Re: Lost Season 4
Yeah, well this is still pretty much what I said. Aaron was sick and they went to that bunker to get the serum. And Rousseau related his problem to what happened to the people she came on the island with at some point, which Claire believed. It's mentioned more than once, too. For example Kelvin told Desmond about it, and they both used it for a while. This is the same stuff Ethan gave Claire.
Sounds dodgy to me. See, the problem is that Kelvin and Desmond used the same vaccine (CR 4-81516-23 42), and it's clearly not something Juliet made. Furthermore, Ethan repeatedly states that there's not enough of it for both Claire and the baby, and he injects it directly into her womb, in the way people inject products to foetuses when they have a problem. That's not something he'd do if he wanted to inject it to Claire. And then, there's the fact that a "vaccine" can prevent a disease by making a system immune to a virus, but that doesn't really fit the description Juliet makes of the problem the island causes with pregnant women to me. It fits the mysterious sickness more. Then again, the fact an injection is required every nine days seems weird for a vaccine, too.
Wait, Dharma vaccine? Isn't it supposed to be Juliet's stuff? How can it be from Dharma then? =) And really, all this means is that Claire could give birth and not the other women. The fact she got pregnant outside the island only implies that ALL women that do so will live, regardless of using Juliet's useless antidote or not. Basically, Claire's case doesn't mean anything in regard to Juliet's serum, which I doubt was actually her serum at all considering it's from Dharma. It only proves that getting pregnant outside the island will allow you to give birth on it without problems. Besises, in the same episode she tells Claire that she's getting withdrawal from it, Ben reveals she was implanted with something to fake the effect and get people to trust Juliet. Hehe, despite your good will to rationalize everything, the holes and contradictions are just too big to be overlooked.
Didn't she rather say that her people got it after their first visit to the Black Rock, and that the Others are the "carriers"? That's what I remember. The problem being that she apparently never saw anyone before Sayid & friends... Then suddenly she saw the Others and had no problem with that. Whatever, but anyway, remember how what she called the Others were the strange whispers in the woods? Another thing left unexplained ever since. Could be a manifestation of Jacob or the smoke monster or yet another mysterious thing. Ah, and she also said that they got the disease two months after arriving, so I'm going to rule out any connection to Desmond's problem.
Yeah, I remember that I also would like to learn more about it.
I'm pretty sure it'll be explained by the presence of some radioactive material on the freighter later on, that those two had been in contact with.
You speak as if what you're saying had any solid basis, when it's not the case. An outright paradox? Big enough? Who gets to define this? Because a change is small doesn't mean it isn't a change. And as long as there's a paradox it's going to alter the present anyway. The producers don't want things to be nonsensical, but that doesn't automatically mean they can insert time travelling without it having any consequence on the rest save for the episodes concerned.
Lots of rationalizing that doesn't really work, IMO. The selective memory loss thing is the most plausible, but it's still sounds far-fetched. Who cares if they won't create alternate dimensions like in Back to the Future? That doesn't change anything.
But that doesn't matter, it's still a timeloop in the end from that point on. Same with how Desmond tells Penny he'll call at the time he will because he already knows when he'll have to do it to survive. "Course-correction" doesn't change the fact that things are modified. Doing stories like these is just asking for plot holes and contradictions as long as a character in the past gains knowledge of anything from the future.
That's the most logical explanation, I guess they could have attacked the Black Rock and then it got caught in a storm and ended up on the island. Something like that.
A.C said:I checked the episode (Maternity Leave) to be sure. Rousseau doesn't actually say anything about a vaccine, Claire notice that Aaron has a fever and Rousseau shows up and says "He's infected, isn't he? Your child is sick." Claire tells her to get away and Rousseau responds "You don't remember, do you?"
Yeah, well this is still pretty much what I said. Aaron was sick and they went to that bunker to get the serum. And Rousseau related his problem to what happened to the people she came on the island with at some point, which Claire believed. It's mentioned more than once, too. For example Kelvin told Desmond about it, and they both used it for a while. This is the same stuff Ethan gave Claire.
A.C said:Then the flashes appear when Ethan says "It's a vaccine, we don't want him to get sick." (of course this is a lie and the vaccine is really one for Claire that Juliet made.)
Sounds dodgy to me. See, the problem is that Kelvin and Desmond used the same vaccine (CR 4-81516-23 42), and it's clearly not something Juliet made. Furthermore, Ethan repeatedly states that there's not enough of it for both Claire and the baby, and he injects it directly into her womb, in the way people inject products to foetuses when they have a problem. That's not something he'd do if he wanted to inject it to Claire. And then, there's the fact that a "vaccine" can prevent a disease by making a system immune to a virus, but that doesn't really fit the description Juliet makes of the problem the island causes with pregnant women to me. It fits the mysterious sickness more. Then again, the fact an injection is required every nine days seems weird for a vaccine, too.
