Author Topic: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook  (Read 5029 times)

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Offline Walter

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2018, 02:21:35 AM »
I'm reading through the whole guidebook now, which is just surreal. One thing I'm curious about: they spelled it as "Tudor" instead of their translation of "Chuder." I'm curious if they're correcting that error, or if they just didn't coordinate the translation with previous releases. But if they ARE correcting it, how could they still call him "Knight of Skeleton"?  :SK:

There are quite a few inconsistencies, which is sadly to be expected given that this is a real hodge-podge production by Dark Horse, with a ton of text and obviously not a ton of copy-editing. I was surprised to see that in the interview they used the correct phrase "incarnated" to refer to Femto, and but then on the character section, refers to it as "resurrected." Oh well!

And yeah, that Knight of Skeleton business: back when a few of the DH team used to post here, they shared that they had reached out to Hakusensha to clarify how they should translate Dokuro no Kishi, which turned out to be a mistake. Because the official verdict from up top was "Knight of Skeleton" likely because they had already dealt that shitty translation for statues/figures and wanted consistency abroad.  And because they had asked for clarity, they had to stick to it.

Online m

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2018, 09:25:20 AM »
Just finished the interview. A few typos aside, it's really fantastic. Everybody should read that thing.

To be honest I wasn’t planning on buying the guidebook, but your comment made me change my mind. :serpico: My copy should be arriving in a few days.

Offline Walter

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2018, 02:48:16 PM »
To be honest I wasn’t planning on buying the guidebook, but your comment made me change my mind. :serpico: My copy should be arriving in a few days.

I could trash-talk 75% of the guidebook for a full thread. Most of it is worthless for fans who have even a passing understanding of the basics of Berserk. As Aazealh said earlier in the thread, if they needed filler to surround the interview, an artbook would have been a much more welcome — and needed — addition to the Berserk merchandise lineup. But the interview itself is unassailable.

Speaking as someone who has spent a lot of time intuiting Miura's impressions in the absence of very little information, it's powerful (even surprisingly disconcerting!) to read Miura's straight talk on aspects of the whole series. The interview goes through each arc of the manga and captures insights from Miura on his intent and how he executed the ideas, sources of inspiration, and more.  Of course, there was a fan translated version of this interview circling around a year ago, but I didn't pay much attention to it, as I was waiting for a better translation. In comparing the two last night, I found this official one more coherent and natural-sounding, which is pretty important if you're trying to formulate the main man's opinions on things.

As usual, Miura comes across as modest to a fault, which requires some processing to get at the truth of the matter. This manner of speaking is natural for Japanese readers, who see a modest person and infer mastery and confidence (think "Yoda"). But in English, he sometimes comes across as self-deprecating and inconsiderate, given the pristine quality of the series he's created. For example, he talks at length about how he doesn't plan very far in advance, creates dialogue for scenes on-the-spot, etc., but then drops the bombshell that he created the idea of the Beast manifesting from the Berserk Armor back in Volume 16 — 10 volumes ahead of its debut. So much for not making explicit plans!


Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2018, 04:04:27 PM »
For example, he talks at length about how he doesn't plan very far in advance, creates dialogue for scenes on-the-spot, etc., but then drops the bombshell that he created the idea of the Beast manifesting from the Berserk Armor back in Volume 16 — 10 volumes ahead of its debut. So much for not making explicit plans!

Just for this kind of information it makes me want the guidebook more. I really need to clear up some space on my credit card. (Also have vol 39 to get in english and vol40 in japanese)

Fuck my financial situation of the moment.  :sad:

Offline Walter

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #54 on: November 05, 2018, 07:15:10 PM »
Hey remember a few weeks back when I was recommending this stupid book purely on the basis of the Miura interview? I rescind my endorsement.




Offline Aazealh

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #55 on: November 05, 2018, 07:19:58 PM »
Hey remember a few weeks back when I was recommending this stupid book purely on the basis of the Miura interview? I rescind my endorsement.

