Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]

[Tama]

Watched it recently and for me it's on the level of the first film; more or less a disappointment. I feel like if someone who wasn't aware of Berserk came into these films without prior knowledge, they wouldn't care for it that much. I'm also surprised at how long they extended the ball scene, yet cut out the bonfire of dreams sequence or even the scene where Guts talks with Judo and Carcus at the bar prior to leaving. I always thought that conversation held some important dialogue, and in the movie he ends up leaving without really talking to anyone. Also I really hate the slow motion effects they use for the past memories. I admit the flashback with a younger Casca was better then the Gambino one, but is it really necessary to film it this way, or does it just save them money? Anyway I'm not holding my breath for the third movie, but I will hope for the best.

[BerserkFL]

The 100 man battle was pretty enjoyable. It was best in the manga and the worst in the old anime, but the graphics here were great and the music was very memorable. While it's true he didn't do any kind of skilled swordplay and simply swung it around like a madman I thought that was pretty cool cause he just went straight beserker mode.

Truth is you could tear this film up and diss the hell out of it when you compare it to the manga and the original anime but why? We already have the best version of the story with the manga and Studio 4C was limited to MUCH less running time so I simply just take it for what it is. When you start comparing it to the manga or even the original anime it's easy to find faults. I rather just not make the comparison personally.

[frankencowx]

Truth is you could tear this film up and diss the hell out of it when you compare it to the manga and the original anime but why? We already have the best version of the story with the manga and Studio 4C was limited to MUCH less running time so I simply just take it for what it is. When you start comparing it to the manga or even the original anime it's easy to find faults. I rather just not make the comparison personally.

So we shouldn't have standards and just take everything as is?? What a bunch of doo.

[Walter]

Truth is you could tear this film up and diss the hell out of it when you compare it to the manga and the original anime but why?

Because we'd like the characters and story to be faithfully represented and not become glorified fan-fiction...? Is that an unreasonable request? The Guts in this movie isn't Guts. The Griffith in this movie certainly isn't Griffith. That's the core of what a lot of us are criticizing about this adaptation.

[Aazealh]

the graphics here were great

I think that's highly debatable. What was great? The animation? The 3D models? Personally I wasn't impressed.

the music was very memorable.

For what it's worth, I don't remember it. I remember the TV series' OST though, and believe me I don't watch it very often.

While it's true he didn't do any kind of skilled swordplay and simply swung it around like a madman I thought that was pretty cool cause he just went straight beserker mode.

But you know that it could have been intense and featured skilled swordplay. All they had to do was follow what's in the manga.

Truth is you could tear this film up and diss the hell out of it when you compare it to the manga and the original anime but why? We already have the best version of the story with the manga and Studio 4C was limited to MUCH less running time so I simply just take it for what it is. When you start comparing it to the manga or even the original anime it's easy to find faults. I rather just not make the comparison personally.

And why not? Why not be critical towards it? We paid for it, right? And more generally, as fans, we have a right to gauge the quality of what we're offered, don't we? Studio 4°C chose to adapt the Golden Age arc in that format. They came up with it, no one imposed it on them. They had other choices. And that's the original sin, because it's patently obvious that it just can't fit. We knew it right from the start, and they should have as well. It's their job and they're paid for it. If the average guy messes up at work, he gets into trouble. Why would these guys be above scrutiny?

All I care about is the final product myself. And I don't find it good. I'm certainly not going to lie to myself just because it's painful to admit that these movies suck.

[IncantatioN]

It's a bit weird all jokes aside ... in the sense, you encourage someone to post what they liked about it so it can be played down upon. I think Walter made a post about having positive reviewers talk about the movie and it's all an opinion in the end. Whether people liked the music or hated the CG or liked the way Guts jumped 20 feet in the air or whether Griffith was not Griffith, etc. - it's all relative. The Avengers didn't get a 100% RT rating even though the general consensus liked it, so if there are a few people who liked movie 2, so what. I know a few people who've expressed that they fell out of Berserk because of the last arc in the manga citing how it wasn't as engaging or felt too short, etc. and you can't argue with a point of view. A difference of opinion shouldn't be shot down. No adaptation is going to top the manga. Case in point - Akira is one of the best animated movies out there and purists hate the movie. It is fair to want Studio 4C to adapt this to the tee and loathe the end result, much like it is to like it. I haven't watched the 2nd movie yet and I can't wait to experience it. I love Aazealh's review, I tried to avoid reviews on here (browse cursorily to see who's watched it without reading the gist) but I couldn't resist his usual enchanting precise wordplay.