A.C said:Well it never worked before Claire's case since those women got pregnant on the island while Claire got pregnant pre-island. It makes sense that the vaccine for Claire is different from the other Dharma vaccine in the hatch so I don't think it was a retcon.
Wait, Dharma vaccine? Isn't it supposed to be Juliet's stuff? How can it be from Dharma then? =) And really, all this means is that Claire could give birth and not the other women. The fact she got pregnant outside the island only implies that ALL women that do so will live, regardless of using Juliet's useless antidote or not. Basically, Claire's case doesn't mean anything in regard to Juliet's serum, which I doubt was actually her serum at all considering it's from Dharma. It only proves that getting pregnant outside the island will allow you to give birth on it without problems. Besises, in the same episode she tells Claire that she's getting withdrawal from it, Ben reveals she was implanted with something to fake the effect and get people to trust Juliet. Hehe, despite your good will to rationalize everything, the holes and contradictions are just too big to be overlooked.
A.C said:Anyway, Rousseau's original description for "the sickness" in season one is interesting. Rousseau seem to imply that the Others brought "it" back from The Black Rock.
Didn't she rather say that her people got it after their first visit to the Black Rock, and that the Others are the "carriers"? That's what I remember. The problem being that she apparently never saw anyone before Sayid & friends... Then suddenly she saw the Others and had no problem with that. Whatever, but anyway, remember how what she called the Others were the strange whispers in the woods? Another thing left unexplained ever since. Could be a manifestation of Jacob or the smoke monster or yet another mysterious thing. Ah, and she also said that they got the disease two months after arriving, so I'm going to rule out any connection to Desmond's problem.
A.C said:She's talking in a very cryptic and confusing way but when Rousseau and Sayid are pointing their rifles at eachother Danielle says that she took away the mechanism on Sayid's rifle and that "Robert didn't notice either" when she shot him (can't wait to see this stuff in a flashback!)
Sayid asks why and Danielle says that he got "sick" and "took them one by one". Hmm. I'm also curious why Danielle's "research expedition" was carrying guns. Sayid asks this but Danielle never gives an answer.
Yeah, I remember that I also would like to learn more about it.
A.C said:Yes, but it seemed like Desmond suffered the "side effects" because he had been exposed to electromagnetism, that was Faraday's theory anyway. If anyone can suffer these side-effects regardless of having had future visions or not then how could Danielle, the 815ers, Juliet (the sub), Naomi, and the helicopter go in without any side effects? Not to mention Frank and Sayid who were with Desmond on the same baring?
I'm pretty sure it'll be explained by the presence of some radioactive material on the freighter later on, that those two had been in contact with.
A.C said:It wasn't that much time fuckery in this episode, nothing that would create an outright paradox big enough to alter the present.
You speak as if what you're saying had any solid basis, when it's not the case. An outright paradox? Big enough? Who gets to define this? Because a change is small doesn't mean it isn't a change. And as long as there's a paradox it's going to alter the present anyway. The producers don't want things to be nonsensical, but that doesn't automatically mean they can insert time travelling without it having any consequence on the rest save for the episodes concerned.
A.C said:Desmond's past self recieved knowledge but it only helped to reinforce course-correction. There's also the possibility that entering the island force field (or whatever it is) causes memory loss. Faraday certainly seemed to have a problem with his memory last episode with the cards. And Penelope did remember that Desmond would call her, but since she didn't know why or might not even have believed it it doesn't change the possibility that she would still show up at the stadium etc... Basically, the consciousness in the past could change, but it will not alter the future state of the world in such a way that suddenly Desmond will find himself in an alternate 2004 like Heroes or Back to the Future part 2. (They even used those examples.) So while such a possibility *could* be explored with this concept if they wanted to, they will not actually go ahead and create alternate dimensions in the show. Mrs. Hawkings rules is law.
Lots of rationalizing that doesn't really work, IMO. The selective memory loss thing is the most plausible, but it's still sounds far-fetched. Who cares if they won't create alternate dimensions like in Back to the Future? That doesn't change anything.
A.C said:To use this as an example, the likely scenario is that Faraday would soon be discovering those numbers and he gives them to Desmond so he will confirm it a bit earlier, and this could just be a week before Faraday actually gets the numbers right anyway (the fact that Desmond's numbers makes sense to him in the past confirms that he was onto them in the first place) thus nothing is really altered.
But that doesn't matter, it's still a timeloop in the end from that point on. Same with how Desmond tells Penny he'll call at the time he will because he already knows when he'll have to do it to survive. "Course-correction" doesn't change the fact that things are modified. Doing stories like these is just asking for plot holes and contradictions as long as a character in the past gains knowledge of anything from the future.
A.C said:Yeah that was strange. How could the logbok (it looked like a logbook) end up in the hands of pirates and the actual ship on the island? Does this mean pirates attacked the ship and took the log before it disappeared?
That's the most logical explanation, I guess they could have attacked the Black Rock and then it got caught in a storm and ended up on the island. Something like that.