Ugh. Fucking gross. What kind of an idiot edited that garbage together, seriously? I get that they were out of ideas for what to fill that book with, but seriously? Who thought this was a good idea? No way Miura greenlit that shit.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #56 on: November 05, 2018, 07:22:46 PM »
Thats pretty much... sketch for the modern standards. Then again, am I surprised? Not really. Bad tastes for these page titles etc etc.  :sad:

Ugh. Fucking gross. What kind of an idiot edited that garbage together, seriously? I get that they were out of ideas for what to fill that book with, but seriously? Who thought this was a good idea? No way Miura greenlit that shit.

Exactly what I was saying to myself. I'm not one to make big scènes with this kinda stuff usually but this is getting ridiculous. A lot.

Might as well add "these chicks liked getting it hard from Wyald, look how they seem happy" Ugh

Offline Walter

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #57 on: November 05, 2018, 07:28:37 PM »
Thats pretty much... sketch for the modern standards. Then again, am I surprised? Not really. Bad tastes for these page titles etc etc.  :sad:

I think it's pretty surprising that the "official guidebook" is recontextualizing scenes of depravity as scenes of cuteness. Honestly, why isn't Casca's rape at the Eclipse in here? It's amazing it didn't make the cut, by these lecherous standards. What I didn't include here was a panel where the writer admires Erica's underwear. It's not fit to bear Berserk's name.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #58 on: November 05, 2018, 07:34:28 PM »
What I didn't include here was a panel where the writer admires Erica's underwear. It's not fit to bear Berserk's name.

Wow?!? Really?? That's sad. It's almost as if to them (editors or whoever is in charge of that book here) there is nothing deep in the story. And to focus on these littles bit of the story and proning how cute their underwear are or how cute they are while being rapped is sending some kind of fucked up weird message. It's very disppointing to see this kind of thing glorified when it's definitely not the point in the story.

Offline IncantatioN

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #59 on: November 05, 2018, 07:46:46 PM »
Unbelievable, this is appalling. I hadn't had a chance to open my copy yet. Unfuckingbelievable. I don't even know what to do with my copy anymore ...
At the end of time, a moment will come when just one man remains. Then the moment will pass. Man will be gone. There will be nothing to show that we were ever here... but stardust.

Offline Oburi

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2018, 09:03:36 AM »
At the very least they have condemned the acts of Gennon. That's where they draw the line. Pedophile? Deserves to die! But hey look at all those hotties that monster is raping and killing! How aggravating! WHY NOT ME?!

I only flipped through my book to get to the Miura interview, but when I came across that "Cutie" section all I had to see was the picture of the young slave boys to know that something was terribly wrong here. How does anyone familiar with the story not get a seriously creepy vibe from whoever is was ok with this?  Missing the point or not understanding context is one thing, but this is outright disturbing.

Ugh. Fucking gross. What kind of an idiot edited that garbage together, seriously?

Wyald.

Online ApostleBob

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2018, 03:22:06 PM »
Ugh! This is gross. This makes the series look like it's some type of porn thing. Was this really what they needed to do to sell more copies?

Offline Grail

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2018, 05:39:04 PM »
Yikes, thanks for the heads-up on that Walter. I still want to read the interview, but time and time again, Dark Horse manages to put their foot in it. They're clearly trying to appeal to the bottom of the barrel here.

Offline Walter

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2018, 05:50:40 PM »
Yikes, thanks for the heads-up on that Walter. I still want to read the interview, but time and time again, Dark Horse manages to put their foot in it. They're clearly trying to appeal to the bottom of the barrel here.

I don't necessarily think Dark Horse is to blame here; it's whoever originally wrote this trash at Hakusensha. As a result, that section is fundamentally offensive, faithfully translated or not.

I suppose one could question whether Dark Horse should have included it at all, but at that point it'd effectively be censorship, which would be a strange precedent to set when it comes to Berserk. At the end of the day, the guidebook absolutely shouldn't be touting any language like "official" when it clearly is at odds with the tone of the series.