[Aazealh]

Whether people liked the music or hated the CG or liked the way Guts jumped 20 feet in the air or whether Griffith was not Griffith, etc. - it's all relative.

BerserkFL specifically posted to say that he didn't think people should criticize the movie by comparing it to the manga or even the old TV series. He wasn't simply giving his opinion but commenting on others'. That invited answers from other members.

Case in point - Akira is one of the best animated movies out there and purists hate the movie.

That's a very different case, and as a fan of Akira I can tell you I don't hate the movie, even though story-wise I think it's clearly inferior to the manga. But again, it's a very different case. Don't mix everything up.

[BerserkFL]

Whoa calm down everyone. Maybe I can say good things about this adaptation because I went into it with realistic expectations. As soon as it was confirmed Studio 4C would try to cram THAT much story into 3 films I did a few Captain Picard facepalms, cursed the project for months, hugged my Manga's, then after it all sank in I accepted what it would be. Had they announced it would be another long series meant to be a true adaptation of the Manga I would have been MUCH more critical.

It is what it is guys. I tried to get my younger cousins into the older anime and they just couldn't get past how crappy it looked. They certainly aren't the types to read Manga. But so far they have really liked the Golden Arc movies. So that's something right?

Haters gonna hate but that 100 man battle was very entertaining to watch. Plus the siege of Doldrey was very good too. Lack of Zodd......lack of Guts sword breaking.....lack of fairy medicine......lack of Bonfire of Dreams.....do you see what I'm doing here? Every cut falls back onto another cut. At which point do you accept 4C simply wasn't going to a very faithful adaptation? They had to pick and choose what they wanted to be good. Zodd scene, 100 man battle, Doldrey, Griffith getting tortured.

Maybe I am just too forgiving, but like I said before I knew they weren't going to make something even remotely close to the manga with 3 films clocking in at less than an hour and half each. LOL to the max actually. Trying to adapt a story THAT rich and full in that amount of time? Nah, no way that would ever live up to any of our standards. My expectations were set so low that the few things they did do "right" (relative term) I enjoyed very much since I didn't expect to enjoy anything.

[Griffith]

Whoa calm down everyone. Maybe I can say good things about this adaptation because I went into it with realistic expectations. As soon as it was confirmed Studio 4C would try to cram THAT much story into 3 films I did a few Captain Picard facepalms, cursed the project for months, hugged my Manga's, then after it all sank in I accepted what it would be. Had they announced it would be another long series meant to be a true adaptation of the Manga I would have been MUCH more critical.

That's essentially what they did announce and trumpet, a long term "saga" project more faithful to the manga. Looks like they're not the only ones failing to live up to their end of the bargain though. Also, I'm not sure what difference it makes. If they'd announced they intended on doing a shitty job would we now have to applaud them for succeeding? Bad is bad, and low aims or expectations aren't mitigating circumstances, let alone exonerating ones. I don't have a problem with people liking it for what it is, as Direct DK effectively argued, but you're basically advocating for our non-opinion or the forfeiture of critical thinking. Like we're in the wrong simply for recognizing the poor quality of the product. In a nutshell: if we just go in willing to accept anything, it's really not so bad. Yeah... No thanks.

I tried to get my younger cousins into the older anime and they just couldn't get past how crappy it looked. They certainly aren't the types to read Manga. But so far they have really liked the Golden Arc movies. So that's something right?

Great, I'm glad Berserk was shit all over with an awful adaptation that's worthless to me so your adolescent cousins that don't give a shit could have some bad anime to watch. It was all worth it! Definitely my hope for a new anime from the start, "Gee, I hope they make something BerserkFL's cousins will like!" That is NOT something, dude.

Maybe I am just too forgiving

I'd argue there's nothing to forgive when you've forfeited the right to be upset about anything. That's the problem. It's not forgiveness, it's more like critical abstinence.

Nah, no way that would ever live up to any of our standards.

Our standards? Who exactly are you throwing yourself in with? Don't equate your forsaking of standards to those willing to call a spade a spade. Look, everyone wanted to like these movies, it's just that some of us wanted them to be good as a condition (crazy, I know). So, their shittiness is embarrassing to all and naturally some don't want to admit how bad they are, it's more fun to find silver linings, which leads to all this rationalizing, circular reasoning, and hilarious exercises in positivity. Fine, I'll play along; it's good for what it is! A statement that means absolutely nothing, which is about the nicest thing anyone can say about these movies. Someday I'm going to write a psych paper on this fandroid syndrome: Strange Love: Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Berserk Saga Project. I guess I could just leave the word "bomb" intact as well.

