of the six, unless I misheard the promo? I thought it said we knew 5 and we'd find out the last next week (which would probably mean some combination of Sun and/or Jin if Aaron doesn't count).

Yeah, that stuff about the man on the boat wasn't very subtle. At least it semi-confirms that it's Michael. About the Oceanic 6, I used to think Jin and Sun would be part of it, but with Aaron it's hard to be sure now. And I'm not certain I'd like it either, seeing how their flashbacks went from pretty cool to annoying about halfway there. Another example of how "more is less". It'd be a good opportunity to link Sun's evil father to the evil Widmore corporation though. There's also the possibility of only one of them being back, which would set us up for more drama.

Also, Charlotte was pretty cool. I cheered when she knocked out Kate.

Really? Damn, I just like her less and less. If they were going to save everybody, why bother to lie, go without telling anyone, fight uselessly and do all that shit? It's not needed. It's not more convenient or more logical or anything. It just invites bloodshed and lowers whatever trust they're getting. Honestly it just seems stupid to me. And she's got this incredibly annoying thing about her, it's hard to explain (on second thought, don't you find her a little like Shannon?), but I don't like her attitude at all. I'd take Kate over her any day, not to mention Juliet who's like the coolest woman on earth in comparison.

Did anyone else think Harper was a manifestation of Jacob or the Monster? I thought this was going to be a test for Juliet to see if she would kill them. Ben couldn't have had anything to do with it and he said the rest of the Others didn't care about him anymore. I think we'll learn that Harper died in the raid on the beach camp or that she never left the Temple at some point to confirm it was the Monster. What do you think?

Yeah, that was pretty obvious. The magic voices arrive, Harper appears out of nowhere to deliver a dubious message, then the voices come again and she vanishes.

On a sappier note, when Harper mentioned that Juliet "looked just like her" I'm guessing she meant Ben's childhood ... uh..., girlfriend, from The Man Behind the Curtain? The one we saw so mysteriously little of, and whose fate was ultimately left up to our imaginations.

That was my guess as well.

Oh yes, does that mean that Ben recieved that footage through the Flame Station after he showed the game to Jack?

That's what I think.

 

[A.C]

Re: Lost Season 4

It made all the characters involved lamer than they were before.

You do have a point there, I think every character, every character, came out looking slightly worse after this episode. (The ones who were in the episode at least.) I didn't enjoy watching it a second time.

The worst is Ben of course

I fear Ben is becoming the slut of the show. I was expecting him to be less "evil genius" and more sympathetic this season but it's like the writers are loading all that is nasty onto him.

So Goodwin died because Ben wanted it, uh? Nice retcon there. And awwwww, he was such a nice guy too, well, except that time when he murdered a poor guy in cold blood.

The man he murdered (Nathan) was one of "the bad guys."

Oh and I was glad that Jack and Juliet finally kissed, though seeing how heavy-handed everything was I expected Kate to be witnessing it from inside the facility with a hurt look on her face.

Ever since Juliet was introduced I thought she'd be a good love-interest for Jack, but he killed the chemistry he had with Juliet last season finale when he told Kate that he loved her.

I found the whole premise of the episode pretty bad, and not well put together if you start thinking about why the gases were about to explode at that time while the guy taking care of them died long ago. Those people that just arrived on the island got to the station without a hitch, right in time to stop the deadly countdown, just one second before it killed everybody.

Was the gas really about to explode? I never quite got that. I thought they were releasing it so they could neutralize it or something.

If they were going to save everybody, why bother to lie, go without telling anyone, fight uselessly and do all that shit? It's not needed. It's not more convenient or more logical or anything. It just invites bloodshed and lowers whatever trust they're getting.

They don't trust anyone on the Island, especially since the 815'ers all have been in contact with Ben. It was understandable IMO.

And she's got this incredibly annoying thing about her, it's hard to explain (on second thought, don't you find her a little like Shannon?), but I don't like her attitude at all. I'd take Kate over her any day, not to mention Juliet who's like the coolest woman on earth in comparison.

She does remind me of Shannon, but I never hated Shannon. Charlotte's attitude does suck though, but I have not seen enough of her yet to make my final judgement. Kate is very pleasing to the eye but her personality makes no sense to me. Juliet was interesting in Season 3 but now she's just boring. My favorite girl is actually Claire, she's the cutest anyway though I don't like babies. That's why I hope Claire gets to do something after Aaron ends up with Kate but probably she'll just die when that happens =(

 

[Griffith]

Re: Lost Season 4

Can't say I was very thrilled by this episode. The flashback part is a good example of how "more is less" to me. It made all the characters involved lamer than they were before. The worst is Ben of course, with his obvious non-understanding of the human mind (which severely contradicts his supposed genius when it comes to social skills and manipulating people).