Offline Grail

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2018, 07:11:36 PM »
I don't necessarily think Dark Horse is to blame here; it's whoever originally wrote this trash at Hakusensha. As a result, that section is fundamentally offensive, faithfully translated or not.

I suppose one could question whether Dark Horse should have included it at all, but at that point it'd effectively be censorship, which would be a strange precedent to set when it comes to Berserk. At the end of the day, the guidebook absolutely shouldn't be touting any language like "official" when it clearly is at odds with the tone of the series.

Dang, I must have missed this bit in the original version of the guidebook, my bad! If Dark Horse is just following Hakusensha's lead, then they're not to blame, though your point about the tone brings to mind how Dark Horse has misrepresented the series pretty outrageously in the past. Either way, it's a sad state of affairs when that sort of material is edited together to promote the series. Unfortunately, based on some stuff I've read and watched on the subject, it's just an indication of the type of media saturating the anime industry right now.

Offline Walter

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2018, 07:55:10 PM »
Dang, I must have missed this bit in the original version of the guidebook, my bad!

I don't blame you for skipping over it. Most of the book is full of useless shit. But I did verify it -- same text, same punctuation even ("!" , "!?")

Quote
Either way, it's a sad state of affairs when that sort of material is edited together to promote the series. Unfortunately, based on some stuff I've read and watched on the subject, it's just an indication of the type of media saturating the anime industry right now.

These pages seem like an attempt at humor, but it comes across as utterly gross, flippantly poking fun at otherwise depraved moments in the series. Tone-deaf at best, lecherous at worst.

Offline Crimson

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2018, 07:06:11 PM »
Upset to know what was branded as the "official" guidebook is really just lowbrow trash not even intended for the avid readers of the series.

I still want to read it, since skimming did show some cool little details (Conrad rarely only speaking unless it involves causality and the like), but overall, kinda disappointing.

I know DH isn't 100%, but I think they do a fairly good job. Way, way, way better than any free translations you could ever read, for damn sure. So I'm with Walter in that it wasn't even DH's fault for this; the Japanese pages are identical so they just translated it. Not sure where it originated from in Japan, but it clearly wasn't Miura. Which is why I really wish they hadn't used "official", because that was my first instinct to believe when seeing that word.

"Official"=from Miura. It made me think even that all those little remarks "the one at the top is especially cute" was from Miura himself. Slander, possibly?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2018, 08:07:35 PM »
I know DH isn't 100%, but I think they do a fairly good job.

It could be better, believe me.

Offline Crimson

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2018, 08:13:17 PM »
It could be better, believe me.

Ever since seeing you post a lot of critiques like this, I've been wanting to ask you for specific examples of your most hated problems. Since I too want to understand Berserk as close as it was intended, and the DH translations are the best I have, it would be nice to know what the most glaring problems are.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #69 on: November 29, 2018, 08:35:17 PM »
Ever since seeing you post a lot of critiques like this, I've been wanting to ask you for specific examples of your most hated problems. Since I too want to understand Berserk as close as it was intended, and the DH translations are the best I have, it would be nice to know what the most glaring problems are.

Eh, I've mentioned a bunch of them over the years, you can find them if you look through these threads. The one that most easily comes to mind is their awful non-translation of the Elf ruler's title. They published it as the mangled, meaningless "Hanafubuku King", whereas in English it means "Sovereign of the Flower Storm".

Since you mentioned you're up to volume 30 now, I encourage you to read our translations going forward. Try to compare them to DH's work and see if you can find some differences. It can be subtle stuff sometimes, but it adds up.

Offline Crimson

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #70 on: November 29, 2018, 08:59:05 PM »
Eh, I've mentioned a bunch of them over the years, you can find them if you look through these threads. The one that most easily comes to mind is their awful non-translation of the Elf ruler's title. They published it as the mangled, meaningless "Hanafubuku King", whereas in English it means "Sovereign of the Flower Storm".