So, enjoy it for "what it is," but don't come in here and say it's above critique, particularly for an inherently absurd and circular reason as it's SO BAD it's silly to criticize. I don't know about you, but that's not the standard I want Berserk or its related properties held to.

[RyoGTO]

It's so bad, it's good?

[Wyrm]

Well, I for one enjoyed the first movie although I can understand how bigger fans than I might strongly dislike it.
To be honest, I prefer that something bad is done with <insert my favourite franchise> than nothing at all. My reasoning is that if it's at least moderately successful it might lead to other productions with more quality. Of course a work can be so bad that it kills an entire franchise altogether but I don't remember any examples...

All in all it's similar to "Say good or bad things about me, i don't care. But talk about me, goddammit!"

Not justifiying the movie or saying that you shouldn't criticize it, far from it. Just saying that there's nothing wrong in seeing the silver lining and hope that 1 bad adaptation may lead to a better one.

[BerserkMJM]

I'd still like to see The Black Swordsman done. Though, even if it's successful and they do everything right going forward, their adaptation of the series will feel incomplete as this trilogy will still be considered part of it. So unless they plan to revisit and make good on this part of the story sometime in the future, they've already left a bad mark on the whole thing.

[Hanma_Baki]

^True. I´ve been pondering on that too and its unfortunate...but...I was going to say something on a more positive note but nothing comes to mind

Yo, Aaz, that is the mother of all reviews Your attention to detail is as mesmerising as ever. Made for an epic lunch break read, thanks for sharing. I thought I was picky and critical but much of the more in-depth issues you mention I never even noticed, then again I wasnt really looking or comparing to the manga on that level. And its nice that you´re drawing parallels to the manga on a regular basis like that, and describing each version, sorry I know Im dick riding here but it gives a sense of professionalism/sophistication having you around

EDIT: Not just Aaz though, I like all you guys´ reviews

[Jaze1618]

Someday I'm going to write a psych paper on this fandroid syndrome: Strange Love: Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Berserk Saga Project. I guess I could just leave the word "bomb" intact as well.

FUNNNY!!!  

[frankencowx]

I think Griffith's sig pretty much sums up what Studio 4°C is doing to Berserk.

[BerserkFL]

That's essentially what they did announce and trumpet, a long term "saga" project more faithful to the manga. Looks like they're not the only ones failing to live up to their end of the bargain though. Also, I'm not sure what difference it makes. If they'd announced they intended on doing a shitty job would we now have to applaud them for succeeding? Bad is bad, and low aims or expectations aren't mitigating circumstances, let alone exonerating ones. I don't have a problem with people liking it for what it is, as Direct DK effectively argued, but you're basically advocating for our non-opinion or the forfeiture of critical thinking. Like we're in the wrong simply for recognizing the poor quality of the product. In a nutshell: if we just go in willing to accept anything, it's really not so bad. Yeah... No thanks.

Great, I'm glad Berserk was shit all over with an awful adaptation that's worthless to me so your adolescent cousins that don't give a shit could have some bad anime to watch. It was all worth it! Definitely my hope for a new anime from the start, "Gee, I hope they make something BerserkFL's cousins will like!" That is NOT something, dude.

I'd argue there's nothing to forgive when you've forfeited the right to be upset about anything. That's the problem. It's not forgiveness, it's more like critical abstinence.

Our standards? Who exactly are you throwing yourself in with? Don't equate your forsaking of standards to those willing to call a spade a spade. Look, everyone wanted to like these movies, it's just that some of us wanted them to be good as a condition (crazy, I know). So, their shittiness is embarrassing to all and naturally some don't want to admit how bad they are, it's more fun to find silver linings, which leads to all this rationalizing, circular reasoning, and hilarious exercises in positivity. Fine, I'll play along; it's good for what it is! A statement that means absolutely nothing, which is about the nicest thing anyone can say about these movies. Someday I'm going to write a psych paper on this fandroid syndrome: Strange Love: Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Berserk Saga Project. I guess I could just leave word "bomb" intact as well.

So, enjoy it for "what it is," but don't come in here and say it's above critique, particularly for an inherently absurd and circular reason as it's SO BAD it's silly to criticize. I don't know about you, but that's not the standard I want Berserk or its related properties held to.

Dude anime has sucked for so long now what did you expect? Why did you expect it to be good? What indication did you have that it would be? Studio 4C produce something really great in the past I'm not aware of?