Agreed, but I'd extend that to the entire episode. It was like the Billy Madison effect on every character, "Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it." Or in this case, having been in this episode (or watching it).

And awwwww, he was such a nice guy too, well, except that time when he murdered a poor guy in cold blood.

Not to mention he was basically trying to cheat on the woman he was cheating on his wife with.

At least I smiled when he asked Locke if the rabbit had a number tattooed on it.

That was excellent.

Didn't we all guess this in season 2/3? It was so obvious they didn't even bother to make it dramatic. "So this is Widmore, he's the bad guy and he's an evil capitalist, here's a file on him."

Yeah, but you can guess that anyone's dad is a "bad guy" on this show and you'll be right, it still doesn't mean they'll go through with one being the big boss (I'll actually be dissapointed if they don't introduce someone new, though I'm sure we're in for more twists, "Widmore's really the GOOD GUY!"). It was just made clear last week that it was Widmore, as opposed to Sun's evil father or something (unless he's part of Widmore's league of bad dad's too). Seriously, this show has more father issues than Steven Spielberg's entire catalogue.

And I'm not certain I'd like it either, seeing how their flashbacks went from pretty cool to annoying about halfway there. Another example of how "more is less".

Yes, the Sun and Jin episodes used to be cool, now I dread them, and they've really become forgotten characters anyway. But they already had an awful exchange this season, Sun, "I'll do what's best for MY baby." Jin, "You mean OUR baby?" He's questioning her on her choice of vocabulary here but believes her story of, "I'm pregnant, and you're sterile, but I swear I've never been with another man." Way to go Jin, you better hope for some Island magic to fix that one, "My sperm can walk again, it's a miracle!"

The man he murdered (Nathan) was one of "the bad guys."

For all we know, that's just total BS though, that could be everyone they didn't take, including Anna, who Goodwin wanted to join up with and fuck anyway (though that seems to be his MO for every character with a vagina). Anyway, he only said that to justify murdering the guy anyway after admitting his real reason was that Anna would soon realize Nathan wasn't the spy.

Ever since Juliet was introduced I thought she'd be a good love-interest for Jack, but he killed the chemistry he had with Juliet last season finale when he told Kate that he loved her.

Yeah, it was a pretty dick move all around on Jack's part, Kate: "Why are you sticking up for Sawyer?" Jack: "Because I'm trying to steal his girlfriend, I mean, I love you!"

Was the gas really about to explode? I never quite got that. I thought they were releasing it so they could neutralize it or something.

The correct answer is "or something."

They don't trust anyone on the Island, especially since the 815'ers all have been in contact with Ben. It was understandable IMO.

It still doesn't make sense unless they're all idiots incapable of critical thought.

She does remind me of Shannon, but I never hated Shannon. Charlotte's attitude does suck though, but I have not seen enough of her yet to make my final judgement. Kate is very pleasing to the eye but her personality makes no sense to me. Juliet was interesting in Season 3 but now she's just boring. My favorite girl is actually Claire, she's the cutest anyway though I don't like babies. That's why I hope Claire gets to do something after Aaron ends up with Kate but probably she'll just die when that happens =(

Claire's the cutest but you don't like babies... Why are you judging them like prospective dates? =)

"Locke's okay, but I'm not attracted to bald men."

 

[Aazealh]

Re: Lost Season 4

The man he murdered (Nathan) was one of "the bad guys."

Pfff, who's not a bad guy with all those subjective standards? And that doesn't make it any less bad anyway. I cheered when Anna Lucia killed Goodwin, and at that time he definitely had something more sinister going about him than what they're depicting here.

Ever since Juliet was introduced I thought she'd be a good love-interest for Jack, but he killed the chemistry he had with Juliet last season finale when he told Kate that he loved her.

Hahaha well, all the romance in the show is fucked up anyway. Juliet's in love with Jack and her lover has only been dead for what, a few months at max? Same for everything else. The only realistic character is Sawyer in that regard. I even appreciated his reaction to Anna Lucia's death.

Was the gas really about to explode? I never quite got that. I thought they were releasing it so they could neutralize it or something.