Since you mentioned you're up to volume 30 now, I encourage you to read our translations going forward. Try to compare them to DH's work and see if you can find some differences. It can be subtle stuff sometimes, but it adds up.

While I certainly agree little details can add up (it's a big reason I'm not a fan of anime dubbing), I guess I personally don't get that riled for name mistakes. The King's name/title you mentioned, even "hawk" over "falcon" and the like. Those aren't story breaking details for me.
I started Berserk (up to volume 25) on free translations, where names would change in between chapters, and sometimes even during the same chapter, but I still never really got confused or annoyed. I could keep track.

While I get the appeal of that recommendation, that sounds appalling to actually try to read though. I think I tried that once with a single episode of an anime years back that had no subtitles and trying to read a page and watch was a nightmare.
Probably easier in book form, but hardly enjoyable.


I think instead I can just read the topics of said chapters, and if there was a big mistake, chances are someone would've mentioned it already, and then I can easily pinpoint anything noteworthy.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #71 on: November 29, 2018, 09:26:19 PM »
The King's name/title you mentioned, even "hawk" over "falcon" and the like. Those aren't story breaking details for me.

Well if that meets your standards, good for you. Maybe there are other mistakes that don't, maybe not. It's not for me to say.

chapters

To be exact, they're called episodes. In Berserk, chapters regroup many episodes under a common theme, and then there are that arcs englobe several chapters. You can find a detailed listing here.

While I get the appeal of that recommendation, that sounds appalling to actually try to read though.

Well you asked about translations, which is my I suggested that. What you do is up to you.

I think instead I can just read the topics of said chapters, and if there was a big mistake, chances are someone would've mentioned it already, and then I can easily pinpoint anything noteworthy.

We follow individual episodes as they're prepublished in Young Animal (a magazine), which is usually years before their release in the US compiled in a volume. These threads are mostly used to discuss the story and we don't revive them to comment on the official edition.

Offline Crimson

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2018, 09:48:04 PM »
Don't worry, I wasn't planning to necro any of them while scanning through. Just to pick out issues someone might have mentioned to get a clearer picture if there was a major translation error.

Offline Walter

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Re: Dark Horse Releasing Berserk Guidebook
« Reply #73 on: November 30, 2018, 02:40:23 PM »
While I certainly agree little details can add up (it's a big reason I'm not a fan of anime dubbing), I guess I personally don't get that riled for name mistakes. The King's name/title you mentioned, even "hawk" over "falcon" and the like. Those aren't story breaking details for me.

Hawk/Falcon, Hanafubuku, and "Knight of Skeleton" are just the most popular problems with Dark Horse's translations. There are also of course typos and text misplaced in the wrong word boxes, bad or just wrong episode titles, and in volume 39, they included line notes in a speech bubble. They even change the way characters talk (most recently with the boss pirate).

But more important than all of that, there are also subtle mistranslations that can create a bad understanding of important things. Check out this one from Volume 24:

Dark Horse -- Flora: A Beherit is a highly spiritual object that governs even human fate. Perhaps an even greater existence sent it to the physical world.
SKnet (Puella) -- Flora: A beherit is an object which a highly spiritual being -- or a being that is even something more, who controls the fate of humans -- has sent to this world

The difference here is pretty critical, because it's a key passage that alludes to the power of the Idea of Evil, not the power of a Beherit. If you stack all of these against each other, your left with the impression that you can't always trust the words you're reading, and that's a pretty bad feeling for something you paid money for.

Quote
I started Berserk (up to volume 25) on free translations, where names would change in between chapters, and sometimes even during the same chapter, but I still never really got confused or annoyed. I could keep track.

Well Dark Horse is supposed to be a professional translator, creating authoritative English translations, which people pay money for in order to get consistent, reliable work. So when they goof, it's of slightly more consequence than when xXSCANlordzXx gets something wrong.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 03:48:29 PM by Walter »