It's just a movie so take it down a notch. I watched it like a tech demo showcasing some memorable scenes from the Berserk manga and that's all. There really was no reason to ever get excited or to expect something of great quality. I sure as hell never hoped for much. I have no desire to expel energy on hatin on these films. If I went down that road I'd sound a lot like you and my blood pressure would go up. I've ranted plenty about movies that sucked and have a few long winded posts over at IMDB. But those movies didn't have an amazing Manga to fall back on or even a pretty enjoyable old anime. My Berserk "fix" is filled already, I sure as hell never expected Studio 4C to come even close. Not close at all. Now the movies here and COMPARED to the manga it is pure garbage but why exert energy pointing out what everyone already knows?

If you're a Berserk fan you have to watch it. You can either go into with one attitude and just enjoy what you can or you can go into it where you chunk your dinner tray at the TV.

I made my choice.

Aside from the story one thing I will defend is the way it looks. Personally I thought the tech was pretty cool and looks great in HD. Not really seeing the comparison to cutscenes from a video game.

[jackson_hurley]

I watched it like a tech demo showcasing some memorable scenes from the Berserk manga and that's all.

Except in that case those "memorable scenes" are far (imo) from being memorable in the first two films. And those scenes in the movies that should be memorable got all messed up rending them (again imo) not so memorable, at all...

[Walter]

There really was no reason to ever get excited or to expect something of great quality.

Well, in this regard you're preaching to the choir. Go talk to those "excellent" voters, or those that voted "AMAZING. Loved every second!" in the first movie thread. That being said, debunking something that was initially marketed as a faithful adaptation is totally within reason. I think some fans are simply offput by the notion that we take Berserk very seriously. It's something we care about deeply. So seeing it turned into shit isn't comfortable.

Now the movies here and COMPARED to the manga it is pure garbage but why exert energy pointing out what everyone already knows?

If that's all you got out of Aazealh's post, then you really missed the point. He's pointing out why it's shit on its own grounds, not simply in comparison to the manga.

If you're a Berserk fan you have to watch it.

Why?

Anyway, the takeaway I'm getting here is that you enjoyed it even though you acknowledge that it was complete shit. How would you rate the movie then? This is, afterall the review thread. Not the whine about others reviews thread.

[Hanma_Baki]

I guess ultimately both arguments are pretty valid, this though...

It's just a movie so take it down a notch.

No, its not just a movie. Its (supposed to be) a Berserk movie. That should be enough as an argument. It means it should EARN the title. Berserk is pretty much the best story ever written/visualized to me, and to many others I'm sure. If there is an adaptation to be made from "pretty much the best story ever written/visualized" things just shouldn't be allowed to go wrong. To make drastic changes to "pretty much the best story ever written/visualized" and then calling it the same thing almost feels like a crime to me. I also don't get your philosophy about bad films that aren't based on good story to begin with are worth bitching about whereas movies that are based on a good story aren't

Im not saying, now lets hate and be depressed about it for an eternity, but please don't tell others to "take it down a notch" and especially that its "just a movie" cause for some people, including myself, its pretty serious stuff, we feel passionately and thus naturally protective about this work of art.

[Griffith]

It's so bad, it's good?

Yeah, these movies are the Commando of the Berserk franchise. Only watch them to LET OFF SOME STEAM!

Of course a work can be so bad that it kills an entire franchise altogether but I don't remember any examples...

That's certainly part of my bitterness. Berserk's likely not going to get another adaptation, this was it's last shot for the the kind of recognition you were talking about, so it's a shame that it was wasted on this. Considering the cult popularity of the crappy TV series, a faithful and halfway decent attempt could have been something special, but this was half-assed from the start.

Not justifiying the movie or saying that you shouldn't criticize it, far from it. Just saying that there's nothing wrong in seeing the silver lining and hope that 1 bad adaptation may lead to a better one.

A far more reasonable positive position. On that note, there's more reason to hope for better adaptations in the future is if more people ask for one. If people squawk loud enough, hopefully Studio 4C hears it. Unfortunately, our valid complaints may be getting lost in the white noise of, "SHHHHH, DON'T SAY MEAN THINGS ABOUT TEH MOVIES GUYZ!!" We should have WWII-style propaganda posters, like, "Loose lips sink ships." =)

I'd still like to see The Black Swordsman done. Though, even if it's successful and they do everything right going forward, their adaptation of the series will feel incomplete as this trilogy will still be considered part of it. So unless they plan to revisit and make good on this part of the story sometime in the future, they've already left a bad mark on the whole thing.

Oh God no, I hope nobody ever touches Golden Age again (twice has been more than enough). If they do cover any Black Swordsman material, I hope they learn from their mistakes and from fan reaction (hint: not blind acceptance) and do a better job. If we could still get a decent Black Swordsman adaptation out of this, well... that's more than I can hope for honestly. Now I'm just torturing myself again. BerserkFL was right!