I just said so randomly, we don't get any real information about it. And honestly, I don't think it's even very credible. I doubt the gas could have covered all the island and effectively killed everything on it, not to mention the bunkers and all that could protect people for the little time it'd be dangerous. Just more bullshit thrown at the viewer.

They don't trust anyone on the Island, especially since the 815'ers all have been in contact with Ben. It was understandable IMO.

So then who or what were they trying to save from the deadly chemicals exactly? Just seems backwards to me.

She does remind me of Shannon, but I never hated Shannon. Charlotte's attitude does suck though, but I have not seen enough of her yet to make my final judgement. Kate is very pleasing to the eye but her personality makes no sense to me. Juliet was interesting in Season 3 but now she's just boring. My favorite girl is actually Claire, she's the cutest anyway though I don't like babies. That's why I hope Claire gets to do something after Aaron ends up with Kate but probably she'll just die when that happens =(

Well I really didn't like Shannon at all, and Charlotte's heading the same way. Claire is also my favorite female character, for several reasons. I think all the girls look good so that's not much of a criteria (I mean, they're hollywood actresses and all, come on ::)), but among other things I like her personality, way of interacting with others and I dig her accent. You have to consider the fact that Kate wouldn't be as annoying if the writers hadn't made her that way to try to captivate the female audience.

Not to mention he was basically trying to cheat on the woman he was cheating on his wife with.

Indeed, what a great guy.

Yeah, but you can guess that anyone's dad is a "bad guy" on this show and you'll be right, it still doesn't mean they'll go through with one being the big boss (I'll actually be dissapointed if they don't introduce someone new, though I'm sure we're in for more twists, "Widmore's really the GOOD GUY!"). It was just made clear last week that it was Widmore, as opposed to Sun's evil father or something (unless he's part of Widmore's league of bad dad's too). Seriously, this show has more father issues than Steven Spielberg's entire catalogue.

Haha yeah, that's right. I actually think that we might get to see some sort of S.P.E.C.T.R.E. thing where Widmore and Sun's dad will be in league, maybe under yet another mysterious super evil guy. Could it be Ben's mom?!

Yes, the Sun and Jin episodes used to be cool, now I dread them, and they've really become forgotten characters anyway. But they already had an awful exchange this season, Sun, "I'll do what's best for MY baby." Jin, "You mean OUR baby?" He's questioning her on her choice of vocabulary here but believes her story of, "I'm pregnant, and you're sterile, but I swear I've never been with another man." Way to go Jin, you better hope for some Island magic to fix that one, "My sperm can walk again, it's a miracle!"

To be honest though, women say that sort of thing in general, even when they're not cheating on their husband.

 

[A.C]

Re: Lost Season 4

I cheered when Anna Lucia killed Goodwin, and at that time he definitely had something more sinister going about him than what they're depicting here.

He had to finish Ana off once he knew she was on to him, of course he's going to come off as a bit sinister in her/our eyes at that point. He knew she as "bad" and that she had to go, yet he had feelings for her. But he also had to finish the mission so that he could return to Juliet. It couldn't have been easy for him. His character is consistent whether you think he's likable or not.

I doubt the gas could have covered all the island and effectively killed everything on it, not to mention the bunkers and all that could protect people for the little time it'd be dangerous. Just more bullshit thrown at the viewer.

Well, the Dharma folks seems to be been offed effectively that way. Of course, the people in the Swan survived. Now that I think about it, how the hell did Kelvin Inman get to the Island in the late 90's when Ben was in control of the Island at that point?

So then who or what were they trying to save from the deadly chemicals exactly?

Themselves? Miles? Ben? Lots of reasons.

Claire is also my favorite female character, for several reasons. [...]
I like her personality, way of interacting with others and I dig her accent.

That's pretty much the reasons I like her too, plus she hasn't had any pointless flashbacks. The thing that bugs me is how she's not been upset about Charlie since Hurley brought her the news though. I've also wondered what she would be doing on the Island if she didn't have a baby, hopefully she'll survive and we'll see her take part in the action and interact more with other characters during the flashforward period.

[quote author=Griffith No More!]
Yeah, but you can guess that anyone's dad is a "bad guy" on this show and you'll be right, it still doesn't mean they'll go through with one being the big boss (I'll actually be dissapointed if they don't introduce someone new, though I'm sure we're in for more twists, "Widmore's really the GOOD GUY!"). It was just made clear last week that it was Widmore, as opposed to Sun's evil father or something (unless he's part of Widmore's league of bad dad's too). Seriously, this show has more father issues than Steven Spielberg's entire catalogue.[/quote]

I'm interested what Abbadon's role in all this is in relation to Widmore, I also have a feeling that there is an evil supernatural force at work which is in conflict with Jacob.

 

[Aazealh]

Re: Lost Season 4

He had to finish Ana off once he knew she was on to him, of course he's going to come off as a bit sinister in her/our eyes at that point.

Well if he was sinister in the protagonists' and the viewers' point of view, I'm going to just label him so and not change my mind just because I'm shown a smiling face. We could see Ethan rescuing some kids from a shark in the future and he'd still be creepy and murderous.

He knew she as "bad" and that she had to go, yet he had feelings for her. But he also had to finish the mission so that he could return to Juliet. It couldn't have been easy for him. His character is consistent whether you think he's likable or not.

Your own sentence isn't even consistent. I'm afraid it's beyond rationalizing.

Well, the Dharma folks seems to be been offed effectively that way.

The gas was released locally and not from far away. In one case it was a well planned trap targeting a precise location, in the other it's an accident that's supposed to cover all the island from a single location. It's pretty far-fetched.

Of course, the people in the Swan survived. Now that I think about it, how the hell did Kelvin Inman get to the Island in the late 90's when Ben was in control of the Island at that point?

Good luck on that one.

Themselves? Miles? Ben? Lots of reasons.

They had suits, they didn't need to do anything other than wear them to survive. And I doubt they care much about Miles (or about as much as he cares for them, meaning not at all). As for Ben, that would have conveniently killed him. Maybe they want him alive, but that's not "lots of reasons", and it's still a lot of trouble compared to the risks they took doing it.

That's pretty much the reasons I like her too, plus she hasn't had any pointless flashbacks. The thing that bugs me is how she's not been upset about Charlie since Hurley brought her the news though.

Yeah, didn't grieve him long, that's for sure. Same for Hurley, his best buddy's dead but he's cool with mindlessly playing games with Sawyer, no problem.

I'm interested what Abbadon's role in all this is in relation to Widmore, I also have a feeling that there is an evil supernatural force at work which is in conflict with Jacob.

He's probably going to bring forth a tempest of locusts to attack the island. Seriously, I see him as Widmore's second in command at best.

 

[A.C]

Re: Lost Season 4

I just rewatched Goodwin's death scene from THE OTHER 48 DAYS and I found his mannerism to be pleasantly consistent and not at all sinister. He doesn't even try to kill Ana, they are talking and she attacks him. Watch it, it's all really consistent with these newer flashbacks. I'm transcribing the dialogue here:

ANA: Can I ask you something?

GOODWIN: Sure Ana.

ANA: When you ran outta the jungle, the day of the crash, how did you find Bernard up in the tree?

GOODWIN: I heard him shouting from the beach.

ANA: From the beach?

GOODWIN: Why are you asking me about that Ana?

ANA: Did he see you out there? Is that why you pretended to be one of us?

[Goodwin looks like he's thinking, doesn't know what to say.]

ANA: You ran out of the jungle ten minutes after the crash, you weren't wet, you were never even in the ocean.

[Goodwin look like he's thinking "damn I've fucked it up" and begins slowly shaking his head. He can't look Ana in the eyes, he looks down.]

ANA: Where are they? You're friends?

[Goodwin looks at her, trying to get it together, probably thinking it's best to drop the act.]

ANA: Nathan? What did you-

GOODWIN: (Interupts) If you had cut off his finger and he still told you he was on the plane, I think maybe you would have started to believe you had the wrong guy.

ANA: Did you kill him?

GOODWIN: Nathan was not a good person. (He says this with conviction. They probably got his life on file and was disgusted at what they had found.)

GOODWIN: That's why he wasn't on the list.

[Goodwin looks at Ana, it's not a sinister look. It's more like he's observing her reaction. Ana has a blank expressionless look.]

ANA: What about the kids? Did you kill them too?

GOODWIN: Children are fine. (He says this with a "take my word for it" delivery.)

[Ana looks down, probably trying to get her emotions together.]

GOODWIN: (Smiles) They're better off now.

[Ana-Lucia looks pissed for a few seconds and then jumps on him with the knife. A short fight ensues, quickly resulting in Goodwin's death.]

 

[Walter]

Re: Lost Season 4

Got a request for ya. Could you transcribe the part where our knight in shining armor here grabs the guy's neck by surprise and breaks it? Thanks in advance!