Dude anime has sucked for so long now what did you expect? Why did you expect it to be good? What indication did you have that it would be? Studio 4C produce something really great in the past I'm not aware of?

What's your point though? Like I said, bad is bad. It doesn't make a difference if we saw it coming (we did, and were sounding the alarm bells, and meeting such resistance, early). That doesn't mean we shouldn't dislike it for being bad, or more strangely you seem to be arguing that we should just accept it because of that. I don't even understand your motivation, if you're so relaxed about it why bother arguing with someone that obviously does care? It's like you just decided you don't like how seriously we take Berserk and are going to give us a piece of your mind, post some relaxed platitudes, set us straight and tell us to chill out. Well great, welcome to the skullknight.net: the definitive source for all things Berserk message board. You can relax now, and for the record my blood pressure is surprisingly low (seriously, I'm surprised by this =).

why exert energy pointing out what everyone already knows?

Apparently, everyone doesn't know it, or is in denial, and you're not helping. As for why, simple honesty is a fine enough reason, but if you want something more high minded it's the only way for fans to effect change, besides voting with their wallets. In the best case scenario a negative reception could cause Studio 4C to change their approach, but even if that's a long shot, it's better than just saying nothing. WWII-style propaganda slogan: Don't be a jerk, speak up for Berserk!

I've ranted plenty about movies that sucked and have a few long winded posts over at IMDB.

Ok, now it makes all sense. Nevermind!

[SuperVegetto]

You should see comments in youtube in various videos such as Aria for example. People who complain get bashed and if the criticizer of the movie says something like: " It didn't have assassination, bonfire of dreams, the talk in the bar " the reply would be: " SO this movie is bad because they didn't put the scenes that YOU wanted to see? and other stupidities" (even though those scenes are important in Berserk)"
Then they use "it's your preference" arguments and compare it with food and things like that

See for yourself, criticizer: "As a hardcore Berserk fan this is something to bitch about. Since it also seals the chance of another Golden Age Arc reboot. I don't mind the CGI but they skipped WAAY too much. ESPECIALLY character dialogue and this is the one arc where character development and depth is really important. I hated the second movie even more than the first. Guts' connection to the rest of the Band of Hawk isn't there, Griffith doesn't have nearly as much depth and I wish these movies never came out."
One of the reactions:
"WAAAAHHHHH!! WAAAAAHHHH!! THIS ISNT THE MOVIE I WANTED SO IT SHOULD NOT EXIST!!! WAAAHHHHH!!" (13 thumbs up, 4 down)

Also I commented in support to the criticizer, all my comments got negative votes and won't show unless clicked. Lol some people are so insecure

[Griffith]

Frightening testimonials from the vortex of lost souls that is the youtube comments section; for those that will never be heard but are compelled to scream into the void nonetheless. This chilling window to the world outside our walls makes me suddenly very grateful for our higher caliber defenders of the films.

[BerserkFL]

Hmm, lot of passion in here. My passion is reserved for the manga.

As for Studio 4C and asking for better....LOL joking right? I might appear new here but I've been visiting this forum for god, has it been 5 years or longer now? Hell could be 10 years I've lost track. Fans demanding more Berserk is nothing new and for a long long long time we did beg for more. I mean how could we not considering where the anime series ended right?

Sorry to be a Debbie downer or negative but if after this VERY long wait they couldn't show the project more respect than 4C did I have zero faith it will ever happen. Maybe I accepted defeat 5+ years ago when my friends and I would have the freaking 300th conversation about needing more Berserk and "HOW COULD THEY END IT THAT WAY!?!!" It is the greatest story ever and absolute as perfect of a blueprint for an amazing anime adaptation as possible. Yet for all those years they ignored it then finally got with Studio 4C to give us a half assed (hell 1/10th ass) version?

I guess my hope just died completely so long ago I'm void of the passion or energy to hate on these new films.

[SuperVegetto]

Frightening testimonials from the vortex of lost souls that is the youtube comments section; for those that will never be heard but are compelled to scream into the void nonetheless. This chilling window to the world outside our walls makes me suddenly very grateful for our higher caliber defenders of the films.

  You should post more often in the Berserk anime section

[Jaze1618]

I watched it like a tech demo showcasing some memorable scenes from the Berserk manga and that's all.

Now here is something I can get on board with. Has a faithful adaptation, the trilogy has failed. And even has a movie adaptations the trilogy is pretty bad. But I suppose it does go above and beyond as a tech demo, but of course that's not what it was marketed as.